Middle East Thread of Despair: More Broken Than Syria

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Vir: Dec 14, 2007; Does it tickle when your Body Thetans flap their wings, eh Beatrice?

HeroOfTheRevolution posted:

Are you kidding me? He gets to play the great Russian patriot in front of his own people while his lapdog quietly acquiesces to world opinion. It's a win-win situation for him.

Sure, it was probably meant for his domestic fans, but if this triggers widespread resentment against Russia, it's not much of a masterstroke. Maybe it makes sense if Putin is angling to become mayor of Moscow or something, but not if he's intending to represent Russia internationally.

HeroOfTheRevolution posted:

Gadaffi is far from a stable guy and has sponsored people to kill Americans for the greater part of his reign.

This is very true, but after seeing what happened to the Taliban and Saddam Hussein, Gaddafi quit his WMD efforts and stepped down his support of terrorism, stopping Al Qaida, etc. The Lockerbie claims were settled, sanctions were going away, and western investments have been increasing.
From a purely economic and oily point of view, it would have been more expedient to help Gaddafi put down the rebellion - although it would have been political suicide for any western politician to do so.

If Libya had been the first country with an uprising, I'm not sure we'd have reacted fast enough either, but after Tunisia and Egypt had their uprisings, it was clear that this is part of a popular movement rather than an Al Qaida or CIA-run thing.

Pedrophile posted:

Really, if anyone had an interest in Libya's oil it would be Italy, and they've pretty much pussed out since the beginning.

French, Norwegian and UK oil companies are also involved in Libya, and risking it by going against Gaddafi. Italy does provide bases, and has also sent Tornados into Libya to strike ground targets.

# ? Mar 22, 2011 17:41

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# ? Apr 28, 2024 00:36

Brown Moses: Feb 22, 2002

More on American troops shooting villagers:

quote:

Ewen MacAskill, my colleague in Washington has sent this take on the briefing from Locklear.

quote:
Admiral Samuel Locklear, the US commander in the Mediterranean briefing Pentagon reporters from aboard the USS Mount Whitney, twice refused to deny that a US helicopter sent to rescue downed airmen opened fire on Libyan villagers.

If the story was untrue, it seems likely that Locklear would have emphatically denied it and his failure to do so will lend credence to it. He said the rescue mission had been executed as he had expected it to be, given the circumstances. Asked if they had opened fire on villagers, he said he would restrict his comments to saying that an investigation was under way.

# ? Mar 22, 2011 17:44

farraday: Jan 10, 2007; Lower those eyebrows, young man. And the other one.

Brown Moses posted:

More on American troops shooting villagers:

Hearts and motherfucking minds, woooo. I'm looking forward to one day having a professional military.

Also, good news everyone, it's not about oil.

BBC:

quote:

1611: It has emerged Libya has substantial gold reserves, reports the BBC's Andrew Walker. They are worth more than $6bn at current prices, which puts Libya among the top 25 countries in terms of gold reserves. Libya is restricted in how it can use its overseas assets, but most Libyan gold is held inside the country and could generate millions of dollars in revenue for Col Gaddafi.

No blood for gold!

# ? Mar 22, 2011 17:47

Burt Sexual: Jan 26, 2006; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS; Switchblade Switcharoo

Yeah I don't get it. They said they were all lined up (tanks, etc) outside the city. Seems like fish in a barrel and their intent is clear. There are planes in the air right now and they aren't stopping it.

# ? Mar 22, 2011 17:47

Nuclearmonkee: Jun 10, 2009

farraday posted:

Hearts and motherfucking minds, woooo. I'm looking forward to one day having a professional military.

What are you talking about? If you need some brown people shot the gently caress up nobody does it better than the USA. :911:

Now that we've pretty much destroyed all fixed surface anti-air and trashed CQs ancient air force, we should definitely hand control over to NATO or France or whoever the gently caress wants control. They can run SEAD missions and organize a NFZ just as well as anybody.

Hopefully the can blow up some of those tanks over near Zintan. Conventional and social media reports are looking pretty bleak.

Nuclearmonkee fucked around with this message at 17:57 on Mar 22, 2011

# ? Mar 22, 2011 17:53

glug: Mar 12, 2004; JON JONES APOLOGIST #1

Brown Moses posted:

quote:
Locklear says he expects Qatar planes to be up and flying by the weekend (See 1.15pm). Qatar is the first Arab League country to take part in operations in Libya.
I really hope this is a sign that Misrata will get some help soon.

