|
Fil5000 posted:"Jovanka? Oh, are you a... Slav?" Tegan: Do you mean... sav? Doctor, they're okay, they're having a sausage sizzle! 
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2025 08:43
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 18, 2025 16:49 |
|
|
Doctor Who reviews, Daleks made of people edition Revelation of the Daleks: Amazing how much of a gulf there can be between a Doctor Who writer’s best and worst stories. This sells the horror of being turned into a monster far better than Attack of the Cybermen did. (And Earthshock didn’t even try, weirdly enough.) It definitely sells the idea that the Sixth Doctor and Peri don’t completely hate each other far better than Attack of the Cybermen did. (To be fair to Saward-as-writer, that’s only to be expected, as Attack of the Cybermen is set right after The Twin Dilemma. But that’s partly Saward-as-script-editor’s fault to begin with.) I think Saward is better at dark comedy than at straight-faced dark action-adventure. I love when Doctor Who mashes together several existing stories that have nothing to do with each other like this. In this case it’s Soylent Green, Don Quixote, Return of the Jedi, and Evelyn Waugh’s The Loved One (which Saward read while on vacation in Rhodes right before he wrote this). Perhaps it’s because I haven’t seen Destiny of the Daleks or Resurrection of the Daleks yet, but I’m not sure I completely understand Davros’ motivations at this point. It feels like he’s become a Master-style villain who’s more obsessed with the Doctor than with his nominal goals. He isn’t really being used to make a serious commentary on fascism anymore. He’s more fun this way, though. Rating: 4/5. Minor observations:
Asylum of the Daleks: I’m fed up with the Amy/Rory relationship drama; every time the show goes there, it makes Amy a bit more unsympathetic. Also, Oswin is a less interesting character than the real Clara will turn out to be; she has basically two character traits (flirty, likes souffles) that get reiterated over and over. Characterization aside, the basic plot here is fine, I guess, if a bit standard; the power of emotions and a side-character’s self-sacrifice save the day. The usual criticism of this story is that Oswin hacking the path-web was a deus ex machina because the path-web had never been mentioned before. I was about to say that the path-web was mentioned earlier in the episode… And then I checked the transcript. No it wasn’t! The path-web comes out of nowhere! Though to be fair, the episode had plenty of examples of Dalek technology messing with people’s memories, so maybe it’s not too much of a stretch to use Dalek technology to mess with Daleks’ memories… Who am I kidding? It’s a shameless deus ex machina. Rating: 2/5. Minor observations:
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2025 12:29
|
|
|
Asylum of the Dalek's always read more like a Cyberman story to me than a Dalek one. In fact, I've always thought that Moffat didnt really "get" Dalek's with the bits of lore he added in.
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2025 12:39
|
|
|
 Pertwee with James Doohan and George Takei at the British launch party of The Sci-Fi Channel in 1995. Pretty neat.
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2025 12:51
|
|
|
PriorMarcus posted:Asylum of the Dalek's always read more like a Cyberman story to me than a Dalek one. In fact, I've always thought that Moffat didnt really "get" Dalek's with the bits of lore he added in. It’s funny how, despite their seemingly opposite concepts (as a commenter on Elizabeth Sandifer’s site put it, the Daleks are all-rejecting and the Cybermen are all-embracing) they tend to be somewhat interchangeable in practice. In addition to all the stories where Daleks turn people into Daleks, Daleks are presented as “logical” robots, and Cybermen spitefully massacre people, the new series has the Master appear alongside the Cybermen so often (and even create new types of Cybermen) that he/she almost feels like their version of Davros. Silver2195 fucked around with this message at 14:02 on Apr 15, 2025 |
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2025 13:05
|
|
|
Fil5000 posted:"Jovanka? Oh, are you a... Slav?" Davison's dad, Claude Moffet, was Afro-Guyanese 
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2025 15:01
|
|
|
DoctorWhat posted:Davison's dad, Claude Moffet, was Afro-Guyanese Huh, I did not know that! Davison in his cricket whites (and in All Creatures Great And Small) is pretty much the prototypical Edwardian era second child of an aristocratic family.
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2025 15:11
|
|
|
Actually, you know what's an interesting story to do the "what if there were a different Doctor in it?" exercise in? Human Nature, because they already did it with two Doctors and it worked great both times.
