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It is the year 0079 of the Universal Century. A half-century has passed since Earth begun moving its burgeoning population into gigantic orbiting space colonies. A new home for Mankind, where people are born and raised... and where they died. Nine months ago the cluster of colonies furthest from the Earth, called Side 3, proclaimed its self the Principality of Zeon and declared war against the Earth Federation. In only one month the war caused the deaths of half the entire population. Humanity became horrified by its own actions. Eight months have now passed since the war began. They were at a stalemate. YOU WILL SEE THE TEARS OF TIME.  Gundam Rising!! The brainchild of Writer/Director Yoshiyuki "Kill 'em All" Tomino, Mobile Suit Gundam began as a series of 30 minute toy commercials in 1979 which did a poor job of selling toys but became inexplicably popular with young women and college fan-clubs. Gundam has since developed into a media juggernaut often described in America to normal people as "Japan's Star Trek (or Star Wars)". Compared to Star Trek, Gundam takes a darker more complicated view on the question of if we will ever escape the cycle of violence and live up to the promise of humanity's potential. Gundam has several surface elements reminiscent of Star Wars such as swinging around laser swords, but rather than being stylistically rooted in fantasy with a sci-fi veneer it instead lives more in the world of mid 20th century "hard" science fiction and cutting edge speculation on future of space travel developments such as Gerard O'Neil's The High Frontier (1976). There's no FTL travel, and the only artificial gravity is what you can get from the force of moving. It's this core of sci-fi inspiration which I find really appealing, you can tell a lot of the people involved were huge sci-fi fans who were devouring all the latest speculation on where the space race might take us. Like many people in the US, my first exposure to Gundam was catching random episodes of various Gundam series as they aired in the Toonami block on Cartoon Network when I was a kid. I had a very poor understanding of what was going on, or how the series related to each other (or didn't). But it seemed pretty cool and always stuck with me, even though I'm not really a giant robot fan. Throughout the years I have watched and enjoyed a few scattered series here and there, such as following along with the Turn A-Gundam watch-along thread we had on the forums many years ago. Following the recent release of The Witch From Mercury, I have embarked on a journey to watch every episode of every Gundam show in the order in release order, and I'm quite enjoying most of it so far. I've found myself frequently thinking back on the characters and themes of a series long after watching it, and questioning how it relates to a series as a whole. I would like to write more detailed write-ups of what I think of each series, however that's too much work for one OP. The point of posting this thread is to talk about Gundam as a cool sci-fi show outside of the anime circles its typically discussed in, and maybe convince some people who've slept on the series to give it a try. WHO WILL SURVIVE? 
Lazy Fair fucked around with this message at 01:47 on Jan 19, 2025 |
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Jan 19, 2025 01:28
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Also Zeon are the bad guys (if it wasn't clear).
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Jan 19, 2025 01:37
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It’s always wild to be how divergent Zeon was, from their whole aristocracy to the mobile suit designs. But they’re just a colony??
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Jan 19, 2025 04:56
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Sir DonkeyPunch posted:It’s always wild to be how divergent Zeon was, from their whole aristocracy to the mobile suit designs. But they’re just a colony?? Zeon isn’t a single colony, it a group of about 40~ colonies with a total population of like 1.5 billion people.
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Jan 19, 2025 13:15
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In the timeline Zeon peacefully achieved independence from the Earth Federation 10 years prior to the outbreak of the One Year War. The whole "war of independence" narrative is entirely a fabrication, they already had it. They spent that decade building up their military for a war of conquest against the Earth Federation, which is what the One Year War really is. The Zabi family simply were not content to rule over Side 3, they wanted to be kings of the entire Earth Sphere.
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Jan 20, 2025 03:22
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fartknocker posted:Zeon isn’t a single colony, it a group of about 40~ colonies with a total population of like 1.5 billion people. I thought it was "just" 350 million, but there's probably three or four different sources on that.
