Middle East Thread of Despair: More Broken Than Syria

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Brown Moses: Feb 22, 2002

Pretty sure he said in today's press conference he was still sticking to the original plan.

# ? Aug 22, 2011 23:03

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# ? Apr 26, 2024 11:02

Toast Museum: Dec 3, 2005; 30% Iron Chef

Sivias posted:

Did Ion have a world stage, a revolution aided by international powers, and a populace surrounded by democratic reform?

As long as the NTC doesn't disrupt trade or start indiscriminately firing on civilians, is there any particular reason for most countries to care much about the NTC reneging on its promises not to seek office?

# ? Aug 22, 2011 23:06

farraday: Jan 10, 2007; Lower those eyebrows, young man. And the other one.

Jut posted:

World stage: Check
Aided by international powers: If the KGB were involved as rumoured, check
Populace surrounded by democratic reform: considering the USSR just fell, check.

Yea they are dying off thankfully, but that's not stopped the population as a whole getting screwed. Corruption is endemic along with a "gently caress you, got mine" attitude.

That was back in May before he fired everyone over the Younes killing. New council now no?

All of that is true Jut, but by comparison it could clearly be worse. With the spectrum of options if Ion Illescu is as bad as it gets Libya will probably be okay, eventually.

I would assume based on the NTC origin statement that the new cabinet brought it would be under the same restrictions. But really we'll have a better idea when they hopefully open their books as it were now that Ghaddafi is deposed.

Hopefully the NTC can actually start moving in to providing some stability now, but they'll have to show some better leadership than they've managed so far.

# ? Aug 22, 2011 23:07

Rip Testes: Jan 29, 2004; I never forget a face, but in your case I'll be glad to make an exception.

CNN: Libya's Ambassdor says Mohammad Gaddafi escaped

CNN, along with the rest of US media has been far behind on events, so take it for what it's worth. How did he get away?

# ? Aug 22, 2011 23:14

lorn Wayne: Jan 7, 2006

So what's the over-under on 'The west installs a puppet/IMF shill, who sells off all state owned assets to private enterprises and siphons off most of the proceeds to his Swiss bank account while being lauded by major media outlets as Libya's saviour'?

# ? Aug 22, 2011 23:14

Golbez: Oct 9, 2002; 1 2 3!
If you want to take a shot at me get in line, line
1 2 3!
Baby, I've had all my shots and I'm fine

lorn Wayne posted:

So what's the over-under on 'The west installs a puppet/IMF shill, who sells off all state owned assets to private enterprises and siphons off most of the proceeds to his Swiss bank account while being lauded by major media outlets as Libya's saviour'?

Installed with what army?

# ? Aug 22, 2011 23:15

Ireland Sucks: May 16, 2004

Rip Testes posted:

CNN: Libya's Ambassdor says Mohammad Gaddafi escaped

CNN, along with the rest of US media has been far behind on events, so take it for what it's worth. How did he get away?

Someone posted earlier that Loyalists sprung him out of house arrest. He isn't that big of a fish anyway but its going to take a lot for him to avoid recapture.

# ? Aug 22, 2011 23:16

Seizure Meat: Jul 23, 2008; by Smythe

This whole war is like one of the more ridiculous episodes of G.I. Joe.

# ? Aug 22, 2011 23:18

Zeroisanumber: Oct 23, 2010; Nap Ghost

lorn Wayne posted:

So what's the over-under on 'The west installs a puppet/IMF shill, who sells off all state owned assets to private enterprises and siphons off most of the proceeds to his Swiss bank account while being lauded by major media outlets as Libya's saviour'?

Installs how? We don't have an army over there, just a few military advisers. And we're not bloodly likely to invade.

# ? Aug 22, 2011 23:25

SneezeOfTheDecade: Feb 6, 2011; gettin' covid all
over your posts

lorn Wayne posted:

The west installs a puppet/IMF shill

Apropos of nothing, but am I the only one who still reads IMF and parses it as "Impossible Mission Force"?

Also, I'll give you very high odds on that actually happening, but an almost certain chance that Lizzie Phelan will claim it has.

# ? Aug 22, 2011 23:28

farraday: Jan 10, 2007; Lower those eyebrows, young man. And the other one.

VikingSkull posted:

This whole war is like one of the more ridiculous episodes of G.I. Joe.

