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DUMBASS REDDITORS posted:Games like LoL which don't require time Does this guy... does this guy play League of Legends? Because League of Legends has one of the most ridiculous grinds inherent I've ever seen. 6300 IP per Champion, and you get around 100 IP per win, something like 70 IP per loss. It kind of takes something in the ballpark of like 80 games to unlock a new Champion? And this isn't even getting into the point of runes and rune pages which offer a dramatic advantage in the early game and allow for more heavy, aggressive playstyles. Hell, I stopped playing League of Legends because I specifically wasn't a fan of setting aside a potential hour for something that could have been a lovely crawling loss of a game. But yeah it doesn't require time! lmao how the gently caress
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Aug 13, 2014 01:32
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Bauxite posted:You misunderstand me. I'm saying that you shouldn't expect anything out of anyone just because you helped them in a video game. Getting angry because people don't meet your expectations accomplishes nothing but to alienate you from everyone else. You've gone raiding with this group of people maybe twice. Unless it's super easy content that a significant portion of the group has already done seperately, you aren't going to win fights right out the gate. It takes time for people to learn both the bosses and their role in this specific group of people, and if you're unwilling to give people that time then you're the one that doesn't fit, not them.
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Aug 13, 2014 02:31
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tezcat posted:Just had to quote this. No matter what level of progression you think you have earned in this broken rear end game, you don't have the right to act like a turd to people. It just gnaws at your player base and drives them away, as if the crushing bugs and lack of end game with wintraded pvp didn't already. Yeah, I'm not even in that guild but queueing up with hateful spitelords for a fun 4 hours of raiding sounds absolutely miserable.
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Aug 13, 2014 03:13
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Psykmoe posted:Is this what happens if you raid with semi-strangers you only know on the internet? I've only really raided with a core group of people I still wanted to interact with outside of video games so maybe I was a bit naive going into this, both in terms of tone used to correct mistakes and how soon you should get mad at people for not killing a boss. Goons are secretly the most autistic and/or biggest poopsockers in any MMO. 
Suran37 fucked around with this message at 03:55 on Aug 13, 2014 |
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Aug 13, 2014 03:46
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from reading the last few pages, looks like things are going grandly in wildstar.  vvv: actually eldercain, my server first (  ) naxxramus clearing wow guild had a strict no fun policy furthermore
Blazing Zero fucked around with this message at 03:59 on Aug 13, 2014 |
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Aug 13, 2014 03:55
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It's not hard! Just be nice to people! Take your frustration out on something that isn't a person! Fun and good times raids are more fun and productive than angry lovely raids. I remember wiping repeatedly to Leotheris and still having shitloads of fun just dicking around in vent.
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Aug 13, 2014 03:55
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I only bought this game last week but after reading this thread I don't want to play it ever
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Aug 13, 2014 04:01
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Syrinxx posted:I only bought this game last week but after reading this thread I don't want to play it ever
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Aug 13, 2014 04:03
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Syrinxx posted:I only bought this game last week but after reading this thread I don't want to play it ever This feeling never goes away.
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Aug 13, 2014 04:27
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I unfortunately couldn't play for 3 days and I missed swinging my space sword. I think this game is cool. If you think it's cool too then we should all just be cool and click buttons together. If you don't like it then stop playing you dum-dum. Come back a few patches later and see if the water is nice. Or not. You dum-dums.
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Aug 13, 2014 04:39
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Syrinxx posted:I only bought this game last week but after reading this thread I don't want to play it ever It's a pretty great game, don't let idiots ruin it for you
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Aug 13, 2014 04:46
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Love the lore, the aesthetic and the gameplay. Hate gated content, rep grinds, and a dev team that introduces game breaking bugs like that's their loving job. Though I'm starting to see a pattern emerge. All of the guys who were brilliant yet dysfunctional/required constant supervision quit the WoW dev team to build wildstar. All of the QA guys stayed and continued to build WoW, which is why WoW is boring but stable and Wildstar is brilliant but falling apart.
