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god please help me
Jul 9, 2018
I LOVE GIVING MY TAX MONEY AND MY PERSONAL INCOME TO UKRAINE, SLAVA

Mustang posted:



It is loving repulsive that the Democrats support this.

Man, this is more of an issue with there still being MAGA hogs in congress, and Israel's only going to go more hogwild upon any Gaza residents once the Trump administration comes.

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Radical 90s Wizard
Aug 5, 2008

~SS-18 burning bright,
Bathe me in your cleansing light~
E) forget it, I'm not biting

PurpleXVI
Oct 30, 2011

Spewing insults, pissing off all your neighbors, betraying your allies, backing out of treaties and accords, and generally screwing over the global environment?
ALL PART OF MY BRILLIANT STRATEGY!
https://x.com/haaretzcom/status/1796387375544713315

quote:

"I've seen some strange things in my life, but I refuse to believe that the organization I served and whose values I believed in could do something like this," ex-Mossad chief tells Haaretz about report claiming his successor threatened ICC prosecutor

...

'Sounds Like Cosa Nostra Blackmail': Former Mossad Chief on Successor's Alleged Threats Against ICC Prosecutor

In response to the report that then-Mossad chief Yossi Cohen tried to intimidate the chief prosecutor of the International Criminal Court, Tamir Pardo says: "This is at the extreme of things that must not be done'

lmao, "I refuse to believe that the intelligence organization of an apartheid state perpetrating a genocide would crassly try to intimidate people ; _ ;"

Herstory Begins Now
Aug 5, 2003

he probably means the getting caught doing it part

SerthVarnee
Mar 13, 2011

It has been two zero days since last incident.
Big Super Slapstick Hunk
Or not following through with the threats. Even if the prosecutor did what they said to do.

raminasi
Jan 25, 2005

a last drink with no ice
Haaretz claims that they knew about ICC intimidation two years ago but Israeli censors squashed the story.

quote:

In May 2022, Haaretz had hoped to publish this exact headline: that Israel acted to extort the prosecutor, through the Mossad, as part of an operation directed and personally lead by [then-Mossad head] Cohen.

quote:

At the beginning of 2022, I attempted to contact the former prosecutor through a third party who knew her. Bensouda never responded to the approach, but days after the attempt, when I wanted to publish the story, my phone rang and on the other end of the line was the voice of a senior security official. "Can you come to see me tomorrow?" he asked.

At the entrance to the senior official's office, I was asked to deposit my mobile phone to prevent me from recording the conversation. In the room, another senior official from a different security agency was waiting for me. The conversation began with the words, "We understand you know about the prosecutor."

It was a polite conversation, a polite threat. The tone was calm, the content much less so. I was explained that if I publish the story, I would suffer the consequences and get to know the interrogation rooms of the Israeli security authorities from the inside. I argued against the use of security powers to prevent the publication of information whose harm is not security-related but rather reputational in nature, but to no avail.

In the end, it was made clear to me that even sharing the information "with my friends abroad," referring to foreign media outlets, would lead to the same results.

Proud Christian Mom
Dec 20, 2006
READING COMPREHENSION IS HARD
guess who's coming to dinner

https://x.com/mychaelschnell/status/1796618791536718166

Count Roland
Oct 6, 2013

Didn't Schumer criticize Bibi a few months ago?

Mustang
Jun 18, 2006

“We don’t really know where this goes — and I’m not sure we really care.”
Democrats fully support the ongoing genocide of the Palestinians as seen by their complete and utter lack of action to reign in the genocidal freaks.

Really incredible to demoralize their own voter base to support a country that has fully hitched themselves to Republicans at their expense.

Stunning political incompetence and lack of basic human decency.

Stultus Maximus
Dec 21, 2009

USPOL May

Mustang posted:

Democrats fully support the ongoing genocide of the Palestinians as seen by their complete and utter lack of action to reign in the genocidal freaks.

Really incredible to demoralize their own voter base to support a country that has fully hitched themselves to Republicans at their expense.

Stunning political incompetence and lack of basic human decency.

