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The point is more that A, I can move the hostages away from the enemy, while boobytrapping any that follow us, and B, he gets to be a hero!
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Feb 9, 2011 16:09
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bunnyofdoom posted:The point is more that A, I can move the hostages away from the enemy, while boobytrapping any that follow us, and B, he gets to be a hero! go for it! I'm on the Capellans side anyway, especially against the ridiculous space mexicans.
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Feb 9, 2011 16:11
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Affi posted:go for it! Hmmm, that means you want my plan to fail, ergo your encouragement means it's a bad idea. However, you did declare you are on the capellan side, which would lead me to be suspicious of your endorsement, which would lead to me not doing it, just as you planned. Unless, you are actually a Ridiculous space mexican supporter, but my plan was bad, so you faked an allegiance to the capellans to get me to not do it? Or perhaps do it? HOW DEEP DOES THIS RABBIT HOLE GO?
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Feb 9, 2011 16:29
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bunnyofdoom posted:Hmmm, that means you want my plan to fail, ergo your encouragement means it's a bad idea. However, you did declare you are on the capellan side, which would lead me to be suspicious of your endorsement, which would lead to me not doing it, just as you planned. Unless, you are actually a Ridiculous space mexican supporter, but my plan was bad, so you faked an allegiance to the capellans to get me to not do it? Or perhaps do it? Chew on this: I'm ambivalent towards this choice of action.. Muhuhahaha.
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Feb 9, 2011 16:34
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AJ_Impy posted:Chew on this: I'm ambivalent towards this choice of action.. Muhuhahaha. poo poo. I think I'll need to draw up a Venn Diagram for this one.
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Feb 9, 2011 16:40
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bunnyofdoom posted:The point is more that A, I can move the hostages away from the enemy, while boobytrapping any that follow us, and B, he gets to be a hero! I'd start moving him south and see if you can get in on the fight shaping up down there.
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Feb 9, 2011 16:41
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I want to see whatever option leads to maximum carnage.
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Feb 9, 2011 16:55
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AJ_Impy posted:Chew on this: I'm ambivalent towards this choice of action.. Muhuhahaha. I think that I might support this assertion only on Tuesdays from 9 pm to 5 am. go death commandos
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Feb 9, 2011 17:05
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KnoxZone posted:I want to see whatever option leads to maximum carnage. Remember how well Death From Above worked last time? Do that forever, guys! AJ_Impy posted:I noticed that as well, right when the helicopter is supposed to show up, after you kill the Fafnirs and turrets. Was there ever a solution for that? I couldn't find anything on the MekTek forums and a reinstall didn't help so I ended up just doing other Davion missions. Hesperus II is safe for now.
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Feb 9, 2011 18:10
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Is there no enemy infantry on a hostage hex right now? Does that mean they won't be rolling to kill hostages next turn? If they've got twenty more to go, which at a rate of one a turn means twenty turns, plus however many get spared by angry tirades, is the 'time limit' an actual factor in this mission? It looks like the fight's more than enough of an obstacle.
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Feb 9, 2011 18:57
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Dolash posted:Is there no enemy infantry on a hostage hex right now? Does that mean they won't be rolling to kill hostages next turn? Don't forget the kill em all rule.
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Feb 9, 2011 19:16
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bunnyofdoom posted:Don't forget the kill em all rule. That doesn't enter play until La Dama Muerte gets shot for yelling at the Cappies too long. And I don't think it'd work with nobody there to shoot the hostages. As I see it, the Cappies just locked the hostages in or tied them up or something to that effect and now their infantry decided to take a lok at the racket outside.
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Feb 9, 2011 19:29
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Dolash posted:Is there no enemy infantry on a hostage hex right now? Does that mean they won't be rolling to kill hostages next turn? Whoops, there is one and I missed it. And no, the 'time limit' should be very forgiving unless the Death Commandos have something sneaky I haven't mentioned or start kicking down buildings out of spite. PoptartsNinja fucked around with this message at 19:42 on Feb 9, 2011 |
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Feb 9, 2011 19:39
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PoptartsNinja posted:And no, the 'time limit' should be very forgiving unless the Death Commandos have something sneaky I haven't mentioned or start kicking down buildings out of spite. You are the best.