Hey it's nice to see the "working close with our arab allies" thing in action. Are there any other arab nations with troops involved in this right now, or is it mostly "we checked with other brown people and made sure they were cool with us attacking brown people" thing?

farraday posted:

No blood for gold!

$6bn in gold doesn't put a dent in the ~$975bn military budget the US has for the next ~16 months. It's only barely enough to bribe with.

glug fucked around with this message at 18:03 on Mar 22, 2011

# ? Mar 22, 2011 18:00

kw0134: Apr 19, 2003; I buy feet pics🍆

It's funny because according to the NYTimes, no one wants control. It's like everyone realized well after the US that taking command would mean holding the bag if the whole thing goes to hell so watching all the NATO and EU diplomats try to shirk it is a special form of comedy.

Relevant quote:

NY Times posted:

But divisions persisted on Tuesday over how the campaign should continue and under whose command.

Prime Minister David Cameron of Britain has said responsibility for the no-fly zone would be transferred to NATO. But France objected to that, with its foreign minister, Alain Jupp�, saying: �The Arab League does not wish the operation to be entirely placed under NATO responsibility. It isn�t NATO which has taken the initiative up to now.�

Turkey�s prime minister, Recep Tayyip Erdogan, said on Tuesday that the United Nations should be the umbrella for a solely humanitarian operation in Libya, Reuters reported, insisting that his country, a NATO ally, �will never ever be a side pointing weapons at the Libyan people.� The dispute raised concerns that American plans to hand over command of the operation could be delayed by disputes among its partners over who should take control.

# ? Mar 22, 2011 18:04

Priapist: Aug 10, 2002; Heeeere's Herbie!

farraday posted:

Hearts and motherfucking minds, woooo. I'm looking forward to one day having a professional military.

The rescue unit most likely are vets of Afghanistan or Iraq, where they often did come under fire while picking up downed pilots. Itchy trigger fingers, etc. They also had no idea going in who were rebels and who were Gaddafi loyalists.

Details of what happened are sketchy, but so far it appears none of those hit have died. It was also mentioned that the injured boy was hit in the leg. If the crew were shooting to kill there would be dead people for sure. They very well may have been trying to fire warning shots into the ground to keep the crowd back, but bullets do fragment and the injuries could turn out to be from that.

But please, do continue with the "Hurr stupid American barbarians" talk before all the facts are in.

# ? Mar 22, 2011 18:07

farraday: Jan 10, 2007; Lower those eyebrows, young man. And the other one.

Priapist posted:

The rescue unit most likely are vets of Afghanistan or Iraq, where they often did come under fire while picking up downed pilots. Itchy trigger fingers, etc. They also had no idea going in who were rebels and who were Gaddafi loyalists.

Details of what happened are sketchy, but so far it appears none of those hit have died. It was also mentioned that the injured boy was hit in the leg. If the crew were shooting to kill there would be dead people for sure. They very well may have been trying to fire warning shots into the ground to keep the crowd back, but bullets do fragment and the injuries could turn out to be from that.

But please, do continue with the "Hurr stupid American barbarians" talk before all the facts are in.

So they shot at a crowd when they were not sure if it was hostile or not and this is a sign of their professionalism because they make be having combat trauma from our other wars? I think maybe we disagree over the meaning of the term professional

Also, remind me again, the old adage is don't pull the trigger unless you want people to take a few steps back, right?

Pro tip: If you shoot at crowds because you're not sure if they're hostile or not, they will be.

# ? Mar 22, 2011 18:19

killing_fields: Jan 31, 2009

Priapist posted:

The rescue unit most likely are vets of Afghanistan or Iraq, where they often did come under fire while picking up downed pilots. Itchy trigger fingers, etc. They also had no idea going in who were rebels and who were Gaddafi loyalists.

Details of what happened are sketchy, but so far it appears none of those hit have died. It was also mentioned that the injured boy was hit in the leg. If the crew were shooting to kill there would be dead people for sure. They very well may have been trying to fire warning shots into the ground to keep the crowd back, but bullets do fragment and the injuries could turn out to be from that.

But please, do continue with the "Hurr stupid American barbarians" talk before all the facts are in.

We will, thanks for your permission.

# ? Mar 22, 2011 18:23

Competition: Apr 3, 2006; by Fistgrrl

Priapist posted:

The rescue unit most likely are vets of Afghanistan or Iraq, where they often did come under fire while picking up downed pilots. Itchy trigger fingers, etc. They also had no idea going in who were rebels and who were Gaddafi loyalists.

