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counterfeitsaint posted:At least we've got the fact that they completely forgot there was a ruling at all and went full slaver mode a few decades later. Not even, remember how all those EMH Mark 1s had to work as mining slaves?
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Apr 13, 2024 18:45
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"we installed a system that allows our computer to fully sense everything inside this region and use forcefield and tractor beams to manipulate matter on a detailed level and we're using it to project a bald guy chipping out the ore"
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Apr 13, 2024 18:52
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That bit made no sense to me. The Doctor only became truly sentient after being left active for far longer than designed and being forced outside the bounds of his programming. Why would stock EMH Mk.1 programs need to be kept around? If it’s an ethical concern about erasing fledgling sentient beings, then how is turning them into miners against their will ethical itself? (The android slaves in Picard were “fine” because they weren’t actually people, just worker robots built with human faces for a reason I’m sure must have been a good one.)
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Apr 13, 2024 19:17
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it was in the last will of lewis zimmerman that all the things created in his img, suffer. the federation was honor-bound
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Apr 13, 2024 19:17
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At least give them holo drills and jackhammers and poo poo
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Apr 13, 2024 19:18
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calm down, peter gabriel
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Apr 13, 2024 19:24
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blastron posted:That bit made no sense to me. The Doctor only became truly sentient after being left active for far longer than designed and being forced outside the bounds of his programming. Why would stock EMH Mk.1 programs need to be kept around? If it’s an ethical concern about erasing fledgling sentient beings, then how is turning them into miners against their will ethical itself? Holograms are by and large portrayed as sentient, just with various amounts of blinders put on them to prevent them noticing their situation. Like the Doctor was sentient in episode 1 of Voyager, it just took him a while to appreciate it and chafe at being treated like software
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Apr 13, 2024 19:25
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I think the doctor may have some kind of learning ability that would normally get wiped by firmware updates.
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Apr 13, 2024 19:34
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Sentient holograms are one of the most inconsistent things in Star Trek, which is saying something. The doctor was sentient because he has to run so long, even though he also started out that way in season 1. Then Moriarty is sentient from conception just because, but you have to disable safety protocols. Moriarty can easily make more sentient holograms, and so can those predator dudes from Voyager cause whatever. Seems like there would be some ethical concerns that any ship with a holodeck can easily create intelligent life but I guess it's not worth ever exploring how or why that's possible.
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Apr 13, 2024 20:01
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TNG answered that with Minuet, its because having a sentient sex-doll in your "totally not a brothel"-program is better UX than one running on a glorified chatGPT script.
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Apr 13, 2024 20:11
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blastron posted:That bit made no sense to me. The Doctor only became truly sentient after being left active for far longer than designed and being forced outside the bounds of his programming. Why would stock EMH Mk.1 programs need to be kept around? If it’s an ethical concern about erasing fledgling sentient beings, then how is turning them into miners against their will ethical itself?
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Apr 14, 2024 05:22
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Couldn't they have thought of some other menial job to have them doing? We now have lots of automation and mechanisation in mines, and even in TNG they had some fancy laser mining station. Why a bunch of men with pickaxes.
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Apr 14, 2024 05:31
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Surely there are infirm individuals that could use the presence of a doctor 24/7 or a doctor in a fellowship who could use an assistant?
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Apr 14, 2024 05:46
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Boxturret posted:Couldn't they have thought of some other menial job to have them doing? We now have lots of automation and mechanisation in mines, and even in TNG they had some fancy laser mining station. Why a bunch of men with pickaxes. Funny enough the end of the episode would've probably worked just as well had they shown two Picardos in a Starfleet medical facility, having a private moment. Was the Dominion war going on at that point? Could've shown them in a field hospital.
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Apr 14, 2024 06:18
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Boxturret posted:Couldn't they have thought of some other menial job to have them doing? We now have lots of automation and mechanisation in mines, and even in TNG they had some fancy laser mining station. Why a bunch of men with pickaxes. Some may argue that a diamond is still a diamond, even if it is one among millions. But blood diamonds shine brighter still because of all the suffering that has gone into them.
