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Robotnik DDS posted:Across the Sea blew because it simultaneously went so little into mythology that it was unsatisfying and so far into mythology that it was hokey. As cheesy as the kids' acting & the stylized inflectionless dialogue were, I was happy with that episode. It showed that Jacob wasn't strictly a good guy & implied that his death was a necessary part of resolving the conflicts caused by the tragedies of the past. It explicitly cast the monster in the Prometheus/Lucifer mythological role, gave some weight to his actions & motivations (although the line "I'LL PROVE I CAN LEAVE SOMEDAY" or whatever was hilariously too on-the-nose) and resolved his character as an essentially wounded person obsessed with the traumas of the past instead of the pure evil that had been hinted at. The explanation of the source was kind of clunky BUT i think it was conceptually sound; an attentive audience can easily grasp that it's the primeval light/kether/muspel-fire/OM or however you want to put it, without laying on a particular cheeseball sci-fi explanation ("aliens created it as the garden of eden by means of a black hole to make a time machine" or whatever uninsightful theories people were posting). That's one of the most compelling things about lost, the way that its sci-fi-fantasy narrative conceits dovetail really neatly with its character arcs and human themes. E: OK one more thing! The choice to have the alternate world be temporary & somewhat illusory was an extremely risky move, and it could have been handled better-- like a lot of things about the show, really. But on a level of emotional truth, I thought it was pitch-perfect. The point of everything, the goal, wasn't to take a mulligan on their bad lives and undo their past mistakes, it was to reach a kind of enlightenment, to transcend their selves thru each other. It's not a coincidence that the om & dharmacakra got as much screen time as the christian church & angel and the physical fact of Jack dying alone (sort of  ). Having the characters essentially watch the end of their own show & acknowledge their existence as a kind of fiction-- but a collective transcendent one instead of a solitary self-pitying one-- was the right ending to the show. see ya
swamp waste fucked around with this message at 16:37 on Jun 18, 2010 |
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Jun 18, 2010 16:19
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swamp waste posted:As cheesy as the kids' acting & the stylized inflectionless dialogue were, I was happy with that episode. It showed that Jacob wasn't strictly a good guy & implied that his death was a necessary part of resolving the conflicts caused by the tragedies of the past. It explicitly cast the monster in the Prometheus/Lucifer mythological role, gave some weight to his actions & motivations (although the line "I'LL PROVE I CAN LEAVE SOMEDAY" or whatever was hilariously too on-the-nose) and resolved his character as an essentially wounded person obsessed with the traumas of the past instead of the pure evil that had been hinted at. I agree with this post. Spot on.
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Jun 18, 2010 18:16
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swamp waste posted:As cheesy as the kids' acting & the stylized inflectionless dialogue were, I was happy with that episode. It showed that Jacob wasn't strictly a good guy & implied that his death was a necessary part of resolving the conflicts caused by the tragedies of the past. It explicitly cast the monster in the Prometheus/Lucifer mythological role, gave some weight to his actions & motivations (although the line "I'LL PROVE I CAN LEAVE SOMEDAY" or whatever was hilariously too on-the-nose) and resolved his character as an essentially wounded person obsessed with the traumas of the past instead of the pure evil that had been hinted at. Congratulations on being a reasonable human being instead of a kneejerk goon guy.
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Jun 18, 2010 21:58
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swamp waste posted:The explanation of the source was kind of clunky BUT i think it was conceptually sound; an attentive audience can easily grasp that it's the primeval light/kether/muspel-fire/OM or however you want to put it, without laying on a particular cheeseball sci-fi explanation ("aliens created it as the garden of eden by means of a black hole to make a time machine" or whatever uninsightful theories people were posting). That's one of the most compelling things about lost, the way that its sci-fi-fantasy narrative conceits dovetail really neatly with its character arcs and human themes. I agree with this much in general. I still don't like the episode at all, but I really didn't want the source to be explained any deeper and thought what happened on the Island over the course of the show was explanation enough. Like I said, an even vaguer explanation would have been fine with me if it had been done well and let us feel the gravity of the stakes at hand. It was also really depressing that while MiB seemed to have an intelligence and curiosity to him, the detached crazies won out and ruined his life forever, though that particular element was not "poorly done"" or anything.