Details of what happened are sketchy, but so far it appears none of those hit have died. It was also mentioned that the injured boy was hit in the leg. If the crew were shooting to kill there would be dead people for sure. They very well may have been trying to fire warning shots into the ground to keep the crowd back, but bullets do fragment and the injuries could turn out to be from that.

But please, do continue with the "Hurr stupid American barbarians" talk before all the facts are in.

I certainly hope they're not ptsd suffering vets from campaigns where American forces have a persistent track record of war crimes against civilians, those are the worst people to send.

# ? Mar 22, 2011 18:30

killing_fields: Jan 31, 2009

Competition posted:

I certainly hope they're not ptsd suffering vets from campaigns where American forces have a persistent track record of war crimes against civilians, those are the worst people to send.

Yeah. What a weird justification for shooting people.

# ? Mar 22, 2011 18:31

Warbadger: Jun 17, 2006

farraday posted:

So they shot at a crowd when they were not sure if it was hostile or not and this is a sign of their professionalism because they make be having combat trauma from our other wars? I think maybe we disagree over the meaning of the term professional

Also, remind me again, the old adage is don't pull the trigger unless you want people to take a few steps back, right?

Pro tip: If you shoot at crowds because you're not sure if they're hostile or not, they will be.

For all we know the crowd was hostile. Pilots from shot down aircraft landing in villages that have been under hostile air attack for weeks are often not greeted with open arms, flowers, and sunshine. If they thought he was a Libyan loyalist pilot they may very well have been trying to kill him.

# ? Mar 22, 2011 18:33

farraday: Jan 10, 2007; Lower those eyebrows, young man. And the other one.

Warbadger posted:

For all we know the crowd was hostile. Pilots from shot down aircraft landing in villages that have been under hostile air attack for weeks are often not greeted with open arms, flowers, and sunshine. If they thought he was a Libyan loyalist pilot they may very well have been trying to kill him.

This is a funny joke you made.

quote:

One of the jet's airmen landed in a field of sheep after ejecting from the plane, then raised his hands and called out "OK, OK" to a crowd who had gathered, the Telegraph cited witness Younis Amruni, 27, as saying.

"I hugged him and said: 'Don't be scared, we are your friends,"' Amruni told the newspaper, adding that people then lined up to shake the airman's hand.

"We are so grateful to these men who are protecting the skies," he said. "We gave him juice and then the revolutionary military people took him away."

A Marine Corps Osprey search and rescue aircraft retrieved the main pilot, while the second crew member, a weapon systems officer who is also a pilot, was recovered by rebel forces and is now in American hands, a U.S. official said in Washington. He spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak on the record.

Hand shakes of mass destruction.

# ? Mar 22, 2011 18:37

Yaos: Feb 22, 2003; She is a cat of significant gravy.

Warbadger posted:

For all we know the crowd was hostile. Pilots from shot down aircraft landing in villages that have been under hostile air attack for weeks are often not greeted with open arms, flowers, and sunshine. If they thought he was a Libyan loyalist pilot they may very well have been trying to kill him.

Another possibility would be the crowd surrounding the pilot and somebody in the helicopter thinking they were attacking him/taking him away. Although I imagine in a helicopter it is difficult to tell what a crowd of people are doing until you're on top of them.

# ? Mar 22, 2011 18:37

iceaim: May 20, 2001

Warbadger posted:

For all we know the crowd was hostile. Pilots from shot down aircraft landing in villages that have been under hostile air attack for weeks are often not greeted with open arms, flowers, and sunshine. If they thought he was a Libyan loyalist pilot they may very well have been trying to kill him.

I think your Avatar speaks for itself. So just shut the gently caress up.

# ? Mar 22, 2011 18:38

Warbadger: Jun 17, 2006

farraday posted:

This is a funny joke you made.

Hand shakes of mass destruction.

They are not a hive mind. Because one pilot in another location was not shot at does not mean that this one was not.

# ? Mar 22, 2011 18:39

killing_fields: Jan 31, 2009

^^You're right. They don't totally have radios and poo poo. What is this, 1960?

farraday posted:

This is a funny joke you made.

Hand shakes of mass destruction.

Haha the part that really does it for me is we gave him juice. Yeah, you strafe those threatening villagers!

I realize the pilot may have been stressed upon ejection and seeing a crowd coming for him, but from the article, it was the other pilots rescue where the shootings occurred.

# ? Mar 22, 2011 18:40

Stroh M.D.: Mar 19, 2011; The eyes can mislead, a smile can lie, but the shoes always tell the truth.

