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Feeling a bit overwhelmed and figured I would ask the last bastion of information (besides wikipedia) for some help since I have a snow day from work. poo poo has gotten stupid enough that I'm beginning looking into different places to live, how to start the process of that, and what place would want us. 1) As a filthy americano, where is the most reasonable place to go? Canada and Mexico seem like the easiest options (due to proximity), but are there any pro-tips on how to even just start the process? 2) are there places that allow a "work here for X amount of time and become a citizen" kind of places? Or even "work here, not a citizen, but get the benefits" (healthcare, not getting shot, govt not run by Nazis, etc). 3) Any small tips from people who have gone through this process? Like, make sure you do X at this point so it doesn't screw you later on. Important info: Spouse is a fed worker for SSA as a computer toucher, I am a Navy veteran and have a ton of random job experiences from swimming pool construction, gardening and house cleaning, to pharmaceutical QC tech. We have a medium dog who is the best dog. We own a small house with a small-ish mortgage left. We have zero debt and are DINK, 40 years young. Neither have criminal records. The dog may be a mole murderer, but was pardoned. I know the process can take a while, but I need to start somewhere and just want a jumping off point. Google is useless and with more and more govt processes getting hosed (and not in a good way) I'm going to use my snow day to focus on just...starting. Any help to just get my brain started on a path would help, just feel like I'm spinning my wheels because I don't have a direction. Thank you! Working hard! https://imgur.com/a/CgKROMV Laika having a snow day! I don't know how to get it to show in the post. 
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Feb 12, 2025 16:34
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My experience as a Brit doing the same thing in his 20s. You either; - Have to be a young graduate. A lot of countries have schemes specifically for grads, but they're usually for under a certain age. - If you graduate at a school in that country, a lot of countries have visas to allow pathways from local universities into work. Sorta a 'we trained them, why are we kicking them out?' deal. - Some countries will take people who have specific skills they lack and desperately need, but that normally tends to require a specific qualification as proof. 'Computer toucher' and 'random job experience' probably don't qualify. Businesses usually have to prove they couldn't hire domestically to do this, so either your skillset has to be incredibly rare, or the job so incredibly lovely no-one wants it. - Be rich as gently caress. What 'Rich as gently caress' means differs from country to country, but it probably isn't computer toucher& swimming pool fixer money anywhere unless your partner is touching some really fancy computers. - Have a family connection. Some countries will take people whose connection goes as far back as great grandparents. -Marry someone. - Be a refugee. If you're over 30, have a fairly regular job in an economically developed country and don't have a specialist qualification a country is desperate for, it probably ain't happening.
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Feb 12, 2025 20:17
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thanks! Thankfully my company is multi national, so i think that would be a good leg up. Maybe I'll browse some internal job postings. i still have some VA tuition left, might look into international student something or other too.
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Feb 12, 2025 21:27
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^^^ Yeah relocation though your employer is then your best bet, depending on how generous the package is they could take care of most of the bullshit Some EU countries will give you citizenship if your parents/grandparents were their citizens. Otherwise you might be able to get a work visa, residency and eventually citizenship. Keep in mind that the whole process is going to be pretty difficult and a huge pain in the rear end. It's expensive, you lose your friend and family connections, have to adjust to a different culture, learn a new language as an adult, might need to do low-level jobs instead of something you're qualified for, etc. I'd seriously think a bit more if it's really worth it, unless you're like a minority that Trump is going after and would be better off in your destination country (trans rights are pretty poo poo everywhere, even gay marriage isn't universal).