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Jan 20, 2025 16:15
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Requiem For Vengeance is kinda dogshit and a pretty poor place for anyone new to Gundam to start watching.
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Jan 20, 2025 17:28
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wdarkk posted:I thought it was "just" 350 million, but there's probably three or four different sources on that. Yep. IIRC, there's one that at has their population as low as 150 million, which is ludicrously small. Many, many years ago, Mark Simmons and a bunch of the well informed people on the old Gundam Evolution forum (And maybe MechaTalk too?) went over stuff and tried to reconcile the various descriptions given for pre-OYW population figures and the early war casualties, and this is what they came up with: quote:What we ended up doing was taking the total number of casualties during the One Week Battle as 6.5 billion from the setting notes, doubling that for the total pre-OYW population of the Earth Sphere as per the opening narration (which says that half of humanity was killed) for a total of 13 billion, evenly distributed between Earth and space (as per the opening narration of the MSG movies II and III). The population of the Sides is generally given as a billion each (except for Side 3, which has more due to consisting of closed colonies, and Side 7, which can basically be ignored). That gives us 5 billion in Sides 1, 2, 4, 5, and 6 (leaving 1.5 billion of the 6.5 billion total spacenoid population for Side 3). This matches the numbers from Gundam Century and EB1, which say that 3 billion die on Sides 1, 2, and 4, while 2.5 billion die on Earth as a result of the colony drop (the remaining 1 billion of our 6.5 billion total casualties come from Side 5 as a result of the Battle of Loum). That was done back in like 2005 or 2006, but at least within the English-language speaking fandom, I think that's where the 1.5 billion figure for Zeon comes from, unless some other official source has also used that as well.
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Jan 20, 2025 17:54
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Does that take into account Gihren's speech where he says that the Earth Federation still vastly outnumbers Zeon (something like 50 times their production output?) and it's due to Zeon's superior soldiers that they've held the stalemate for so long?
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Jan 20, 2025 20:55
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Mission accomplished. *self destructs own Gundam for the third time or whatever*
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Jan 22, 2025 11:00
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ITT everyone's soul is weighed down by gravity
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Jan 22, 2025 16:58
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Also weighed down by a bunch of unbuilt models. I swear I'll get all those Jegans built eventually...
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Jan 23, 2025 00:27
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I'm watching the original show with a friend since I haven't seen it in forever and I want her to have seen it before Gquuuuuux comes out stateside. One thing I noticed in episode 4 was them holding a funeral by launching a corpse in a torpedo. I thought that was ripping off Wrath of Khan but I checked and that came out 3 years later. Is this a reference to Space Battleship Yamato or something, or is this the origin of that motif?
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Jan 31, 2025 00:53
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"Released from a torpedo tube" is a real life mechanism for burial at sea, US navy vets that qualify for military burial can request it as an option. I don't know when it originated but NYT has an article from 1965 about an admiral getting the treatment. So whoever showed it first in space, it's another case of good sci fi taking inspiration from regular ship life for space ship life.
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Jan 31, 2025 12:52
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They say this Full Frontal dude is the second coming of a guy who went by the name "Quattro Bajeena".
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Jan 31, 2025 21:21
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How do the different timelines work? Are they points in time separated enough that the issues are unrelated but in a shared universe? Or a disagreement on what would follow the events of the og series? Unrelated beyond set dressing?
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Jan 31, 2025 22:44
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pygmy tyrant posted:How do the different timelines work? Are they points in time separated enough that the issues are unrelated but in a shared universe? Or a disagreement on what would follow the events of the og series? Unrelated beyond set dressing? Short answer: The difference universes are unrelated beyond the use of the word “Gundam” and some common elements and tropes (Masked villains and such) and generally have no connection back to the original Universal Century timeline/setting.