Warbadger posted:

For all we know the crowd was hostile. Pilots from shot down aircraft landing in villages that have been under hostile air attack for weeks are often not greeted with open arms, flowers, and sunshine. If they thought he was a Libyan loyalist pilot they may very well have been trying to kill him.

Yes, his American flight uniform and perfect English can only prove to the rebels that the loyalist forces are even more devious than they thought! We better shoot them first!

There's rationalisation. And then there's just abject stupid.

# ? Mar 22, 2011 18:43

HeroOfTheRevolution: Apr 26, 2008

kw0134 posted:

That's the entire point! If this was purely for our own strategic posturing, why are we throwing away a known and semi-controllable leader for potential chaos? If we were supposedly only in it for cynical purposes the analysis wouldn't have gotten beyond that simple question, and Obama would be steering the conversation to Japan's woes.

The logical answer is that against strict rational sense, we let our ideals sway the decision, and we're going in because we feel it's the "right thing" to do. It may in time be a stupid decision, it may even turn out to have that cynical lining (of that I have no doubt), but it cannot be discounted that at some level there's an altruistic element in ramming the resolution through the UN.

Ah, okay. I misunderstood your argument. We're saying the same thing.

As for the people who got shot, it seems pointless to speculate what went on when it occurred. Suffice to say, the American rescue team was very likely in the wrong for shooting these people, but it's also likely that they had some rational if not excusable reason for doing so likely caused by a highly confusing situation. Taking absolutes in this case, with only a three paragraph AP report, is kind of premature and more than a little ridiculous.

Also, we have Channel 4 News in the UK reporting this, but do we have any independent confirmation?

HeroOfTheRevolution fucked around with this message at 18:51 on Mar 22, 2011

# ? Mar 22, 2011 18:47

Burt Sexual: Jan 26, 2006; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS; Switchblade Switcharoo

HeroOfTheRevolution posted:

Ah, okay. I misunderstood your argument. We're saying the same thing.

As for the people who got shot, it seems pointless to speculate what went on when it occurred. Suffice to say, the American rescue team was very likely in the wrong for shooting these people, but it's also likely that they had some rational if not excusable reason for doing so likely caused by a highly confusing situation. Taking absolutes in this case, with only a three paragraph AP report, is kind of premature and more than a little ridiculous.

Also, we have Channel 4 News in the UK reporting this, but do we have any independent confirmation?

I've not seen any other major media report it. I thought it was strange as I've seen the reports on CNN/etc over and over about the pilots being rescued.

e: even AJE headline story omits anything about shooting.

# ? Mar 22, 2011 18:57

Warbadger: Jun 17, 2006

Stroh M.D. posted:

Yes, his American flight uniform and perfect English can only prove to the rebels that the loyalist forces are even more devious than they thought! We better shoot them first!

There's rationalisation. And then there's just abject stupid.

Yes, I'm sure the villagers are all well versed on long distance US military flight suit identification and conversed with him in perfect english before even reaching him. Also, certainly all Libyan opposition forces and for that matter all armed civilians are up to date on events from the last two days, despite large scale retreats/massive amounts of misinformation/and attempts to supress and jam communications. After all, with radios, computers, and cell phones we have eliminated mistakes. As there is absolutely no chance of a misunderstanding from the Libyan side of things obviously we can safely kneejerk and decide the same mistake was made by the Americans!

# ? Mar 22, 2011 18:57

Competition: Apr 3, 2006; by Fistgrrl

Warbadger posted:

Yes, I'm sure the villagers are all well versed on US military flight suit identification and conversed with him in perfect english before even reaching him. Also, certainly all Libyan opposition forces and for that matter all armed civilians are up to date on events from the last two days, despite large scale retreats/massive amounts of misinformation/and attempts to supress and jam communications. After all, with radios, computers, and cell phones we have eliminated mistakes. As there is absolutely no chance of a misunderstanding from the Libyan side of things obviously we can safely kneejerk and decide the same mistake was made by the Americans!

Well if we look at the track record of Libyan villagers compared to US soldiers the latter wins out right in the "shooting at the wrong people" department.

# ? Mar 22, 2011 18:59

HeroOfTheRevolution: Apr 26, 2008

Darth123123 posted:

I've not seen any other major media report it. I thought it was strange as I've seen the reports on CNN/etc over and over about the pilots being rescued.

e: even AJE headline story omits anything about shooting.