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Jun 19, 2010 04:15
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The big issue with The End and Season Six in general was the flash-sideways resolution. I thought it was awesome, and I think that in retrospect a lot of other people will too. But, a lot of people were expecting some kind of grand revelation that would tie the entirety of LOST together, and they thought that it would be delivered via the explanation of exactly what the deal with this alternate timeline was. People tied expectations to that reveal that were greater then what it actually was. It was a great way to end season six, and a fitting epilogue for the show, but it did not provide that 'click' moment that makes everything that came before it suddenly make sense that people were expecting.
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Jun 19, 2010 08:04
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Haha if anyone expected a 'click' scene for the end of  just kill yourself.
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Jun 19, 2010 08:31
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Bad Sun posted:The big issue with The End and Season Six in general was the flash-sideways resolution. I think if it turned out that the island was a phase of the afterlife as well, the ending would have made a lot more sense to most people. In a lot of ways, the alt was a lot more realistic than the prime, so it was hard for people to accept that so much unexplained magical poo poo happened on the island and that was the real world while the alt was the "fake" world. That's the main reason why a lot of people think they were dead for all six seasons. It's easier to make sense of the unexplained weirdness of the island if you just think of it as a test to determine if one is ready for the next phase of the afterlife. I think, what it comes down to, is that the whole show was about letting go. On the island, they had to let go of their past lives' baggage in order to properly move on. This is why there were so many flashbacks relevant and interspersed with the trials each character was undergoing on the island. Then, in the afterlife, they were given what they had wanted during their lives, but had to again learn to let go of their need to hold onto it before they could move on. So, thematically, the alt and the island were quite similar. As predictable as it would have been, I think the ending would have worked better had it been shown that the island was part of the afterlife as well. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if this was the writers' original intention, but they changed it when they realised it was too obvious. A lot of people interpret it that way anyway though, so I guess it doesn't matter much.
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Jun 19, 2010 09:52
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Gianthogweed posted:As predictable as it would have been, I think the ending would have worked better had it been shown that the island was part of the afterlife as well. No, because that would be stupid and make absolutely no sense, seeing how they GOT OFF THE ISLAND AND THEN WENT BACK, AND ALSO PEOPLE FROM THE OUTSIDE WORLD WHO WERE QUITE OBVIOUSLY NOT DEAD CAME TO THE ISLAND.
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Jun 19, 2010 09:56
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Gianthogweed posted:As predictable as it would have been, I think the ending would have worked better had it been shown that the island was part of the afterlife as well.
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Jun 19, 2010 11:13
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The show would have been better ending with an additional (fourth) timeline where the characters are old people in a retirement home playing bingo together (Hurley wins as the numbers 4, 8, 15, 16, 23 and 42 are called).
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Jun 19, 2010 11:36
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What we would really need is a FIFTH timeline where everyone was polar bears.
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Jun 19, 2010 11:45
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but.. but.. but.. but there was only ONE timeline!
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Jun 19, 2010 11:47
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FrensaGeran posted:Haha if anyone expected a 'click' scene for the end of Mostly since we were given at least seven different huge "reward moments" in past seasons. And I never thought I'd say this, but Gianthogweed has probably taken enough abuse. It's not funny anymore and just seems mean. He was wrong. Let it go. We were all wrong about tons of poo poo too.
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Jun 19, 2010 12:23
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LividLiquid posted:The tone of the show kind of promised one. Through podcasts and discussion here I knew better than to expect it and I enjoyed the poo poo out of the finale as a result but I don't hold it against those who did as the very mantra of the show seemed to be "Just wait... You'll see." I dunno, the resolution of the Flashsideways kind of was. There's seemed to be little way to coherently and reasonably draw that storyline to a close in the remaining time since everyone was expecting the two timelines to converge and then that one scene with Christian just pulled the whole thing into focus. I said before the finale that I wasn't expecting any more explainations other than the sideways timeline and that's what we got. I also find it funny that 'it's purgatory!' was pretty much the first debunked theory in the show's lifespan and yet not a single person even speculated on that being the nature of the flashsideways.