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Jan 31, 2025 22:46
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pygmy tyrant posted:"Released from a torpedo tube" is a real life mechanism for burial at sea, US navy vets that qualify for military burial can request it as an option. I don't know when it originated but NYT has an article from 1965 about an admiral getting the treatment. So whoever showed it first in space, it's another case of good sci fi taking inspiration from regular ship life for space ship life. Huh, learn something new every day. I thought they just lowered you over the side. fartknocker posted:Short answer: The difference universes are unrelated beyond the use of the word “Gundam” and some common elements and tropes (Masked villains and such) and generally have no connection back to the original Universal Century timeline/setting. There's a much longer answer, but just use this one.
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Jan 31, 2025 23:46
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wdarkk posted:There's a much longer answer I briefly considered including it, but I’m on my phone and   
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Jan 31, 2025 23:51
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fartknocker posted:I briefly considered including it, but I’m on my phone and no worries your answer was perfect for my underlying question of whether it matters if I skip around. Although now that I looked up the time line what I really need to know is how Turn A cannonizes the best gundam, the one with a sombrero
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Feb 1, 2025 00:22
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pygmy tyrant posted:no worries your answer was perfect for my underlying question of whether it matters if I skip around.  Skipping around really mostly matters somewhat within the context of the Universal Century shows, and even how much it does is something I've seen debated for quarter century now (Jesus Christ, I've been following this poo poo for a long time  ), since that's the setting with the most shows and movies and OVAs and whatnot. Some works definitely build on others or may be better with previous knowledge, others don't. There's also the "TV series or compilation movies" question with some stuff, where in some cases it's quite minor (The original series/movies are pretty close so either is fine) or one version is clearly superior (Such as 0083's original OVA - The compilation movie is badly edited to the point of being incomprehensible) or the changes are loving massive (Zeta's movies done 20 years later, which awkwardly mix original and new animation and make major changes to the story).Outside of the UC setting, most of the other Alternate Universe settings don't have the depth of works within them. A bunch of the AUs are just a single series on their own, or are linear with a few sequels (I think SEED's Cosmic Era setting has the most, with two full length series, a handful of shorts, and a movie) so each of them is easier to progress through. Outside of that, you can pretty much go from one AU to another in almost any order you want. pygmy tyrant posted:Although now that I looked up the time line what I really need to know is how Turn A cannonizes the best gundam, the one with a sombrero It's been like... 14 years since I last watched Turn A, but there's only a handful of vague G Gundam references in it, and I don't think they included the Tequila Gundam.
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Feb 1, 2025 01:29
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fartknocker posted:It's been like... 14 years since I last watched Turn A, but there's only a handful of vague G Gundam references in it, and I don't think they included the Tequila Gundam. They do have the Windmill and Horse Gundams though.
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Feb 1, 2025 01:32
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I've been rewatching Gundam Wing in the background for the last couple days and increasingly my favorite parts aren't the mechas and space colonies but the ridiculous ways everyone acts, such as - Relena speaking to the spirit of her dead pacifist father who died for his ideals about how the only thing getting her through mourning him is a cute boy, looking up at the explosions on the horizon and going 'oh that must be him!' - Lady Une pushing that guy out of a plane and then shooting him while he fell because shes so down bad she got split personalities. - Every single decision Zechs Marquise makes wdarkk posted:They do have the Windmill and Horse Gundams though. Windmill Gundam is a solid second and good enough justification for me
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Feb 2, 2025 00:43
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pygmy tyrant posted:- Lady Une pushing that guy out of a plane and then shooting him while he fell because shes so down bad she got split personalities. That's why Bane was so confused when the CIA agent faked shooting a man before throwing him out of a plane. Bane saw Gundam Wing so he knows you shoot them AFTER you yeet them out of the plane.
