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PurpleXVI
Oct 30, 2011

Spewing insults, pissing off all your neighbors, betraying your allies, backing out of treaties and accords, and generally screwing over the global environment?
ALL PART OF MY BRILLIANT STRATEGY!

Alchenar posted:

Hmm, I don't buy the specific line of argument in bold. The laws of war apply to all parties equally all the time. That means that one sides perfidy does not excuse another's - although one of the reasons for the prohibition is the corrosive effect that initial employment encourages reciprocal measures.

Legally, maybe, but a rebel movement against an occupying power that doesn't make use of "illegal" means to stay hidden among the local populace, etc. is a rebel movement that isn't going to exist for long. Especially in an area as relatively small as Gaza where, really, there aren't any places they COULD set up camp that aren't practically right next to people or so obvious they'll be bombed within the hour. While it would be great if every movement trying to fight for its freedom to not be genocided wore clearly marked uniforms to make them lawful combatants and made sure their weapons were always visible, in my mind it's a fact that to some extent you need the upper hand(or at least a relatively peer/near-peer conflict) to have the luxury of acting purely within the laws of war.

It obviously doesn't apply to every rule, it's not all of them that yield some sort of advantage to break(and some of them are deeply self-destructive in most conflicts at least in the longer term if you break them), but in my opinion there are some of them that no underdog freedom fighter/rebellion could ever follow without immediately getting vaporized.

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PurpleXVI
Oct 30, 2011

Spewing insults, pissing off all your neighbors, betraying your allies, backing out of treaties and accords, and generally screwing over the global environment?
ALL PART OF MY BRILLIANT STRATEGY!
https://thecradle.co/articles-id/25347

quote:

Troops hid inside aid truck for deadly US-Israel operation in Nuseirat

The Palestinian resistance called the operation a 'complex war crime' and reported that the Israeli army killed a number of their remaining captives during a massacre that left over 200 dead

I'm not familiar with "The Cradle" so I'm not sure how reliable they generally are, but this seems decently sourced.

psydude
Apr 1, 2008

PurpleXVI posted:

https://thecradle.co/articles-id/25347

I'm not familiar with "The Cradle" so I'm not sure how reliable they generally are, but this seems decently sourced.

Well, considering this is one of their investigative reports...

https://thecradle.co/articles/abu-musab-al-zarqawi-notorious-terrorist-or-american-agent

Alchenar
Apr 9, 2008

https://www.israelhayom.com/2024/06/06/rescue-operation-made-possible-by-special-decoy-truck/

Other details. The furniture truck bit is worked so it's probably re-reporting of the above, but the extra detail of the Op going after two locations simultaneously and one of the vehicles being damaged and needing rescuing puts a bit of colour on what actually happened.

Cugel the Clever
Apr 5, 2009
I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA
Has there been an official, public recounting of how 7 Oct was incompetently enabled yet? It pisses me off that even pro-Israel liberals will cast Israel's actions in Gaza as "existential" for Israel, when they could literally just walk back to the border and never be at risk of the same level of attack if they simply monitored it properly.

Whether it's a simple, automatic "hey, our monitoring systems are suddenly down, max alert until resolved" or even just some dumb grunt sitting at a desk watching feeds from the border, ready to press a comical, red "ALERT!!" button, there's zero reason the entire border guard should be caught literally in their underwear again.

Herstory Begins Now
Aug 5, 2003

It's not an official public accounting but fwiw 972, which has good connections within Israel's security and intelligence community, did a bunch of good and quite damning reporting on that topic (including several lengthy pieces from whistleblowers who'd essentially been shouting at anyone who would listen that Hamas was very obviously preparing something major) that is very much worth reading.

Cythereal
Nov 8, 2009

I love the potoo,
and the potoo loves you.
https://x.com/HamzaMSyed/status/1800876572083445984

UN report has concluded that the Israeli military is consciously employing sexual violence against Palestinian civilians as established procedures.

ThisIsJohnWayne
Feb 23, 2007
Ooo! Look at me! NO DON'T LOOK AT ME!



Cythereal posted:

https://x.com/HamzaMSyed/status/1800876572083445984

UN report has concluded that the Israeli military is consciously employing sexual violence against Palestinian civilians as established procedures.

