In Want of a WIFOA - A Ridiculously Overcomplicated Jane Austen Mafia Game

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Trad Games > The Game Room > In Want of a WIFOA - A Ridiculously Overcomplicated Jane Austen Mafia Game

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CubicalSucrose: Jan 1, 2013; Phantom my Opera and call me South Park: Bigger, Longer, & Uncut

wologar posted:

Ok, fine.

Didn't read, signing up.

# ¿ Oct 18, 2023 19:55

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# ¿ May 19, 2025 09:01

CubicalSucrose: Jan 1, 2013; Phantom my Opera and call me South Park: Bigger, Longer, & Uncut

Tired Moritz posted:

I'm relying on some of you young sirs and madams to spreadsheet everything for me

Pretty sure we should all full-claim today because this setup is much more scum-favored vs prior WIFOAs (at least vs the one I referenced when I was trying to understand the vote/draft system).

I threw this spreadsheet together while I was deciding which numbers to submit.

NOTE: Discord-hosted image links (like this one) expire approximately 24hrs after they were copied from Discord.

I wanted to pick like 3rd or 4th but that didn't work.

Grandi is NOT the Gossiping Voyeur, someone else is. Someone (not me) is a Jailer but I can't narrow it down any more than that.

# ¿ Oct 26, 2023 18:29

CubicalSucrose: Jan 1, 2013; Phantom my Opera and call me South Park: Bigger, Longer, & Uncut

The record should reflect that I submitted 1, 1 before YPM's post about cowardice.

# ¿ Oct 26, 2023 18:30

CubicalSucrose: Jan 1, 2013; Phantom my Opera and call me South Park: Bigger, Longer, & Uncut

Also someone please keep track of flavor stuff and call it out when they see it because I don't know much about the source material.

# ¿ Oct 26, 2023 18:39

CubicalSucrose: Jan 1, 2013; Phantom my Opera and call me South Park: Bigger, Longer, & Uncut

The WIFOA is strong.

But also I haven't claimed Vanilla.

# ¿ Oct 26, 2023 20:36

CubicalSucrose: Jan 1, 2013; Phantom my Opera and call me South Park: Bigger, Longer, & Uncut

Messenger / result stealer is in the game.

# ¿ Oct 26, 2023 21:23

CubicalSucrose: Jan 1, 2013; Phantom my Opera and call me South Park: Bigger, Longer, & Uncut

Johnny Keats posted:

How did nobody above me pick roleblocker/charging vig? That's crazy

Probably fishing. But funny fishing.

# ¿ Oct 26, 2023 21:53

CubicalSucrose: Jan 1, 2013; Phantom my Opera and call me South Park: Bigger, Longer, & Uncut

Ignatius M. Meen posted:

code:

classic wifoa outcome

code:

COWARDICE

Grandi is one of three confirmed non-cowards, actually.

# ¿ Oct 26, 2023 22:31

CubicalSucrose: Jan 1, 2013; Phantom my Opera and call me South Park: Bigger, Longer, & Uncut

Okay so here's the earlier WIFOA game I had found - https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=4023765

Note a few differences with this one:
1) Scum did NOT get to coordinate roles in that game, but DID this game. So they should have a bunch of extra info not about what roles exist, but about who has them.
2) In that game, the role availability was vague, similar to Cookfia, rather than it being reasonably-clear what each role does.

Claiming early is usually really bad for a bunch of reasons, but many (most?) of those don't actually apply to this mostly-open-setup game.

In most games, I spend a lot of time thinking about questions like "What roles could potentially exist? What is the likelihood that a given role is town/scum/3P, if it does exist? How would the mod try balancing the game overall, given the roles I know about for sure?"

In this case, scum have a ton of info on who is what, so holding back D1 makes it harder for to believe you on future days. Scum know the setup is open and so aren't going to slip up with their fake-claims (yes yes I did exactly this in open-setup Boneville).

What I think is really interesting about this day 1, if we all claim (at least claim what we submitted, if not what we got), is it gets us to a point where we can case people based on "Given that player X was in spot Y in the draft order, would they be more likely to have submitted (role A, role B) as town or as scum?"

What a non-lovely D1 that would be.

I'm not VT.

# ¿ Oct 26, 2023 23:30

CubicalSucrose: Jan 1, 2013; Phantom my Opera and call me South Park: Bigger, Longer, & Uncut

Ignatius M. Meen posted:

code:

problem
I wanted hammerer before game started
I exist
therefore others may as well
who chose role align-independent

I have more to say about something like this, but it'll wait until later.

