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The_Doctor posted:Doctor Who as a tokusatsu show, fair enough. Meanwhile on No. 1 Sentai Gozyuger...  (He's an archeologist to boot)
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Apr 17, 2025 02:16
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LionArcher posted:having the "nurse" be somebody who is actively hostile to the doctor and is narratively maybe the one in the "right" is exactly the kind of narrative that did turn off a fair amount of fans, and one of the reasons why the show will get shut down for a time. It's fine. We have a fan in this thread losing their poo poo over the cat dying for a split second on screen. Looking back, this show for the last 20 years will be a major example of the vibes and sensibility of this 20 year old time period. We are lucky to have so many amazing doctors and episodes. The worst doctor of this era was still great, even if the writing on almost all the episodes featuring her were the worst. (there are what, three good episodes from her era? Maybe four?). Last season was a return to fun but narratively a mess, and while I like the plot of this episode more the show really needs to make sure it doesn't do current hot topic social issues "smugly". (It isn't, but it feels like it's flirting with the idea).
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Apr 17, 2025 02:38
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The_Doctor posted:Yeah, there are no low budget tv programmes any more, and Doctor Who will never be a low budget show now. And as long as we all keep reaffirming that to ourselves and each other and nobody dares experiment, we can make sure that stays true forever!
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Apr 17, 2025 08:49
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It is really hard to do anything low budget anymore. MST3K's revival was loaded with difficulties.
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Apr 17, 2025 13:06
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Bicyclops posted:huge chunk of Disney money and used it to do a primal scream to advocate for LGBTQIA rights, Has he? Rogue was utterly embarrassingly bad and felt like fan fic. And Donna's daughter felt more like RTD going "how do you do fellow progressive young people" rather than actually writing her as a character at the end of The Star Beast.
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Apr 17, 2025 13:08
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OldMemes posted:Has he? Rogue was utterly embarrassingly bad and felt like fan fic. And Donna's daughter felt more like RTD going "how do you do fellow progressive young people" rather than actually writing her as a character at the end of The Star Beast. …you don’t know much about RTD, do you?
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Apr 17, 2025 13:33
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Thranguy posted:Wellington Paranormal was a great low budget show. Let TVNZ have Doctor Who for a while. I would actually be okay with a low budget series following a lovely B team of unit operatives, done in the style. Do the "we just showed up last minute and JUST MISSED some huge Doctor event periodically as an ongoing joke as to why we never see much action.
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Apr 17, 2025 13:40
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The_Doctor posted:…you don’t know much about RTD, do you? Davies is gay, but he’s also a cis man whose handling of trans issues in the past hasn’t always been great.
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Apr 17, 2025 13:43
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I liked Rogue, the only real stinker was those 'make-identified timelord' and non-binary thinking lines, which were well meaning but deeply cringe
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Apr 17, 2025 13:51
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The_Doctor posted:…you don’t know much about RTD, do you? What am I missing? He doesn't get graded on a curve because of his attributes, he gets graded on the show he presents. Orville did trans issues better than he ever has. When you're losing to Seth MacFarlane on social issues, you maybe aren't knocking it out of the park. He's trying though, points for that. Like a B-/C+.
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Apr 17, 2025 14:02
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The whole "unplanned" writing didn't work a chunk of the time the first time round, and that style is REALLY showing the cracks now it's not RTD 1 anymore.No Dignity posted:I liked Rogue, the only real stinker was those 'make-identified timelord' and non-binary thinking lines, which were well meaning but deeply cringe Rogue seemed to have no substance aside from Davies thinking it would totally own the public by having the Doctor kiss a man (again, it was 2025, most people watching Who aren't going to be fussed). The Doctor having romance with a human is just off and comes across as creepy because of the power imbalance, let alone some one dimensional bounty hunter who didn't have any character traits. That and the constant references to Bridgerton (again, felt very "how do you do young people" and trend chasing), the utter waste of money to hire Richard E Grant for new headshots so RTD could do some "haha le epic troll XD" nonsense for continuity, the monsters playing it like they're in a CBBC episode, and the whitewashing of the complex nature of race and privilege in Regency England to present a Bridgerton clone (after Dot and Bubble had dealt with the issue in way that was well done and clevery embedded in the story). That and after a few very good episodes of his performance of the Doctor, it felt like Gatwa was being told just to be himself. It seems that RTD is just spread way too thin. For all the talk of "newness", series 1 felt like a big step backwards in a lot of ways.