Reading the tweet, the sexual violence as apparent policy is forcing arab men and boys to be naked in public and taking photos. Sounds a lot like your average cop's interpretation of strip searching a black man don't it

Lovely Joe Stalin
Jun 12, 2007

Our Lovely Wang
There's also that thing where in the camps they're sending all the Gazan males they don't outright kill, they are sitting them on a chair with a metal rod that goes up their arse and delivers electricity. Not sure if that's in that report, it only made the news a few days ago.

War Boi
Nov 1, 2021
After I first read about the electric dildo chair, I sincerely crack pinged.

I then did what all high functioning morons do and promptly brain wiped that poo poo so that I could go about my day.

Ring a ding ding, crack and ping again, baby. :stare:

Kith
Sep 17, 2009

You never learn anything
by doing it right.


the pictures thread in d&d has a subtitle of "omg they wrote down the racism policy"

i cannot loving believe it has been topped by "omg they wrote down the sexual assault policy"

Potato Salad
Oct 23, 2014

nobody cares


PurpleXVI posted:

For instance, freeing the hostages? Just stop the war crimes and release your political prisoners. Boom. You've got them back.

The same goes for the security guarantee that the Israeli State could buy for itself and its people right now: stop being a racial apartheid and enjoy the resultant durable peace. Peace is right there on the shelf, available for the stunningly low price of not continuing Holocaust 2.

Potato Salad
Oct 23, 2014

nobody cares


Cythereal posted:

https://x.com/HamzaMSyed/status/1800876572083445984

UN report has concluded that the Israeli military is consciously employing sexual violence against Palestinian civilians as established procedures.

Call your senators. I dunno man. Just don't stop calling.

BrutalistMcDonalds
Oct 4, 2012


Lipstick Apathy

Cugel the Clever posted:

Has there been an official, public recounting of how 7 Oct was incompetently enabled yet? It pisses me off that even pro-Israel liberals will cast Israel's actions in Gaza as "existential" for Israel, when they could literally just walk back to the border and never be at risk of the same level of attack if they simply monitored it properly.

Whether it's a simple, automatic "hey, our monitoring systems are suddenly down, max alert until resolved" or even just some dumb grunt sitting at a desk watching feeds from the border, ready to press a comical, red "ALERT!!" button, there's zero reason the entire border guard should be caught literally in their underwear again.
Israel's problem is they got so addicted to technology that they forgot to actually put a bunch of grunts on the ground to swing into action when everything falls apart from an extremely competent multi-front assault across the border on all sensors. Once the sensors got knocked out, there were no grunts, no simple soldiers, and no battalions. They thought technology would solve all problems because they had success in intercepting rockets and hacking Iran's nuclear centrifuges. They are extremely competent at some of that but they didn't notice a giant hole right in the middle of it all.

BrutalistMcDonalds
Oct 4, 2012


Lipstick Apathy
Some of you guys were in the infantry! You were the guys who were supposed to fight the battle when the enemy surprises you. You have tanks but when was the last time the U.S. Army fought a tank war? Thirty years ago in the Persian Gulf War. But those insurgents didn't attack you with tanks but with IEDs in those soft Humvees.

Cugel the Clever
Apr 5, 2009
I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA

BrutalistMcDonalds posted:

Israel's problem is they got so addicted to technology that they forgot to actually put a bunch of grunts on the ground to swing into action when everything falls apart from an extremely competent multi-front assault across the border on all sensors. Once the sensors got knocked out, there were no grunts, no simple soldiers, and no battalions. They thought technology would solve all problems because they had success in intercepting rockets and hacking Iran's nuclear centrifuges. They are extremely competent at some of that but they didn't notice a giant hole right in the middle of it all.
All the dead and captured IDF soldiers in border outposts would disagree that they weren't there on the ground. They just weren't competent.

BrutalistMcDonalds
Oct 4, 2012


Lipstick Apathy

Cugel the Clever posted:

All the dead and captured IDF soldiers in border outposts would disagree that they weren't there on the ground. They just weren't competent.
Well I think in the near-term future the IDF is going to have a lot more troops along the border.

Count Roland
Oct 6, 2013

Cugel the Clever posted:

All the dead and captured IDF soldiers in border outposts would disagree that they weren't there on the ground. They just weren't competent.

There also weren't enough of them for the scale of the attack. Also intelligence, support, most of the IDF being stationed in the north etc. I imagine lots of different problems contributed to Israel's awful spring on Oct 7.