# ¿ Oct 26, 2023 23:39

CubicalSucrose: Jan 1, 2013; Phantom my Opera and call me South Park: Bigger, Longer, & Uncut

PhantomMuzzles posted:

Pray tell, good Sir/Madam, what meaning is held by numbers in the "Town" and "Scum" columns?

Those were my "rough relative value/utility if I were playing that role as that alignment" (1 is best, 99 is worst). I didn't go back and rebaseline the first row, it's probably not as bad as it wound up. And don't read too much into the gaps between each, I was trying to slot them and leave room for future roles as I was going through from the top.

# ¿ Oct 26, 2023 23:45

CubicalSucrose: Jan 1, 2013; Phantom my Opera and call me South Park: Bigger, Longer, & Uncut

Johnny Keats posted:

Btw I only looked at the roles after I got told my draft order (ie after alignment).

Anyway I think massclaiming picks is a bad idea but I would be down for a similar idea I saw players do in some Blood on the Clocktower videos I watched (which is an open setup game), where you trade lists of 3 roles where one of those roles is your actual claim.

Is this a gut "think it's a bad idea" or have you actually considered if doing so is better for town or better for scum?

# ¿ Oct 26, 2023 23:47

CubicalSucrose: Jan 1, 2013; Phantom my Opera and call me South Park: Bigger, Longer, & Uncut

Johnny Keats posted:

I'm thinking about what information advantage scum can have on us right now. It exists, but is it enough that dumping town info in thread would make it closer to equal?

Assuming an equal distribution of scum in the list, but I don't think that factors in that much.

If scum all got powers, they know that nobody else in the game has those powers (same as anybody else in the game, but they get the info x4). If any of them didn't get their first pick roles, or didn't get either of their picks, they have a small slice of players they know that power went to. I think scum can have the maximum possible info if they all got their 2nd picks so let's assume that. They'd know clumps of players with (if they coordinated) 4 unique roles.

I think for us to claim anything, even a couple players, would give this theoretical scum team even more of an advantage to analyze the draft, while town would not gain enough context to make sense of it

This is a reasonable stance. One thing I have seen scum teams do though (Galaxy Space or whatever the Crab game recently was) is try and retrospectively align their fakeclaims and actions. This is always easier to do in a way that's consistent with the game state if they haven't claimed yet. By keeping town roles hidden longer, we keep the fakeclaim window longer. They already have better knowledge about which roles are "open" vs not. Locking them in early eliminates future wiggle-room late game. I think that's a worthwhile trade-off.

# ¿ Oct 27, 2023 00:01

CubicalSucrose: Jan 1, 2013; Phantom my Opera and call me South Park: Bigger, Longer, & Uncut

Johnny Keats posted:

If somebody chose duelist, pick me and I'll share my 3-for-3 roleclaim in masonry, then please cancel the duel

Duelist was confirmed to be a 1-shot this is a waste of a vig.

# ¿ Oct 27, 2023 00:10

CubicalSucrose: Jan 1, 2013; Phantom my Opera and call me South Park: Bigger, Longer, & Uncut

spacing in vienna posted:

Another clarification from another player question:

Colonel Brandon's duel ability is a one shot.

Quoted because not in OP and not a Clo post.

# ¿ Oct 27, 2023 00:12

CubicalSucrose: Jan 1, 2013; Phantom my Opera and call me South Park: Bigger, Longer, & Uncut

Johnny Keats posted:

It's not clear if that applies to cancelled duels

Being able to create unlimited private comms with anyone ever is "obviously" not how the role works given the mod comm post. If it is though holy poo poo did I misestimate how powerful that role was.

# ¿ Oct 27, 2023 00:14

CubicalSucrose: Jan 1, 2013; Phantom my Opera and call me South Park: Bigger, Longer, & Uncut

birdstrike posted:

ive turned into hal I�m on a plane

Counterclaim, I'm on a plane.

##vote birdstrike

# ¿ Oct 27, 2023 00:47

CubicalSucrose: Jan 1, 2013; Phantom my Opera and call me South Park: Bigger, Longer, & Uncut

Grandicap posted:

There is no need for fakeclaims this game.

If a person has a suspect role all they have to say is "I took it to keep scum from getting it." ~fin~

Setup is open, lying about role stuff is dumb because in the later game especially, it will nail people to the wall, and there is no need to lie about it at all.
The only caveat to that is that if a scum got a role that is different on the scum half, they will have to fake the town half of the role.

There are (slightly) more roles than players. Plus the alternates.

Scum still have some reasonable viable options lategame. "Oh this was a backup role and it's useless and I didn't claim earlier because I wanted scum to WIFOM and maybe knock me out. I originally submitted (two roles that have flipped or already been conclusively proven)."

