|
Artelier posted:I was idly watching some of the matches while doing work, and I agree with the posters before; your punishes should be accompanied by a combo if at all possible. Especially that Lars sweep; there are so many moments where you hit it, and you could probably do at least some sort of basic thing, but you just let the opponent fall and get back up (sometimes you follow up with a grounded sweep). And you keep going for the sweep, which gets blocked and punished sometimes too. You mean I should be using the fastest wr I have if I hit with the sweep only? I learned a combo to do on default launchers (df+2, wr2, KNK 3, hopkick), I was thinking I wanted to prolong the neutral game as much as possible but I guess that promotes a no-respect gameplay from the opponent as they know they can trade freely and end up winning. edit: I stand corrected. Wavu says [10] CH db+4 [+55; 34] df+2+3 ws3 b+1,1+2,d BOK.1,2 T! BBP[9] [+54; 32] df+2+3 ws3 b+1,1+2,d BOK.1,2 T! f+4~df CD.2,4 I don't know what these numbers mean! But the combo is mostly clear. What's a BBP, though? The note says "sidestep right if off axis", I guess I'll do the bottom one lol edit2: BBP (Barge Barge Punch/Palm): b+1+2,1+2,qcf+2 why is Tekken notation so weird lol Char fucked around with this message at 13:22 on Mar 18, 2024 |
#
?
Mar 18, 2024 12:07
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 27, 2024 12:03 |
|
|
Char posted:
I should have specified, sorry! I don't play Leo so I don't know the specifics, but specifically on counter hit sweep (where the opponent falls down, which you hit quite a few times in the matches that I saw, there's a combo opportunity. Most of the time when I saw you hit that, you just kinda stood there, maybe you did a follow up sweep (which did minimal damage or was blocked) I went into training mode, and from db+4 counterhit, I can definitely do 4, df+1 3, dash in, f+2 2 for 52 damage (about 20ish percent health). I'm sure this is not optimal, not my character and I barely experimented. But with this, that means if I hit 5 counterhit sweeps, theoretically, I win the round. If I skip doing the counterhit combo, I need to hit the sweep what, 25 times or so before I win a round.
|
|
#
?
Mar 18, 2024 13:43
|
|
|
I didn't see any big-looking effect on db+4 CH, so I thought I had no real practical advantage, I was using it as a pseudo-poke to remind them they have to block low, the follow-up 1 is a reminder for monkey brains like me that Bad Things Happen if you get hit by it. I was aware it's like -31 on block, which makes it a move that shouldn't be used as a poke, but it seemed to me its range was better than other alternatives. In some of my matches you'll notice I was using db+4 then df+1 to stop flowchart aggressions. I also started noticing that d+4 actually seems to hit longer than it looks like (and this is something I'm having a bit of an issue with) so it would be a safer option compared to db+4, and... ---checks wavu--- it doesn't offer anything on CH, unlike db+4. But looking at all the low-hitting options, it seems to me the most usable outside of edge cases are d+4 and db+4 Okay, I've got something else to put in the notebook. Use d+4 as the conditioning tool, land some mids, and stick a combo after if I get a feel for a CH db+4. Char fucked around with this message at 14:00 on Mar 18, 2024 |
|
#
?
Mar 18, 2024 13:54
|
|
|
Char posted:
Artelier posted:I should have specified, sorry! I don't play Leo so I don't know the specifics, but specifically on counter hit sweep Leo's db4,1 is a hellsweep, don't use that without the 1 as a poke hoping for a ch (it's only good for that on very specific reads/situations). It's a chunk of damage plus a knockdown to switch around the momentum; use it as such because it is also a stagger low that will kill you if it is blocked. Use d4 and cqf1 for the poking. Edit: you posted while I was typing, seems like you are aware of the bits, but yeah do reorient yourself on that move. You don't db4, df1 to make people maybe duck, you db4,1 for momentum and make people panic. Edit again: forgot about df2+3, also good poke, kinda really mean. Autsj fucked around with this message at 14:04 on Mar 18, 2024 |
|
#
?
Mar 18, 2024 13:58
|
|
|
Autsj posted:Leo's db4,1 is a hellsweep, don't use that without the 1 as a poke hoping for a ch (it's only good for that on very specific reads/situations). It's a chunk of damage plus a knockdown to switch around the momentum; use it as such because it is also a stagger low that will kill you if it is blocked. Use d4 and cqf1 for the poking. Yeah, I edited to reword better what I had in mind. Isn't df+2+3 super short range though? I might be wrong, I never use it and I don't really remember its attack animation. But frame data and CH options look very interesting, yeah...
|
|
#
?