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Apr 17, 2025 14:25
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why have you decided that the doctor kissing a man was supposed to be an epic own? why is it creepy for the doctor to be romantic with a man when the character has been on screen romantic with women for decades
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Apr 17, 2025 14:32
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flatluigi posted:why have you decided that the doctor kissing a man was supposed to be an epic own? why is it creepy for the doctor to be romantic with a man when the character has been on screen romantic with women for decades It's creepy when the Doctor has romantic scenes with human women too. In universe, the power balance is wierd regardless of gender - it feels like the Doctor should be above romancing humans. At least with River, she wasn't human, had an actual character and had time to develop as one. Given RTD2's obession with trying to wind up certain right wingers (who aren't watching anyway), it feels like stale idea from 2008 (what if Doctor....kiss a man?! there will be much pearl clutching!!!) combined with the fact that a. people who watch Doctor Who aren't likely to be bothered by queer content on TV and b. Rogue was such an awful dull character (let's recycle Captain Jack!) that it seems like it was thrown in to try and get the attention of the right wing clickbait machine than actually having him as a character. It feels like RTD2 is stale. For all the talk of "newness", it feels like this cycle is still stuck in the past in terms of story telling and direction.
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Apr 17, 2025 14:40
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can you explain why you think the show is written progressively as an epic own without saying it's because the show is written progressively as an epic own
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Apr 17, 2025 14:50
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I didn’t see Rogue as trying to own the right-wingers. I’m not a fan of the Doctor having romantic relationships with humans either, although Fifteen/Rogue at least feels less skeevy than Ten/Rose (or Two/Jamie).
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Apr 17, 2025 14:50
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Silver2195 posted:I didn’t see Rogue as trying to own the right-wingers. I’m not a fan of the Doctor having romantic relationships with humans either, although Fifteen/Rogue at least feels less skeevy than Ten/Rose (or Two/Jamie). It's definitely Davies writing some of his own fantasies IMO, lol. I just think doing a bombastic, slapdash, very gay show with Disney money is a bolder move than people are making it out to be, clumsy and tropey though the writing often is.
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Apr 17, 2025 14:59
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Also, Rogue was never stated to be human.
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Apr 17, 2025 15:02
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Silver2195 posted:(or Two/Jamie) lol
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Apr 17, 2025 15:07
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flatluigi posted:can you explain why you think the show is written progressively as an epic own without saying it's because the show is written progressively as an epic own If you read my criticisms of Rogue as an episode and think I dislike the episode because the Doctor kisses a dude, then you're super cherry picking the point. That's the problem with criticising the episode, people jump to accusations of homophobia. You're talking to someone who regards The Happiness Patrol as a clever but mishandled satire, for context. Just because it claims to be progressive, doesn't mean it's a good example of progressive writing. My point is that Davies is still writing like it's 2008 - Mary Whitehouse types aren't going to be writing angry letters to the BBC anymore. When the Paternoster Gang is a better example of queer representation that serves a character and narrative purpose, something is afoot. Rogue felt like an OC do not steal kinda character. Especially when there's an episode (Dot & Bubble) in the same series that handles society issues in a clever and mature way, and has characters who fit that narrative well. OldMemes fucked around with this message at 15:12 on Apr 17, 2025 |
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Apr 17, 2025 15:07
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Davies didn’t write Rogue, though.
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Apr 17, 2025 15:19
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OldMemes posted:It's creepy when the Doctor has romantic scenes with human women too. In universe, the power balance is wierd regardless of gender - it feels like the Doctor should be above romancing humans. I feel like these power imbalance arguments comes up a lot in a SF context and they've never been particularly convincing to me. They're just two characters that speak and act at roughly the age of their actors, and the characters appear capable of understanding consent. The characters aren't meant to stand in for anything more complex than two horny people getting it on but also having emotions. It's not deeper than that.