# ¿ Oct 27, 2023 00:49

CubicalSucrose: Jan 1, 2013; Phantom my Opera and call me South Park: Bigger, Longer, & Uncut

Grandicap posted:

And I'm sure there are vanillas too.
But scum won't know which of the roles are viable fake claims unless we have already full claimed. If there is a sus claim that involves only publicly available information, it should be taken with a grain of salt, or maybe a cube of sugar.
On top of all of that, there is no reason to lie, all alignments had access to all roles. It's lying for the sake of lying and is detrimental to scum victory conditions in all but the cornerest of cases.

Hmm. I mean, scum are likely going to have to lie at least once about something. Maybe it is better for scum to have all the actual roles out in the open. I think it varies over the course of the game. Like. Massclaiming makes D1 easier for town, I think. Probably makes the few days after a bit easier for scum, although town get better info on good targets as well. Late game I do think having early claims makes it easier for town.

Still think massclaim makes more sense, but I could just be overly biased by my feelings about D1's.

# ¿ Oct 27, 2023 01:14

CubicalSucrose: Jan 1, 2013; Phantom my Opera and call me South Park: Bigger, Longer, & Uncut

shwinnebego posted:

##vote cube lol

I mean if the messenger really thought I wasn't going to immediately out them, that's not on me.

# ¿ Oct 27, 2023 02:03

CubicalSucrose: Jan 1, 2013; Phantom my Opera and call me South Park: Bigger, Longer, & Uncut

birdstrike posted:

now I am a plane

oh no I�ve turned into busb

Fair enough.

##unvote

# ¿ Oct 27, 2023 02:18

CubicalSucrose: Jan 1, 2013; Phantom my Opera and call me South Park: Bigger, Longer, & Uncut

wologar posted:

Sic the cops on: Sandwolf or Hal, to know if they are to be trusted.
Meet in private: PhantomMuzzles, to experience firsthand the talent of an accomplished melodica player.
Eject from the balls: Cube. Or Sandwolf, so he can accuse of me of substandard town play.

Tough but fair.

# ¿ Oct 27, 2023 04:41

CubicalSucrose: Jan 1, 2013; Phantom my Opera and call me South Park: Bigger, Longer, & Uncut

PhantomMuzzles posted:

It seems as though conversation has dwindled, which is precisely what I predicted would happen during a ball. Is everyone off dancing? How very droll.

I suggest we have a game. But not a lively one, for I do abhor liveliness. Which of your fellow ball attendees would you wish to...

-know better, accomplished via nocturnal investigation?

-engage in a private discussion, separate from the distractions of the crowd?

-uninvite from these festivities?

EGalz
PMuzz
YPM

# ¿ Oct 27, 2023 04:46

CubicalSucrose: Jan 1, 2013; Phantom my Opera and call me South Park: Bigger, Longer, & Uncut

*checks post counts*

Is EGalz here?

##vote EGalz

# ¿ Oct 27, 2023 14:54

CubicalSucrose: Jan 1, 2013; Phantom my Opera and call me South Park: Bigger, Longer, & Uncut

PhantomMuzzles posted:

OOC: EGalz has had an incredibly busy last couple days because we're opening the bar/cafe part of the funeral home escape room today and opening another new room next week. But I know she was excited about this game and should have time in the next day or so

*slumps head down suddenly, then raises it again*

My heavens, I don't know what came over me just then. What was I saying? Ah yes I like books.

EGalz probably isn't the messenger...maybe.

# ¿ Oct 27, 2023 15:41

CubicalSucrose: Jan 1, 2013; Phantom my Opera and call me South Park: Bigger, Longer, & Uncut

##unvote for now

When's deadline? A little over a day.

# ¿ Oct 27, 2023 18:34

CubicalSucrose: Jan 1, 2013; Phantom my Opera and call me South Park: Bigger, Longer, & Uncut

Is Zoya playing? No Zoya.

Keats I already did.

Wol you're my new arch-nemesis.

##vote Wologar

# ¿ Oct 27, 2023 18:38

CubicalSucrose: Jan 1, 2013; Phantom my Opera and call me South Park: Bigger, Longer, & Uncut

Johnny Keats posted:

What's a stunner?

YPM is RP'ing as (former?) WWFE(?) superstar " 'Stone Cold' Steve Austin" who had a signature finishing move known as the "Stone Cold Stunner." They were an 'everyman' face ("good guy") that rebelled against the administration, would allegedly drink beer after winning matches or something.

# ¿ Oct 27, 2023 18:47

CubicalSucrose: Jan 1, 2013; Phantom my Opera and call me South Park: Bigger, Longer, & Uncut

Assuming Iggy is actually the Hammerer, how should we think about voting?

