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Deadmeat5150
Nov 21, 2005

OLD MAN YELLS AT CLAN
There is a rarely used scumtactic called "Not Doing A Night Kill To gently caress With Town"

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Pander
Oct 9, 2007

Fear is the glue that holds society together. It's what makes people suppress their worst impulses. Fear is power.

And at the end of fear, oblivion.



MockingQuantum posted:

there is a part of me that thinks there's a chance there's some play or combination of roles that I'm not thinking of or not aware of due to inexperience, the question is whether I'm willing to vote for the player I think is a long shot on that chance
I'm kicking myself for consistently seeing his D2 play as too obviously scummy to be scum, it had to have earnest motivation behind it. I think we won if we voted him out before cloaca.

You are seeing what happens when a disengaged town player gets to endgame. No explanation for n4 needed, because vibes exist. I'd probably need two hands to count the number of games I lost in mylo/lylo because someone with a dozen game-focused posts had vibes and wouldn't listen to casework.

Deadmeat won't change his vote. Realistically the best case scenario is still a game over: we no-execute, go to tomorrow (because I protect you and wol targets you), play out another no-execute, at which point he kills you at night because I can't protect you, and then I get executed the next day. So I'd say unless deadmeat responds that he might ever change his vote or just vote me so we can get to post game chat and see what the hell happened.

Pander
Oct 9, 2007

Fear is the glue that holds society together. It's what makes people suppress their worst impulses. Fear is power.

And at the end of fear, oblivion.



Deadmeat5150 posted:

There is a rarely used scumtactic called "Not Doing A Night Kill To gently caress With Town"
I can't tell if this is sunk cost fallacy or if you're serious.

MockingQuantum
Jan 20, 2012



fwiw votefinder says there's no deadline set for this vote, so unless that was a mod oopsie I guess that means we're here til we vote someone out?

MockingQuantum
Jan 20, 2012



ok here is my last gasp attempt to effortpost this vote into happening--for me the whole pander vs wolo question boils down to day 4 when pander claimed doctor.

he said he visited infi N1, deadmeat N2, and clo N3 (and then later said he protected himself N4).

after pander claimed, wolo claimed watcher, and confirmed he saw pander visit infi and deadmeat on the first two nights.

so thinking theoretically, there are three possibilities here with pander and wolo:

- pander is scum, wolo is not. I can't think of a reason a town watcher would lie and say they saw another player visit people in the night, so I think in this hypothetical wolo would have had to see pander actually visit those first two nights. this would mean pander is a scum power role, maybe a roleblocker, maybe some weird game-specific role like one that steals numberwang prizes or whatever. roleblocker seems unlikely to me, because by N2 deadmeat had already implied that he knew SiV couldn't be scum, and by extension that he was in a confirmed masonry, which makes him a poor candidate for roleblocking (or tracking, if scum trackers are a thing). I'm sure there's some scenario I'm not thinking of here, but no matter what I think it's less likely than other options. N3 is a wash because clo was scum, so if pander is too then the claim he visited her doesn't mean much, though it is a risky claim if there is a watcher in the game and that visit didn't actually happen, I think?

-wolo is scum, pander is not. wolo's watcher claim can't be verified, and for that reason is an easy and low-risk claim to potentially get some town cred by backing up the doctor. risky if there's the chance there's a real watcher in the game, and also possible that it's true and he's a scum watcher. I can't see any reason why this isn't more likely than the scum pander scenario, speaking as a rank beginner, lol

-they're both scum and grandi is playing some very sophisticated joke on us, because I assume if it were 2/2 at this point that's effectively a scum win... unless we have a vigde possibility, I suppose? I don't wanna think about this one too hard because if it's the case I think we're screwed anyway, lol.

I guess one last possibility that we've all sort of discounted out of hand because it seems pretty unlikely--deadmeat is scum. I haven't considered this possibility because deadmeat said early on that he was "fairly sure" SiV wasn't scum, then later said there was "no way" SiV was scum, so the assumption was they were a confirmed masonry and deadmeat was cleared when SiV flipped town. the itty bitty fly in the ointment for me in this is that SiV never confirmed this--she never so much as acknowledged it, unless I've missed a post or two.