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Apr 14, 2024 06:41
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counterfeitsaint posted:Seems like there would be some ethical concerns that any ship with a holodeck can easily create intelligent life but I guess it's not worth ever exploring how or why that's possible. I mean, that's not exactly weird science fiction when it comes right down to it, that's just loving.
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Apr 14, 2024 07:09
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Boxturret posted:Couldn't they have thought of some other menial job to have them doing? We now have lots of automation and mechanisation in mines, and even in TNG they had some fancy laser mining station. Why a bunch of men with pickaxes. Playing various roles in one of Barclay's holodeck programs? Catch two of them away from Barclay doing costume changes and fitting wigs and doing makeup to each other?
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Apr 14, 2024 07:13
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They're computer files, the idea of having too many or too few is ridiculous. All it takes is a little bit of ctrl+v and shift+del and you have the exact number you need at any given time.
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Apr 14, 2024 07:20
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BonHair posted:I mean, that's not exactly weird science fiction when it comes right down to it, that's just loving. Where were you when Picard was admonishing Data for making Lal?
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Apr 14, 2024 07:42
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With the advances in tech, maybe by the end of Picard, Troi, Riker and Minuet are in a wholesome stable throuple.
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Apr 14, 2024 09:35
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counterfeitsaint posted:Sentient holograms are one of the most inconsistent things in Star Trek, which is saying something. The doctor was sentient because he has to run so long, even though he also started out that way in season 1. Then Moriarty is sentient from conception just because, but you have to disable safety protocols. Moriarty can easily make more sentient holograms, and so can those predator dudes from Voyager cause whatever. Seems like there would be some ethical concerns that any ship with a holodeck can easily create intelligent life but I guess it's not worth ever exploring how or why that's possible. The first TNG holodeck episode ends with one of the Dixon Hill guys realising with quiet horror that he's a character in a book and his existence is about to end, it's been there right from the start but I think they just like the holodeck premise too much to really interogate the technology in a way that would be warranted
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Apr 14, 2024 10:48
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AND YET they actively say they can't make AI Well what's Moriarty then guys?
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Apr 14, 2024 14:07
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No Dignity posted:The first TNG holodeck episode ends with one of the Dixon Hill guys realising with quiet horror that he's a character in a book and his existence is about to end, it's been there right from the start but I think they just like the holodeck premise too much to really interogate the technology in a way that would be warranted
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Apr 14, 2024 16:17
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NJM posted:I always figured the origin of the holodeck as a concept was the writers really wanting the option to do things like the gangster planet in TOS. But they realized almost immediately, there's no stakes in watching someone walk their way through a video game. To add some sort of dram, they threw in AIs and busted safeties. Thus making it eye rolley in a whole new way Holodeck as a concept was first used in TAS, where it was a variable environment rec and training room.
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Apr 14, 2024 16:31
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No Dignity posted:The first TNG holodeck episode ends with one of the Dixon Hill guys realising with quiet horror that he's a character in a book and his existence is about to end, it's been there right from the start but I think they just like the holodeck premise too much to really interogate the technology in a way that would be warranted It's a good episode to re-watch for showing how mystified Picard is at the improvements to the holodeck. Makes me think the previous version was like Second Life.
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Apr 14, 2024 17:19
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Der Kyhe posted:Holodeck as a concept was first used in TAS, where it was a variable environment rec and training room. I've never actually watched TAS, except for bits & pieces. I didn't know the holodeck was introduced in it. Reading the episode description, sounds like the holodeck malfunction was there from the start. Interestingly, on Memory Alpha, they say the TNG writers probably weren't inspired by the TAS version. Is TAS worth going back to? I haven't really found the parts I've watched to really be all that engaging
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Apr 14, 2024 17:58
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NJM posted:I've never actually watched TAS, except for bits & pieces. I didn't know the holodeck was introduced in it. Reading the episode description, sounds like the holodeck malfunction was there from the start. Interestingly, on Memory Alpha, they say the TNG writers probably weren't inspired by the TAS version. If nothing else, watching Yesteryear is a great examination of Spock. Even when TAS wasn't fully canon, Yesteryear was the exception.
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Apr 14, 2024 18:07
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Boxturret posted:Couldn't they have thought of some other menial job to have them doing? We now have lots of automation and mechanisation in mines, and even in TNG they had some fancy laser mining station. Why a bunch of men with pickaxes. The men with pickaxes ARE the lasers, fool. Taear posted:AND YET they actively say they can't make AI A not very well thought through plot, which is why they just kinda forgot about him.
