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A.o.D.
Jan 15, 2006

M_Gargantua posted:

He's not wrong.

Remember that time Musk unbanned Trump from his media platform to toady up to him and then Trump simply didn't come back?


That was, and continues to be, fun.

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A.o.D.
Jan 15, 2006

This really should be in the OP set to autoplay

A.o.D.
Jan 15, 2006

bulletsponge13 posted:

It doesn't change their deaths, but allowing a false narrative on atrocities breeds more atrocities.

Is it a false narrative?

A.o.D.
Jan 15, 2006

Mustang posted:

Israel killing Americans with impunity isn't anything new.

It's pathetic how we fork over billions to them and consider them an "ally" in any capacity.

We do the same poo poo with the Saudis. Utility to the regime is all that matters.

A.o.D.
Jan 15, 2006

Lemniscate Blue posted:

It's not very applicable to this particular video but please be aware that MEMRI has a history of being very biased in their translation decisions to the point of being deliberately misleading at times: https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/middle-east-media-research-institute-memri/

It has led to some delightful Khemri TV memes, however.

A.o.D.
Jan 15, 2006

Comrade Blyatlov posted:

Wtf does Settra have to do with this

A.o.D.
Jan 15, 2006
Pretend I'm mad max and I'm pointing and saying "That's a police state."

A.o.D.
Jan 15, 2006

FrozenVent posted:

How are they getting SRBM into Gaza? I thought IsraŽl had the place tightly locked down.

Iím not doubting it, just curious about the mechanics of it from a professional viewpoint.

Tunnels of a complexity that would make a Mexican cartel lord nod with approval, allegedly.

A.o.D.
Jan 15, 2006
https://twitter.com/OAlexanderDK/status/1714526575058645290

Allegedly, this is footage from the same site from both Israel and Hamas. This doesn't necessarily absolve Israel of culpability, but that is NOT the kind of damage you see from the ordnance we've seen Israel employ so far. That's not bomb damage.

A.o.D.
Jan 15, 2006

Kchama posted:

What DOES fit that is the question.

I'm going to keep on doing what I've been doing, which is understand that both sides have demonstrated a callous disregard for civilian casualties and a willingness to spin any narrative out of whole cloth, and not jump to conclusions. That I'm willing to accept those images as possibly/probably true is that both sides have published what strongly seem to be different angles of the same location, each using that image to their own end. I'm not going to accept any pro-Israeli or pro-Hamas outlet at face value.

I COULD scream at a stranger about what I think is true, but instead I'm going to await more evidence and maybe eventually draw a conclusion.

RandomPauI posted:

It seems to fit a theory that something blew up the oxygen tanks outside the building causing a massive fire ball. That still raises the question of what could have blown them up though

loving anything, to include a guy taking a smoke break if conditions are right. Oxygen tanks are great at fireballing or contributing mightily to fireballs. As far as I'm concerned, these photos only place a constraint on the upper limit of what could have caused the explosion/conflagration (i.e. definitely not a JDAM), not on who did it.

edit: Another photo, possibly of an impact crater. Still not a JDAM. Maybe a mortar or small rocket? Again, this doesn't prove a drat thing. It's not like how there were photos of an ATACMS core in Ukraine.

https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/1714587746612740278

A.o.D. fucked around with this message at 12:04 on Oct 18, 2023

A.o.D.
Jan 15, 2006
Anyone who has been posting that one side or the other definitely did this needs to pause for a moment and reevaluate their biases. There are, imo, valid reasons for wanting to back one side or the other, and demonization is nearly obligatory if you have a side in this conflict. This isn't the Hamas thread or the IDF thread, though. Hopefully we can get a little more factual in here.

A.o.D.
Jan 15, 2006

kill me now posted:

JDAM's can be set to airburst FYI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYApLv6kJnA

The crater size is hardly the smoking gun that it was a Hamas or IJ rocket misfire.

The fact that the cars and surrounding buildings weren't completely shredded, however, is a mark against the cause being a JDAM.


So damned predictable.

A.o.D.
Jan 15, 2006
When did they say they did it?

A.o.D.
Jan 15, 2006
Knock it off. That's the opposite of escalatory.

A.o.D.
Jan 15, 2006

PurpleXVI posted:

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1829092/Erdogan-Turkey-Israel-war-Gaza

On the one hand, I'm happy that someone is actually standing up for the Palestinians and he's saying a lot of true things. On the other hand, Turkey has so many other war crimes to their name that I was neither expecting them nor given any particular feeling that they'd lessen the war crimes going on.

On the third mutant hand growing out of my abdomen, there's no way he's serious, right? I mean he's an unstable weirdo, but there's not a chance in hell and this just has to be blowhard bullshit for domestic consumption... right?

He's also saying a bunch of false things. Hamas are in no way freedom fighters. There are or were Palestinian organizations that could be called freedom fighters, but Hamas isn't that. This isn't just a "one man's terrorist is another's freedom fighter" either. They don't even wait to have control to enact systemic repressions. But yeah, this is 100% self serving on the part of Erdogan. Anything to shore up his popularity and distract from the crumbling economic situation at home.