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Aug 13, 2014 05:02
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ahy ess dee eph posted:I wish you the best of luck, but you guys seem to be stuck in this eternal loop of blame-shifting. It's only a matter of time before you guys give up and go back to your roots of trolling Zone chat in a vain attempt to relive your Rift days. Who are you in game? Frankly, those solid players (3) all got their attunement status finished and left with multiple level 50s about the same time I started doing silver adventures with my only 50. So, rather than staying to help us learn the dungeons they just jumped ship before anyone else was at that point in the game, so yeah, we are still lagging behind because people are finally learning what they need to do by themselves. Salmanilla fucked around with this message at 05:13 on Aug 13, 2014 |
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Aug 13, 2014 05:04
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Salmanilla posted:Who are you in game? Frankly, those solid players (3) all got their attunement status finished and left with multiple level 50s about the same time I started doing silver adventures with my only 50. So, rather than staying to help us learn the dungeons they just jumped ship before anyone else was at that point in the game, so yeah, we are still lagging behind because people are finally learning what they need to do by themselves. It's like... attunements.txt
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Aug 13, 2014 05:06
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Salmanilla posted:Who are you in game? Frankly, those solid players (3) all got their attunement status finished and left with multiple level 50s about the same time I started doing silver adventures with my only 50. So, rather than staying to help us learn the dungeons they just jumped ship before anyone else was at that point in the game, so yeah, we are still lagging behind because people are finally learning what they need to do by themselves. Vune / Vectorman Stayed around for about a month to try and help Sterling and them put together a Raid Group. For those that were in the PGI - Raiding Circle, Sterling and I were the ones who created / recruited for that circle to try and get things kickstarted a little bit quicker. Last I heard was that most of those cats are jumping ship to join SurveyCorps anyway. That reminds me, someone say goodbye to Morden and DrMoreaubot for me -- They're good dudes.
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Aug 13, 2014 05:15
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So my problem with the raid attunement change is more from a design perspective. The dungeon step was the least bullshit aspect (vs grinding, farming world bosses) and I felt served as an appropriate intermediary step between gearing up in vets and doing the raid content. Obviously there were a lot of complaints from the bad players, moreso before the nerfs, but they would've brickwalled on X89/trash anyway. Similarly, there is a large gap from GA to DS, which results in a large number of players giving up in lack of progress, which is being addressed this next drop. I don't give a poo poo that others have an easier ride to attunement (especially considering we made thousands of plat selling carries), but I definitely think it'd be better for the game if the process were a smooth increase in difficulty.
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Aug 13, 2014 05:16
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Styrka posted:So my problem with the raid attunement change is more from a design perspective. The dungeon step was the least bullshit aspect (vs grinding, farming world bosses) and I felt served as an appropriate intermediary step between gearing up in vets and doing the raid content. Obviously there were a lot of complaints from the bad players, moreso before the nerfs, but they would've brickwalled on X89/trash anyway. Similarly, there is a large gap from GA to DS, which results in a large number of players giving up in lack of progress, which is being addressed this next drop. I don't give a poo poo that others have an easier ride to attunement (especially considering we made thousands of plat selling carries), but I definitely think it'd be better for the game if the process were a smooth increase in difficulty. This is something that only people who already have silver dungeons say. I don't have them done not because I'm terrible; the only one I don't have we oneshot all the bosses but stopped for explanations. I just simply don't have time to sit down and possibly reset a dungeon a couple times at whatever arbitrary time a group forms. I have a life. I can do all the stupid not standing in poo poo poo poo, but I don't have hours and hours to grind at it. With a schedule like raids typically have, I could. And time trialing something just isn't the same as killing it. I would love to see some statistical correlation to silvering a dungeon legit and not being a wiping fuckhead or whatever people think, but I'm pretty sure it's one of those handwavey arguements people like to make to feel better about what they've done that gently caress casuals haven't.
