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Dreylad posted:it's very funny because the usa, europe, and even china are all facing serious demographic crises with respect to a rapidly aging population that requires a ton of young workers to support programs like old age pensions. in the us iirc it's going to be something like 1 worker for every 3 elderly people. you know this already Drey but I'll post it for others, there was a famous article in a major Canadian newspaper maybe ten years ago now talking about how an entire region of Canada (the Maritimes, a collective term for the small Atlantic provinces of Newfoundland, Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, and Prince Edward Island) were aging themselves into a social and economic death spiral, where there aren't enough workers which means there isn't enough economic activity which means more young people leave to find work which means there's even less economic activity. Near the end of the article, the journalist raises the question of immigration bringing in young people to support the aging population of the Maritimes, and what he finds is that all the old people there are so racist that they completely reject immigration even when they recognize it would directly benefit them and improve their lives, and that when immigrants do move there (for the low cost of living, for example), they're met with such hostility that they often leave again for a different part of Canada after a year or two. e: this is the article if this post piqued anybody's curiosity: https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/how-the-maritimes-became-canadas-incredible-shrinking-region/article23554298/
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May 20, 2023 01:56
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vyelkin posted:you know this already Drey but I'll post it for others, there was a famous article in a major Canadian newspaper maybe ten years ago now talking about how an entire region of Canada (the Maritimes, a collective term for the small Atlantic provinces of Newfoundland, Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, and Prince Edward Island) were aging themselves into a social and economic death spiral, where there aren't enough workers which means there isn't enough economic activity which means more young people leave to find work which means there's even less economic activity. Lol I know a Palestinian guy whose dad did 2 years in PEI as a doctor and bolted
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May 20, 2023 02:17
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There are no doctors in pei just veterinarians
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May 20, 2023 02:18
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does this extend to my posts here oh jeez
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May 20, 2023 02:23
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vyelkin posted:you know this already Drey but I'll post it for others, there was a famous article in a major Canadian newspaper maybe ten years ago now talking about how an entire region of Canada (the Maritimes, a collective term for the small Atlantic provinces of Newfoundland, Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, and Prince Edward Island) were aging themselves into a social and economic death spiral, where there aren't enough workers which means there isn't enough economic activity which means more young people leave to find work which means there's even less economic activity. its beautiful to see a self-correcting system
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May 20, 2023 02:45
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Hasn't capital traditionally favored more immigration (though preferably in less equitable/more exploitable forms)? Has racism grown so powerful that it can even defeat American business?
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May 20, 2023 02:49
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capital doesn't need immigration it can just go where it loving wants to. well, most. not agriculture. that still exists to some extent but it being a big factor is, im pretty sure, very old timey. finance capitalism doesn't really give a poo poo. see imperialism, the highest stage of capitalism which touches on it some: https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1916/imp-hsc/
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May 20, 2023 02:51
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joe football posted:Hasn't capital traditionally favored more immigration (though preferably in less equitable/more exploitable forms)? Has racism grown so powerful that it can even defeat American business? Capital is pro immigration in maximally exploitable forms and that's what we get. All the complaining about illegal immigration is kayfabe
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May 20, 2023 02:52
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joe football posted:Hasn't capital traditionally favored more immigration (though preferably in less equitable/more exploitable forms)? Has racism grown so powerful that it can even defeat American business? it's a very complicated topic, but this is pretty much the start of real immigration law in the us 
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May 20, 2023 02:53
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mysteriously at the same time, hundreds of thousands (millions?) of "illegal" chinese laborers were paid next to nothing to build the million miles of railroad the capitalists wanted right away
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May 20, 2023 02:55
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Al! posted:it's a very complicated topic, but this is pretty much the start of real immigration law in the us Pretty sure America had real immigration law before Joe Biden was elected.
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May 20, 2023 03:32
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Morbus posted:Capital is pro immigration in maximally exploitable forms and that's what we get. All the complaining about illegal immigration is kayfabe Yeah, this has always been my impression. In an abstract sense, capital will find a combination of high levels of immigration and strict immigration laws attractive because that gives it maximum leverage over its workforce. Undocumented migrants who work in lovely conditions have no recourse against their bosses, and even documented migrants often have their immigration status tied to their employment which means they have slightly more recourse but still much less than they should have as workers.