A.o.D.
Jan 15, 2006
Rushing tanks with infantry is kind of a binary state.

Either it's a surefire way to get all your soldiers killed, or it's the best way to annihilate every tank in a formation. It's so situationally dependent on terrain, troop quality, training, and disposition that I don't want to make a generalization on when it's a good idea to bum rush a tank.

A.o.D.
Jan 15, 2006

Just Another Lurker posted:

Only just out today: Perun has done a vid on Iran's Military Strategy & Power Projection https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cy95hMoMhrY as is normal with his vids it's heavy on Power Point with still pictures of weapons & graphs.

At this point it should just be assumed that Perun videos are going to be powerpoints using the Halloween color palette.

A.o.D.
Jan 15, 2006

Just Another Lurker posted:

I'm not military but am wary of posting things here that may be construed as :nms: :nws: to those not familiar with the lad. :kiddo:

Perun's content to date have been pretty universally safe for all potential outlets and consumers. His presentation is fairly heavily sanitized and clinical.

A.o.D.
Jan 15, 2006

I would hope that it wasn't the Ballistic version.

A.o.D.
Jan 15, 2006

That seems fishy to me.

A.o.D.
Jan 15, 2006

Tangy Zizzle posted:

US abstained on a Security Council ruling against Israel today, so you know things are going good

That's a warning shot to Israel.

A.o.D.
Jan 15, 2006
One effect of these recent wars is that if you don't get very media savvy, or at least very cautious about what you repeat, You're going to get owned repeatedly by disinformation.

A.o.D.
Jan 15, 2006

psydude posted:

It's tough. I avoid videos on Reddit and try to stick to reputable news outlets, but poo poo still slips by.

I got got by someone stealing a video of a lava flow filling a caldera and overflowing its banks just a few days ago purporting to be a video of something going on in Iceland. The person wasn't pushing any agenda, just chasing clout, and I let my guard down. The video was real in that it was a real volcano, but it was a misrepresentation.

A.o.D.
Jan 15, 2006

Discussion Quorum posted:

So if you make the mistake of visiting Twitter, you will find a few different flavors, chief among them:
1) The civilian deaths are exaggerated or outright fabrication; or,
2) IDF caused the civilian casualties blind firing in a panic (like, not just some of them, but all of them)

e: to clarify, nobody is claiming that 10/7 didn't happen, but there is a concerted narrative effort that denies Hamas/PIJ committed murder and other atrocities against civilians

It's cut from the same cloth as the "Pallywood" accusations that Hamas is faking all the civilian casualties. My side is good, therefore any accusations must be lies and any proof is fake.

I do understand doubt around the more lurid stories. I remember after Katrina there were all sorts of stories about beastly survivors minorities committing all sorts of heinous acts at the Superdome. The Superintendint (NO police chief) held a press conference where he tearfully declared "they raped a baby, man!" (No babies were raped and people were frustrated but otherwise chill, meanwhile the NOPD and white homeowners used the stories to justify shooting black people left and right)

Just to be clear, the cops were loving monsters during and after Katrina. I should not know what a 'ham sandwich' is beyond a struggle lunch.

A.o.D.
Jan 15, 2006

Al-Saqr posted:

the boat is owned by an israeli company, they're the ones who are gonna be hosed with the insurance/replacement bill. at this point anything to harm israeli economy is a legitimate tactic to stop the genocide.

3.5 million dollar tank destroyed by a 200 dollar munition placed by hand.

At no point in that video do I see a destroyed tank. I do see what I presume is a very brave palestinian fighter.

A.o.D.
Jan 15, 2006

psydude posted:

Very informative post, thanks for this. It reminds me a bit of how US commercial real estate works in terms of the complete division of ownership vs. management vs. tenants.

General follow-up question: if this were a US-flagged vessel, I'm assuming it would have prompted the US navy (which currently has some ships in the Red Sea) to respond, particularly since the Houthis aren't considered the legitimate government of Yemen by the US and its allies in the region. Is it fair to say, then, that one of the drawbacks of using a flag of convenience is that you're basically on your own if someone decides to hijack your ship (in the sense that most countries with this scheme barely have coast guards, let alone navies)?

US flagged independent international shipping is a thing that basically doesn't exist. If you see a US ship working in international waters, it's going to be USN, USNS, part of some oceanographic agency, or working a USN contract. So unless a hijacker manages to somehow find the rare unicorn that isn't under that category, yeah, you can bet there's going to be a meaningful armed response from the US if one of our flagged ships gets attacked.

Furthermore, DOD has identified the lack of US flagged international shipping as a strategic vulnerability. It would be in the Navy's best interest to safeguard what little we have left.

A.o.D.
Jan 15, 2006

Alchenar posted:

When you seize a ship flying the Nassau flag and there's not even any rum or molasses on board

Let's hope that they weren't looking for the third leg of the triangle.

