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Brown Moses
Feb 22, 2002

The Syrian government is now claiming Al Jazeera is building sets of Syrian cities to smear the government.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xQ-qhB1uzg

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Nenonen
Oct 22, 2009

Mulla on aina kolkyt donaa taskussa
During these harsh times it's nice to hear that the Libyan propaganda masterminds found themselves new jobs :)

Brown Moses
Feb 22, 2002

quote:

Red Cross: At least 13 mass graves found in Libya
The International Committee of the Red Cross says at least 13 mass graves have been found in Libya over the past three weeks.

The Geneva-based Red Cross says its staff assisted in the recovery of 125 bodies found at 12 different sites in and around Tripoli.

It says remains of 34 people were also recovered from a site in the Nafusa mountain village of Galaa in western Libya.

ICRC spokesman Steven Anderson said Wednesday that more mass graves are being found every week.

The aid group says it is helping ensure the remains are properly recovered so that the identities of the dead can be established and relatives informed.

It said it is not involved in collecting evidence that could be used in war crimes or other legal proceedings.

quote:

Gaddafi has called on the U.N. Security Council to protect his hometown of Sirte — still held by forces loyal to him — from what he called NATO “atrocities”.

“If Sirte is isolated from the rest of the world in order for atrocities to be committed against it, then the world has a duty not to be absent and you have to take your international responsibility and intervene immediately to stop this crime,” Gaddafi was quoted as saying in a letter read out on Syrian-based Arrai TV.

Brown Moses fucked around with this message at 19:50 on Sep 14, 2011

Brown Moses
Feb 22, 2002

Hadeel Al-Shalchi has been tweeting from outside Bani Walid, it contains some very interesting information:

quote:

Sorry have been awol lately. Been still hanging out in the desert outside #BaniWalid. Day 12 of waiting for the city to fall
Ther's been a lot of tension between the spokesppl here. Fighters resent older Army/NTC people.
Also tension between #BaniWalid fighters and outsiders.
Outsiders say #BaniWalid fighters prevent them from entering homes of #Gadhafi loyalists to shield relatives.
There's a lot of squabbling between young guys with arms here...
BaniWalid fighters have become aggressive w journalists, not allowing us to front or access to commanders
Some may ask why #BaniWalid figthers are taking forever to enter the city esp when they say they outnumber the #Gadhafi forces
Fighters say they still need to wait for famlieis in #BaniWalid to evacauate.
Also resistance from #gadhafi forces is way bigger than expected. Fighters say many loyalists from #tripoli etc have taken refuge in BW
Fighters in #BaniWalid have medium weapons _ AKs, sniper rifles, anti aircraft. #Gadhafi figthers have grad rockets, mortars
Also the reality is that #BaniWalid happens to be pretty pro-#Gadhafi. They're stubborn and many call #Feb17 the NATO revolution
NTC military commander Daw Saleheen told @AP that "it will take less than a week to liberate
Saleheen also said Seif al-Islam and #Gadhafi spox Moussa Ibrahim are inside
It's frustrating for us waiting in the desert, but the war in #libya doesn't work according to our news priorities, so must be patient :)

Nuclearmonkee
Jun 10, 2009


Brown Moses posted:

The Syrian government is now claiming Al Jazeera is building sets of Syrian cities to smear the government.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xQ-qhB1uzg

I'm sure they convinced roughly no-one with that amazingly retarded statement. Who thought that was a good lie?


Nenonen posted:

During these harsh times it's nice to hear that the Libyan propaganda masterminds found themselves new jobs :)

Oh

Brown Moses
Feb 22, 2002

Sarkozy, Cameron and Erdogan are visting Libya together tomorrow

quote:

Suleiman Fortia, a representative of the National Transitional Council for the Libyan city of Misrata, told the Associated Press news agency that both British Prime Minister David Cameron and the French President NIcolas Sarkozy are traveling to LIbya on Thursday.

There was no official confirmation of the visit from both Sarkozy and Cameron's offices.

Fojar38
Sep 2, 2011


Sorry I meant to say I hope that the police use maximum force and kill or maim a bunch of innocent people, thus paving a way for a proletarian uprising and socialist utopia


also here's a stupid take
---------------------------->

quote:

I'm sure they convinced roughly no-one with that amazingly retarded statement. Who thought that was a good lie?

I'm sure that Lizzie is furiously writing down this obviously objective and unbiased source, and we'll be seeing it cited by morons in news comments sections before the week is over.