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Jun 19, 2010 12:29
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Noxville posted:I also find it funny that 'it's purgatory!' was pretty much the first debunked theory in the show's lifespan and yet not a single person even speculated on that being the nature of the flashsideways. Because no-one thought the writers were retarded enough to waste half a season on meaningless flash sideways only to have it be "Surprise, they were dead!". Especially because Carlton and Damon said that the purpose of them was to show that the characters lives would've intertwined even if the Island didn't exist. Cool moment at the end where they all hook up, but all their flash sideways experiences up to then were just made meaningless. Luckily they conned enough people into thinking that the characters were working through the issues they had during life, which is just absurd considering some of the flash sideways stories. Hurley the luckiest guy in the world, well he sure did deal with all the 'bad luck' he had during his life by being dropped into a purgatory where he has everything handed to him on a silver platter. Zahki fucked around with this message at 14:39 on Jun 19, 2010 |
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Jun 19, 2010 14:34
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Zahki posted:Luckily they conned enough people into thinking that the characters were working through the issues they had during life, which is just absurd considering some of the flash sideways stories. Hurley the luckiest guy in the world, well he sure did deal with all the 'bad luck' he had during his life by being dropped into a purgatory where he has everything handed to him on a silver platter. They did work through their issues during life. Hurley's flashsideways was about his post-finale life, where he was loved and took great care of everyone on the island but still ended up quite lonely because he didnt have someone like Libby.
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Jun 19, 2010 15:25
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Zahki posted:Cool moment at the end where they all hook up, but all their flash sideways experiences up to then were just made meaningless. Serious question do you consider all the flashbacks in seasons 1-3 to be meaningless?
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Jun 19, 2010 15:48
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Someone please answer my question about where the date 75 AD came from with regards to "Across the Sea." Did some random goon just throw that date out there and everyone ran with it?
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Jun 19, 2010 16:20
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On Lostpedia it says that Jacob and the Man in Black were born in 0 AD. I think Mark Pellegrino mentioned it in an interview.
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Jun 19, 2010 16:34
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Johnny B. Goode posted:Someone please answer my question about where the date 75 AD came from with regards to "Across the Sea." Are you looking at the timeline on Lostpedia? I am not sure how they came up with the date but I agree with the timeframe of that shipwreck and here is why: The knife that was thrown at the well (and later used to try to kill Jacob and the MIB) was a Roman military knife (Pugio) hinting that the orgin of Jacob and MIB's mother is from Rome. http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Ancient_dagger With further respect to the Roman nature, their mother was wearing a Stola, which were in fashion from 200 BC to 300 AD. http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Claudia The Hieroglyphs in the donkey wheel chamber were put there sometime after "accross the sea" and were distinctly egyptian. The last use of Egyptian Hieroglyphs was about 400 AD. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptian_hieroglyphs I don't know how someone came up with exactly 75 AD but it clearly happened right around then.
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Jun 19, 2010 16:38
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Johnny B. Goode posted:Someone please answer my question about where the date 75 AD came from with regards to "Across the Sea." I just read through the season 6 spoiler thread for interest and it's because when spoilers for the episode leaked the script stated that the stuff with them as kids took place in 32AD and the stuff with them as grownups took place in 52AD.
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Jun 19, 2010 17:19
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Noxville posted:Serious question do you consider all the flashbacks in seasons 1-3 to be meaningless? No, because they actually shed some light on the characters past and usually had relevance to whatever was happening on the island. The flash sideways did not. quote:They did work through their issues during life. Hurley's flashsideways was about his post-finale life, where he was loved and took great care of everyone on the island but still ended up quite lonely because he didnt have someone like Libby. That is a very tenuous connection to make considering the circumstances of the other awakenings. Zahki fucked around with this message at 17:36 on Jun 19, 2010 |
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Jun 19, 2010 17:33
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Zahki posted:No, because they actually shed some light on the characters past and usually had relevance to whatever was happening on the island. The flash sideways did not. True, but he did have a very different life from the rest of the others, post-finale. Its all up to interpretation--but the flashsideways does show characters dealing with stuffs from their lives and I think the writers show us possibilities of the surviving characters, post-finale from them. That type of "displaced" storytelling is very "Lost".