Democratic voters are not unified in opposition to Israel as you keep implying. Younger voters are strongly against Israel's actions but older voters, who are overall more likely to vote, are just as strongly supportive of Israel. My Congressman, in a solidly blue gerrymandered district, is strongly opposed to supporting Israel. She's being primaried and her challenger's top attack is that she doesn't support Israel and he will. He's likely to win.
With a split like that, there is no electoral solution. You alienate one side or the other no matter what. You seem like you're gearing up for a big "I told you so, if only he'd have listened to me he would have won." But you are willfully ignoring that if he'd take your desired action, he could also alienate enough Zionist Democratic voters to lose anyway. You can call this a lack of basic human decency but "stunning political incompetence" is nonsense.

CommieGIR
Aug 22, 2006

The blue glow is a feature, not a bug


Pillbug

Mustang posted:

Democrats fully support the ongoing genocide of the Palestinians as seen by their complete and utter lack of action to reign in the genocidal freaks.

Really incredible to demoralize their own voter base to support a country that has fully hitched themselves to Republicans at their expense.

Stunning political incompetence and lack of basic human decency.

Again - our entire geopolitical strategy for the past 100+ years has been incompetent and lacking in basic human decency. This is not unique. And that the little Biden has done is a stunning change of tone towards Israel, even if it isn't enough.

Mustang
Jun 18, 2006

“We don’t really know where this goes — and I’m not sure we really care.”
I do not give a single gently caress what any moderate or centrist thinks or why they support genocide.

"Gotta chase the genocide vote!".

Good luck in November.

Kazinsal
Dec 13, 2011

Go outside, dude.

Raerlynn
Oct 28, 2007

Sorry I'm late, I'm afraid I got lost on the path of life.

Mustang posted:

I do not give a single gently caress what any moderate or centrist thinks or why they support genocide.

"Gotta chase the genocide vote!".

Good luck in November.

Contrary to what you may be given to believe, you are not the sole oracle for the Democratic party.

You want to see the Dems take a stronger stand against Israel? Start loving convincing the part of the Democratic party that's okay with that to stop.

Morality be damned, you're witnessing Representative Democracy in action.

Mustang
Jun 18, 2006

“We don’t really know where this goes — and I’m not sure we really care.”
You mean the people slandering pro-Palestinian protestors as anti-semites and sicking the cops on them?

If all the horrors coming out of Gaza can't convince them that supporting a genocidal apartheid state is morally repugnant then nothing will.

Supporting genocide is a perfect expression of who these people are as human beings.

Biden and the Democrats have bent over backwards for Israel, any red line by Biden is clearly not a serious one.

bird food bathtub
Aug 9, 2003

College Slice
Gotta find a way to get a whole lot of the electorate just as anti-Israel Mustang. It's not a good thing that they're not, but it is a real thing. One that seems to be changing but much slower than I'd like unfortunately.

Herstory Begins Now
Aug 5, 2003

granted it's normally used in a different (and bad) context but it's the whole 'hazard of democracy' thing where it's a really big problem if the electorate actually wants really bad things

The Eyes Have It
Feb 10, 2008

Third Eye Sees All
...snookums
Change always comes later than we think it should :(

Punished Ape
Sep 17, 2021
https://x.com/POTUS/status/1796630880695226647

Dandywalken
Feb 11, 2014

Unleash... the second pier!!!

Midjack
Dec 24, 2007



I feel like the "lol sike we kill 'em all" may have been inadvertently left out somewhere. What does Israel get out of this? Just the hostages?

mlmp08
Jul 11, 2004

Prepare for my priapic projectile's exalted penetration
Nap Ghost

https://x.com/IsraeliPM/status/1796643265397064024

Israeli PM account: Our peace plan is we war til we win, I guess.

Herstory Begins Now
Aug 5, 2003

yeah israel perceives themselves as getting what they want, idk why they'd change course barring something actually compelling them to

Midjack
Dec 24, 2007



mlmp08 posted:

https://x.com/IsraeliPM/status/1796643265397064024

Israeli PM account: Our peace plan is we war til we win, I guess.

Yeah okay that's more in line with expectations.

not caring here
Feb 22, 2012

blazemastah 2 dry 4 u
I thought that the hostages were all dead. From, you know, the Israeli bombings.

orange juche
Mar 14, 2012



not caring here posted:

I thought that the hostages were all dead. From, you know, the Israeli bombings.

They probably are very dead, but if the IDF admits that, then they admit that their whole campaign was pretty much a waste of time. When they rolled into Gaza I was like "They've learned absolutely nothing from watching the USA slam its dick in a door for 20+ years, COIN doesn't work."