I would assume it's not SA metagame policy to claim confirmed masonries, since it seems to me they have some advantage in staying secret for at least a few days so they can share information or whatever, so I didn't ever want to push back against the claim, but it did always leave a shadow of doubt in my mind about it being a confirmed masonry. do games here typically have unconfirmed masonries from the beginning of the game? I've seen games with roles that let people create unconfirmed masonries, but I haven't seen any where there's a masonry right from the start that may or may not have scum players in it.

anyway, that's getting more into theorizing and away from what information is readily available. long story short vote wologar for president of being executed

MockingQuantum
Jan 20, 2012



I'll leave it there for now since it's friday night for me and I assume I'm the only one lame enough to be thinking about mafia right now

if I'm right about this day not having a deadline and it's up to us to vote somebody out, and it looks like deadmeat is not willing to switch votes, then we may be in a situation where I guess I might have to switch my vote so we can wrap the game up and we can all pretend I voted wologar for the purposes of determining if I'm a genius very lucky newbie or a complete ignoramus

Pander
Oct 9, 2007

Fear is the glue that holds society together. It's what makes people suppress their worst impulses. Fear is power.

And at the end of fear, oblivion.



Here's a thought, let's do numberwang. If quantum or deadmeat win, it might be something that can break the stalemate, like a rolecop or cop. I can protect whoever gets it.

MockingQuantum
Jan 20, 2012



alright why not

##numberwang √72

I guess it could backfire if scum gets it but we're stuck as is anyway

Deadmeat5150
Nov 21, 2005

OLD MAN YELLS AT CLAN
##numberwang The approximate number of cookies I currently have in my pocket.

Deadmeat5150
Nov 21, 2005

OLD MAN YELLS AT CLAN

Pander posted:

I can't tell if this is sunk cost fallacy or if you're serious.

Probably a bit of both.

Grandicap
Feb 8, 2006

:siren:Looks like our tabulators have tabulated a winner. Congratulations to wologar with his guess of ggwp which is closest to today's Numberwang! of naught:siren:

Grandicap
Feb 8, 2006

Just a reminder, if you cannot decide on an execution voting for a no execute is allowed.

Pander
Oct 9, 2007

Fear is the glue that holds society together. It's what makes people suppress their worst impulses. Fear is power.

And at the end of fear, oblivion.



Welp.

Pander
Oct 9, 2007

Fear is the glue that holds society together. It's what makes people suppress their worst impulses. Fear is power.

And at the end of fear, oblivion.



Grandicap posted:

:siren:Looks like our tabulators have tabulated a winner. Congratulations to wologar with his guess of ggwp which is closest to today's Numberwang! of naught:siren:

I woulda guessed that deadmeat has zero cookies in his pocketses.

Deadmeat5150
Nov 21, 2005

OLD MAN YELLS AT CLAN

Pander posted:

I woulda guessed that deadmeat has zero cookies in his pocketses.

I actually had four.

MockingQuantum
Jan 20, 2012



well I'm not feeling all that excited for a no-execute vote since wolo winning the numberwang doesn't really change the calculus much as far as I can reason it

I'm inclined to switch my vote so we can stick a fork in this game and sort it all out in the aftermath, even though I think it's the wrong vote

Pander
Oct 9, 2007

Fear is the glue that holds society together. It's what makes people suppress their worst impulses. Fear is power.

And at the end of fear, oblivion.



Wologar isn't gonna post any more, deadmeat won't change his vote, and I don't self-vote, ever.

Just tell yourself it's actually a coin flip, vote me, and we'll go over it in post game. I really appreciate that you put a lot of effort in today. Was it because you were cleared and therefore didn't need to worry about defense?

If so, then the best advice I can give going forward is to always play like you're dealing with house money, like your execution is impossible and frivolous to consider. Lets you focus more on other people, gives you freedom to be wrong.

MockingQuantum
Jan 20, 2012



Pander posted:

Wologar isn't gonna post any more, deadmeat won't change his vote, and I don't self-vote, ever.

Just tell yourself it's actually a coin flip, vote me, and we'll go over it in post game. I really appreciate that you put a lot of effort in today. Was it because you were cleared and therefore didn't need to worry about defense?