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Jun 19, 2010 17:54
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Yeah. I'm just saying that none of the characters really had any epiphanies in the afterlife except the one that awakens them. Kate was still running from the Law, right up until Desmond stuffs her in a car and takes her to the concert, then she awakens from seeing Claire give birth. She doesn't have some unfulfilled desire to give birth to babies, it was just an event that twinged her memory, as for the rest of her story, who cares what happened? She certainly doesn't. All the characters once they awaken throw away their purgatory lives, and there's no evidence any of them learned anything from them. When Locke regains his memories is it "Man I was such a sucker, I lost Helen and everyone I cared about because of my obsessions, I'm glad I got a second chance", nope it was "Holy moly, Jack we gotta go to the Church!". Basically the entire flash sideways was a vehicle to have some touching reunion moments, and some of them were done very well I admit. I loved the Sawyer/Juliet reunion, but in the end if you're going to be spending half a season on these things you need to have more to it than just the post Island after party. Especially because these stories had no impact on the main storyline, whether or not the characters meet up in Island heaven is inconsequential to the story we've been following for 5 seasons, which makes it even more disappointing so much time was spent on an extended epilogue that ends with them casting off their alt lives we were led to believe were important. A prime example is Sawyers brief relationship with Charlotte. How is that important? Why did it need to be shown, how does a quicky with Charlotte help Sawyer resolve his remaining issues?
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Jun 19, 2010 18:20
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Zahki posted:Yeah. I'm just saying that none of the characters really had any epiphanies in the afterlife except the one that awakens them. Kate was still running from the Law, right up until Desmond stuffs her in a car and takes her to the concert, then she awakens from seeing Claire give birth. She doesn't have some unfulfilled desire to give birth to babies, it was just an event that twinged her memory, as for the rest of her story, who cares what happened? She certainly doesn't. All the characters once they awaken throw away their purgatory lives, and there's no evidence any of them learned anything from them. When Locke regains his memories is it "Man I was such a sucker, I lost Helen and everyone I cared about because of my obsessions, I'm glad I got a second chance", nope it was "Holy moly, Jack we gotta go to the Church!". Yeah I kind of wish they had spent less time on the flashsideways and shown some more flashbacks for neglected characters like Widmore, the Man in Black and Jacob instead. A lot of the afterlife scenes with everyone who wasn't Desmond could have been trimmed a fair bit.
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Jun 19, 2010 18:40
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Zahki posted:A prime example is Sawyers brief relationship with Charlotte. How is that important? Why did it need to be shown, how does a quicky with Charlotte help Sawyer resolve his remaining issues? If you recall, the reason the relationship ended so quickly was because Sawyer lost his poo poo at Charlotte for looking through the file on his parents. This was done to show how Sawyer's tragic backstory was still affecting his personal life, even in a reality where he became a cop and should theoretically be happy. In the end it's his good old buddy Miles who helps him LET GO of his desire for revenge and MOVE ON.
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Jun 19, 2010 18:44
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SpiderHyphenMan posted:If you recall, the reason the relationship ended so quickly was because Sawyer lost his poo poo at Charlotte for looking through the file on his parents. This was done to show how Sawyer's tragic backstory was still affecting his personal life, even in a reality where he became a cop and should theoretically be happy. In the end it's his good old buddy Miles who helps him LET GO of his desire for revenge and MOVE ON. Miles did something? He bumped into Juliet, remembered "Hey I already killed that guy" and went to the church. He didn't resolve any issues at all.