McNally
Sep 13, 2007

Ask me about Proposition 305


Do you like muskets?

not caring here posted:

I thought that the hostages were all dead. From, you know, the Israeli bombings.

They died with Israeli bombings, not from Israeli bombings

habituallyred
Feb 6, 2015
At first I heard it as a three state solution...

PurpleXVI
Oct 30, 2011

Spewing insults, pissing off all your neighbors, betraying your allies, backing out of treaties and accords, and generally screwing over the global environment?
ALL PART OF MY BRILLIANT STRATEGY!

Midjack posted:

I feel like the "lol sike we kill 'em all" may have been inadvertently left out somewhere. What does Israel get out of this? Just the hostages?

There's a good bit of domestic pressure on Netanyahu from people who are more concerned with getting the hostages home than with murdering Palestinians. They still want the Palestinians dead, of course, just after their relatives and friends are safely home.

pantslesswithwolves
Oct 28, 2008

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/israel-hamas-war-hostage-deal-netanyahu-polls-families-rcna154841

quote:

TEL AVIV — Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu will not agree to end the war in Gaza in exchange for the release of hostages unless opinion polls show it is politically advantageous for him, a top Israeli security official told the families of those held captive, a person in the closed-door meeting and an advocacy group said Friday.

The comments by Netanyahu’s national security adviser Tzachi Hanegbi, first made public by Israel’s Channel 12 broadcaster, sent shock waves through the hostage family community nearly eight months after their loved ones were kidnapped by Hamas during the Oct. 7 attack.

“The Israeli government made a conscious and deliberate decision to sacrifice the hostages,” the Hostage Family Forum said in a statement Friday. “The hostages, and the entire State of Israel, have been taken captive by those who chose political interests over their national and governmental duty.”

Hanegbi met with relatives of the hostages at the Defense Ministry in Tel Aviv on Thursday afternoon. Among the attendees was Gil Dickmann, whose 40-year-old cousin, Carmel Gat, is among the 125 hostages still being held in Gaza.

Hanegbi "told us: ‘We understand that the only way to bring all the hostages back is through a deal that will bring an end to the war.’ And as he sees it, the Israeli government is not going to put an end to the war right now,” Dickmann told NBC News in an interview Friday.

“He said the only way to make Netanyahu do this is to make him understand that it’s going to be politically good for him, that if he sees polls that say that the Israeli public wants to see the hostages home more than it wants the continuation of the war, then he will make a deal that will bring all the hostages home,” he added. “We were shocked by this.”

In a statement released by the prime minister’s office, Hanegbi said he would not comment publicly on what was said in a closed-door meeting. “This is the proper way to have an open dialogue between the political echelon and the grieving families. I will not deviate from this tradition even after today’s meeting. Israel is obligated to bring about the release of all the abductees, and we will do so,” he said.

Cease-fire negotiations between Israel and Hamas have remained deadlocked for months over a number of issues but particularly the question of an end to the war.

Hamas reiterated its position in a statement Thursday, which said it would only release the hostages in exchange for an end to the conflict and the withdrawal of Israeli forces from Gaza.

Netanyahu has consistently said he will not agree to end the war as part of a hostage deal — framing his decision in national security terms by saying Israel is obligated to destroy Hamas and prevent the possibility of a repeat of the Oct. 7 terror attack. But Hanegbi’s comments suggest Netanyahu’s position is also guided by political considerations.

Dickmann said Hanegbi told the families of the hostages he believed it was possible that the first stage of a deal could be agreed upon, which would see the release of some hostages in exchange for a cease-fire deal lasting several weeks.

But, he said, Hanegbi also warned that once the current offensive in Gaza’s southernmost city of Rafah is completed, Israel would lose the ability to pressure Hamas, and that public attention would shift away from the enclave and the hostages and toward a potential conflict with Hezbollah in southern Lebanon.

“And so I said to [Hanegbi]: ‘That means we’re lost.’ And he replied: Yes, that’s correct,’” Dickmann said.

The Israeli military confirmed for the first time Friday that its forces were operating against Hamas in central Rafah, days after it was widely criticized for an airstrike that sparked a major fire that killed dozens of Palestinians.

The Israel Defense Forces also said it had completed an operation in Jabalia in northern Gaza, where the bodies of seven hostages have been recovered in recent weeks.

Israeli opinion polls paint a mixed picture of the public’s willingness to end the war in Gaza in exchange for the hostages, with survey results varying depending on how the question is framed.