Burt Sexual
Jan 26, 2006

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Switchblade Switcharoo

Wow. Think of the security needed for that. There will be some boots on ground for the event I'm sure.

Xandu
Feb 19, 2006


It's hard to be humble when you're as great as I am.

Darth123123 posted:

Wow. Think of the security needed for that. There will be some boots on ground for the event I'm sure.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compagnies_R%C3%A9publicaines_de_S%C3%A9curit%C3%A9

Sarkozy is bringing 80 of these guys and I'm sure Erdogan and Cameron are similar.

Xerxes17
Feb 17, 2011

fap fap SPLOOGE posted:

It's just one of those jeeps with a recoilless gun on it. All the same I like how they've got panties over the gun barrel, for luck I presume.

Even on a low-pressure weapon like an SPG-9 (assuming that's what it is), having some sand in your gun barrel is A-Very-Bad-Thing. It can lead to catastrophic damage of the weapon or it's operators. hence, the ersatz muzzle cover made with underwear. :eng101:

Scaramouche
Mar 26, 2001

SPACE FACE! SPACE FACE!

Xerxes17 posted:

Even on a low-pressure weapon like an SPG-9 (assuming that's what it is), having some sand in your gun barrel is A-Very-Bad-Thing. It can lead to catastrophic damage of the weapon or it's operators. hence, the ersatz muzzle cover made with underwear. :eng101:

I was going to say this too, and I'm not even a TFR type. This desert must be hell on the weapons, especially the ad hoc weapons the rebels were using. Is there evidence of more jury-rigged systems like this to keep barrels/breaches clear?

geegee
Aug 6, 2005

Brown Moses posted:

This is exactly the problem some people have, they just can't seperate any form of political Islam from Osama Bin Laden, and take every single story about any chance of Islam influencing the future politics of the region as proof of some sort of Al Qaeda victory in the region.
There's varying degrees of this, from plain old ignorance to people who think it's part of Obama's plan to reestablish the caliphate. Some look at what Turkey is up to in the region and think a Turkish-Egyptian invasion of Israel is just round the corner, and freak out because the NTC has said Libyan law will be based on Sharia, but really they are just being dumb as poo poo.


You and Xandu are correct that ignorance of the varying degrees of fealty to Islamic principles is rife but not everyone who is leery of Islamists in government is an uninformed mouthbreather. In general people should be mistrustful of any politician who lives out of a Koran (or bible). Luckily for you this problem is less acute in Blighty but on this side of the pond we have bands of Christian "Salafists" - no sooner has one left the White House but we have two more of these chuckleheads trying to get in. Anyway, Islam being all-pervasive in Tunisia, Libya, Egypt, etc means a totally secular, representative, democracy isn't possible. Plus, on the principle that its better to have them on the inside pissing out than on the outside pissing in including them in government is no bad thing itself.

Besides, political Islamist groups are hardly monolithic, the most recent example being a piece on PBS news tonight with the head of the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood's political arm and a member of MB disagreeing on some pretty fundamental issues.

Brown Moses
Feb 22, 2002

Scaramouche posted:

I was going to say this too, and I'm not even a TFR type. This desert must be hell on the weapons, especially the ad hoc weapons the rebels were using. Is there evidence of more jury-rigged systems like this to keep barrels/breaches clear?

I've seen several condoms on the end of gun barrels in various photos.

Killer robot
Sep 6, 2010

I was having the most wonderful dream. I think you were in it!
Pillbug

Brown Moses posted:

I've seen several condoms on the end of gun barrels in various photos.

That's an old trick too, not just for sand but for damp conditions.

Brown Moses
Feb 22, 2002

Here's today's morning round up:
McCaltchy - Empty village raises concerns about fate of black Libyans

quote:

This town was once home to thousands of mostly black non-Arab residents. Now, the only manmade sound is a generator that powers a small militia checkpoint, where rebels say the town is a "closed military area."

What happened to the residents of Tawergha appears to be another sign that despite the rebel leadership's pledges that they'll exact no revenge on supporters of deposed dictator Moammar Gadhafi, Libya's new rulers often are dealing harshly with the country's black residents.

Reuters - Niger calls for help to secure Libyan border

quote:

Niger called on Wednesday for international help to secure its northern border with Libya, saying the conflict to the north was holding back efforts by its new civilian government to find stability and develop its economy

WSJ - Standoff in Libya Buffer Zone

quote:

AL-GADDAHIYA, Libya—Troops loyal to Libya's transitional leaders conducted tense sweeps this week in Al-Gaddahiya, a onetime bastion of support for Col. Moammar Gadhafi, amid mounting evidence that Libya's fugitive former strongman is preparing for a protracted insurgency campaign.