How about one of the more ridiculous episodes of transformers?

http://transformers.wikia.com/wiki/Socialist_Democratic_Federated_Republic_of_Carbombya

# ? Aug 22, 2011 23:29

Brown Moses: Feb 22, 2002

Apparently NATO are saying 3 scuds were launched from Sirte towards Misrata, all three were destroyed.

# ? Aug 22, 2011 23:34

Fog Tripper: Mar 3, 2008; by Smythe

I don't know what to make of all the footage I see over and over, of rebels firing haphazardly from the hip down the street (cameraman never shows what they are firing at, mind you) while pedestrians walk around calmly in the background.

About 5% of recent footage is of actual gunbattles, while the rest smacks of playing to the camera. I guess they have to show SOMETHING, other than celebratory shooting at clouds.

# ? Aug 22, 2011 23:35

Brown Moses: Feb 22, 2002

NATO is also bombing Gaddafi's compound in Tripoli, so expect that to be overrun by rebels by the morning.

# ? Aug 22, 2011 23:40

Namarrgon: Dec 23, 2008; Congratulations on not getting fit in 2011!

Brown Moses posted:

Apparently NATO are saying 3 scuds were launched from Sirte towards Misrata, all three were destroyed.

I think Gaddafi was vastly overestimating his "I will take this country down with me" approach.

# ? Aug 22, 2011 23:46

Lascivious Sloth: Apr 26, 2008; by sebmojo

US bombing and aid

quote:

Data released by the Pentagon on Monday shows that the final Libyan rebel push into Tripoli was preceded by an upswing in US air strikes, including by unmanned Predator drones.

The Pentagon said there were a total of 38 air strikes from August 10 - 22, or an average of about three a day.

That compares to a total of 224 strikes from April 1 to August 10, an average of about one and a half a day.

The Pentagon spent about $896m through the end of July on the Libya campaign, a figure that includes daily military operations and munitions used, as well as humanitarian assistance.

The US has also sold allies about $221m worth of ammunition, repair parts, fuel and technical assistance from the start of the Libya mission until August 19, it said.

The Pentagon said it has so far spent half of the $25m authorized for non-lethal aid to Libyan rebels, including military food rations and other supplies, like boots, tents, uniforms and personal protective gear.

The US military has not provided weapons or other "lethal" support to Libyan rebels, officials say. - Reuters

Gad compound still being bombed

quote:

NATO warplanes were bombing Muammar Gaddafi's compound in Tripoli early on Tuesday, Al-Arabiya television reported, citing rebel sources who said they could hear the attacks from nearby. - Reuters

Google Maps changes Green Square Name

quote:

Google says the Libyan location previously known as "Green Square" has been changed to "Martyr's Square" on its popular online mapping service.

Martyr's Square was the name of the square in Tripoli before Gaddafi regime renamed it. Google says the name change was made by a user late Sunday night, as rebel forces took over the city. It was approved by Google, meaning it was visible to the public, shortly thereafter.

Google says the square's name has been re-labeled Martyr's Square, though map users can continue to search using either name to find the location.

Google uses a broad range of sources to keep its maps up to date. This includes public and commercial data providers as well as user contributions.

Mohammad Escapes

quote:

Mohammad Gaddafi, a son of Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi, has escaped after having been arrested by rebels in Tripoli, Libya's US ambassador said Monday.

Mohammad Gaddafi was arrested on Sunday as rebels seized control of large swathes of Tripoli.

A senior rebel source confirmed the escape to AFP, saying "Yes, it's true, he has escaped." - AFP

# ? Aug 22, 2011 23:48

Old James: Nov 20, 2003; Wait a sec. I don't know an Old James!

Golbez posted:

lorn Wayne posted:
So what's the over-under on 'The west installs a puppet/IMF shill, who sells off all state owned assets to private enterprises and siphons off most of the proceeds to his Swiss bank account while being lauded by major media outlets as Libya's saviour'?

Installed with what army?

Bribes and corruption can do the trick.

# ? Aug 23, 2011 00:15

School Nickname: Apr 23, 2010; *fffffff-fffaaaaaaarrrtt*

How in the world did they manage to let Gadaffi's son escape? Did he pull some Snake Plissken poo poo or what? We all heard the phone call where his home got invaded.