A poll in early May for the Israeli Democracy Institute think tank found that 56% of Jewish Israelis believed that securing the release of the hostages should be Israel’s highest priority, while 37% believed the highest priority should be launching an offensive in Rafah.

But another poll for the Maariv newspaper last week found that 37% of Israelis believed Israel should agree to Hamas’ demand for an end to the war in exchange for the hostages, while 43% believed Israel should continue intensive military action in Rafah.

Netanyahu’s approval ratings, which slumped after the Oct. 7 attack, also appeared to be improving in a high-profile poll for Channel 12, which found that he had overtaken his closest rival, centrist leader Benny Gantz, on the question of who was more suited to be prime minister for the first time since the start of the war.

Gantz’s National Unity is pushing for early elections. The move came after an ultimatum Gantz, a member of Netanyahu’s war Cabinet, issued earlier this month, demanding that the prime minister agree to a day-after plan for the Gaza war by June 8.

Polls show National Unity continuing to lead Netanyahu’s right-wing Likud, but by a smaller margin than before.

Even for a politician as cynical and craven as Netanyahu, this is some profoundly evil "person before party before country" poo poo.

ThisIsJohnWayne
Feb 23, 2007
Ooo! Look at me! NO DON'T LOOK AT ME!



I don't know if I'd choose the word cynical. Selfish, more like. That goes for the respondents in those polls too. The darkest way to read israeli majority opinion is "we want the hostages, we don't want them released, we want them rescued by the idf. We also want all them arabs gone or dead and that it hurts the entire time. The crimes will continue until we get everything we want." Nothing given everything got, is a pretty selfish way to be.
Especially when it's abundantly clear the most valued get isn't the hostages

TEMPLE GRANDIN OS
Dec 10, 2003

...blyat
that will make him more popular to his voters they are crazed animals like trumpists

Tiny Timbs
Sep 6, 2008

I never once got the impression that the folks interested foremost in rescuing the hostages meant that they also wanted hostilities to end once they were returned.

Proud Christian Mom
Dec 20, 2006
READING COMPREHENSION IS HARD

CommieGIR posted:

that the little Biden has done is a stunning change of tone towards Israel, even if it isn't enough.

Jesus this really is what you freaks are gonna hang your hat on isn't it

Tiny Timbs
Sep 6, 2008

I'm going to create a beautiful, rejuvenating park for the posting-is-praxis people to log off for a while and reconnect with nature

CommieGIR
Aug 22, 2006

The blue glow is a feature, not a bug


Pillbug

Proud Christian Mom posted:

Jesus this really is what you freaks are gonna hang your hat on isn't it

There are two places you can hang your hat - one of them is unhinged and will absolutely accelerate what Israel is doing. The other is just doing what we've been doing for the last 30+ years in relation to Israeli-US relations.

Both hat hanging places suck, but one will most certainly accelerate it, and its the one that Bibi wants you to hang your hat on anyways. None of us have the power to shift US-Israeli relations towards a Palestinian solution at all, and pretending you know the magic trick to it is laughable. This poo poo sucks, but right now I'm focused on ensuing the guy who wants to basically outlaw the existence of family and friends and attack us doesn't gain power, and given that he wants to accelerate the Israeli genocide and is basically in light with Bibi its the one I'm pushing for, priorities are kinda focused on self-survival.

CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 17:32 on Jun 4, 2024

PurpleXVI
Oct 30, 2011

Spewing insults, pissing off all your neighbors, betraying your allies, backing out of treaties and accords, and generally screwing over the global environment?
ALL PART OF MY BRILLIANT STRATEGY!
I can absolutely understand people who check out entirely because they think the entire thing is hosed, but I can also understand people who still make a choice because one of the options is distinctly worse than the other, and they'd like the less bad one that's less likely to get people they know and care about killed.

Godholio
Aug 28, 2002

Does a bear split in the woods near Zheleznogorsk?
Both groups of people are hosed, because the worst option of all is the one we're heading for.

McNally
Sep 13, 2007

Ask me about Proposition 305


Do you like muskets?

Proud Christian Mom posted:

Jesus this really is what you freaks are gonna hang your hat on isn't it

This is not being excellent.

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Alchenar
Apr 9, 2008

As a representative someone who doesn't have a hat to hang but who lives in the world and would like things to get better for everyone, 'let the far right burn the world down out of spite' is not the kind of thing that gives me warm feelings at night.

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