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Jun 19, 2010 18:57
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Zahki posted:Miles did something? quote:[ Flash-sideways timeline. Sawyer pulls up as Miles is leaving the Police station ]
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Jun 19, 2010 19:39
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Zahki posted:A prime example is Sawyers brief relationship with Charlotte. How is that important? Why did it need to be shown, how does a quicky with Charlotte help Sawyer resolve his remaining issues? Are you kidding? A quicky with Charlotte would resolve almost all of MY issues!  In show terms, it was still all about how the characters intersected at many point in their lives. The theme is that they are all connected. Gianthogweed" posted:I think if it turned out that the island was a phase of the afterlife as well, the ending would have made a lot more sense to most people. In a lot of ways, the alt was a lot more realistic than the prime, so it was hard for people to accept that so much unexplained magical poo poo happened on the island and that was the real world while the alt was the "fake" world. That's the main reason why a lot of people think they were dead for all six seasons. It's easier to make sense of the unexplained weirdness of the island if you just think of it as a test to determine if one is ready for the next phase of the afterlife. Oh drat it all to hell, I was going to say something like this. I would accept if the ending had been that not only was the alt the afterlife, but that the whole 1-6 season story was also the afterlife, just a sort of first step to the process of letting go of earthly things. That's clearly NOT where they went with it, by the way, but I'm saying if they had gone that way, I would accept it as valid. Now that I've agreed with Gianthogweed I feel a great need to shower. At least there was only one timeline...
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Jun 19, 2010 19:48
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SpiderHyphenMan posted:It can be assumed that Miles talked him out of it in a very emotional scene that was cut for time. It can be assumed? Are you taking the piss here? Have any of the creators said anything about this missing scene, is it going to be on the DVDs or are you just making stuff up out of convenience? Edit: Not that I'd mind if it was true though. Thats my main complaint that nothing of meaning was done in the flash sideways, it feels like they spent far more time misdirecting the audience than actually doing anything substative with it. If Sawyer did finally let go of his anger or whatever the gently caress (something I think he did in season 3 when he finally got his vengeance anyway, hence why he's so chilled out in season 5, making a life with Juliet) then it would be pretty important to leave it in and actually show the viewer. Zahki fucked around with this message at 20:33 on Jun 19, 2010 |
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Jun 19, 2010 20:27
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SpiderHyphenMan posted:Let's ask Lostpedia. What are you talking about? It can be assumed that Sawyer didn't give up his lifelong quest for vengeance since we were given no indication that he had, until the moment he remembered he had already accomplished it.
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Jun 19, 2010 20:34
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marktheando posted:What are you talking about? It can be assumed that Sawyer didn't give up his lifelong quest for vengeance since we were given no indication that he had, until the moment he remembered he had already accomplished it. I interpreted it completely opposite from you. I felt like Sawyer decided to let go of his need for vengeance, and he knew that Miles would be his best support to do that. Deciding to let go of something is all we saw of his particular journey, so adding Miles to the deal reassures us that he will stick with it and NOT hunt down the rest of the Anthony Coopers. Just to drive that point home, in the afterlife Anthony Cooper is hosed up.
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Jun 19, 2010 20:40
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ITILPrince posted:I interpreted it completely opposite from you. I felt like Sawyer decided to let go of his need for vengeance, and he knew that Miles would be his best support to do that. Deciding to let go of something is all we saw of his particular journey, so adding Miles to the deal reassures us that he will stick with it and NOT hunt down the rest of the Anthony Coopers. Just to drive that point home, in the afterlife Anthony Cooper is hosed up. I just assumed he was giving Miles the impression that he was letting it go, just to get him off his back. The way he behaved towards Charlotte shows that his issues with his parents deaths aren't the kind of thing that gets resolved in a two minute chat with a friend.
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Jun 19, 2010 20:48
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marktheando posted:I just assumed he was giving Miles the impression that he was letting it go, just to get him off his back. The way he behaved towards Charlotte shows that his issues with his parents deaths aren't the kind of thing that gets resolved in a two minute chat with a friend. Resolved, no. But started, yes. He opened up to his friend Miles, knowing that Miles would help him get over it.