You would think this would be a major news story, especially on AJE. Maybe they're a little more thorough in seeking verification before going live with a story, though. The only thing AJE has is that a farmer saw one and a chopper came and take him away, and that they attempted to communicate but could not understand each other.

e: AJE's live blog has it, but says 'Channel 4 News is reporting'... so no, we still have no verification.

HeroOfTheRevolution fucked around with this message at 19:06 on Mar 22, 2011

# ? Mar 22, 2011 19:04

Cartouche: Jan 4, 2011

Brown Moses posted:

More on American troops shooting villagers:

Basically guilty until proven innocent?

# ? Mar 22, 2011 19:04

Brown Moses: Feb 22, 2002

Well the US Military are denying it:

quote:

Breaking news from Tom Kington on the USS Kearsarge - who has had a "100%" denial from the US military that Libyan civilians were shot by a rescue mission for downed airmen. He writes:

quote:
A US military spokesman has denied reports that US Marines rescuing a downed pilot in Libya on Monday night shot and injured six civilians.

"It didn't happen, I can deny this 100%," said Captain Richard Ulsh, a spokesman for the US Marines.

Two pilots parachuted from their US Air Force F-15E near Benghazi after their aircraft suffered a mechanical failure. Two Osprey tiltrotors based on USS Kearsarge off the Libyan coast were dispatched to rescue the pilots, who landed separately. The Osprey has two rotors and can take off vertically before the rotors swivel to allow it to fly like a plane.

One pilot was picked up and brought back to the Kearsarge, where he is being given medical treatment but is in good condition. The US military has said it picked up the second pilot but has not revealed his whereabouts.

Each Osprey was manned by a 12 strong squad of armed Marines, but Ulsh said no shots were fired. "The Osprey is not armed and the Marines barely came off the aircraft," he said. "I was in the landing force operations centre (on the Kearsarge) and firing was never reported."

quote:

The denial from on the USS Kearsarge contradicts reports on the ground. The Associated Press reports a second plane strafed the field where the pilot went down. It says Hamid Moussa el-Amruni, on whose family's farm the plane landed was himself was shot.

He suffered shrapnel wounds in his leg and back, but he could still walk. He used an old broomstick as a crutch and said he held no grudge, believing it was an accident. He said the second crew member came down in a different field and was picked up by a helicopter, an account that coincided with the US explanation of the rescue, AP reported.

# ? Mar 22, 2011 19:08

Brown Moses: Feb 22, 2002

Also, seriously don't watch the video marked "HORRIFIC" on the LibyaFeb17 front page unless you are very jaded.

# ? Mar 22, 2011 19:09

NihilismNow: Aug 31, 2003

The Netherlands had been holding out for it to become a NATO operation but the latest news out of the Hague is that the cabinet will decide to join the intervention with a KDC-10, unspecified number of F16's and a Minesweeper already in the area.

# ? Mar 22, 2011 19:15

HeroOfTheRevolution: Apr 26, 2008

So we have a Channel 4 News Report saying that the villagers were shot when the helicopter picked the pilot up, an AP report saying that the villagers were shot when a plane strafed the field after the ejection, and the military saying that it didn't happen and that it wasn't even helicopters that evacuated them (edit: though, to be fair, the Osprey looks like a helicopter, but you would think an English journalist would take care of those nuances).

Hmmm... well, I'll wait and see if AJE or another outlet picks this up (the AP doesn't count, being the AP), but it's smelling pretty funny guys.

HeroOfTheRevolution fucked around with this message at 19:18 on Mar 22, 2011

# ? Mar 22, 2011 19:15

Brown Moses: Feb 22, 2002

Nic Robertson of CNN is getting a tour of Tripoli:

Going out with govt officials to see what's been hit over past couple days in Tripoli.
Appears we are being taken to port area of Tripoli, where we can see several large warehouses that appear burnt and twisted.

Buildings' roofs appear torn apart, possibily still smoldering, Libyans gathering on seafront to look

Saw 4 mobile rocket launchers destroyed and still smoldering next to crater in warehouse.

Rocket launchers burnt out, but did not appear to be loaded with missiles.. rubble strewn over large area

Spoke to young navy officer. Said few light injuries. Made no mention of Gadhafi, but called for ceasefire

Government says rocket launchers part of training facility.. We saw rockets in this naval facility (Re-tweeting to correct spelling)

3 large missile or bomb craters at dockside ware house.. Appear to be aftermath of coalition strike last night

Told it's military training & repair facility, which also used by civilians- but was clearly military facility, part of Tripoli naval port

# ? Mar 22, 2011 19:19

Stroh M.D.: Mar 19, 2011; The eyes can mislead, a smile can lie, but the shoes always tell the truth.