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Feb 2, 2025 18:58
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Wing is a rather bizarre beast and I have several theories to explain it. With the main ensemble of gundam pilots being cute boys and Relena's prominence throughout the series plus the end credits being her just faffing about with the animals in africa, this series is clearly made to appeal to female audiences. My theory is that not everyone in the writers room was happy with this direction and they used Wu Fei to voice their dissatisfaction. I also suspect that the show was flying by the seat of their pants throughout the series, like you noted character can sometime act in just utterly bizarre ways like everything about Lady Une or Zechs. My favorite is Zechs vowing to remain friends with the main antagoist for the series for also long as his mask is intact, only for it to shatter immediately just two seconds later with him immediately declaring "I can no longer be your friend." There also how the main baddies are apparently funded by old European aristocracy and nobility who seek to return to their former positions of power. Also since we are talking about a show made in the mid nineties when the internet was beginning to change how creators interact with their audiences, that there was the feeling that they needed to stay one step ahead of the viewer and so must be sure to always put out a twist that they don't see coming, regardless of whether on not it makes sense. All coming together to form just such a weird bizarre beast as this. I don't think anyone would be able to pull it off today.
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Feb 4, 2025 01:18
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They're apparently financing a live action Hollywood Gundam movie now. I think a straight forward re-telling of the first 5 or so episodes could work pretty well. You have the attack on Amuro's home, everyone fleeing onto the battleship, getting press ganged into military service, fighting while on the run from the red comet and escaping Luna II, and eventually making it to presumed safety of re-entry to earth. I think thats a pretty good arc for a movie. I doubt they will do this.
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Feb 5, 2025 07:20
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Ice Train posted:Wing is a rather bizarre beast and I have several theories to explain it. Apparently Wing has gotten a new Manga release which incorporates elements that were unique to certain side materials while retelling the original story. So that's neat. It's called Gundam Wing Endless Waltz: Glory of the Losers.
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Feb 5, 2025 16:16
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Wing is an incredibly bugfuck series that for some reason seems more and more relevant as time passes, particularly the parallels between the Romefeller Foundation (rich fucks that seek to automatize their brutal hold on power to the point of dismissing the traditional military goons they used for that purpose) and stuff like AI and drone warfare. 0079 is just good, you can tell that they needed to rush things at the end (though not to the extent of poor Witch from Mercury) but the Newtype stuff is compelling for all that it's been turned into a trope these days.
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Feb 6, 2025 01:27
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Wing is better watched in English because the voice acting runs the gamut from great performances to batshit insane "who the hell signed off on this take" line deliveries. The show's writing is already nutty so the bizarre English direction elevates it.
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Feb 6, 2025 19:37
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https://youtu.be/LtI0Aal3C6w
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Feb 6, 2025 21:14
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Traveller posted:Wing is an incredibly bugfuck series that for some reason seems more and more relevant as time passes, particularly the parallels between the Romefeller Foundation (rich fucks that seek to automatize their brutal hold on power to the point of dismissing the traditional military goons they used for that purpose) and stuff like AI and drone warfare. The Newtype stuff is fascinating considering how much psychic mind control child soldier poo poo went down irl in the Military Industrial Complex.
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Feb 7, 2025 01:16
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War and Pieces posted:The Newtype stuff is fascinating considering how much psychic mind control child soldier poo poo went down irl in the Military Industrial Complex. "We are at the edge of a literal next step in evolution but we keep getting dragged down by old assholes clinging to power and ruining any place we could live in" feels relevant y'know 
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Feb 8, 2025 04:57
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Anyone who grew up on sci-fi channel original movies should do themselves a favor and watch G-Saviour https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTVlrqpCSbo
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Feb 9, 2025 00:46
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Newtypes arent real. Its all Zeon propaganda.
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Feb 9, 2025 20:48
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im a cyber newtype
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Feb 10, 2025 01:08
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i'm an extremely old type
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Feb 10, 2025 01:14
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What type is the guy who screams "It's a GUNDAAAAAAM" right before being blown up?
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Feb 10, 2025 23:01
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Screamtype
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Feb 11, 2025 15:27
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He's in a symbiotic relationship with the guy who asks incredulously, "Is that thing a mobile suit?!"
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Feb 11, 2025 15:46
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Feb 11, 2025 18:16
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