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2025 15:31
|
|
|
Warthur posted:Actually, you know what's an interesting story to do the "what if there were a different Doctor in it?" exercise in? Human Nature, because they already did it with two Doctors and it worked great both times. There's some doctors like 4 where I can't imagine them being able to actually suppress/remove the original personality to make the episode work. And Pertwee would be doing some insufferable character work for it and a stupid voice. Six as an edwardian teacher though? Yeah I'd watch that.
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2025 20:37
|
|
|
having the "nurse" be somebody who is actively hostile to the doctor and is narratively maybe the one in the "right" is exactly the kind of narrative that did turn off a fair amount of fans, and one of the reasons why the show will get shut down for a time. It's fine. We have a fan in this thread losing their poo poo over the cat dying for a split second on screen. Looking back, this show for the last 20 years will be a major example of the vibes and sensibility of this 20 year old time period. We are lucky to have so many amazing doctors and episodes. The worst doctor of this era was still great, even if the writing on almost all the episodes featuring her were the worst. (there are what, three good episodes from her era? Maybe four?). Last season was a return to fun but narratively a mess, and while I like the plot of this episode more the show really needs to make sure it doesn't do current hot topic social issues "smugly". (It isn't, but it feels like it's flirting with the idea).
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2025 20:50
|
|
|
Honestly, the show needs to get to a script editor model and move away from the showrunner model. It just seems so...poorly run right now. You want the youth to join in? Advertise the show, make it an event, THEN release it on iplayer after the TV airing. Have more horror episodes - bring back the "hiding behind the sofa" element. Have a Dalek episode this season and advertise it. Anyway, I picked up The Eleven on sale last week. One of the first pandemic boxsets, this sees the Sixth Doctor and Constance fight the Eleven. There's not masses to say about this - Mark Bonnar is comfortable with the part by now and gives a good performance, Colin Baker is good as always. At times it gets a bit confused, and the idea of a race who naturally have two personalities co-existing isn't really explored much. However, there's some interesting stuff about the Eleven's complicated relationship with his other selves, and the third episode has a great twist. However, having a Sixth Doctor story where the Doctor is entirely absent from the second episode doesn't quite work. It's certainly a more coherent story than Dark Universe, but the Eleven has better stories elsewhere.
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2025 21:28
|
|
|
Mrs Flood this episode https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6jYoagXmZE
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2025 22:09
|
|
|
Bicyclops posted:I'd love to watch any Doctor, in their prime, just be inserted into the episode for another Doctor. Patrick Troughton doing Matt Smith episodes. Peter Capaldi doing Peter Davison episodes. Ncuti Gatwa doing David Tennant's full run. Tom Baker just doing every single episode of Doctor Who. Obviously there's no way to do it without getting into Hotel Reverie territory, but it's fun to imagine. BF's Main Range did an arc, 197-200 that follows this trope. I enjoyed it although I wish they'd done actual stories (and not had the big bad be the monk, that's not really his thing...but his pathos is good albeit confusing as hell for the Doctors since he is mad at 8 . 200 is my favorite by far but that might just be down to enjoying the characters more. They've done Past Doctors/Future Monsters and the above....I am honestly surprised they haven't re-done an actual story arc.
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2025 23:36
|
|
|
I've always loved the idea of 2 in Day of the Moon, sitting in that Government facility panicking as he gasps and yells that they're surrounding him in zero balance dwarf star alloy... and then pausing, smirking and quietly noting,"It still won't be enough  "Plus you could have Jamie and Zoe running around the countryside being chased by men in rubber suits!  Although the "You should kill us all on sight!" resolution would also fit right in with 7.
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2025 00:04
|
|
|
McGann posted:BF's Main Range did an arc, 197-200 that follows this trope. I enjoyed it although I wish they'd done actual stories (and not had the big bad be the monk, that's not really his thing...but his pathos is good albeit confusing as hell for the Doctors since he is mad at 8 . Actually, they did something like that with Return to Shada.
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2025 00:47
|
|
|
I’d rather imagine all the past Doctor episodes where we’d get great stories with Jodie Whitaker and Ncuti Gatwa, especially as we got almost no actual great stories with Whitaker and almost certainly aren’t getting enough Gatwa episodes. Imagine Thirteen with Sarah Jane Smith and Harry Sullivan, or Fifteen with Liz Shaw.