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Feb 12, 2025 21:33
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Amish Navy posted:2) are there places that allow a "work here for X amount of time and become a citizen" kind of places? Or even "work here, not a citizen, but get the benefits" (healthcare, not getting shot, govt not run by Nazis, etc). Yeah that's called residency. Not sure why people seem to believe the only way to move to a different country is if you already have citizenship, but for example I'm a permanent resident in Sweden and I've got full access to healthcare/govt benefits/etc. This might not apply to all countries, but at least a quick look at the Nordics/UK/Australia permanent residence entitlements all show the same thing. I even had health care coverage as a long term temporary resident here, but I think that varies more. The hardest part is getting a visa in the first place, then you have to stay a few years as a temporary resident before you can apply for permanent. I brought my doggo with me when I moved, you just need to fill some forms and go through special customs at the airport. Just make sure they're up to date on all their shots with the corresponding records, this might be problematic if you've swapped vets a lot in the past few years. I went the gradschool + local partner route, so I don't have much specific advice that would apply to you. Outside of going through your own company, best I can say is to start by applying for jobs and seeing if any companies bite, it might be hard but not impossible. Some companies might even have relocation benefits! I've done internships at tech companies here and there are a lot of immigrants from all over the world, but of course that comes with all the usual caveats about things differing country by country. Xun fucked around with this message at 14:54 on Feb 13, 2025 |
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Feb 13, 2025 14:51
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glad to hear that residency is pretty common. We have lived overseas before for 3 years, so it would be less culture shock, I hope. All predecessors back to the 1600s for me and to the early 1800 for the spouse, so no luck with the grandparents. thank you all for your words. I dont think this is a "move out next month" kind of thing, just wanting to have an idea of options. I figured more info earlier is always good to have. But if CA, WA, and OR finally decide to break away and form Cascadia, I'm in!
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Feb 14, 2025 02:56
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If you don't have any money and your house equity isn't worth a million dollars, internal transfer via your employer is your only real option. Do you have a military pension and want to really get away from it all? Move to the Pitcairn islands for free land! Your options to emigrate temporarily are generally much broader, if you just want to wait things out and have a little money. If you have a pension to live off of and can gin up about $250,000 in savings (that you keep), you can get a long term visitor visa in Japan that's good for at least six months and can be extended basically indefinitely. Can't work while on it. If you're willing to enroll in full time language classes there are many visa options available, including Germany and Taiwan, that will get you around two years. You could pay for the classes and just not attend. Canada has a study permit system that's basically designed and desperate to funnel through thousands of low-skill international students. C$19,000 (plus $18k in demonstrated savings, you can borrow this) will get you enrollment in a 99% remote bird course degree in hospitality management at some strip mall community college, and give you a year where you're allowed to work 20-40 hours/week. If you study something on the wanted skills list, it'll cost a lot more and require actual work but you can get a PR after and stay permanently. Hope your house has got $1,000,000 in equity because that's what you'll need to get another one. If you've got a lot of money or a successful small business then you have many more options. Lots of countries, e.g. Ireland, will sell you permanent residency for a nominal investment of a million dollars or so, that you can get back eventually. Or move your business there. Otherwise, if you were trying to immigrate to a developed country and work there on the strength of your resumé alone, it probably isn't happening without a secret PhD that you didn't tell us about.
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Feb 15, 2025 13:39
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As a computer toucher you have a fast track to a Blue Card in Europe, as long as you get a job offer >60KEUR or something like that, you get a simplified process for immigration and to permanent residency. The tech scene in Berlin is pretty much based on foreigners on this visa, most tech companies are willing to hire from abroad and assist with relocation and visa support. As an American you'll most certainly get interest from employers, especially if you have SV/FAANG experience. The economy isn't doing great, but I still see plenty of job postings so good luck! Just beware that tech salaries this side of the Atlantic are significantly lower than in the US, but you do get some benefits in exchange (healthcare/sick leave/pension).
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Feb 16, 2025 09:29
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Tbh not having to pay for health and car insurance, gas, and inflated American phone bills (I throw like 20bux at my provider every 3 months or so lol) really makes up for a lot salary wise. And yeah I think if you're a computer toucher the difficulty in getting a work visa is much less than impossible. I've met multiple people who grew up in poverty and they managed to immigrate on a work visa sponsored by a tech startup. While these guys were on the extreme end, most came from pretty normal backgrounds. Sure it's hard and takes some luck, but these are hardly people sitting on generational wealth, a spare 200k, or phds here. I've met tons of immigrants from literally all over.....except America. Through multiple internships, industrial and academic networking socials, my entire university department and a decent sampling of PhD students in the same area in the country, and multiple European academic conferences, I have met a total of 4 other American immigrants even if I include the one for studying. I wonder if it's partially because people get discouraged from even trying.
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Feb 17, 2025 01:41
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Xun posted:... There's an American guy sitting in my office right now. But I think he's here because of marriage and definitely an exception rather than the rule. Under normal circumstances I don't think it makes much sense really, if you can jump through all the hoops to get a computer job here, you could just do it in the US, not deal with all the hassle or sacrifice a big chunk of your income. Sure insurance etc, but that doesn't matter as much at six-figure incomes (which aren't six-figures here). It's not like we're less racist or transpohobic either.