Proud Christian Mom
Dec 20, 2006
READING COMPREHENSION IS HARD

Cythereal posted:

https://x.com/HamzaMSyed/status/1800876572083445984

UN report has concluded that the Israeli military is consciously employing sexual violence against Palestinian civilians as established procedures.

every zionist accusation is a confession part 92487568

Proud Christian Mom fucked around with this message at 16:52 on Jun 18, 2024

Cugel the Clever
Apr 5, 2009
I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA
I believe the title was, "Hamas Determined to Attack Inside Israel."
https://m.jpost.com/israel-hamas-war/article-806634#google_vignette

quote:

The IDF had precise information about Hamas's intentions, but due to prevailing conceptions in the security establishment and possible negligence by officials, the warning signs were not acted on.
A newly surfaced document has revealed that the Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) and intelligence systems had detailed knowledge of Hamas's plan to raid Israel and kidnap 250 people weeks before the October 7 massacre.

The document, which was compiled in the Gaza Division, outlined Hamas's intentions and was known to top intelligence officials, according to a report by Kan News.

The document, titled "Detailed End-to-End Raid Training," was distributed on September 19, 2023, and described in detail the series of exercises conducted by Hamas's elite units.

These exercises included raiding military posts and kibbutzim (collective communities in Israel), kidnapping soldiers and civilians, and maintaining the hostages once they were in the Gaza Strip.

Nick Soapdish
Apr 27, 2008


https://x.com/kylieatwood/status/1803832838308905300?t=Eut3SZMHSE3NMKz91nMzNw&s=19

To be as delusional as the Israelis. Does leadership not remember 2006, I am sure LH and other militia groups have been doing nothing since then

Comrade Blyatlov
Aug 4, 2007


should have picked four fingers





Did Israel specifically say blitzkrieg? That's.... certainly a choice of words

madeintaipei
Jul 13, 2012

Comrade Blyatlov posted:

Did Israel specifically say blitzkrieg? That's.... certainly a choice of words

Reading the article, blitzkrieg is in parentheses. As a word to encompass a strategy of maneuver to envelop and vanquish an enemy, it works well enough for media consumption. As a description of what the IDF is able to do with what the rest of the article implies? How much more blitz and/or krieg do they have left? If the article is to be believed, the US and Israel think that Hezbollah has stockpiled a huge number of precision guided munitions to the point that any greater escalation of war in the region would hazard overwhelming IDF missile defenses.

Which, sure. But these motherfuckers, 1. Haven't been able to apply that strategy to as small of a place as the Gaza Strip, and 2. Haven't caused enough damage, death, and misery thereby to get Hezbollah to attack effectively within Israel's borders.

The thrust of the article is that Iron Dome could be overwhelmed if Hezbollah gets serious and starts really firing poo poo off. That... hasn't happened. Who starts that ball rolling? Hezbollah reacts to what has already happened, Israel pays, then flattens hundred of square miles of homes when Hezbollah can't retaliate to that because they blew their wad? Israel acts, Hezbollah pays, Israel flattens hundreds of square miles of homes, then Hezbollah retaliates, gets more poo poo flattened, and runs out of ammo. Maybe, maybe not, to all of that.

PurpleXVI
Oct 30, 2011

Spewing insults, pissing off all your neighbors, betraying your allies, backing out of treaties and accords, and generally screwing over the global environment?
ALL PART OF MY BRILLIANT STRATEGY!
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/6/20/israeli-military-spokesmans-hamas-defeat-remarks-widen-rift-with-netanyahu

quote:

Israeli military spokesman’s Hamas defeat remarks widen rift with Netanyahu

Daniel Hagari goes against Netanyahu by saying that identifying the impossible task of defeating Hamas as Israel’s end goal in Gaza means ‘throwing sand in people’s eyes’.

...

“This business of destroying Hamas, making Hamas disappear – it’s simply throwing sand in the eyes of the public,” he said. “Hamas is an idea, Hamas is a party. It’s rooted in the hearts of the people – whoever thinks we can eliminate Hamas is wrong.”

Reporting from Amman, Jordan, Al Jazeera’s Hamdah Salhut said Netanyahu’s office was “fuming” at Hagari’s remarks.

Always a sign of a sane and stable state when the military and civilian leaderships are yelling at each other and loudly disagreeing in public.