Apparently the Libyan Government spokesman is saying that Saif Al-Islam is free, when the ICC already stated that they had him. This guy must be either delusional or he has his own blondes helping him snort a few lines of coke every time he appears before a camera.

BBC News posted:

2344:
The Libyan government spokesman also repeats a denial that Saif al-Islam Gaddafi has been captured. "As for Saif al-Islam, they are dreaming and wishing for [his capture]," he says.

Edit: Welp, it appears that Saif Al-Islam wasn't captured at all?

School Nickname fucked around with this message at 00:35 on Aug 23, 2011

# ? Aug 23, 2011 00:25

Arkane: Dec 19, 2006; by R. Guyovich

quote:

Breaking Al Arabiya: AFP: Saif Al Islam Gaddafi wasn't captured and is now in Tripoli #Libya

Uhh....what?

# ? Aug 23, 2011 00:30

Lascivious Sloth: Apr 26, 2008; by sebmojo

More troops from Misrata

quote:

Libyan rebels on Monday said they had sent more fighters and weaponry by sea to Tripoli from their coastal enclave of Misrata, about 200km further east.

"Several ships arrived in our beloved capital Tripoli from Misrata, with a large number of fighters and ammunition on board," said a statement from the Information Centre of the Military Council of Misrata.

The previous day, during the rebel offensive on the capital, nearly 200 fighters from the Misrata rebels had infiltrated Tripoli by sea," it added.

vv Yes because a few made some ambitious claims that the media ran with that means the entire rebel force is innocuous

I'm wondering if the rebels are even IN Tripoli now!1

Lascivious Sloth fucked around with this message at 00:39 on Aug 23, 2011

# ? Aug 23, 2011 00:31

Arkane: Dec 19, 2006; by R. Guyovich

quote:

@paulineCNN Chance: Saif Ghadafi said all of his family members in Tripoli. He sped off in armored vehicle. So the question: was he ever in rebel hands?

I'm wondering if they even control anything significant in Tripoli at this point.

# ? Aug 23, 2011 00:35

Arkane: Dec 19, 2006; by R. Guyovich

Lascivious Sloth posted:

vv Yes because a few made some ambitious claims that the media ran with that means the entire rebel force is innocuous

I'm wondering if the rebels are even IN Tripoli now!1

Not sure what innocuous is doing in that sentence, but yes, my fears would be that they are wildly exaggerating their control of the city. I'm not doubting they made their way in, but perhaps they have been driven back out. It's hard to know, because the embeds seem to be on the outskirts, and the rest of the journos are practically being held hostage by the Gaddafi regime in the hotel.

The rebels are the source for a majority of the news, including the latest bit that NATO is bombing the Gaddafi compound (based on the source of "rebels who could hear it").

# ? Aug 23, 2011 00:44

Arkane: Dec 19, 2006; by R. Guyovich

@BBCNews on Saif al-Islam: Says father is safe and in #Tripoli. bbc.in/nwsP8Y #qaddafi

@feb17voices Hay Demashk: Caller says pro-gaddafi loyalists are visible in street, firing in air, shouts of "rats come out of your houses"

And more:

quote:

@SultanAlQassemi Al Arabiya now showing images of Saif Al Islam Gaddafi "during his meeting in Tripoli" no date or time is provided. Crowds cheering him

@AntDeRosa The Libyan rebel national transitional council head is the person who told Al-Jazeera that Saif Al-Islam, Gaddafi's son, had been captured

@RuwaydaMustafah Saif al-Islam, Son of Gaddafi says his father "lured rebels into a trap in Tripoli". according to Matthew Chance, BBC.

Arkane fucked around with this message at 00:50 on Aug 23, 2011

# ? Aug 23, 2011 00:47

Xandu: Feb 19, 2006; It's hard to be humble when you're as great as I am.

There's lots of journalists in Tripoli that aren't stuck in the Rixos. They've repeatedly indicated fighting is ongoing (including a couple drive-bys in Green Square), but that the rebels generally control the city.

This really does make the NTC seem even more unreliable though.

# ? Aug 23, 2011 00:51

neamp: Jun 24, 2003

Right now it's actually looking like the fighting in Libya is still far from over. Some areas in Tripoli are still under complete control of Gaddafi loyalists and in other areas it seems some have just gone into hiding after rebels arrived but are not ready to give up yet.
Gaddafi army was not cleared from between Tunisian border and Sabratha before the rushed attack on Tripoli and those troops also have not given up but are now attacking Zuwarah. Likewise there is shelling from Gaddafi forces in Zliten and Khums.