A.o.D.
Jan 15, 2006

psydude posted:

Does the uncut footage show any actual BDA? It's really hard to assess any effect on the vehicle, which has been the case for all of these propaganda videos.

I almost never see any BDA in hamas videos. It's either deliberate because they're not getting the results they want or they don't know what they're doing, and their videos are too slickly produced for incompetence to be a credible factor.

A.o.D.
Jan 15, 2006
It's an HPGG

Hand Patted Guided Grenade

A.o.D.
Jan 15, 2006

Quackles posted:

TLDR: Puritans

Never forget that they were quite literally Oliver Cromwell's kinfolk.

BrutalistMcDonalds posted:

The aesthetic I get from the Hamas videos is more like a Steven Seagal movie where they try to make it look cool by speeding it up really fast:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7VdAD7eNDk

It's cheap and stupid but entertaining. Israeli propaganda is more like a big corporation. They spend a lot of money and literally hire big companies in the advertising business to sell Israel to Americans, but it comes across as evil to people, or there's something "not quite right" about it because of the way it's produced.

I think Hamas could benefit by studying Ukraine's propaganda more closely.

A.o.D.
Jan 15, 2006

Grand Fromage posted:

How much leverage does the US have on Israel really? I get the US supplies a lot of money and weapons but would it cripple Israel's military if they stopped? I get the impression a lot of people vastly overstate the US' influence over Israeli policy, I don't actually know enough about it though. It just kinda smells like the people who think the US secretly controls the world and everything that happens is a CIA op, so Biden could press the "no genocide" button any time.

I think the biggest lever the US owns is the security council veto. I believe that the recent abstention was a warning shot to Israel that our attitude was shifting on their actions in Gaza.

A.o.D.
Jan 15, 2006

Cugel the Clever posted:

So is the assertion that the majority of those Israelis killed at the festival were sitting idly in their cars in the parking lot?

Where was that said in the last 41 pages of posts?

A.o.D.
Jan 15, 2006

BUUNNI posted:

Really weird that the NYPD keeps sending their officers to Israel to learn so much about their vaunted technology. Iím sure itís no big deal.

https://gothamist.com/news/mayor-adams-nypd-officials-tour-israels-national-police-academy-to-review-drone-technology

They sincerely refer to themselves as the 7th largest standing army in the world. Their intentions are very clear.

A.o.D.
Jan 15, 2006

Fivemarks posted:

We really quibbling about how bad Israel's racism is now? Gonna Kissinger on about "no, no, what Israel is doing to the non white jews isn't bad because it could be worse," huh? "Oh they're not sterilizing the black jews, they're just trying to forcibly control their breeding, unknowingly decreasing their fertility, and making it official policy that they can't donate blood because they're unclean."

What the gently caress.

Or maybe there's no need to inflate how bad a crime is when simply acknowledging what actually happened is bad enough?

A.o.D.
Jan 15, 2006

Fivemarks posted:

Unknowingly forcing women to take a Contraceptive when they aren't aware of the side effects counts as some hosed up bad poo poo. I'm opposed to the attempt to say that it's not as bad by quibbling on precise definitions. This is hosed up, and is absolutely a sign of "Israel is an Ethnostate, where even Jews who aren't the right kind of jews aren't welcome."

I mean, though, this isn't any different, and isn't as bad, as the poo poo that the US has done to its black population. I don't think Israel's tested syphillis on its Ethiopian population.

Israel is an ethnostate, and they are attempting a genocide of the Palestinians at the moment. I'm very comfortable with that statement. The treatment of the African jewish population was an abomination, but a knowing effort to sterilize a population is also a form of genocide. I'm not quite at the point where I'm willing to endorse a statement that the Israeli state attempted genocide on another Jewish population.

A.o.D.
Jan 15, 2006
How about some, if it's a sincere statement, legitimately good news on the periphery of this conflict?

https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/02/politics/harris-cop28-israel-gaza/index.html

A.o.D.
Jan 15, 2006

PurpleXVI posted:

Well, at least the US is sharpening their rhetoric. But I feel like what's missing here is a consequence for Israel violating these US red lines.

I think the US has already communicated what that consequence is by their earlier abstention in the Security Council.

A.o.D.
Jan 15, 2006

PurpleXVI posted:

https://apnews.com/article/red-sea-houthi-yemen-ships-attack-israel-hamas-war-gaza-strip-716770f0a780160e9abed98d3c48fbde

According to the US Navy, the Houthis have now taken pot shots at their ships, not just passing commercial ships.

Does that mean it's time to buy Raytheon stock?

A.o.D.
Jan 15, 2006
There are a few people who are justifiably upset and frustrated about a dire situation they feel powerless to change. I think that feeling might be causing them to lash out.

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A.o.D.
Jan 15, 2006

Fivemarks posted:

Are we talking about posters in this thread, or why people in Gaza might join and support Hamas?

Indeed.

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