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Feb 17, 2025 08:54
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This clearly can be done, especially with the possibility to transfer jobs. I've had 2 people in my life do this, with very different results. I don't mean to throw cold water on your plans here, but getting there is the easy part. A friend and her husband moved to Austria. She was a (German language) teacher here and was dissatisfied with the level of support she was getting from the local district during COVID. She had lived in Austria as a student for a year and loved it, and had long wanted to move back. They both spoke the language, and she had some friends there from her first time. We talk to her once a year around the holidays and they're still loving it just as much as when they first moved. I don't expect to see them back for more than a visit for a long time. My sister and her husband moved to Germany, with the intent of staying a long time. They're both world travelers, with him already having EU & US citizenship from birth, and her having spent multiple years living abroad as a student and an au pair (including in Germany), as well as countless trips to 6 of the 7 continents. They're both super fun to be around, and her in particular makes friends easily. They moved for adventure, political reasons, but also in the hopes of finding a place with less racial prejudice (he's Nigerian). They both had support from their well paying American jobs for moving. Long story short, they moved back after 3 years. It's HARD to uproot your life to a completely new place, especially a place where you have no history. It's isolating, and exhausting to go meet people, make friends, familiarize yourself with the cultures and customs of a new place, navigate bureaucracy of both your new country and the US, miss important events for friends and family back home, holidays, etc. That's easier if you're not across the Atlantic of course. Maybe you already live far away from where you grew up (or have other reasons for avoiding it), and this is less of a concern for you , but it took them both by surprise how many things they missed being away. All that said though, I don't think they feel like they made a mistake. They had an adventure, and learned a lot about a new place, and came back better for the experience. It just wasn't what they expected. Look, I don't know you or your situation. This is easy for me to say as a comfortably married cis white male in a liberal city. If you're feeling targeted (I suppose as a fed worker, that's probably true, but I'm more talking about being an immigrant, or a queer person, etc), and feeling like the country is going in the wrong direction (I certainly understand that), I totally get the impulse to want to go somewhere else. If you were already craving adventure abroad even before the election results, great! Even if not, I understand why making plans can feel like a way to seize control of a world that feels uncontrollable. So leave if you have to (or just are sure you want to) -- I won't judge! But if you think you can stay, the country and the civil service are going to need good people to stay. And leaving isn't a panacea. The world is a very connected place, and if things go really bad here, there will be impacts everywhere in the world. It is a very big deal to settle somewhere new, especially if you're going somewhere where you know no one, have no support, and maybe don't know the language. It can work, it is exciting, and it can be really fun too, but there are problems everywhere, and sometimes the better choice can be to stay and support the people you care about. Grumpwagon fucked around with this message at 15:35 on Feb 17, 2025 |
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Feb 17, 2025 15:32
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Thanks everyone for your amazing answers, perspectives, and sharing your experiences (even second hand ones). You've given me/us a lot to think on and I've been able to narrow down my focus on a couple different paths. I'm pretty willing to do just about any type of job, even manual labor. Hell, I'll learn about a place on the internet and give walking tours to stupid rich old white Americans consider McDonalds germany foreign and "just want some one to speak without an accent". Not that I want to do that, but, you know, money is money. Honestly, that sounds like fun...maybe I can do that here where I live... For now, I think it is pre-planning time. Hunker down, research, help resist. Good luck out there.