Herstory Begins Now
Aug 5, 2003

hezbullah actually has a lot of missiles and indeed has been building their stocks for literally decades. hell they traded their involvement in syria for missiles and the recurring Israeli strikes you have likely heard about in Syria over the last decade have primarily been of missile shipments headed to lebanon.

Israel's military planning is really deeply steeped in an incredible level of over-estimation of their own abilities and a profound underestimation of their opponents and indeed that's one of the defining, recurring themes of every Israeli military adventure. Everything that can't be solved with airpower they turn into a huge clusterfuck.

as an aside, this is some interesting reading and it's just scathing. hard to read that and not wonder if anything at all has changed

https://www.armyupress.army.mil/Portals/7/combat-studies-institute/csi-books/we-were-caught-unprepared.pdf

pantslesswithwolves
Oct 28, 2008

Israel vs. Hezbollah would make Israel vs. Hamas look like two guys yelling at each other over a parking space by comparison.

Hezbollah has been rearming since 2006 and eclipsed its stockpiles of rockets and missiles held at the beginning of the last war within a few years of its end. It sent fighters into Syria in 2013, and I’d bet a lot of the guys who fought there and came back are now at least in mid-level tactical leadership positions.

They’ve had the benefit of watching how the IDF fought in Gaza over several rounds before this one, and have probably been fed intel and data by Iran as well.

Hezbollah isn’t an existential threat to Israel. This would be another dumb war of choice launched by Israel, but one that would likely see a lot of damage to northern Israel, including Haifa, and likely Hezbollah taking and probably holding territory for at least a few days-a propaganda coup way bigger than surprising the IDF on October 7.

Cugel the Clever
Apr 5, 2009
I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA
The "Are we the baddies?" moments keep coming.

quote:

JERUSALEM, June 22 (Reuters) - Israeli army forces strapped a wounded Palestinian man to the hood of a military jeep during an arrest raid in the occupied West Bank city of Jenin on Saturday.

A video circulating on social media and verified by Reuters showed a Palestinian resident of Jenin, Mujahed Azmi, on the jeep that passes through two ambulances.

The Israeli military in a statement said Israeli forces were fired at and exchanged fire, wounding a suspect and apprehending him.

Soldiers then violated military protocol, the statement said. "The suspect was taken by the forces while tied on top of a vehicle," it said.

The military said the "conduct of the forces in the video of the incident does not conform to the values" of the Israeli military and that the incident will be investigated and dealt with.

Count Roland
Oct 6, 2013

This is far from the first time that's happened

Mustang
Jun 18, 2006

“We don’t really know where this goes — and I’m not sure we really care.”
Stolen Palestinian land in the West Bank was being sold at a "real estate" event at a LA Synagogue and pro-Palestinian protestors showed up and were massively outnumbered by the violent pro-genocide crowd. As is typical in our wretched country, protesting genocide=antisemitism.

Now remember, we must do all our part to save democracy and vote for Genocide Joe in November!



Supporting genocide seems to be the hill that Biden and the Democrats want to die on.

It's clear as day to me: Joe doesn't want my vote.


Violence Erupts at Protest Outside Adas Torah Synagogue in Pico Robertson posted:

Seven Reporters Attacked, Protesters Bear Sprayed, Chaos in West LA

Violence broke out at a protest at the Adas Torah Synagogue in the Pico Robertson district. The Palestinian Youth Movement organized the protest to object to a sale of Palestinian land scheduled to take place at the Synagogue. A report from the Times of Israel confirmed the real estate sale was to take place at Adas Torah on Sunday, June 23. Such sales are illegal under international law.

Not long after the beginning of the protest at 12:00, a large group of pro-Israeli counter-protesters arrived, and things first got tense, and then violence erupted. The LAPD was there but did little to check the violence.

The protest and attacks went on for several hours, so it is impossible to show you the entire incident, but here are some videos showing many disturbing things that took place. Be aware that these videos and photographs from the reporters who were there contain scenes of violence, blood, profanity, and other distressing content.


Anger began to rise.


Then chaos erupted, with multiple assaults happening all over Pico Boulevard.

One of the men who was at the attack on the UCLA encampment bear-sprayed at least two people during the time when the pro-Isreali counter-protesters were chasing the protesters down side streets.