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Jun 19, 2010 21:28
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Going into the show, from what I'd heard about all the weird stuff that was happening and the eventual time travel, my original prediction was that they had all died in the plane crash and were in purgatory to Let Go/Move On and to be a final test for them. I got really excited when it was revealed that the plane wreck had been found. In retrospect, their explanation of what the island was made supernatural sense. A lot of religions speak of the afterlife as a physical place as opposed to some alternate dimension, which is what I took from the wine bottle thing. At the same time the sideways-Hurlyverse was another dimension thing, so all the bases were covered. I think the point of that was that the creators of the show hoped that people cared enough about the characters to want to know how they might have been without the supernatural forces that drove the show up to that point. For some characters it was really rewarding to see, for some it wasn't (Kate Hate, eh?) A lot of the development that was mirrored from the first 4 odd seasons had to be cut to size for 6. Sawyer's ultimate evolution was when he was -really- forced to work with a small group of people - and trust them and grow close to them - in 1977, and the sidewaysverse mirrors that when he finally trusts Miles with his secret, and thats all it takes. It was the one thing he was holding back, as opposed to the real verse where he had been a loner with a dark secret his entire life.
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Jun 20, 2010 05:57
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I loved the ending because it's exactly the kind of ending that enrages nerds who love to overanalyze everything, but works perfectly as an ending that comments on and embraces the spiritual side of human existence. I love BSG's ending for the same reason. You have this whole army of nerds who are atheist (I'm atheist too, but some people have loving sticks in their asses about it) and are extremely militant that there is no spiritual side to the world, even subjectively within human perception, and their minds can't grasp that spirituality is a part of the human experience. As a result they spend the whole show going "head six said she was an angel, but clearly she's an imprint from Caprica Six dying near him during the explosion, THERE'S A SCIENTIFIC EXPLANATION FOR EVERYTHING!". Then the show comes right out and says very firmly "that was an angel, some manner of divinity did have a hand in guiding man and cylon to resolve their differences and begin a new, and the spiritual is important to sentient beings, human and otherwise. Suddenly this nerd contingent is ENRAGED. What the gently caress is this poo poo? You mean god did everything? That's such a loving copout, where's my scientific explanation? I praised this show for its treatment of humanity with dramatic flair, but how dare it comment on one of the oldest rooted facets of humanity! The same thing happened with Lost. I've been hearing people raging left and right. One of my bosses was freaking out on me saying that the ending made no sense and he just knew that this was a setup for a movie or something because there's no way they really just died and went to heaven, and they had to explain all of this. I just love that all these scifi shows are forcing far more literary endings on a demographic that has become way too used to full-closure, perfect wrapup techno-babble endings. It shows me that despite the ever-growing capacity for spectacle to drown out all other aspects of television-craft, some TV writers are still trying to bring a more literary and human-focused element to the screen rather than producing CG 3d explosiony spectacle fests.
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Jun 20, 2010 06:26
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I just watched Season 3's "The Cost of Living" and it's got quite a few goodies in it. First, not only does the Smoke Monster take the form of Eko's dead gang members, but he also takes the form of the altar boy from the church in Nigeria. We never saw anything happen to this kid, and in fact saw him alive at the end of the epiosde - fair to say he's dead? Or, can Smokey take the form of anything - including inanimate objects - that he scans from people? Second, Locke and Eko have a brief conversation about Smokey, and this is where Locke says it was bright and beautiful, but I felt like the two could have been talking about different things. I was thinking that early on, Locke stumbled upon the Source, saw the Light, and has been obsessed with finding it again ever since, just like the MiB. This is what made Locke a natural target for Smokey. Third, Yemi's body is gone from the plane, just like Christian's, and I assume Smokey took it - was it ever settled one way or another if Smokey needs these bodies, or he just wants to hide them so he can better impersonate them and not get caught? Because 70's Dharma/Hostiles had all kinds of precautions about dead bodies, and as we see in this episode at the Other's funeral, they do the old viking bonfire at sea burial for their people. It is cool to think about where Smokey stashes these bodies - one can guess he's been doing this a long time, and has collected a lot of bodies over the millennia. Fourth, as Eko is dying, there is a quick scene of Young Eko and Yemi walking along a dirt road, and then we flash back and Eko dies - sure felt like the Sideways Universe to me, where Eko is reliving his most important time period - when he was a boy and forced to murder in order to protect Yemi. Fifth, possibly, Smokie did not want Eko building the church, hence the messages to start pushing the button. In this episode, in the flashback, Eko is told he owes Yemi a church, and this is his motivation for building one on the Island. Smokey gets in the way of this process, successfully, but surely it cannot be that important. Finally, I remember how much of a bummer this episode was, with Eko dying. I assume the actor wanted out, or whatever, because his character had tons more to give. What a shame the Tailies came and went so quickly. I pour one out for you, Tail Section.