If so, then the best advice I can give going forward is to always play like you're dealing with house money, like your execution is impossible and frivolous to consider. Lets you focus more on other people, gives you freedom to be wrong.

thank you for the advice! I'll take that to heart--I think it was a combination of feeling like I was cleared and feeling pretty strongly about you not being scum, so I was looking through the thread with a clear theory and seeing if the posts supported it. so yeah, all along the same lines of playing as if I'm not at risk and instead just have to find the right vote

MockingQuantum
Jan 20, 2012



and with that, it's been fun y'all

if wologar is scum I will be proud

if pander is scum I will eat a whole lot of crow, lol

if deadmeat is scum, I will laugh heartily

##vote pander

votefinder
Jul 6, 2010

scoop scoop
Votecount for Day 6

Pander (3): Deadmeat5150, wologar, MockingQuantum
wologar (1): Pander, MockingQuantum, MockingQuantum
MockingQuantum (0): wologar, wologar

Not Voting (0):

With 4 alive, it's 3 votes to execute. There is currently no deadline set.

Grandicap
Feb 8, 2006

And with that, the last number had been wanged. After pushing through molasses the whole day, the scant few of you on set that remain made a decision. It makes sense that the most eloquent cases on the entire field were perpetrated by none other than Wordwang! Trying to out the numbers since the begining, but Wordwang's hubris has been his downfall the whole time.


Pander Wordwang! Scum-aligned Doctor has been executed D6.

Good Game Town!

MockingQuantum
Jan 20, 2012



Grandicap posted:

And with that, the last number had been wanged. After pushing through molasses the whole day, the scant few of you on set that remain made a decision. It makes sense that the most eloquent cases on the entire field were perpetrated by none other than Wordwang! Trying to out the numbers since the begining, but Wordwang's hubris has been his downfall the whole time.


Pander Wordwang! Scum-aligned Doctor has been executed D5.

Good Game Town!

drat IT GRANDI

MockingQuantum
Jan 20, 2012



I swear "scum aligned doctor" might have been the one possibility I didn't float in my confessional, lol

Infinitum
Jul 30, 2004


Finally the sweet release of death

Pander played a shockingly good scum game
Sorry Wolo :v:

Cloacamazing!
Apr 18, 2018

Too cute to be evil
DAS WAR NÜMBERWANG!

(Very sorry for driving you mad by misremembering it, shwin)

Opopanax
Aug 8, 2007

I HEX YE!!!


So close

wologar
Feb 11, 2014

spacing in vienna
Jan 4, 2007

people they want us to fall down
but we won't ever touch the ground
we're perfectly balanced, we float around
til no one is here, do you hear the sound?


Lipstick Apathy
Hot drat, deadmeat, way to loving bring it home.

Pander, that was a phenomenal scum game.

MQ: you are a loving delight and I hope you stick around playing more Mafia.

Sandwolf
Jan 23, 2007

i'll be harpo


Pander honestly one of the most solid scum games I’ve seen in years. You were the only person I was sure was town (other than deadmeat) even after I died.

shwinnebego
Jul 11, 2002


DAS NÜMBERWANG

nah I actually like this better now

MockingQuantum
Jan 20, 2012



spacing in vienna posted:

Hot drat, deadmeat, way to loving bring it home.

Pander, that was a phenomenal scum game.

MQ: you are a loving delight and I hope you stick around playing more Mafia.

lol well I'm glad you think so, I frequently find myself rereading some of my posts and wondering "am I a horrendous gremlin of a player?"

MockingQuantum
Jan 20, 2012



also yeah well done pander, you had me convinced fairly early that you were town, then I was briefly unconvinced, then reconvinced

and good job on sticking to your guns deadmeat, were it not for you I definitely would have tanked the game at the end somehow

Deadmeat5150
Nov 21, 2005

OLD MAN YELLS AT CLAN

spacing in vienna posted:

Hot drat, deadmeat, way to loving bring it home.

Pander, that was a phenomenal scum game.

MQ: you are a loving delight and I hope you stick around playing more Mafia.

I'm pleasantly surprised myself.

shwinnebego
Jul 11, 2002


MockingQuantum posted:

lol well I'm glad you think so, I frequently find myself rereading some of my posts and wondering "am I a horrendous gremlin of a player?"

nah you're good u should stick around

Pander
Oct 9, 2007

Fear is the glue that holds society together. It's what makes people suppress their worst impulses. Fear is power.

And at the end of fear, oblivion.



Yeah, was a fun game! See everyone when I play another game in a year or two.

Also sorry JC, you were basically randomly selected for the NK n1 because you didn't post a ton so it wouldn't give much info.

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bowmore
Oct 6, 2008



Pander choked

Hurray town

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