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Feb 9, 2011 19:42
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I imagine they'll only start downing buildings once the hostages are rescued, so run for the border as soon as you get them!
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Feb 9, 2011 19:51
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PoptartsNinja posted:And no, the 'time limit' should be very forgiving unless the Death Commandos have something sneaky I haven't mentioned or start kicking down buildings out of spite. oh man oh man this is being setup to be the best Pyrrhic victory ever! Can you say... they are just about to win, then suddenly sabotaged mech reactor STACKPOLES the buildings 
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Feb 9, 2011 20:01
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I'm also not using the Stackpole / Mechwarrior 4 rules since I think they're stupid.
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Feb 9, 2011 20:30
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In honor of Miller's Marauders, no doubt being mauled by some Clanner surats: The General Motors MAD-3R Marauder  The first thing you're gonna notice about the General Motors Marauder is that long, powerful, proprietary GM Whirlwind Autocannon, standing erect and poised to slam streams of 50mm slugs into your target's vital spots. But magnificent as it is, that AC's not the limit of the Marauder's punishing armament! Twin Hellstar PPCs are holstered low on the gauntleted arms, giving you two-fisted gunslinging power! Linked and synced to the finely-tuned Dalban Hi-Rez fire control system, you'll be able to smack your enemies with double azure bolts of man-made lightning. For close-in work, in the unlikely event you need 'em, each PPC has a Magna Mk II Medium tucked underneath for that knife-range pocket-pistol surprise. Because we know you'd rather dish it out than just sit there like a bitch and take it, we packed the Marauder full of weapons and equipment to let you do unto your enemy before he does unto you! But that beautiful Valiant Lamellor armor is top of the line. Its sleek, curving form, superior engineering, and trade-secret ablative capabilities mean you'll be shrugging off blows in bleeding-edge style! The 300-series fusion plant, built by Vlar to GM specifications, lets you tear up the turf at an unbelievable 65 kph. You won't soon forget the first time you feel that engine roaring underneath you as all 75 tons vault forward, immediately responsive to your slightest command. And elite commanders choose Marauders, not just because of the excellent long-range capability to reach out and ruin someone's day, but because the Dalban Micronics comm/ECM suite is practically lostech! Designed during the Star League, the Dalban will give you the flexibility and push power you need to get your boys operating with whipcrack efficiency. For just 125,000 C-Bills more, you can take your choice of our RS or SS deluxe package, with a chrome decal on your Marauder's torso to show everyone you're a MechWarrior of style and discernment who ain't afraid to kick some rear end! The GM Marauder! It's hot hot HOT!
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Feb 9, 2011 20:31
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PoptartsNinja posted:I'm also not using the Stackpole / Mechwarrior 4 rules since I think they're stupid. I agree, but they do turn a game into about 20 minutes of uncontrollable laughter as everything goes nuclear for no reason the fluff could ever provide.
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Feb 9, 2011 20:44
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Maybe I'll run a joke game with Urbanmech LAMs and the Stackpole Rule, then. We'll call it: Solaris.
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Feb 9, 2011 20:50
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PoptartsNinja posted:Maybe I'll run a joke game with Urbanmech LAMs and the Stackpole Rule, then. We'll call it: Solaris. You could run a Beowulf game where a Hornet and a dozen Urbanmechs take on a Daishi.
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Feb 9, 2011 20:54
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Zeroisanumber posted:You could run a Beowulf game where a Hornet and a dozen Urbanmechs take on a Daishi. My money is on the Urbanmechs and they all kick the Daishi to death.
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Feb 9, 2011 21:00
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The Merry Marauder posted:The General Motors MAD-3R Marauder The MAD-3R is one of the true classics - a heavy mech capable of engaging almost any other machine with a good chance of success. The twin PPCs and AC/5 give the ability to engage at long range, with the medium lasers for close in work, letting the mechwarrior cut his heat buildup while still providing roughly equivalent firepower. The only 'weaknesses' are armor (roughly 80% of max) and heat capacity (16 sinks). Given that the Marauder is intended for a role where it's killing the enemy quickly, these are not really weaknesses at all: a good pilot will ride the heat scale aggressively, accepting movement penalties in exchange for putting their opponent down faster. Along with the Warhammer, the Marauder epitomizes the 'hammer' 'mech. As machines that emphasize firepower over armor, these 'mechs should be used to move in and engage after the enemy has moved into combat with other lance elements. Anvils like the Thunderbolt or Orion, or cavalry machines like the Dragon or Wolverine are ideal for starting the engagement. (Anvils can soak up the damage, cav machines should seek to avoid damage by maneuver.)