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Jun 20, 2010 16:02
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redshirt posted:First, not only does the Smoke Monster take the form of Eko's dead gang members, but he also takes the form of the altar boy from the church in Nigeria. We never saw anything happen to this kid, and in fact saw him alive at the end of the epiosde - fair to say he's dead? Or, can Smokey take the form of anything - including inanimate objects - that he scans from people? I've wondered this for a while. I remember seeing a list, think it was from one of the podcasts, where Damon & Carlton go over the different things that are or are not the smoke monster. I remember that the spiders that kill Nikki and Paulo are the smoke monster, so I feel like he doesn't necessarily need a dead body to appear as something. Speaking of that list, I can't find it anymore, anyone know where I could find it?
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Jun 20, 2010 18:44
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redshirt posted:I just watched Season 3's "The Cost of Living" and it's got quite a few goodies in it. Wasn't the boy in a dream? I think smoky can make whatever he wants happen in dreams and visions, it's just if he wants to change his form in the real world they need to be dead. redshirt posted:Second, Locke and Eko have a brief conversation about Smokey, and this is where Locke says it was bright and beautiful, but I felt like the two could have been talking about different things. I was thinking that early on, Locke stumbled upon the Source, saw the Light, and has been obsessed with finding it again ever since, just like the MiB. This is what made Locke a natural target for Smokey. We have seen Smoky take the forms of people whose bodies were nowhere near the island, like Richard's wife and Ben's mother. So I think Smoky just takes the bodies to gently caress with people, or to facilitate pretending to be the dead person. redshirt posted:Fourth, as Eko is dying, there is a quick scene of Young Eko and Yemi walking along a dirt road, and then we flash back and Eko dies - sure felt like the Sideways Universe to me, where Eko is reliving his most important time period - when he was a boy and forced to murder in order to protect Yemi. Supposedly he didn't like living in Hawaii and then his parents died so he asked to be written off so he could go home to London. The writers have said that he would have had a major multi season storyline. aniero posted:I've wondered this for a while. I remember seeing a list, think it was from one of the podcasts, where Damon & Carlton go over the different things that are or are not the smoke monster. I remember that the spiders that kill Nikki and Paulo are the smoke monster, so I feel like he doesn't necessarily need a dead body to appear as something. They said that anytime someone who isn't special like Hurley sees a dead person, it's the monster. Though this just confuses things what with Jack seeing Christian on the mainland and Michael seeing Christian on the freighter.The explanation I like the best is that smoky can create projections of himself so he can appear to people without leaving the island.
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Jun 20, 2010 18:56
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aniero posted:I've wondered this for a while. I remember seeing a list, think it was from one of the podcasts, where Damon & Carlton go over the different things that are or are not the smoke monster. I remember that the spiders that kill Nikki and Paulo are the smoke monster, so I feel like he doesn't necessarily need a dead body to appear as something. In the podcast that this was from (I don't know which one it was), they are describing things as either "undead", "monster", or "apparition". They say "monster" for the spiders, but, to me it seems more like just a classification, i.e. spiders are "monsters" and not undead nor apparitions, and not really "THE monster".
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Jun 20, 2010 18:57
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