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Ornery and Hornery
Oct 22, 2020

Nervous posted:

I weep for what could have been but will never come to be.

I, too, am upset that Anthony Richardson is a Colt and not a Seahawk

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Ornery and Hornery
Oct 22, 2020

MJeff posted:

Brad Holmes on Gibbs:

Prove it - release the texts, Brad.

Ornery and Hornery
Oct 22, 2020

Schmitz certainly has a fall from grace in that mock

Ornery and Hornery
Oct 22, 2020

Indy, please take good care of our big and handsome and powerful Gator QB

Ornery and Hornery
Oct 22, 2020

There’s no experience like game experience. Richardson, Ballard, and Steichen all have security for at least this year so they should create a safe learning environment and do their best.

Ornery and Hornery
Oct 22, 2020


Good for the Chargers. I hope they draft even more speed and YAC for Herbert :)

Also surprised at the numbers there for Mingo, Downs, and Tillman.

Ornery and Hornery
Oct 22, 2020

Doltos posted:

Yeah Hornery and Ornery said that last thread and I don't know where he got those numbers because the video he linked had two drops in it alone. I highly doubt Hyatt had only 3 the entire season (he also only has 1 full season of play it's not exactly a career)

He did not have two drops in that video alone. But hilariously, if that almost amazing catch is what counts as a drop, then that just means he has even better hands because that counted as one of the three he had all season.

You also implied Cam Smith locked Hyatt down which was also not true.

You clearly did not actually scout these people. So who cares what you “highly doubt”

Ornery and Hornery
Oct 22, 2020

Which team had the draft class with the most dawg in ‘em?

Ornery and Hornery
Oct 22, 2020

Black Lighter posted:

I think it's more Gen X/Millenials, but there's definitely a lot more 'You didn't follow the draft algorithm so even if your selections turn out to be hall of famers your draft was a failure' sentiment floating around than there used to be'. Like, people anymore just have a hard time accepting that the draft is a total crapshoot, and all that matters is that you beat the odds and walk away with good players.

The draft is mainly a crapshoot but not completely a crapshoot. That’s the point. You should apply appropriate strategies to eke out advantages that, in aggregate, will help the franchise win more over the long term.

Ornery and Hornery
Oct 22, 2020

Individual humans are hard to evaluate but positional value is easier to evaluate. So yeah it’s dumb to take rbs high and it’s dumb to take ILBs high. Interior OL are undervalued. Strategies abound.

Love 2 draft.

Ornery and Hornery
Oct 22, 2020

Yeah it’s all on sliding scales and weighing probabilities of outcomes.

Obviously it’s better to draft LB Luke Kuechly (real, good) in the first than to draft WR Bobby Hill (cartoon, crack shot)

Ornery and Hornery
Oct 22, 2020

YOLOsubmarine posted:

I’m not really sure this is true. A single great CB is easy enough to scheme around if the rest of the defense isn’t solid. Same with a great EDGE. It’s pretty easy for offenses to exploit weak spots in a defense and the short middle ends up being a weak spot for a lot of teams because the guys they have playing there can’t diagnose or cover.

Take the Seahawks, they’ve actually had a fair amount of success finding good corners in later rounds but their defense gets destroyed in the run because their linebackers loving suck and either can’t get to the play or run themselves out of it.

Defense as a whole is a weak link system. So while I appreciate the thrust of your argument, the specifics don’t carry out.

I do think you touched on one of the most important confounding variables of draft analysis though - some coaches loving suck and some are awesome.

Basically any qb who goes to Reid is going to look as good as they can be. Certain OL coaches can mold any clay. Pete is decent at building up corners to their potential.

So a problem with retrospective draft analysis is that the surrounding environment plays a huge factor. Like are we going to say that a prospect who struggled with a Matt Patricia team would have struggled everywhere?

That’s one of the most fun parts about all this discussion imo, so much nurture vs nature :)

Ornery and Hornery
Oct 22, 2020

YOLOsubmarine posted:

Wagner was a huge huge part of what made those LoB defenses work, along with Earl Thomas. Two positions that are currently devalued.

Free safeties are criminally undervalued at the moment.

Also there’s been two problems with the Seahawks defense in recent years:
1) they’ve had meh coordinators with schemes that shift every frequently

2) The front office has sucked at getting talent. At any given time over the last ~7 years there’s never been more than like 4 solid defensive starters on the team at any given time. For the later 2010s the defense was at least buoyed a bit by having a HoF Bobby Wagner. Positional relative value doesn’t really matter when most of the defensive players suck regardless of position.

Ornery and Hornery
Oct 22, 2020

Kalli posted:

It's pretty funny because for all the value the Pats shat away with the Cole Strange pick... their class as rookies is at least equal to what the Chiefs got so far?

How has Strange looked? Is he bad? Do the pats have a decent OL coach since Scar retired?

Ornery and Hornery
Oct 22, 2020

Metapod posted:

Undervalue linebackers then wonder why the run defense is so bad

Ornery and Hornery posted:

… over the last ~7 years there’s never been more than like 4 solid defensive starters on the team at any given time… Positional relative value doesn’t really matter when most of the defensive players suck regardless of position.

Ornery and Hornery
Oct 22, 2020

Kalli posted:

He was very bad the first half of the season, got benched for a little bit, played better as the season progressed, but still nothing special so far.

OL coach last year was.... Matt Patricia and they replaced him with Adrian Klemm, former OL guy who was coaching at Oregon.

I hate Matt Patricia

Ornery and Hornery
Oct 22, 2020

Seems like one of the main pieces of information the teams have over fans are the medical results.

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Ornery and Hornery
Oct 22, 2020

I always loved DK.

He’s strong and powerful and runs fast.

And iirc most people liked him enough that they thought end of the second was a bargain!

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