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Feb 9, 2011 21:21
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Defiance Industries posted:Then you must join me, in demanding that Adamn Steiner and his whole family be killed immediately by a stray Inferno SRM from Archon Caesar's Banshee-S. The funny thing is, I'm in an A Time of War campaign set during the Civil War right now, and there is a very good chance we are going to run into a certain proponent of "information is ammunition" on Newtown Square. So if my lobbying causes him to die in this thread as well, I could see him die and potentially get my unit's rear end kicked by him at the same time. Or see him die twice, if I'm lucky, which would be hilarious just to see how THAT gets handled. I'm also not sure why I even hate him so much, maybe it's just a matter of "he isn't Caesar," or because the cartoon makes him seem like sort of a putz who only survives because of ridiculous luck and complete ineptitude on the part of Clan Jade Falcon. But I hate him a lot.
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Feb 9, 2011 21:27
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PoptartsNinja posted:I'm also not using the Stackpole / Mechwarrior 4 rules since I think they're stupid. So what is the stackpole rule for us non-TT people? I'm guessing that it is the Engine-explosions that annihilate everything within 50m of the machine?
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Feb 9, 2011 21:29
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Slaan posted:So what is the stackpole rule for us non-TT people? I'm guessing that it is the Engine-explosions that annihilate everything within 50m of the machine? Engines exploding, period. Fusion reactors can't do that, as the reaction would cease pretty much immediately after containment is lost.
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Feb 9, 2011 21:34
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Slaan posted:So what is the stackpole rule for us non-TT people? I'm guessing that it is the Engine-explosions that annihilate everything within 50m of the machine? That's exactly what it is, yeah.
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Feb 9, 2011 21:34
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Fraction Jackson posted:The funny thing is, I'm in an A Time of War campaign set during the Civil War right now, and there is a very good chance we are going to run into a certain proponent of "information is ammunition" on Newtown Square. So if my lobbying causes him to die in this thread as well, I could see him die and potentially get my unit's rear end kicked by him at the same time. Or see him die twice, if I'm lucky, which would be hilarious just to see how THAT gets handled. His granddaughter loses half the Commonwealth, if you want another reason.
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Feb 9, 2011 21:35
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Slaan posted:So what is the stackpole rule for us non-TT people? I'm guessing that it is the Engine-explosions that annihilate everything within 50m of the machine? Named as such for author Michael Stackpole, for whom mech fusion reactors detonated catastrophically roughly ten times per novel. It's wholly unrealistic because that's not now fusion works, but it exists as an in-universe trope and an optional rule that's occasionally funny.
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Feb 9, 2011 21:35
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He triggers it by having Kai's girlfriend just start pulling circuit boards out of the mech. Cause that can't go wrong.
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Feb 9, 2011 21:45
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From what I know of fusion a catastrophic containment failure would either result in the ball of expanding plasma setting the inside of the reactor on fire or a plasma jet drilling through the reactor core and well, whatever else it manage to touch before it cools down/exhaust itself. Not that there is a lot of plasma in a reactor at any time though. Well just guessing.
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Feb 9, 2011 21:46
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Defiance Industries posted:He triggers it by having Kai's girlfriend just start pulling circuit boards out of the mech. Cause that can't go wrong. The logic behind that was that it was basically disabling all the automatic safeties on the fusion reactor, but yeah it's pretty stupid.
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Feb 9, 2011 21:54
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Kenlon posted:The MAD-3R is one of the true classics - a heavy mech capable of engaging almost any other machine with a good chance of success. It's not even the amount of armor but the placement of it. For whatever reason the side torso is the weakest spot in a Marauder. That's a disastrous decision that seriously hampers this design and every variation of it. One hit from any big gun and you have to watch for flankers for the rest of the fight.