HeroOfTheRevolution posted:

So we have a Channel 4 News Report saying that the villagers were shot when the helicopter picked the pilot up, an AP report saying that the villagers were shot when a plane strafed the field after the ejection, and the military saying that it didn't happen and that it wasn't even helicopters that evacuated them (edit: though, to be fair, the Osprey looks like a helicopter, but you would think an English journalist would take care of those nuances).

Hmmm... well, I'll wait and see if AJE or another outlet picks this up (the AP doesn't count, being the AP), but it's smelling pretty funny guys.

I think we can agree on that one, and I don't expect any farmer, in any part of the world, to correctly identify an Osprey as a "tilt-rotor VTOL aircraft" rather than helicopter.

Stroh M.D. fucked around with this message at 19:23 on Mar 22, 2011

# ? Mar 22, 2011 19:20

Nonsense: Jan 26, 2007

Warbadger posted:

Yes, I'm sure the villagers are all well versed on long distance US military flight suit identification and conversed with him in perfect english before even reaching him. Also, certainly all Libyan opposition forces and for that matter all armed civilians are up to date on events from the last two days, despite large scale retreats/massive amounts of misinformation/and attempts to supress and jam communications. After all, with radios, computers, and cell phones we have eliminated mistakes. As there is absolutely no chance of a misunderstanding from the Libyan side of things obviously we can safely kneejerk and decide the same mistake was made by the Americans!

How about you get over yourself, and realize American soldiers make poo poo loads of mistakes very often during operations? Sorry but they really do. They're already court-martialing some disgusting rear end in a top hat who went around with a few other soldiers murdering civilians wantonly in Afghanistan. These recovery guys obviously had no such intent, but they over reacted and civilians were hurt. Mistakes are made, often with no reason.

The bombing will continue, and the rebellion is still under siege.

Nonsense fucked around with this message at 19:25 on Mar 22, 2011

# ? Mar 22, 2011 19:21

Mozi: Apr 4, 2004; Forms change so fast
Time is moving past
Memory is smoke
Gonna get wider when I die; Nap Ghost

At least there were no casualties.

# ? Mar 22, 2011 19:21

HeroOfTheRevolution: Apr 26, 2008

Stroh M.D. posted:

I think we can agree on that one, I don't expect any farmer, in any part of the world, to correctly identify an Osprey as a "tilt-rotor VTOL aircraft" rather than helicopter.

I was just thinking that they could have called it a plane instead. Depending on the tilt of its rotor, without prior knowledge of the Osprey, you'd probably call it one or the other. But something in this story doesn't seem to jive. We'll see though, always important to get confirmation.

# ? Mar 22, 2011 19:24

Burt Sexual: Jan 26, 2006; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS; Switchblade Switcharoo

Nonsense posted:

How about you get over yourself, and realize American soldiers make poo poo loads of mistakes very often during operations? Sorry but they really do. They're already court-martialing some disgusting rear end in a top hat who went around with a few other soldiers murdering civilians wantonly in Afghanistan. These recovery guys obviously had no such intent, but they over reacted and civilians were hurt. Mistakes are made, often with no reason.

Possibly hurt.

# ? Mar 22, 2011 19:26

Paradox Personified: Mar 15, 2010; SoroScrew

Mozi posted:

At least there were no casualties.

You don't hear about the good news. :smith:

# ? Mar 22, 2011 19:26

Nonsense: Jan 26, 2007

Darth123123 posted:

Possibly hurt.

The automatic assumption is they're loving dead. I'm playing it fair with "they were hurt".

# ? Mar 22, 2011 19:27

Stroh M.D.: Mar 19, 2011; The eyes can mislead, a smile can lie, but the shoes always tell the truth.

I'm not criticising, I just thought the image of a random Libyan farmer being actually capable of reporting it as anything but a chopper to be a bit amusing

Forgot the smiley :eng99:

Stroh M.D. fucked around with this message at 19:31 on Mar 22, 2011

# ? Mar 22, 2011 19:28

euphronius: Feb 18, 2009

I dont think it is inaccurate to call an Osprey a helicopter.

# ? Mar 22, 2011 19:31

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# ? Apr 28, 2024 00:36

Nonsense: Jan 26, 2007

The real PR story isn't the F-15, it's the loving piece of poo poo Osprey that actually worked.

# ? Mar 22, 2011 19:32

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Middle East Thread of Despair: More Broken Than Syria

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