On paper they're more likely to be town. I don't necessarily believe that they fully locked in their submission before getting alignment details. At minimum, Iggy would be receptive to hearing scum team member perspectives.

I'm inclined to let Iggy Hammer, but not necessarily go out of my way to do ensure they can.

Comedy option, Iggy self-hammers and gains a shot of exe-proof.

# ¿ Oct 27, 2023 19:15

CubicalSucrose: Jan 1, 2013; Phantom my Opera and call me South Park: Bigger, Longer, & Uncut

Your Personal Muse posted:

why do you think they are more likely to be town?

11 / 15 town.

# ¿ Oct 27, 2023 19:27

CubicalSucrose: Jan 1, 2013; Phantom my Opera and call me South Park: Bigger, Longer, & Uncut

wologar posted:

Must be nice to have so many people townread you.

It's actually kinda weird.

# ¿ Oct 27, 2023 19:27

CubicalSucrose: Jan 1, 2013; Phantom my Opera and call me South Park: Bigger, Longer, & Uncut

PhantomMuzzles posted:

OOC: St. Paul, Minnesota! If you visited we'd have so much fun showing you around and also we could play games in person!!!

I've been considering a one-day road trip at some point.

# ¿ Oct 27, 2023 19:28

CubicalSucrose: Jan 1, 2013; Phantom my Opera and call me South Park: Bigger, Longer, & Uncut

Hal Incandenza posted:

Hark!

I blocked the scum from getting the PGO, so don't visit me townsfolk

Sandwolf posted:

Did Hal claim PGO and I missed it?

# ¿ Oct 27, 2023 19:36

CubicalSucrose: Jan 1, 2013; Phantom my Opera and call me South Park: Bigger, Longer, & Uncut

Sandwolf posted:

Meh that�s probably ultimately alignment neutral. It�s a good play for town or scum to grab. I am still always down to kill Hal, unlike my good friend Half, who I would die for

Is "Half" a flavor thing? Or an old player?

# ¿ Oct 27, 2023 19:46

CubicalSucrose: Jan 1, 2013; Phantom my Opera and call me South Park: Bigger, Longer, & Uncut

Sandwolf posted:

lmao

I got mod comms suggesting "Hal / Alf" which makes a lot of sense but didn't click upon fast reading.

# ¿ Oct 27, 2023 20:56

CubicalSucrose: Jan 1, 2013; Phantom my Opera and call me South Park: Bigger, Longer, & Uncut

birdstrike posted:

scum pgo might end up taking out lots of people beforehand though, plus another town death might be enough to tip the balance near endgame. I�m not really buying this

I propose Iggy Hammer Hal today. All in favor?

(Cue a raucous "Hell aye!" from the crowd)

# ¿ Oct 27, 2023 20:58

CubicalSucrose: Jan 1, 2013; Phantom my Opera and call me South Park: Bigger, Longer, & Uncut

Iggy town, Hal town - Probably okay, depends on what Iggy gets
Iggy scum, Hal town - Really bad
Iggy town, Hal scum - Somewhere between "great" and "awesome"
Iggy scum, Hal scum - They would never agree to this.

Optimally, I think, we either do this (doesn't have to be today I guess, unless Iggy dies tonight) or we basically have to commit to never vote out Hal ever.

Hot tub effect is also worrisome with the PGO in play.

Actually why didn't Iggy pick hot tub?

# ¿ Oct 27, 2023 21:43

CubicalSucrose: Jan 1, 2013; Phantom my Opera and call me South Park: Bigger, Longer, & Uncut

CubicalSucrose posted:

Optimally, I think, we either do this (doesn't have to be today I guess, unless Iggy dies tonight) or we basically have to commit to never vote out Hal ever.

I was trying to do endgame math to validate or invalidate this and I think this might not be exactly correct.

But "If we're ever going to vote out Hal, then we should have Iggy hammer" does still seem right to me. (Actually I'd be good with anyone other than me hammering).

I think we should vote out Hal, Wol, or someone who hasn't claimed or said why they won't claim.

# ¿ Oct 27, 2023 22:29

CubicalSucrose: Jan 1, 2013; Phantom my Opera and call me South Park: Bigger, Longer, & Uncut

##vote Hal

# ¿ Oct 27, 2023 22:30

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# ¿ May 19, 2025 09:01

CubicalSucrose: Jan 1, 2013; Phantom my Opera and call me South Park: Bigger, Longer, & Uncut

Johnny Keats posted:

I still think we should let the vig shoot Hal instead of have a townie die hammering him.

##unvote

Oh this is better yeah.

# ¿ Oct 28, 2023 03:56

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Trad Games > The Game Room > In Want of a WIFOA - A Ridiculously Overcomplicated Jane Austen Mafia Game

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