# ? Aug 23, 2011 00:53

Arkane: Dec 19, 2006; by R. Guyovich

He's now live on TV to crowds cheering apparently...Al Arabiya channel

Looks like this entire thing has turned on its head.

# ? Aug 23, 2011 00:54

Xandu: Feb 19, 2006; It's hard to be humble when you're as great as I am.

Does al-Arabiya have an online stream?

# ? Aug 23, 2011 00:54

Fangz: Jul 5, 2007; Oh I see! This must be the Bad Opinion Zone!

Don't these guys usually have a bunch of body doubles?

# ? Aug 23, 2011 00:55

Seizure Meat: Jul 23, 2008; by Smythe

If the rebels ran from the west to Tripoli, didn't secure their flank (and supply line) and are really getting attacked from the rear, I don't know if I'll laugh or cry.

# ? Aug 23, 2011 00:57

Arkane: Dec 19, 2006; by R. Guyovich

Saif just said he is going to take the camera on a tour of Tripoli and show the entire city is safe.

# ? Aug 23, 2011 00:58

torb main: Jul 28, 2004; SELL SELL SELL

Arkane posted:

Saif just said he is going to take the camera on a tour of Tripoli and show the entire city is safe.

Is it possible this was pre-recorded?

# ? Aug 23, 2011 00:58

Pajser: Jan 28, 2006

A journalist in Rixos just tweeted this:

quote:

Matthew Chance

Just had face to face with Saif #Gadhafi - he said word of his detention was a trick by rebels. #cnn #libya

Huge villain moment. He must have been creaming himself.

# ? Aug 23, 2011 00:58

Hefty Leftist: Jun 26, 2011; "You know how vodka or whiskey are distilled multiple times to taste good? It's the same with shit. After being digested for the third time shit starts to taste reeeeeeaaaally yummy."

Anybody else extremely confused at just what the gently caress is going on?

# ? Aug 23, 2011 00:59

Lascivious Sloth: Apr 26, 2008; by sebmojo

Xandu posted:

There's lots of journalists in Tripoli that aren't stuck in the Rixos. They've repeatedly indicated fighting is ongoing (including a couple drive-bys in Green Square), but that the rebels generally control the city.

This really does make the NTC seem even more unreliable though.

It wasn't the NTC that claimed they had Saif, it was one person, Luis Moreno-Ocampo, from the ICC.

Arkane posted:

He's now live on TV to crowds cheering apparently...Al Arabiya channel

Looks like this entire thing has turned on its head.

Looks like no one has the facts right now to make such extreme claims to be honest. Time and verifiable sources will provide the facts.

# ? Aug 23, 2011 00:59

torb main: Jul 28, 2004; SELL SELL SELL

Pajser posted:

A journalist in Rixos just tweeted this:

Huge villain moment. He must have been creaming himself.

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

# ? Aug 23, 2011 01:00

empiricus: Apr 27, 2011; by Ozmaugh

Doesn't excuse the fact that 2 other sons are in their custody, and that the rebels are extending their grip on Tripoli.

# ? Aug 23, 2011 01:02

Arkane: Dec 19, 2006; by R. Guyovich

Alman posted:

Is it possible this was pre-recorded?

# ? Aug 23, 2011 01:02

sharknado slashfic: Jun 24, 2011

ThePutty posted:

Anybody else extremely confused at just what the gently caress is going on?

Was Lizzie right this whole time? :tinfoil:

# ? Aug 23, 2011 01:03

Pajser: Jan 28, 2006

https://twitter.com/!/SultanAlQassemi

quote:

Safif Gaddafi "Come with me (to journalists) we will take more journalists on a tour of Tripoli, in the Lexus, yallah (come on)"

Either NTC is has a case of premature celebration, or Saif has gone off rails.

# ? Aug 23, 2011 01:04

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# ? Apr 26, 2024 11:02

Hefty Leftist: Jun 26, 2011; "You know how vodka or whiskey are distilled multiple times to taste good? It's the same with shit. After being digested for the third time shit starts to taste reeeeeeaaaally yummy."

Brown Moses, have you heard anything about all this?

# ? Aug 23, 2011 01:05

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