Mar 18, 2024 14:06
|
|
|
Char posted:Yeah, I edited to reword better what I had in mind. I honestly can't say how the range feels/works out as I don't play Leo, I do know that move is a bastard up close at least and the frames still look good.
|
|
#
?
Mar 18, 2024 14:40
|
|
|
Char posted:I didn't see any big-looking effect on db+4 CH, so I thought I had no real practical advantage, I was using it as a pseudo-poke to remind them they have to block low, the follow-up 1 is a reminder for monkey brains like me that Bad Things Happen if you get hit by it. I was aware it's like -31 on block, which makes it a move that shouldn't be used as a poke, but it seemed to me its range was better than other alternatives. I watched some of those matches in your previous vid and you are improving a ton! I agree that you shouldn't use db+4 without the 1, it's only better on CH and if you have that CH followup on dial which is hard. Plus if you do the full db+4,1 string it gets them off of you and knocked down which can be helpful. db+4,1 also really freaks out the opponent, way way more than simply taking a small poke in db+4. I never see any Leo players use just db+4 d+4 (often called the soccer kick) is only -11 on block, which is the least punishable any low gets, so you can throw it out much more safely than the hellsweep. Like you said it also has good range, its a great low to poke with or try to sneak a round ender in. df+2+3 is an amazing move, it's short range and linear like you say, but only -12 and on CH you get a full combo! To pick up the combo you need to press 3 when you see the counter hit to get the WS3, and when you do this you'll see they go into the same juggle state as all your other stuff. I would say you don't really need this move yet unless you want to add more complexity to your lows. Hellsweep alone will take you super far If you are looking for more lows, QCF 1 is good too since on CH you get a free WS4,1+2 heat engage, but really I think you can just stick to hellsweep and d+4 for now. For other notes I think if you keep working on the current stuff you will climb the ranks. You are creating a ton of whiffs right now so the more you try to capitalize on that with df+2 and 2,2 the more you will just start crushing people. Also you can probably use b1,4 KNK mixup even more to keep the pressure on them, I noticed in your matches that when you used that against passive opponents you were getting a ton of damage. WorldIndustries fucked around with this message at 16:59 on Mar 18, 2024 |
|
#
?
Mar 18, 2024 16:57
|
|
|
Char posted:I didn't see any big-looking effect on db+4 CH, so I thought I had no real practical advantage, I was using it as a pseudo-poke to remind them they have to block low, the follow-up 1 is a reminder for monkey brains like me that Bad Things Happen if you get hit by it. I was aware it's like -31 on block, which makes it a move that shouldn't be used as a poke, but it seemed to me its range was better than other alternatives. How many Leo matches from other players have you watched? I've never in my life seen a leo just db+4 and stop, it's meant to be followed by the 1. This is the sort of thing that's easier to figure out by watching how people generally play the character, if you're just labbing and experimenting by yourself without studying real matches it's going to take you weeks just to figure out what all the moves are good for, and you're gonna get a lot of it wrong. Sometimes I'll put on a youtube playlist of other matches with my character and if I see something interesting or clever I'll timestamp it and come back to it later to try labbing it.
|
|
#
?
Mar 18, 2024 17:12
|
|
|
Dr. Fishopolis posted:How many Leo matches from other players have you watched? I've never in my life seen a leo just db+4 and stop, it's meant to be followed by the 1. This is the sort of thing that's easier to figure out by watching how people generally play the character, if you're just labbing and experimenting by yourself without studying real matches it's going to take you weeks just to figure out what all the moves are good for, and you're gonna get a lot of it wrong. Sometimes I'll put on a youtube playlist of other matches with my character and if I see something interesting or clever I'll timestamp it and come back to it later to try labbing it. Very few. I don't really have that much time to play, so I end up spending more time playing matches rather than labbing against specific setups. I must also admit that only recently I managed to parse what I'm seeing in a video, I have zero Tekken experience (except the usual "Hey I used to play Tekken! Tekken 3!") and connecting what you see in a match to the toolset of a character is harder to what I'm used to see in 2d fighters.
|
|
#
?