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Apr 14, 2024 23:19
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Ravenson posted:If nothing else, watching Yesteryear is a great examination of Spock. Even when TAS wasn't fully canon, Yesteryear was the exception. Yesteryear is only the second episode. I watched it a few weeks ago, and it makes the whole "Michael was always Spock's sibling and here are some flashbacks of them competing as children" even dumber.
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Apr 14, 2024 23:25
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SlothfulCobra posted:A not very well thought through plot, which is why they just kinda forgot about him. I mean you say that but he's in TWO episodes of TNG which is quite rare (as in, there's a followup episode about him) and they brought him back in Picard for some reason
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Apr 15, 2024 17:28
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IMO holograms should just be extensions of the computer and if they're behaving like Moriarty or the EMH something is wrong. In Moriarty's case it's because normally a hologram couldn't "defeat" a human but since Data's not a human there's a loophole. Similarly you can't have a doctor who's scared they might kill someone who's gonna be dead if they don't intervene so they used ethical subroutines instead of hard coding him to do no harm.
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Apr 15, 2024 18:05
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I knew Picard was going to suck when they introduced the hall of nostalgia in the first episode Along with, well, the rest of that episode
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Apr 15, 2024 18:10
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NJM posted:I've never actually watched TAS, except for bits & pieces. I didn't know the holodeck was introduced in it. Reading the episode description, sounds like the holodeck malfunction was there from the start. Interestingly, on Memory Alpha, they say the TNG writers probably weren't inspired by the TAS version. The total run of TAS, 22 episodes * 24 minutes is bit less than 9 hours. It has flaws, animation is janky because it is all hand-made, and they repeat certain stock animations, but overall the episodes aren't that bad, I'd say 5-6 of them actually quite good. There are only two really weird episodes which I remember off-hand, and those are also the ones from which 99% of the gifs about the show are taken from. The biggest turnoff for myself was the overall "pinkness" of everything on some occasions, and at times aggressively 70's aesthetics, but overall I think it holds water just fine even in 2021 when I binged it during the lockdowns. Also worth keeping in mind, it is as close as cartoon show for adults in network TV you could get at the times, it clearly isn't written for children, but as seasons 4 and 5 of the original show, which was also the original intention. As earlier post mentioned, it also wasn't considered canon, Yesteryear being the exception, until Lower Decks brought pretty much everything worth mentioning back. Der Kyhe fucked around with this message at 19:15 on Apr 15, 2024 |
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Apr 15, 2024 19:12
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https://twitter.com/tsarnick/status/1779358238762488101 Data's lookin rough these days
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Apr 15, 2024 19:37
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Der Kyhe posted:The total run of TAS, 22 episodes * 24 minutes is bit less than 9 hours. The pinkness and prominence of odd color combination is because the director of Season 1 was literally colorblind. Clarification and was therefore unable to tell Irv Kaplan to knock it the gently caress off. Lemniscate Blue fucked around with this message at 20:35 on Apr 15, 2024 |
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Apr 15, 2024 20:29
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zoux posted:https://twitter.com/tsarnick/status/1779358238762488101 He's reinvented himself to look like a singer in a '90s boy band.
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Apr 15, 2024 20:40
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Is he still stealing his son’s blood and sperm or whatever the gently caress?
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Apr 15, 2024 22:02
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Der Kyhe posted:Yesteryear being the exception How can Yesteryear be the only canon episode when it directly contradicts Disco? Is Disco officially not canon? I ask, with my heart in my throat.
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Apr 15, 2024 23:15
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Disco will only be decanonized if a particularly spiteful fan gets control of the franchise in 20 years and creates a show to specifically to scrub its timeline from history. But even then, the mycelial network and the conditions for the burn and all that implies will stick around. More likely it'll just be quietly ignored outside of an occasional sideways glance, like how SNW treats it.
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Apr 15, 2024 23:40
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If I had my way, to continue the theme, not only will it be decanonized, it will be dug out of its grave and put on trial like in the cadaver synod. Picard too.
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Apr 15, 2024 23:43
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