IRIN - Civil society breaks through

quote:

Sidelined under Muammar Gaddafi, Libyan civil society organizations are beginning to assume an important role in helping the most vulnerable in “liberated” areas.

"After 42 years of doing the wrong things, people are now doing the right things,” said Khaled Ben-Ali, head of the Libyan Committee for Humanitarian Aid & Relief (LibyanAid).

Speaking from Benghazi Ben-Ali said he had been overwhelmed by ordinary Libyans’ ability to mobilize and organize, starting new organizations from scratch.

AP - Venezuela oppose rebels in Libya's UN seat

quote:

Countries belonging to a left-leaning Latin America trade group oppose giving Libya's U.N. member seat to the former rebels who ousted Moammar Gadhafi's government, the Venezuelan ambassador said in a Wednesday letter to the new General Assembly president.

AP - UN resolution would create UN mission in Libya

quote:

The Security Council is considering a new resolution that would establish a U.N. mission in Libya, unfreeze assets of two major oil companies and lift a ban on flights by Libyan aircraft, according to a copy obtained Wednesday by The Associated Press.

Washington Post - Islamists emerge in force in new Libya

quote:

For decades, bearded men in Libya were afraid to walk in the streets or go to the mosque, worried that to be seen as an Islamist would land them in prison, or worse.

As Libya’s leader, Moammar Gaddafi regarded Islamists as the greatest threat to his authority, and he ordered thousands of them detained, tortured and, in some cases, killed. The lucky ones fled the country in droves. But with Gaddafi now in hiding, Islamists are vying to have a say in a new Libya, which they say should have a system based on Islamic law.

New York Times - Islamists’ Growing Sway Raises Questions for Libya

quote:

In the emerging post-Qaddafi Libya, the most influential politician may well be Ali Sallabi, who has no formal title but commands broad respect as an Islamic scholar and populist orator who was instrumental in leading the mass uprising.

New York Times - Senior American Diplomat in Tripoli Says Islamists Are Not a Threat

quote:

America’s top diplomat for the Middle East said on Wednesday that he was monitoring the growing influence of Islamists on the interim government that has replaced Col. Muammar el-Qaddafi in Libya, but does not consider that influence a significant threat.

Al Jazeera English - US envoy in Tripoli praises NTC over security

quote:

A senior US envoy has visited Tripoli to show support for Libya's new leaders, saying the National Transitional Council (NTC) was getting the country's many armed groups under control and that the aftermath of Libya's uprising would not be dominated by one faction.

LA Times - Libya, the anti-Iraq

quote:

A top U.S. envoy arrived in Libya's capital Wednesday bearing best wishes but no promises of cash, no battalions of troops, no stocks of armored Humvees or blast barriers — and no blueprints for rebuilding a nation.

It is early yet, less than a month since Tripoli fell and Moammar Kadafi disappeared. He is still out there somewhere, urging allies who retain control of several cities to "turn Libya into true hell," as his spokesman said in a new audio message.

The future is uncertain. The political process is frenzied and bewildering; hosts of gun trucks and Kalashnikov-wielding rebels patrol the streets.

But in at least one key respect, Tripoli has become a kind of anti-Baghdad: a capital where the longtime tyrant has been sent packing, yet where no foreign troops are on the ground. Normality appears to be taking hold, and it is Libyans themselves who are calling the shots.

Brown Moses
Feb 22, 2002

Here's a chance for Gaddafi Loyalist to do us all a favour

quote:

Reuters has more on Cameron and Sarkozy's trip to Libya, which it describes as their "victory lap".

quote:

Both leaders are hugely popular on the streets of Libya, where "Merci Sarkozy" and "Thank you Britain" are common graffiti slogans. Both may hope to earn political dividends back home from what now appears to have been a successful bet.

But on the eve of their visit, the leader of Libya's National Transitional Council said heavy battles lie ahead against Gaddafi loyalists who have refused to surrender.

National Transitional Council vice chairman Abdel Hafiz Ghogo told Reuters the two leaders would visit both Tripoli and Benghazi, where the NTC rulers are still based even though Gaddafi opponents seized the capital more than three weeks ago.

Reuters also reports that Turkish prime minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan is expected in Libya on Friday with Egypt's foreign minister, Mohammed Kamel Amr.