Mar 18, 2024 17:53
|
|
|
Char posted:I must also admit that only recently I managed to parse what I'm seeing in a video, I have zero Tekken experience (except the usual "Hey I used to play Tekken! Tekken 3!") and connecting what you see in a match to the toolset of a character is harder to what I'm used to see in 2d fighters. Yeah that makes a lot of sense, it's nearly impossible to parse cool stuff going on if you don't already know the character, but I think you're at the point now where it would make a lot of sense to watch a bunch of matches and see how other people succeed or fail. Also, if you download other people's replays in-game, you can watch their inputs and take over if you want to try something. I really can't overstate how useful the replay system is. Dr. Fishopolis fucked around with this message at 19:28 on Mar 18, 2024 |
|
#
?
Mar 18, 2024 19:26
|
|
|
Friend shared this reddit post discussing Harada's responses to team battle and tekken shop: https://www.reddit.com/r/Tekken/comments/1bhg4lj/harada_explaining_why_theres_no_team_battle_in_t8/ I'm curious if anyone is familiar enough with the development of fighting games that they can explain why team battle would be so costly to implement. Also, a friend remarked on the load times for team battle being terrible in the past before SSD but I know Tekken Tag was able to implement a system where multiple characters were loaded at one time so what's the challenge in doing so for a team battle format? I'm thinking like the 3-on-3 team-based format KoF has. I can understand not going to the trouble if in fact the demand for the mode is not there or there's data to suggest it will not be used but I have a hard time believing it would see less play than Tekken Ball. Personally, I would love that mode and had a blast doing 8 character battles with friends back in the day. It was refreshing to not play against the same handful of characters ad infinitum and encouraged us to get familiar with more of the cast. There was some strategy involved as well, do you start with your main hoping to run up a lead against your opponent? Do you arrange your roster to gain some matchup advantage?
|
|
#
?
Mar 18, 2024 19:54
|
|
|
Urethane posted:Leo has pretty good moves to approach, like qcf 2,1 , or qcf 1 or b1,4 db2, 4, if you can hit confirm the second hit, is an incredible long range option
|
|
#
?
Mar 18, 2024 20:16
|
|
|
This is where I discover that, on a standing Kazuya in practice, Leo's d+4 hits from a whopping 2.60. Should I mention the fact that db+4 doesn't even come close to hitting from such a distance? edit: won't reup the thread but I've won rounds out of d+4 poking. df+2+3, instead, is very hard to use, on the other hand. A 21 frames startup move is hard to use in this brave world of orange rank, high apm dragunovs and jins Char fucked around with this message at 23:49 on Mar 18, 2024 |
|
#
?
Mar 18, 2024 21:25
|
|
|
I'm finally getting time to play again, so naturally I immediately decided to try a new character since I feel like Lili is fun, but not necessarily the type of character I like to play as much. I've been really liking Nina a lot though, just from messing around. I generally like execution-y characters, and I'm a huge fan of rushdown and mixups so she feels like an interesting fit. Though she's definitely significantly more complicated than the other characters I've messed with back in T7 and a little bit in T8! Has anyone found any good video guides or anything on Nina? I've seen a few, but mostly have just been going off the tekken 8 library stuff as I've been messing around with her ahead of really starting to play her in a lot of matches
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2024 01:28
|
|
|
Weird Pumpkin posted:I'm finally getting time to play again, so naturally I immediately decided to try a new character since I feel like Lili is fun, but not necessarily the type of character I like to play as much. Well I did a quick yt search and I wouldn't trust any of those guys to know what they are talking about. Which probably means waiting for "Family Man--I never have any time left anymore--AFriendlyTree". He says he's about 75% done, which probably means a few weeks from now. In the meantime I'd suggest heading up the Nina discord, haven't been around there in the T8 days, but during 7 it was one of the better discords with good expertise, overall game knowledge, and decent help for newer players: https://discord.gg/qWA9cww3 Autsj fucked around with this message at 02:20 on Mar 19, 2024 |
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2024 02:14
|
|
|
Autsj posted:Well I did a quick yt search and I wouldn't trust any of those guys to know what they are talking about. Which probably means waiting for "Family Man--I never have any time left anymore--AFriendlyTree". He says he's about 75% done, which probably means a few weeks from now. Nice, thanks! Yeah when I did a quick search I didn't really find much from people I really knew anything about, so figured I'd double check In the meantime I'll hit up the discord and just use some of the basic stuff to get some practice before I worry about anything too complicated. I guess I'm gonna have to learn to do iWS stuff for the butterfly loops someday if I stick with her. It's funny that looping it on the standing dummy isn't too hard on hitbox, but man gimme a launch and ask me to do 2 butterflies and I'm totally helpless 
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2024 02:17
|
|
|
Weird Pumpkin posted:Nice, thanks! Yeah when I did a quick search I didn't really find much from people I really knew anything about, so figured I'd double check I was just editing my post to add a bit more but then saw you already replied so here it is as a fresh post. For some basics to get started: I'd suggest getting really comfortable with her basic 'small Tekken' tools and pokes. Nina has almost all the legacy moves, they're basically all great, and she has extensions on a few too which makes them even better (standing 4, d4, d3, ws4--probably forgetting one). Small constant poking is her starting core, from there you can start adding in her unique stuff to accelerate her small Tekken into continuous pressure. And then you can get lost in endless butterfly combo practice.