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Aug 13, 2014 05:25
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Eldercain posted:This is something that only people who already have silver dungeons say. I don't have them done not because I'm terrible; the only one I don't have we oneshot all the bosses but stopped for explanations. I just simply don't have time to sit down and possibly reset a dungeon a couple times at whatever arbitrary time a group forms. I have a life. I can do all the stupid not standing in poo poo poo poo, but I don't have hours and hours to grind at it. With a schedule like raids typically have, I could. There were no illusions about what this game's PVE endgame would look like. Carbine was open about its raiding philosophy throughout development and the attunement flowchart was floating around the internet before release. Regardless of the validity of your complaints, the current situation is intentional. So I suggest you and others like you stop paying money to play a game you don't enjoy anymore. Vote with your wallets and your decision to keep playing and maybe you'll get a more accessible game in the future. Otherwise, you should have known what you were getting into.
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Aug 13, 2014 05:55
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folgore posted:There were no illusions about what this game's PVE endgame would look like. Carbine was open about its raiding philosophy throughout development and the attunement flowchart was floating around the internet before release. Regardless of the validity of your complaints, the current situation is intentional. So I suggest you and others like you stop paying money to play a game you don't enjoy anymore. Vote with your wallets and your decision to keep playing and maybe you'll get a more accessible game in the future. Otherwise, you should have known what you were getting into.  Because apparently catering to lovely players who encourage toxic communities dosen't bring the subscriptions they want, who knew? tezcat fucked around with this message at 06:02 on Aug 13, 2014 |
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Aug 13, 2014 06:00
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I don't usually tackle world bosses but I got in on a battle and when we finally got it down to a sliver of life it disappeared. Poof! Is that normal?
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Aug 13, 2014 06:02
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folgore posted:There were no illusions about what this game's PVE endgame would look like. Carbine was open about its raiding philosophy throughout development and the attunement flowchart was floating around the internet before release. Regardless of the validity of your complaints, the current situation is intentional. So I suggest you and others like you stop paying money to play a game you don't enjoy anymore. Vote with your wallets and your decision to keep playing and maybe you'll get a more accessible game in the future. Otherwise, you should have known what you were getting into. It's as if some people cannot grasp that a fallen drink, a phone call, a crying child, a disconnect, a knock on the door, or any number of interruptions in life should not force someone and the four other people with him or her to redo a thing that requires a significant time investment. It's not about the time trial so much as it is about the length of the time trial and its narrow margins for error. Get this through your drat thick heads, for gently caress's sake. e: I main an Engineer. I've got most of the best in slot items. I'm pretty well runed, sitting at just shy of 1800 AP with a crafted gun (thanks, Sintor). And I am not doing dungeons because my internet is somewhat unstable. I do not want to cause hours of lost time for others because I get loving disconnected or lag spiked, which has happened rather frequently in other instanced content. Evil_Greven fucked around with this message at 06:14 on Aug 13, 2014 |
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Aug 13, 2014 06:06
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Picked up a guest pass from my friend, I have no idea what I want to do. I've always been a shooter kind of dude so I'm moderately out of my element, I've only ever dabbled in MMOs. What do? I'm trying to play a Cassian Engineer at the moment because I was told the class was very solo-friendly and I like the idea of having companions, but I've yet to try anything else.
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Aug 13, 2014 06:13
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I think the point that is trying to be made is that these dungeon requirements are, again, an introductory step to raiding. If you can't make these time limits, now much more generous, you will probably also have a difficult time making consistent 10-12m pulls in raids.Eldercain posted:I just simply don't have time to sit down and possibly reset a dungeon a couple times at whatever arbitrary time a group forms. I have a life. I can do all the stupid not standing in poo poo poo poo, but I don't have hours and hours to grind at it. With a schedule like raids typically have, I could. In a standard casual 4h/3 night raid schedule, you could easily do dungeons in a week. If you don't have that time, you obviously don't need to attune for raids you won't be doing. Given you won't raid, if you don't have the time to work on silver dungeons, then you're already at your PvE endgame for what your life can avail you.
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Aug 13, 2014 06:26
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Styrka posted:In a standard casual 4h/3 night raid schedule, you could easily do dungeons in a week. If you don't have that time, you obviously don't need to attune for raids you won't be doing. Given you won't raid, if you don't have the time to work on silver dungeons, then you're already at your PvE endgame for what your life can avail you.