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Feb 19, 2025 21:33
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mobby_6kl posted:Keep in mind that the whole process is going to be pretty difficult and a huge pain in the rear end. It's expensive To emphasise this, my wife is (now) a British citizen, she moved here from America, and the visa/ILR (UK version of green card) process cost us about £10,000 (maybe $12-13k US) over five years. And marriage is the 'easy' route. The problem you are going to face I'm afraid is nobody is going to want to let you into their country (legally) to do manual labour, that's easy to find already. Bringing your doggo to the UK (or Ireland afaik) specifically would be an involved process involving vet visits and certificates and suchlike because we don't have rabies over here and we'd like to keep it that way. Probably cost you a couple of grand at least. feedmegin fucked around with this message at 12:46 on Feb 20, 2025 |
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Feb 20, 2025 12:42
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I moved from the UK to Canada so can talk about crossing that particular border a little bit. Some countries have reciprocal working holiday visa programs where if you're under a certain age you can just apply for one and (subject to details which vary by country, usually the maximum age is 30 or 35, maybe no restrictions on numbers, maybe there's a lottery / limit on them) receive a one or two year work permit which would allow you to do most things. The USA is not one of those countries. Federally, the primary program is called Express Entry (really this is the name of the electronic application system that was brought a decade or so ago). You can read about this here. The short, summary, not necessarily 100% but mostly right except for edge cases is that you will need to be younger than you are, have a few years of professional work experience, ideally obtained in Canada, a master's degree, ideally obtained in Canada, and some French language skills to be picked from the pool of applicants today; there are lots of people interested and you have to be somewhat remarkable to run that particular gauntlet. You have to be very remarkable to do so without having spent any time doing something useful in Canada and so coming here for a period on a temporary basis (be it as a student, temporary worker etc) is...not absolutely a prerequisite, but probably so if you're "normal". There are a number of more niche federal programs that target people with particular characteristics (French language skills, willingness to move to particular places etc). There may be some options for you there like the Atlantic Immigration Program. The key of course to the geographic programs is that these are usually places which do not naturally receive a lot of immigration, usually for good reasons (remote, economic challenges, regressive or unwelcoming social climates unless you are X sort of person etc) so you may or may not consider participating in one to be wise. Still, they do exist, if you're willing to consider a life and lifestyle change significantly beyond what is normal for the regular pattern of "new US president came in; I'm moving to Canada" people. Individual provinces also operate their own programs; these will usually be a mirror of the federal situation in that there will be a combination of general and specialized pathways. They are all different but some example targets are healthcare workers, low-level tourism industry employees, food processing workers, people with family members already in the province. If you look up "[Canadian province] PNP" you will be able to spot their websites easily enough. In the broad sense the provincial programs are much more focused on preventing people who are already in the specific province and have a job that they are currently doing from having to leave; if you are outside of Canada and don't have a job offer your options for going that route a more limited (though not zero depending on your specific circumstances). My own personal example is that I came to Canada from the UK just under 8 years ago on a 2-year working holiday visa with very little money, many educations but no actual formal qualifications (due to: broke), worked in tourism jobs for a period, happened to after a few months get a new job working for another tourism industry company which did not take advantage of the fact that I had a desire to stay in Canada to abuse the poo poo out of me (this is fairly rare), had the infrastructure (not super rare, but not universal) and willingness to support peoples' British Columbia PNP applications, applied under a PNP stream which accepts a few hundred people per year, was accepted by the skin of my teeth (in fact I am under the impression that the required score for people on the particular program I applied to was lowered for one month specifically for me, because I had a somewhat unusual work history and location and background), and over the course of about 18 months did the paperwork and was granted permanent residency. You would not be able to even apply for the WHV by virtue of being from the US and nowhere else, probably wouldn't be willing to live in the places I've lived (and continue to live) in any case, and so should consider it not relevant to your specific circumstances. It is however illustrative of the needle you have to thread to make a move like this as a regular unremarkable chump. There may be some IT-focused options that your wife could take advantage of but the couple that I'm aware of having existed in the past no longer do. So, on the whole: not impossible to do, but you'd be targeting the edge case situations and it would be risky and disruptive to your life. And, in the end it ain't gonna save you from chuds, buddy, we got plenty of those too.
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Feb 20, 2025 23:39
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Amish Navy posted:But if CA, WA, and OR finally decide to break away and form Cascadia, I'm in! Not going to happen
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Feb 25, 2025 21:12
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The tiny island state of Nauru is selling passports for just over $100k, and claims it gets you visa-free entry to the UK and Ireland.
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Feb 26, 2025 11:23
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Op, perhaps you already know this, but even if you leave Americastan, uncle Sam will still chase the poo poo out of you for income tax purposes. Though maybe it will take them longer to find you now that the irs is "more efficient ".