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Feb 9, 2011 22:05
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Hob_Gadling posted:It's not even the amount of armor but the placement of it. For whatever reason the side torso is the weakest spot in a Marauder. That's a disastrous decision that seriously hampers this design and every variation of it. One hit from any big gun and you have to watch for flankers for the rest of the fight. Silly as it sounds, I frequently try to put my back to the fighting after a few rounds of heavy engagement in a MAD-3R. Side armor's shredded and heat is so high, you wave your back at the enemy and fire one arm's worth of weaponry. Ideally the right side, because the ammo in the LT is awfully lonely and a bit drafty. Looks stylish, though! Really, the problem is that to get that armament with full heat dissipation and excellent armor coverage with Level 1 tech, you need more mech. And thus the (3025) Marauder II.
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Feb 9, 2011 22:24
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The Merry Marauder posted:Really, the problem is that to get that armament with full heat dissipation and excellent armor coverage with Level 1 tech, you need more mech. And thus the (3025) Marauder II. If you have full dissipation in any mech, of any tech level, you have an inefficient design. Proper designs make use range bands and careful management to maximize their potential. (See the Stalker for the best example of why a 'mech that pushes the scale is superior.) The fetish in 3050-3058 for icebox 'mechs was a mistake, and there's a reason why many of the variants found in the Upgrades TROs ride the heat scale much more heavily. See 3067 for a pile of examples of excellent newtech mechs.
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Feb 10, 2011 00:38
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Kenlon posted:If you have full dissipation in any mech, of any tech level, you have an inefficient design. Proper designs make use range bands and careful management to maximize their potential. If you have a Mech with a schizophrenic assortment of weapons which is well-suited to engagement at any range, it was probably designed by an indecisive twat or contains a Gauss Rifle. I strongly prefer designs with a defined role, as, I would venture to say, do you, based on your previous comments about hammer/anvil/cav Mechs. The MAD-4A Marauder II is the ultimate expression of someone's opinion (the Dragoons, canonically) that the Marauder's job is to hang around at Range 14 and pound the snot out of things. It does it pretty well, given the tech limitations. Kenlon posted:(See the Stalker for the best example of why a 'mech that pushes the scale is superior.) See the Stalker for an example of a very silly looking Mech. I take your point, I just don't agree with you. At range, the Stalker can pelt you with two LRM 10s and two Large Lasers, gaining only 5ish heat per turn. This is respectable. Up close, it packs a quad-pack of MLAS and 2 SRM 6s, which again, is very heat-friendly, but not a whole lot of short-range punch for a 85 ton Mech. I suppose you could 'ride the curve' and take a big ol' heat bump to fire a LLAS up close. The Stalker is a superior jack-of-all-trades/master-of-none, but that doesn't make it any sort of ideal. Kenlon posted:The fetish in 3050-3058 for icebox 'mechs was a mistake, and there's a reason why many of the variants found in the Upgrades TROs ride the heat scale much more heavily. See 3067 for a pile of examples of excellent newtech mechs. One of the things I like(d) most about Battletech was the flawed and idiosyncratic designs, so don't take me as some sort of efficiency advocate. However, I also quite like the waves of design philosophy. It smacks of as much realism as one can hope to look for in a walking-myopic-tank setting. The fetish for new designs running cold and then for ER PPC/Gauss Rifle sets are a reasonable in-universe reaction to the perceived vast superiority of Clan design and technology. Emulation would be inevitable - see also the Blackhawk-KU and Rakshasa. There are similar waves in 3060 and 3067, which are not quite as easy to define succinctly. Production of 'excellent newtech Mechs' after 3067 is largely due to the piles and piles of newly introduced weapons and equipment becoming available, making it much easier to maximize a design for a given role. The Merry Marauder fucked around with this message at 01:18 on Feb 10, 2011 |
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Feb 10, 2011 01:11
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The Merry Marauder posted:Ideally the right side, because the ammo in the LT is awfully lonely and a bit drafty. It always seemed like to me, that if you were playing with level 1 rules and only had a single ton of ammo in the mech (IIRC the MAD's AC/5 only has 1 ton, right?) then the logical place to put it is in the center torso. - Most heavily armored section - if you do get a critical you have 10/11 or 11/12 chance that it's NOT the ammo - without CASE any decent ammo of ammo going critical means your mech is shredded anyway
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Feb 10, 2011 01:12
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WarLocke posted:It always seemed like to me, that if you were playing with level 1 rules and only had a single ton of ammo in the mech (IIRC the MAD's AC/5 only has 1 ton, right?) then the logical place to put it is in the center torso. This is very sensible. There is the point that in olden days, snake-eyes on the Front table was a TAC on Center Torso only, but your point is a good one. I can only speculate that having the ammo in the LT in the stock design is one of those idiosyncratic things to keep from doing the same thing with the ammo on every Mech. The original 3025 TRO has a lot to say about the ammo linkages from LT ammo to RT AC being wonky and prone to failure, so it may also be there for reasons of fluff. (And to discourage people from doing cross-torso feeds on their own designs by peer pressure?) The Merry Marauder fucked around with this message at 01:24 on Feb 10, 2011 |
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Feb 10, 2011 01:22
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WarLocke posted:It always seemed like to me, that if you were playing with level 1 rules and only had a single ton of ammo in the mech (IIRC the MAD's AC/5 only has 1 ton, right?) then the logical place to put it is in the center torso. The head has a perfectly good open critical slot. 