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Aug 13, 2014 06:36
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And I could see that as being a reasonable option to consider, but they're not doing that; they're making the dungeon step easier. More attuned people won't matter if they can't realistically contribute to a raid, and until these stupid devs figure out a way to fix that, not much changes.
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Aug 13, 2014 06:42
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Well I finished my silver dungeons with a pug Stormtalon. I still maintain attunements are a dumb idea that only make it harder for guilds to maintain a stable raid roster and I'm not convinced any sort of "basic learning" obtained from them is worth that. Any checks and learning provided by attunement could be equally easily done with boss-specific enrage timers or baked into the raid's trash pulls or minibosses. The difference with that though is that you would actually feel like you're doing the content (even if it is just trash) and I think that's a difference that matters with regard of making sure that those same people will be there on the next raid night. I can admit though that the process certainly would have been significantly easier for Goon Squad if we had done some amount of organized scheduling like committing the first few raid nights into getting people attuned or something.
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Aug 13, 2014 06:44
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Evil_Greven posted:e: I main an Engineer. I've got most of the best in slot items. I'm pretty well runed, sitting at just shy of 1800 AP with a crafted gun (thanks, Sintor). And I am not doing dungeons because my internet is somewhat unstable. I do not want to cause hours of lost time for others because I get loving disconnected or lag spiked, which has happened rather frequently in other instanced content. Truth. This guy isn't some terrible bad like you assume. He is consistently top DPS in any content we roll with where he's not afraid a single lag spike will ruin people's night. quote:There were no illusions about what this game's PVE endgame would look like. Carbine was open about its raiding philosophy throughout development and the attunement flowchart was floating around the internet before release. Regardless of the validity of your complaints, the current situation is intentional. So I suggest you and others like you stop paying money to play a game you don't enjoy anymore. Vote with your wallets and your decision to keep playing and maybe you'll get a more accessible game in the future. Otherwise, you should have known what you were getting into. This is nothing. This is only the beginning. This game is hemorrhaging subs. It's blindly obvious just from running around capital cities. The vast majority of people who are still on are the ultra-casuals who haven't even gotten to 50 yet. Numerous "world-fist" guilds are bitching they cannot maintain enough loving actives to even raid. There's what, 1 guild that can even enter the 40 man on a good night? gently caress, some of them are even recruiting level 1s and offering to attune them if they can make it from 1-50 in 3 days. We all knew it was going to be hard. We all knew it would be challenging. What was NOT advertised was that it was going to be dull, boring, and tedious, and that the developers were not going to learn from the mistakes of over 15 years of ongoing MMO "lessons learned" documentation. Game-breaking or class-breaking bugs introduced with patches. Sweepingly overpowered and underpowered classes. Exploits to cheese dungeons not fixed from beta. Monetary exploits known in BETA that were not addressed FOR WEEKS INTO LIVE. Tank classes that CANNOT TANK, who are told their fixes "might make drop 3. 4 for sure.", at least until they exploded with rage. BIS gear coming from overcharged level 49 crafting blues because the math behind the stat system is terrible. Absolutely *ZERO* incentive to run dungeons after completion, because every piece of gear you have is better than every possible reward. No, good sir. Carbine has literally poo poo the bed in every single possible sense imaginable, and they need to start formulating a bail-out strategy pronto. Step 1 to this game surviving the F2Pocalypse is finding a way to get a healthy portion of the level 50 population at least INTO the raids. If you can't realize why 90-95% of the population being unable to access endgame content is a terrible loving state for any MMO to be in, especially with WoD charging at it like a 10 ton juggernaut, then you can enjoy being the king shitlord of a F2P empire of dust. If you're a loving hardcore like you profess, you should be stepping up and backing this change with every fiber of your being, because let me tell you a little secret. Carbine made the decision to get in bed with NCSoft. NCSoft doesn't give a poo poo about your "hardcore" content. They don't give a poo poo whether hardcores are happy or filthy casuals are happy. They care about one thing - Extracting as much cash money as they can from your and my wallet before we collectively burn out and quit. No one in the world gives a gently caress