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2024 02:20
|
|
|
Are certain moves guaranteed if the opponent is face down? I've been messing around with some Reina combo variations, and one specific one with the wall at a certain distance leaves them face down, with me at frame advantage. I thought I could do d+4, 1 but the punch whiffs. Then I tried crouch dash 3 and that seems to work, all the time, but it doesn't count in the combo counter, so I'm not sure. I manually tested a little by setting the opponent's get up recovery to random and went down the list and it feels like it works all the time, but I'm not certain if there's a correct methodology to test this.
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2024 04:03
|
|
|
I don't think any character scares me more to match up against than Nina, just because Nina players are going to be hardcore cancelling everything until their fingers fall off. All I know is that she should constantly look like she's doing the jitterbug.
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2024 04:12
|
|
|
I was going to post earlier that fighting nina is real scary, she's def S tier in the right hands
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2024 04:14
|
|
|
High level Ninas have probably hands-down the best movement in the game and their inputs might as well be an alien language to me
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2024 04:16
|
|
|
Nice Van My Man posted:I don't think any character scares me more to match up against than Nina, just because Nina players are going to be hardcore cancelling everything until their fingers fall off. All I know is that she should constantly look like she's doing the jitterbug. Basically all her major strings can cancel into side-step, sway, or both. It's awesome 
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2024 13:58
|
|
|
If I didn’t have my hands full trying to learn all of Zafina’s stance transitions and such I’d put more time into Nina, she’s very cool.
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2024 14:25
|
|
|
Weird Pumpkin posted:Basically all her major strings can cancel into side-step, sway, or both. It's awesome I've played 99% of my matches as Nina so I guess I should try doing these things now
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2024 14:35
|
|
|
Weird Pumpkin posted:Basically all her major strings can cancel into side-step, sway, or both. It's awesome spiritual bypass posted:I've played 99% of my matches as Nina so I guess I should try doing these things now It's not really a sidestep, it's a stance that gives her quicker access to her sidestep moves; it looks like a sidestep but it has no real evasive properties. Still very good for those sidestep moves, but it does mean you need to practice things like 1,2 and df1,2 into real sidesteps separately so you don't get stuck in the stance when you wanted to get out of the way. Artelier posted:Are certain moves guaranteed if the opponent is face down? I've been messing around with some Reina combo variations, and one specific one with the wall at a certain distance leaves them face down, with me at frame advantage. For Reina's stomp, if the opponent is face up you can connect the full d4,1, if they are face down they can ukemi the 1, if they react quickly, otherwise they still eat it, and the jf version has an aoe that can still clip them sometimes. For face down generally you do either single stomp (which does more damage by itself than the stomp part of d4), cd3, or for certain mid range spots f1+2,3. To test these things you have to run through the different recovery options, testing each with the bot set to block all as a second action; 99.9% of cases this will give you an accurate picture of if a thing works or not. Autsj fucked around with this message at 15:51 on Mar 19, 2024 |
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2024 15:49
|
|
|
Autsj posted:It's not really a sidestep, it's a stance that gives her quicker access to her sidestep moves; it looks like a sidestep but it has no real evasive properties. Still very good for those sidestep moves, but it does mean you need to practice things like 1,2 and df1,2 into real sidesteps separately so you don't get stuck in the stance when you wanted to get out of the way.  good to know! it's just listed as cancelling to sidestep in the move list so I sorta just assumedFound this in the nina discord that seems like a pretty good starting place for more complicated stuff: https://docs.google.com/document/d/15iC2duCQLb0EoqBXyMkjWffiFE_IDLaenVBA6kS2bM4 Weird Pumpkin fucked around with this message at 18:16 on Mar 19, 2024 |
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2024 17:04
|
|
|
Weird Pumpkin posted:
From a quick skim I'd say that looks very solid yeah, a good example of why I like that discord  . Maybe a little information overload at the start but that's just gonna happen with a character like Nina; gotta just work through that.