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May 20, 2023 03:43
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ELTON JOHN posted:borders are fascist they segregate people and keep them in a permanent state of exploitation and are maintained with violence
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May 20, 2023 05:31
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What do people think about China's tight border controls? Does anyone know anything about how their enforcement is carried out?
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May 20, 2023 05:47
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I don't really know how tight they are for the economic immigrants. Kind of hard to get objective information. I'd guess the North Korean border is the one they'd be concerned about the most and probably for political reasons. Any laxity there would turn into something to try to build a wedge between China and NK with. I don't think trade, travel, etc between China and NK have decrease at the same time as they increased border security. I think Dandong stuff opened back up already? COVID closing everything makes it a little weird to look at the past few years. It's probably very difficult in general to get real information about this without being able to read Chinese. There are probably things written in English that are fine, just not very common. Also Myanmar's border with China is 2000 km and mostly mountainous/heavily forested along a river. and RFA loves to write about it. there are academic papers from chinese universities though that are probably good. https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/23996544221106015 for example. can't find the pdf though. sci-hub hasn't been able to get stuff since 2019 =/ as for personal opinion china's government clearly does not want to destabilize its neighbors or other countries for economic purposes, especially to cheapen labor. It really can't be compared to the US or its pals in that sense. considering NK and Myanmar's historical and current positions it seems like they're doing a pretty good job not doing anything that would blow up relations destabilize either side of the border. Cuttlefush has issued a correction as of 06:17 on May 20, 2023 |
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May 20, 2023 06:12
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contrast that with US-Mexico relations where US policies and actions have absolutely and completely hosed things up. Literally initiated a rapidly increasing cycle of psychotic violence on multiple levels by training psychos while destabilizing the large cartels and leadership. After being the cause for it to exist in the first place the entire time prior to that, of course. Basically turned the northern states into the white person stereotype of them circa 2000. It's hosed.
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May 20, 2023 06:37
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Weka posted:What do people think about China's tight border controls? Does anyone know anything about how their enforcement is carried out? it's pretty difficult for people to move from rural areas to the cities, even with the constant urban expansion, and that's just citizens within the country that being said, China's (reported) incarceration rate is less than a quarter of USA's so maybe they're more likely to expel people than throw them in internment camps
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May 20, 2023 07:27
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Filthy Hans posted:it's pretty difficult for people to move from rural areas to the cities, even with the constant urban expansion, and that's just citizens within the country ehhh is it though? china is kind of known for having a hell of a lot of internal movement from rural->city and back. i don't think you'd be able to call the internal movement difficult in the sense that it's too difficult to do. china is kinda #1 at it Cuttlefush has issued a correction as of 07:36 on May 20, 2023 |
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May 20, 2023 07:33
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Cuttlefush posted:ehhh is it though? I don't have a solid source for you, everything I've heard is there are very long waiting lists for people to get from rural areas to cities because few people want to live out there they have that one holiday where like half the population travels around the country for a couple of weeks, but that's not the same thing as moving
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May 20, 2023 07:36
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i work in refugee integration and i'd like to say ama but i don't want to say which country i work in because based on my other posts it would be possible to piece together who i work for if someone really wanted to. but i can answer very general questions about refugee integration, and there are certain truths about this job that seem to be universal. for example integration projects generally do not have the resources to deal with the various psychological issues that refugees often develop, like ptsd, depression, gad, etc. we end up doing our best to work around these various maladies because we usually can't treat them, and when someone leaves the program with a job and an apartment we always just gotta hope that theyre gonna be ok. another seemingly universal truth about this sector is that it is extremely unstable and our jobs and the lives of the people we are trying to help are closely tied to political outcomes at both the local and national level. if an election goes sideways we can lose everything. and this is one of the reasons that i dont judge anyone for voting for a centre left party, or hell even a goddamn democrat in the US
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May 20, 2023 07:39
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Filthy Hans posted:I don't have a solid source for you, everything I've heard is there are very long waiting lists for people to get from rural areas to cities because few people want to live out there ohhh, hukou stuff? okay i gotcha now. yeah changing residency probably is difficult. again though that's like... super propaganda blast territory for any english writing. my bad though i really should have known that's what you were referring to
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May 20, 2023 07:40
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Filthy Hans posted:I don't have a solid source for you, everything I've heard is there are very long waiting lists for people to get from rural areas to cities because few people want to live out there where are they traveling to, if they haven’t moved to the cities?