about world firsts in a F2P game, and the minute this game goes F2P, you can consider the "hardcore raiding" scene dead. And I'm not talking about in Wildstar. I'm talking about in MMOs, period. Because "The Devs are Listening", and I'm not talking about the ones from Wildstar. If a Triple-A MMO title that's entire niche was "hardcore raiding content" crashes and burns BECAUSE OF ITS RAIDING CONTENT, do you think ANY game studio with the resources to make a triple-A MMO title is ever going to dumb enough to walk that path again? No. They're going to design their raids for 10-man and 20-man, apply some HP and damage multiplier, call them "mythic" or "heroic" or "legendary" or some other stupid moniker, and laugh their way to the bank. TL;DR: Support the casuals. Carbine hosed up everything imaginable, and needs to un-gently caress poo poo and get people into raids to keep people interested. We're the reason your game continues to exist and doesn't become another NCSoft F2P Cash Shop. Meido outfit cash shop coming in Drop 4. AtmaTheWanderer fucked around with this message at 07:01 on Aug 13, 2014 |
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Aug 13, 2014 06:54
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Carbine made the mistake of equating xXxHaRdCoReXxX players' whining over welfare epics with them having the numbers to sustain a AAA mmo. Which they do not, plain and simple. WoW's hardcore raiders enjoyed content paid for by legions of casuals. That's how it always goes. Carbine's terrible QA and ludicrously incompetent balance and itemization, not to mention utter travesty of a pvp team, are all more pressing problems, but they're wallpaper over a fundamentally wrong idea that has been driving design. It is clear that carbine as a studio is not qualified to make an MMO; they are fantastic content designers, but that's it. Without balance devs and competent QA and CS, content is not enough to keep people playing. This is one part of a studio acting like a whole studio.
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Aug 13, 2014 07:41
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I'm enjoying the content they have, but that's certainly an opinion that won't be shared by everyone. And I definitely agree that 40 mans, while a fun concept, just does't work well anymore, especially given the current sub counts. We've had conversations with the raid devs on our nights of running with 36-38 people and they said they've got a good 4+ raids planned and in development ambiguous to size so if 40 doesn't last then they'll be 20 (or less if they decide that'll be a thing). At the moment I think the game is giving as much as it will to all player types, and is up to them to decide if that's enough for a sub. I just have to hope the income from those who think it is is enough to maintain the game sans f2p.
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Aug 13, 2014 07:45
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Asema posted:It's a pretty great game, don't let idiots ruin it for you I don't think he can stop Carbine from making new patches.
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Aug 13, 2014 07:50
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I'm checking in as someone still enjoying the game overall. I had a blast today helping other GS members attune for their various steps. I'm busy runeing my gear for both healing and DPS, so I still have a feel of progress though I've been locked at silver dungeons. I'll keep a sub until the game gets too boring to play or GS becomes intolerable to be in. Most of the people I see on frequently are really chill people who I've had nothing but positive experiences playing with. Don't let this thread scare you off from GS.
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Aug 13, 2014 07:52
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Styrka posted:I think the point that is trying to be made is that these dungeon requirements are, again, an introductory step to raiding. If you can't make these time limits, now much more generous, you will probably also have a difficult time making consistent 10-12m pulls in raids. What kind of casual raid does 4 hours at a stretch, let alone 3 nights a week? If that's what you think casual raiders do, you seriously need to reexamine your perceptions.
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Aug 13, 2014 08:02
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Can't say much regarding specifics just yet, but what I can say is that the past few weeks have involved a lot of talks both for improving the beginning experience and for making improvements at max level. The itemization and attunement changes discussed today are just part of the package. Some of the changes may not be immediate (as we'd like to, y'know, test things. We're not happy about bugs on live any more than you folks are) but we're definitely listening.
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Aug 13, 2014 08:05
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Lockin this poo poo. http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3657496
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Aug 13, 2014 08:18
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