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2024 17:27
|
|
|
Genuinely, i know Kaz has his strggles in this game but... how do you stand back up against a Kazuya player who is well aware that steel pedal is the best oki move in the game and will do it shamelessly over and over?
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2024 04:39
|
|
|
Levin posted:Friend shared this reddit post discussing Harada's responses to team battle and tekken shop: https://www.reddit.com/r/Tekken/comments/1bhg4lj/harada_explaining_why_theres_no_team_battle_in_t8/
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2024 05:05
|
|
|
Also I will never not hit rematch anyone who doesn't is a coward
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2024 05:14
|
|
|
Imaginary Friend posted:The bar has been raised quite significantly since Tekken tag. It would require new animations, inputs, potential combos that work together for different characters, restructuring menus/tutorials and the replay tracking (figuring out how to implement switching when taking over replays etc.), and probably changing how characters are loaded since it's heavily optimized for two. Skipping on any part would make it feel unpolished, lowering the quality of the whole game. I thought team battle was different from tag battle. Isn't team battle the one where you pick 8 characters and every time you lose you switch to the next character Edit: yeah https://tekken.fandom.com/wiki/Team_Battle
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2024 05:20
|
|
|
CharlieFoxtrot posted:I thought team battle was different from tag battle. Isn't team battle the one where you pick 8 characters and every time you lose you switch to the next character 
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2024 05:26
|
|
|
Put some more time into Jun tonight, she might end up my main. These low ranked matches are teaching me such bad habits though, most of the time I can just back up, wait for them to rush in, b3, free 70 damage combo. Red players are still doing it and I need to actively tell myself to play right because I know better players will bait it out and whiff punish or pick a move that hits b3 hurtbox if that's my tendency but it's so tempting and effective at these ranks.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2024 09:08
|
|
|
It genuinely took me several minutes to even remember what b3 was. What on Earth are you doing off it?
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2024 09:20
|
|
|
b32 (the 2 is super delayable/hit confirmable) dash forward b42 f3 b21-f-2. 73 damage.
great big cardboard tube fucked around with this message at 09:31 on Mar 20, 2024 |
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2024 09:24
|
|
|
Levin posted:Friend shared this reddit post discussing Harada's responses to team battle and tekken shop: https://www.reddit.com/r/Tekken/comments/1bhg4lj/harada_explaining_why_theres_no_team_battle_in_t8/ I think processor-memory performance gap is a significant factor (even after SSDs) but Tekken 8 deals with loading characters much better than T7. I think the biggest annoyance would be to implement and debug the networking aspect of team battle, even more so if it's supposed to support more than 2 players. It took many months for online tournaments in SF6 to be mostly functional, if you consider that Capcom have been squabbling with these modes since SF5 it took them like half a decade to get right.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2024 12:27
|
|
|
Made it to Tenryu, and glad I'm now blowing up people trying to do Rage Arts (fml I hate everything about Tekken when I see one land) but still nowhere near landing optimal damage; I keep missing windows and cursing myself.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2024 12:37
|
|
|
Revins posted:Also I will never not hit rematch anyone who doesn't is a coward Man.. of the probably 10 or 15 matches I played last night, the only people that rematched were the ones that obliterated me. If it was even remotely close people would duck, or if I won they'd duck. It was real weird 
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2024 13:46
|
|
|
I don't know how they can fix that tbh. It really sucks, I just want to run it back against people in almost any situation and more often than not now they just decline the rematch. Unrelated to that and semi-self promotional, Markman made a thread asking for 80+ damage combos so I made another combo video on Bryan that might have some surprise "wait, that's a full launcher?" moments inside. https://twitter.com/Nazzadan/status/1770317360705998965
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2024 21:05
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 27, 2024 12:03 |
|
|
People pretty much always rematch me. My strategy is to skip the win animation and mash rematch every time so I'm always the first one. I might just be lucky with my rank or region but I wonder if there's a strategy to getting people to match. The only people who don't rematch are very few who usually get me in a blowout, which always bugs me because usually when I get murdered I can come back in the next set. The reverse is also usually true unfortunatly.
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2024 00:19
|
|