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2025 05:10
|
|
|
13 with Tegan, Nyssa and Adric squabbling in the background and sighing,"Next time, just the one companion..." 15 strolling into a weirdo dinner party at a mansion in Perivale while helping Ace look into her childhood trauma 
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2025 05:15
|
|
|
Narsham posted:...and almost certainly aren’t getting enough Gatwa episodes. Spoilers for this season... He isn't even in Episode 4. It's entirely Ruby focused and sets up whatever is happening back on Earth.
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2025 09:30
|
|
|
I'm watching Terror of the Vervoids at the moment and I've got a dilemma: Are the Vervoids more penis-like or more vagina-like?
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2025 10:36
|
|
|
Yes.
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2025 11:31
|
|
|
Doctor Spaceman posted:I'm watching Terror of the Vervoids at the moment and I've got a dilemma: Depends on the mood, and, critically how much I've had to drink
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2025 14:18
|
|
|
Fil5000 posted:There's some doctors like 4 where I can't imagine them being able to actually suppress/remove the original personality to make the episode work. And Pertwee would be doing some insufferable character work for it and a stupid voice. Six as an edwardian teacher though? Yeah I'd watch that. Oh, for 4 you don't have the Doctor do it. Romana's been Chameleon Arched and believes she's an Edwardian teacher, the Doctor's infiltrated as the new gardener to keep an eye on things.
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2025 14:41
|
|
|
Warthur posted:Oh, for 4 you don't have the Doctor do it. Romana's been Chameleon Arched and believes she's an Edwardian teacher, the Doctor's infiltrated as the new gardener to keep an eye on things. I guess that's also the solution for 3. But again you have the problem of Pertwee just doing Worzel Gummige.
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2025 14:46
|
|
|
Fil5000 posted:I guess that's also the solution for 3. But again you have the problem of Pertwee just doing Worzel Gummige. - Master is the headmaster of school and isn't Arched. - Doctor is Arched and is "on his final warning" with the head, so the Master is keeping an eye on him and there's a stern reminder to Pertwee that his character's meant to be trying to stay on the straight and narrow, so no comedy schtick. - It's revealed that the Master was responsible for Arching the Doctor; his plan is to simply sell the Arched Doctor to the Aubertides having arranged the deal earlier, the school being the agreed handover spot because there's temporal interference shielding that particular time and place from Time Lord supervision. - The Master realises he's made a terrible mistake when he clocks to what the Aubertides actually want to do - but Jo, who's managed to tag along and keep out of sight, manages to get the Doctor's pocketwatch to him and restores him in the nick of time.
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2025 15:03
|
|
|
Warthur posted:So my solution for 3 is this: Love it, now if you can just travel back to season 8 and get an extra serial budgeted and this script to Barry Letts...
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2025 15:15
|
|
|
Warthur posted:the Doctor's infiltrated as the new gardener Turns out that was just a happy coincidence, rather than a plan! Warthur posted:The Master realises he's made a terrible mistake when he clocks to what the Aubertides actually want to do Perfection 
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2025 15:40
|
|
|
The one I'd kind of love to see is Seven and the Brigadier in The End of Time, mostly because I want to hear Sylvester McCoy all BACK TO HELL WITH YOU, RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRASSILON
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2025 16:10
|
|
|
Fil5000 posted:Love it, now if you can just travel back to season 8 and get an extra serial budgeted and this script to Barry Letts...
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2025 16:44
|
|
|
LionArcher posted:having the "nurse" be somebody who is actively hostile to the doctor and is narratively maybe the one in the "right" is exactly the kind of narrative that did turn off a fair amount of fans, and one of the reasons why the show will get shut down for a time. It's fine. We have a fan in this thread losing their poo poo over the cat dying for a split second on screen. Looking back, this show for the last 20 years will be a major example of the vibes and sensibility of this 20 year old time period. We are lucky to have so many amazing doctors and episodes. The worst doctor of this era was still great, even if the writing on almost all the episodes featuring her were the worst. (there are what, three good episodes from her era? Maybe four?). Last season was a return to fun but narratively a mess, and while I like the plot of this episode more the show really needs to make sure it doesn't do current hot topic social issues "smugly". (It isn't, but it feels like it's flirting with the idea). Just as a reminder if you look back at enough of these threads someone wanted David Tennant tried at the Hague for following orders and I am only slightly exaggerating. Fans will adapt or we'll find better fans (with blackjack and hookers.) Doctor Who will survive, hell we might get another season of Gatwa and it will be awesome. The BBC won't give up the one thing that probably makes them international money.