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Apr 17, 2025 15:31
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Where exactly is the power imbalance here? The Doctor has a TARDIS in Regency England which is stuck looking like a massive anachronism. Rogue has an invisible spaceship which also time travels. Rogue has the institutional backing of the body that employs him as a bounty hunter. The Doctor has the institutional backing of UNIT, a body which is clearly vastly technologically behind Rogue's people. The Doctor is the last survivor of a genocided culture. Rogue, so far as we can tell, isn't. If anything, Rogue has the advantage. EDIT: You know, particularly since he captures the Doctor and is on the point of killing him when the Doctor reveals his true nature to convince him not to. Generally speaking, it's real loving hard to say the person in the electric chair has an unfair power advantage over the person holding the switch. Warthur fucked around with this message at 16:09 on Apr 17, 2025 |
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Apr 17, 2025 16:06
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I think the argument is the age or species thing. I would have gone with age if I had to pick one (olif I had to) but OldMemes seems to be specifying species.
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Apr 17, 2025 16:15
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Going back to The Girl in the Fireplace going oooof yikes age gap much like it's twitter in 2017
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Apr 17, 2025 16:16
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No Dignity posted:Going back to The Girl in the Fireplace going oooof yikes age gap much like it's twitter in 2017 The kid imprinting part always weirded me out ngl. It'd be less weird if Moffat didn't keep going back to it too. (River, Amy)
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Apr 17, 2025 16:17
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Open Source Idiom posted:I think the argument is the age or species thing. I would have gone with age if I had to pick one (olif I had to) but OldMemes seems to be specifying species. Yeah, OldMemes seems to be thinking it's the species thing which would had legs if a) the Doctor's adoptive species weren't, to the best of his knowledge, a pile of smoking discarded Cyberman remains and b) the Doctor had the first loving clue what his species of birth was.
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Apr 17, 2025 16:35
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Rogue's ship does not time travel.
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Apr 17, 2025 16:44
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Slyphic posted:Rogue's ship does not time travel.
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Apr 17, 2025 16:49
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Slyphic posted:Rogue's ship does not time travel. Rogue is from the future though, relative to the story. He knows about DnD.
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Apr 17, 2025 16:49
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Rogue-the-episode is so anachronistic I don't think D&D and Kylie Minogue more than imply the possibility of time travel. But I can say for sure there's nothing explicitly about him traveling in time. He could have been time-traveled, but incapable of it himself. The pop culture stuff could be detritus of time travel. This is the episode where they conveniently forget about the furniture trick they just used and have to sacrifice themselves tragically instead; we're not talking about a tight script. Some great moments, better in clips than as a whole.
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Apr 17, 2025 17:02
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I don't get why you're tying yourself in knots over this, but I will rescue you; the novelisation states explicitly that he's a time traveller so we don't need to make up stories about him being a lucky human from the 18th-19th Century who happened to stumble across a spaceship and a D&D manual and a Kylie CD as debris from other time travelllers. He's a loving time traveller. He hung out with Houdini. Accept it, mourn the death of your weird interpretation of the episode, move on.
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Apr 17, 2025 19:40
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Sorry, but after Heaven Sent the half your age plus seven rule prevents the Doctor from being able to date literally anyone in the universe.
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Apr 17, 2025 19:47
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Thranguy posted:Sorry, but after Heaven Sent the half your age plus seven rule prevents the Doctor from being able to date literally anyone in the universe. Or, alternatively, it massively expanded his dating pool if you regard the final duplicate as having been born at the moment of being brought into existence in the Confession Dial.
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Apr 17, 2025 19:48
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Warthur posted:if you regard the final duplicate as having been born at the moment of being brought into existence in the Confession Dial.
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Apr 17, 2025 19:50
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Slyphic posted:"mourn the death of your weird interpretation of the episode, move on." I don't think that zinger comes across the weird you're meaning for it to come off.
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Apr 17, 2025 19:51
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Slyphic posted:"mourn the death of your weird interpretation of the episode, move on."
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Apr 17, 2025 19:51
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This conversation is making the thread very unchill.
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Apr 17, 2025 19:57
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Open Source Idiom posted:This conversation is making the thread very unchill. It's all the fault of this very Blue Kang line of argument.
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Apr 17, 2025 19:59
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I might have misread Warthur there. If "The doctor's age is measure from his exit of the Confession Dial" was meant as "look at this absurd dumb position", then I apologize.
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Apr 17, 2025 20:04
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Slyphic posted:I might have misread Warthur there. If "The doctor's age is measure from his exit of the Confession Dial" was meant as "look at this absurd dumb position", then I apologize. Mostly it was amplifying Thranguy's joke by adopting the opposite absurd position. Still waiting for OldMemes to explain why the power dynamic in Rogue is inappropriate.
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Apr 17, 2025 20:09
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