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Feb 10, 2011 01:23
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'The Merry Marauder" posted:If you have a Mech with a schizophrenic assortment of weapons which is well-suited to engagement at any range, it was probably designed by an indecisive twat or contains a Gauss Rifle. I strongly prefer designs with a defined role, as, I would venture to say, do you, based on your previous comments about hammer/anvil/cav Mechs. Strong battlefield role doesn't mean single engagement ranges, though. Take the venerable Thunderbolt. The LRM-15 starts hitting the enemy at long ranges, supplemented by the Large Laser, then dropping the Large to bring the battery of mediums to bear at 6's, then moving to Large, mediums and the SRM at point blank, dropping out weapons individually to manage heat. The T-bolt is an amazing anvil precisely because of it's all range threat - you can't afford to ignore or bypass it without paying for your temerity. The Merry Marauder posted:See the Stalker for an example of a very silly looking Mech. I take your point, I just don't agree with you. At range, the Stalker can pelt you with two LRM 10s and two Large Lasers, gaining only 5ish heat per turn. This is respectable. Up close, it packs a quad-pack of MLAS and 2 SRM 6s, which again, is very heat-friendly, but not a whole lot of short-range punch for a 85 ton Mech. I suppose you could 'ride the curve' and take a big ol' heat bump to fire a LLAS up close. The Stalker is a superior jack-of-all-trades/master-of-none, but that doesn't make it any sort of ideal. You're failing to classify the [/i]Stalker[/i]'s range bands correctly. Long range (10+ hexes): 2x LL, 2x LRM10. Net +4 heat, drop out an LRM if you're conserving ammo or need to move and not eat -1MP. Medium range (magic 6's to 9): 2x LRM10, 2x SRM6, 2xML. Net +1 heat, movement doesn't force you to -MP. Drop out one or both missle pairs for LLs, or conserve SRM ammo in the 7-9 range by swapping them out for more MLs (and a net heat decrease.) Short range (1-5): 2x SRM6, 4x ML, 0 heat OR +2x LL, 2x SRM6, +4 heat, OR LL, 2x SRM6, 2xML, +2 heat, depending on what sort of target you're hitting. And, if you're in water or really need to put someone down now, your larger weapons loadout gives you the ability to drop more firepower than would otherwise be possible. The Stalker is the best all-round pure assault in 3025 because of this flexibility. Though the Awesome, with it's 3/3/2 rotation, comes close. Arguably, the Banshee-S can contest that title, but it's Steiner only, and doesn't count. (4/6 superheavies like the Battlemaster and Zeus aren't true assaults, being designed to work with and lead heavy 'mechs.) quote:There are similar waves in 3060 and 3067, which are not quite as easy to define succinctly. Production of 'excellent newtech Mechs' after 3067 is largely due to the piles and piles of newly introduced weapons and equipment becoming available, making it much easier to maximize a design for a given role. It has less to do with new equipment than with a return to old style design, with 'mechs being designed around range banding and heat management rather than being alpha babies. The realization that 4/6 XL machines are a liability in most cases is also a big deal. (XL is perfectly suited for the new breed of heavy cav machines, though, such as my beloved Lao Hu.)
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Feb 10, 2011 02:00
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