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2025 19:43
|
|
|
Warthur posted:And steal Paul Cornell's credit? What a horrid breach of time travel etiquette! Pertwee era is entirely appropriate for taking stuff that isn't yours.
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2025 19:59
|
|
|
I love this ridiculous TV show and I hope that it gets more seasons, less space between seasons, and, maybe most importantly, more episodes per season. (plus Christmas!) Still, I wouldn't wish on a monkey's paw for it. The biggest worry I have for Doctor Who is that somebody realizes it has an okay brand and it gets focus-grouped into not being weird. Whatever problems Davies has as a writer, he took a huge chunk of Disney money and used it to do a primal scream to advocate for LGBTQIA rights, and I'm sort of worried that the reason he has to go elsewhere is that Disney is changing its mind is that they don't care do that anymore. I will watch low-budget Doctor Who. I just hope there is such a thing.
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2025 22:07
|
|
|
Bicyclops posted:I love this ridiculous TV show and I hope that it gets more seasons, less space between seasons, and, maybe most importantly, more episodes per season. I honestly don't know if the beeb can make low budget Who any more. When it was huge and had television centre full of props and costumes and people at various stages of their career that they could throw at Who. There's a floor on the budget you need to make even a low budget Sci fi show and they can't mitigate and amortise those costs the way they could.
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2025 22:17
|
|
|
Fil5000 posted:I honestly don't know if the beeb can make low budget Who any more. When it was huge and had television centre full of props and costumes and people at various stages of their career that they could throw at Who. There's a floor on the budget you need to make even a low budget Sci fi show and they can't mitigate and amortise those costs the way they could. Yeah, there are no low budget tv programmes any more, and Doctor Who will never be a low budget show now. Something simple like a cop show will be the lower end of a drama budget, they can reuse locations, have minimal inside set (offices, maybe a corridor or two), minimal FX, and requires nothing special in terms of props, wardrobe, or vehicles hired. Doctor Who needs new locations every time, wildly extravagant sets, props and costumes that have to be created from scratch every time, plus now it needs CGI and decent-looking FX. It’s no surprise that all costs ££££££ these days. At a stretch, you could maybe do an TARDIS has gone awol Earth-set season, put the Doctor back at UNIT, reuse the HQ set, and then location filming around the UK. Rubber monsters are probablycheaper than CGI, depending on what you can get away with. Human monsters, even cheaper. There’s ways around it, but I think the season would suffer completely.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2025 00:25
|
|
|
The_Doctor posted:Yeah, there are no low budget tv programmes any more, and Doctor Who will never be a low budget show now. Wellington Paranormal was a great low budget show. Let TVNZ have Doctor Who for a while.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2025 00:36
|
|
|
Go back towards the serial model a bit, then they only need three or four sets of locations and costumes and stuff per year.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2025 00:38
|
|
|
Deformed Church posted:Go back towards the serial model a bit, then they only need three or four sets of locations and costumes and stuff per year. *taps thread title*
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2025 00:38
|
|
|
I want cheaper shows, that look worse, and have no or 1998 VFX, with longer seasons written by a bunch of different writers. So many shows with extravagant budgets and it's like, y'all coulda done this in any field or thicket with recycled costumes.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2025 01:36
|
|
|
Doctor Who as a tokusatsu show, fair enough.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2025 01:43
|
|
|
I don't know how much bigger the budget of 13-14-15 was vs what came before, but the late 12 era looked great. Sure, it didn't quite have that PRESTIGE TV sheen, but it was the absolute peak of genre TV. You had an improbable parade of talented directors working on the show that really let it punch above its weight.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2025 01:48
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 18, 2025 16:49 |
|
|
Thranguy posted:Wellington Paranormal was a great low budget show. Let TVNZ have Doctor Who for a while. This reminds me, we never got that Peter Jackson directed episode that Moffat personally promised me 
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2025 01:53
|
|