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Mar 2, 2025 02:33
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First I would recommend getting a passport if you don't already have one. You just go to the post office, pay (I forget, $40?) and file. It takes a few weeks/month or two, to get it. If you have any Italian or Portugal ancestry, I think there are other counties that allow citizenship if you can prove your family came from there. https://www.italiandualcitizenship.net/italian-citizenship-by-descent/ I'm in the process of moving to another continent, but just need to warn you, poo poo is expensive. It is $3,000-$6,000 to have a pet sent. $10,000-$15,000 to have a shipping container worth of stuff sent. Airplane tickets around >$1,000 This video is slightly related, and is just good advise for everyone, even if you aren't trying to move out. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ihrGNGesfI
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Mar 2, 2025 16:33
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I am also in the process of doing this right now - we are going to Portugal in 2 weeks to stay. I looked at several different options before we landed on the one we are doing. I guess one question in my mind is do you have savings? You said your co is multinational - what do you do for them rn? That might help me give better advice.
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Mar 6, 2025 02:48
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bro have you looked at Australia? we have indians coming in by the boat load and i’m sure they’re not as qualified as you are.
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Mar 8, 2025 03:33
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hallo spacedog posted:I am also in the process of doing this right now - we are going to Portugal in 2 weeks to stay. I looked at several different options before we landed on the one we are doing. I guess one question in my mind is do you have savings? You said your co is multinational - what do you do for them rn? That might help me give better advice. Maybe too late for you but, for anyone else: don't move anything internationally that isn't clothes and irreplaceable keepsakes. Just sell everything you have and buy it all new when you get there. Shipping is insanely expensive and you most likely will have half as much space as you did in the states. Especially don't get a storage locker and pretend you'll come back for it. You'll just pay for a lot longer than you originally planned and when you finally come back for it, it's a bunch of crap that goes to Goodwill and maybe a couple things you want to save (ask me how I know). It's not fun but culling your possessions down to the minimum will save you so much money and energy.
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Mar 8, 2025 09:51
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greazeball posted:Maybe too late for you but, for anyone else: don't move anything internationally that isn't clothes and irreplaceable keepsakes. Just sell everything you have and buy it all new when you get there. Shipping is insanely expensive and you most likely will have half as much space as you did in the states. Especially don't get a storage locker and pretend you'll come back for it. You'll just pay for a lot longer than you originally planned and when you finally come back for it, it's a bunch of crap that goes to Goodwill and maybe a couple things you want to save (ask me how I know). Already done and done on this end, gave everything replaceable away
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Mar 8, 2025 15:00
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Fozzy The Bear posted:If you have any Italian or Portugal ancestry, I think there are other counties that allow citizenship if you can prove your family came from there. Update on this: Italy spiked the hell out of jus sanguinis a few days ago, and international applications for ancestral citizenship are paused indefinitely. I wouldn’t consider an Italian passport viable anymore.
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Apr 2, 2025 12:00
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How do you feel about extreme climates? Specifically arctic weather? We are talking very, very extreme here. Anyway, I think, but I may be wrong, that Svalbard is more or less open for immigration? Some weird loopholes exist that lets you move there, but I am not exactly sure what they are.
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Apr 29, 2025 12:04
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BattyKiara posted:How do you feel about extreme climates? Specifically arctic weather? We are talking very, very extreme here. that might be a bit too X-treme! for me. I hear you can buy a house in japan for like a dollar, so maybe i'll just do that. I'm just worried, especially since it seems literally impossible to do unless you have enough money. I hate it. I dont believe in the concept of borders anyway, I want humans to be able to move where ever the gently caress they want.
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May 9, 2025 16:57
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Amish Navy posted:that might be a bit too X-treme! for me. I hear you can buy a house in japan for like a dollar, so maybe i'll just do that. Fun fact, the Japanese house buying thing does not come with any kind of permission to actually live or move there at all
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May 9, 2025 17:39
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Farter posted:bro have you looked at Australia? we have indians coming in by the boat load and i’m sure they’re not as qualified as you are. Yikes. Um, not helping your country's reputation here, ngl.
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May 10, 2025 09:17
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hallo spacedog posted:Fun fact, the Japanese house buying thing does not come with any kind of permission to actually live or move there at all Also they're not exactly houses that you'd want to live in, there's a reason why no one wants them and the costs involved to actually make it livable would probably be more expensive than just buying a normal house or flat in a slightly more desirable area. You'd essentially be throwing good money after bad. You could probably buy a house in the middle of west Texas for $1 as well and have a similar experience.