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May 20, 2023 11:27
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Filthy Hans posted:I don't have a solid source for you, everything I've heard is there are very long waiting lists for people to get from rural areas to cities because few people want to live out there I think someone played a prank on you OP.
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May 20, 2023 16:19
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lol hans
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May 20, 2023 16:21
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Weka posted:Australia does a lot of hosed up poo poo around immigration but requiring dogs coming from countries with rabies to undergo 10 days of quarantine even if their owners are rich and famous is not one of them. They have a large and longstanding population of somewhat protected feral dogs and rabies could potentially devastate it. Wow they offshored asylum seekers entirely onto Papua New Guinea.
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May 20, 2023 16:39
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Nocturtle posted:Wow they offshored asylum seekers entirely onto Papua New Guinea. Australia also built a concentration camp on Nauru where they indefinitely detained thousands of refugees and then had guards sexually abuse them until they committed suicide. In the process they made it a crime punishable with up to ten years in prison for journalists to report on conditions in the concentration camp.
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May 20, 2023 16:41
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vyelkin posted:Australia also built a concentration camp on Nauru where they indefinitely detained thousands of refugees and then had guards sexually abuse them until they committed suicide. In the process they made it a crime punishable with up to ten years in prison for journalists to report on conditions in the concentration camp. that's the one i always think of whenever australia's immigration policies come up
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May 20, 2023 19:15
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Nocturtle posted:Wow they offshored asylum seekers entirely onto Papua New Guinea. Denmark did this too recently, they also strip any non white refugees of their valuables.
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May 20, 2023 20:02
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e: oops nvm people are effortposting in this thread
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May 20, 2023 20:20
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fart simpson posted:where are they traveling to, if they haven’t moved to the cities? visiting family who live in cities, or city dwellers visiting family in the hinterlands, or people from one city visiting another it's basically 2 weeks of their entire transportation system packed to the gills going every which way
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May 20, 2023 21:44
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Filthy Hans posted:visiting family who live in cities, or city dwellers visiting family in the hinterlands, or people from one city visiting another Why does half of a family live one place and half another?
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May 20, 2023 23:57
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What is divorce? Is it even real?
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May 21, 2023 00:13
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Weka posted:Why does half of a family live one place and half another? lol this mfer hasn't seen any fast and furious movies
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May 21, 2023 00:34
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Filthy Hans posted:I don't have a solid source for you, everything I've heard is there are very long waiting lists for people to get from rural areas to cities because few people want to live out there what happens is that rural people who become "illegal immigrants" don't qualify for social services in the city Weka posted:Why does half of a family live one place and half another? The point of the holiday or at least one of the big ones is to go sweep your ancestral cemetery plot in grandma and grampas hometown War and Pieces has issued a correction as of 18:12 on May 21, 2023 |
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May 21, 2023 18:08
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War and Pieces posted:what happens is that rural people who become "illegal immigrants" don't qualify for social services in the city oic
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May 21, 2023 23:15
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War and Pieces posted:what happens is that rural people who become "illegal immigrants" don't qualify for social services in the city that’s a different holiday. qingming
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May 22, 2023 06:28
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Filthy Hans posted:visiting family who live in cities, or city dwellers visiting family in the hinterlands, or people from one city visiting another yeah it’s what that other guy said. they’re going “home” for the holiday, which necessarily means people have moved (mostly to the cities and home is mostly in a rural area). the “waiting lists” are not waiting to move, they’re waiting to become an official resident of the city (transfer their hukou to the city). people just move largely to wherever they want, but certain government services will only be available to you where you’re registered as an official resident, which has certain requirements that might or might not be easy for someone to meet. the easy way is a lot of places have a path for recent college graduates to transfer their hukou.
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May 22, 2023 06:31
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fart simpson posted:yeah it’s what that other guy said. they’re going “home” for the holiday, which necessarily means people have moved (mostly to the cities and home is mostly in a rural area). ty for the clarification, fart simpson
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May 22, 2023 06:35
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AnimeIsTrash posted:Denmark did this too recently, they also strip any non white refugees of their valuables. also if you live outside denmark for too long, you count as non-white.
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May 22, 2023 10:04
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im not white?
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May 22, 2023 11:48
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