Seven reporters were attacked, and the phones of three of the reporters were stolen. Two were recovered, but Sergio Olmos of Cal Matters lost his for good. The reporter in this video is Sean Beckner-Carmitchel, also known as A Cat With News on Twitter, and he was attacked and punched while trying to get his phone back.


A rabbi had been doing his best to keep the peace, but the pro-Israeli counter-protesters grabbed his kippah off of his head, and protesters and the reporter had to admonish them for disrespecting a rabbi.


Some outlets are spreading disinformation. In this video, a man with long hair is being held down, but Los Angeles Magazine reposted the video, claiming that it showed a Jewish woman being beaten without checking on the accuracy of the statement. It was not true.


This is the man who was on the ground and had reportedly shoved reporter Kate Burns, who took this video.


The man appears to be doing the Seig Heil gesture in this photo.


This is the video of Kate Burns’ phone being stolen by a counter-protester. At the end of the video, she recovers her phone and asks nearby LAPD officers for help, and they ignore her.


Finally, a disturbing incident of racism reared its head during the latter part of the protest when a counter-protester used a variation of the N-word as a slur against Arab people. Please be aware that this video contains the use of that slur. The video is not embedded because of the use of that slur.

https://westsidetoday.com/2024/06/24/violence-erupts-at-protest-outside-adas-torah-synagogue-in-pico-robertson/

OMFG PTSD LOL PBUH
Sep 9, 2001
I'm leaving I/P alone for a while.

OMFG PTSD LOL PBUH fucked around with this message at 21:38 on Jun 24, 2024

god please help me
Jul 9, 2018
I LOVE GIVING MY TAX MONEY AND MY PERSONAL INCOME TO UKRAINE, SLAVA

Mustang posted:

It's clear as day to me: Joe doesn't want my vote.

It's not very gucci that 90% of your interest in the I/P conflict comes down to using it as a cudgel in the US elections.

Mustang
Jun 18, 2006

“We don’t really know where this goes — and I’m not sure we really care.”
Are you aware that Joe Biden is actively supporting a genocide while campaigning for re-election as President of the United States?

Midjack
Dec 24, 2007



Mustang posted:

Are you aware that Joe Biden is actively supporting a genocide while campaigning for re-election as President of the United States?

You know I think I read that somewhere, yeah.

McNally
Sep 13, 2007

Ask me about Proposition 305


Do you like muskets?
Take it to the election thread please

pantslesswithwolves
Oct 28, 2008

How is it legal to sell someone else’s land in another country anywhere in the US, let alone at a religious site?

facialimpediment
Feb 11, 2005

as the world turns

pantslesswithwolves posted:

How is it legal to sell someone else’s land in another country anywhere in the US, let alone at a religious site?

To stick with the event in question:

https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/24/us/los-angeles-synagogue-palestinian-israeli-protest-violence/index.html

quote:

The protest stemmed from an Israel real estate event on Sunday at the Adas Torah synagogue, according to the synagogue’s security director and social media posts from organizers.

The event at the synagogue was promoted by a firm called My Home in Israel Real Estate, a group that has helped to facilitate marketing events for potential property sales in Israel and the West Bank to Jewish Americans. CNN has reached out to the group for comment.

These chucklefucks (the real estate group) apparently did the same thing in March in New Jersey and appear to be tagging up with others to sell poo poo. Sources are sketchy-ish on a lot of that stuff, took me a while to find an American source with any details on these people.

I don't know enough about the specific regions where they're selling, but I can sure guess that the West Bank properties probably won't be on the up and up. For as lovely and genocidey as the Israelis are being in Gaza, the vile poo poo settlers are doing in the West Bank isn't getting as much coverage.

facialimpediment fucked around with this message at 00:30 on Jun 25, 2024

Midjack
Dec 24, 2007



So it's the same scam as the name a star and lunar real estate deals. Excellent.

Suicide Watch
Sep 8, 2009

pantslesswithwolves posted:

How is it legal to sell someone else’s land in another country anywhere in the US, let alone at a religious site?

I have a bridge to sell you...

pantslesswithwolves
Oct 28, 2008

Suicide Watch posted:

I have a bridge to sell you...

If it’s not the Allenby Bridge, I’m not interested.

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Comrade Blyatlov
Aug 4, 2007


should have picked four fingers





Suicide Watch posted:

I have a bridge to sell you...

Go on

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