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May 11, 2025 14:58
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Original_Z posted:Also they're not exactly houses that you'd want to live in, there's a reason why no one wants them and the costs involved to actually make it livable would probably be more expensive than just buying a normal house or flat in a slightly more desirable area. You'd essentially be throwing good money after bad. You could probably buy a house in the middle of west Texas for $1 as well and have a similar experience. But then you'd live in West Texas, and I think the express purpose of this thread is to find a way to not have to do that
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May 11, 2025 16:40
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EricBauman posted:But then you'd live in West Texas, and I think the express purpose of this thread is to find a way to not have to do that How do you feel about Bay City
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May 11, 2025 20:08
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EricBauman posted:But then you'd live in West Texas, and I think the express purpose of this thread is to find a way to not have to do that But the thing is there's literally no way to even live in the poo poo hole pit of a house you buy in Japan either.
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May 11, 2025 20:34
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Canadian moved to Australia. Skilled worker and I have a PhD and my skills are all focused on working at the university I currently work at. Not much transferable there but I can tell you a few things based on my experiences and talking with people. Australia is off the table if you want to keep your dog. Moving a pet to Australia is possible but mind-bendingly expensive and complicated. I know another academic who moved here from the UK - both countries that loudly proclaim themselves free of rabies - and they loved their dog so they spend more than $20K to bring the child-biting, anxiety-riddled, inbred thing here (yes, it bit a child, and drew blood. I don't know more than that. Here in Australia. Their solution was to stop letting anyone visit their house.). Quarantine can be 6 months, vet records have to be focused on the move and extend back more than a year (the vet has to know you want to move the dog to Australia, and the vet has to make specific reports for this purpose). As a Canadian, my view of the Canadian immigration and visa system is 100% second-hand. I think your best option, by far, is an internal transfer within the multinational company you work for. My father worked for Shell when I was growing up, we moved to England (twice) and he travelled more or less constantly. A couple of decades later I was doing some research in Canada that happened to be on a site owned by Shell, and they sent someone to look after us. He was American but was taking advantage of Shell's international focus to get some international experience - within that company, time spent in another country's Shell offices is considered valuable career-building and looks good on internal applications for transfer or promotion. I did not get the impression that this man was seriously considering moving to Peace River, Alberta, but he was interesting to talk to. If your company has a similar aspect to its internal culture and policies, make sure you let your supervisor know you are interested in travel. Getting a temporary transfer to, say, Canada, will allow you to apply for a variety of programs and visa options that are only open to those who are already physically present in the country. I applied for PR in Australia about 2 months ago. Amusingly, the page of questions that you really should say "NO" to all of them includes one question about experience and expertise with explosives, for example, as a member of the military of another country. I don't think saying "Yes" to that one is as bad as saying "Yes" to some of the other questions on that page ("Are you wanted for international crimes such as piracy or human trafficking?" "Were you involved or accused of involvement in any war crimes or crimes against humanity such as genocide?").
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Nov 5, 2025 01:55
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ambassadorofsodomy posted:Op, perhaps you already know this, but even if you leave Americastan, uncle Sam will still chase the poo poo out of you for income tax purposes. If you move to a place with a tax treaty with the US, you just owe the balance between the income tax you paid in your country of residence and the US. In my case Sweden's tax is higher than US, so I just had to file my tax return but not need to pay anything.
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Nov 7, 2025 04:14
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luminalflux posted:If you move to a place with a tax treaty with the US, you just owe the balance between the income tax you paid in your country of residence and the US. In my case Sweden's tax is higher than US, so I just had to file my tax return but not need to pay anything. So how do you feel about doing anything more complicated with your money for retirement other than letting it sit in a savings account  I'm being serious, by the letter of the law even your swedish pension plan probably requires extra paperwork and forms due to PFICs but I think the IRS looks the other way for those. I got a small windfall and was gona try to invest it through SEBs basic service for babies and surprise every single thing would have required extra paperwork or extra taxes. Xun fucked around with this message at 05:24 on Nov 7, 2025 |
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Nov 7, 2025 05:20
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Xun posted:So how do you feel about doing anything more complicated with your money for retirement other than letting it sit in a savings account On the reverse side, there's the fun complication of how a 401(k) or Roth IRA gets taxed in sweden. Or SSI. Or a US pension. My folks have dealt a bit with this but it's washed over me when they've explained it.
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Nov 8, 2025 02:04
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