Brown Moses
Feb 22, 2002

An update on the situation in Sirte

quote:

Any satisfaction that David Cameron and Nicolas Sarkozy will draw from today's visit may be tempered with anxiety about when exactly this war will finish, writes Chris Stephen in Misrata.

quote:

It is nearly four weeks since rebel forces entered Tripoli, yet pro-Gaddafi forces are still holding out in the coastal stronghold of Sirte and in the towns of Bani Walid and Sabha.

On 27 September, Nato's mandate, already extended by three months in June, is due to run out. A further three months' extension can be agreed by the alliance, but Cameron is likely to want to bring down the curtain on what has proved a controversial mission without wanting to seek a further extension.

That may be one reason why Nato jets continue to pound Sirte each day: no city, apart from Tripoli, has endured such punishment from Nato strike planes in this war.

Since 24 August, when attention was switched from the Libyan capital, Nato has destroyed 296 military targets in and around Sirte; Yesterday's strikes included a command post, a multiple-barrelled rocket launcher and four radar sites.

The problem for Nato, and for rebel forces outside the city, is that Sirte, built near the site of the ancient Phoenician city of Macomedes-Euphranta, is Gaddafi's birthplace, home of the Gaddafi tribe, and has a lot of kit; much of it around the sprawling Ghardabiya air base just south of the city.

On 20 March, the second day of the air war, and seven days before Nato agreed on taking command of the operation, 42 hardened aircraft shelters were destroyed by American B2 stealth bombers.

A Sirte rebel who escaped the town on Monday to join opposition forces ringing the city said that any attacking force must cope also with the hostility of the Gaddafi tribe, and its tribal militia who patrol the streets of the town.

Adding to the problems rebel forces face is that the city centre is home to merchants originally from Misrata, who are now penned in, effectively as human shields, by Gaddafi militias who have cut power and food supplies going in.
Couple of small but useful updates from Ben Wedeman

quote:

Libyan revolutionary forces now control Birak airbase outside Al-Gira, north of Sabha, second largest airbase in south
Revolutionary forces have eye on Abdallah Sanousi, one of Qadhafi's top intelligence chiefs wanted by the ICC. Sanousi's hometown is Al-Gira
In middle of night watched 100s untested revolutionary fighters flee from front under Grad attack. Others stood their ground near Al-Gira.
Have seen "fighters" on Sabha offensive have no weapons, are hoping to pick weapons off enemy, captured arms depots, along the way
And some posters from Benghazi


Rycalawre
Nov 6, 2009
Never though I would see "God Bless David Cameron" in my lifetime.

Brown Moses
Feb 22, 2002

Here's the article about Sarkozy's and Cameron's visit, nothing exciting really.

This article is far more interesting. It describes in detail a potential war crime committed and the difficulties faced by the victims in finding justice, really worth a read.

King Dopplepopolos
Aug 3, 2007

Give us a raise, loser!

Brown Moses posted:

And some posters from Benghazi



Is ... is that the Russian flag on top?

Brown Moses
Feb 22, 2002

Yeah, I saw that, I was wondering what it was doing there. Maybe it's as close to a French flag as they can manage?
Meanwhile, a major attack has started on Sirte

quote:

Libyan rebels this morning launched a major offensive to capture the city of Sirte, Muammar Gaddafi's birthplace and the last of his coastal strongholds still holding-out, writes Chris Stephen in Misrata.

quote:

Nine hundred armed rebel pickup trucks, the largest mobile force so far assembled for a single operation, has attacked the western edge of city, defended by loyalist troops and armed militia from the Gaddafi tribe.

Misrata's military council said loyalist forces were massed in the western suburbs to fight off the attack, and claimed they are using civilians as "human shields".

Rebel sources in Misrata say they are concerned about the fate of several hundred families, originally from Misrata, living in the central First District, who loyalist militias have been surrounding for several days, having cut water, food and power supplies.
[edit]
More on the Sirte attack

quote:

Cheered on by residents who flashed "V" for victory signs and chanted Allahu Akbar (God is greatest), the troops loyal to the National Transitional Council (NTC) massed early morning in Misrata and then rolled out of the port city.

The convoy comprised of heavy artillery and pickup trucks loaded with machineguns, rocket launchers and Katyusha rockets, and its fighters were well stocked with food, water and ammunition.

But roadside support dropped off as the convoy headed through villages towards Sirte, with children and teenagers running alongside but adults standing further back with arms folded and showing little emotion.

The convoy split up at the desert town of Abu Qurin, from where one of its commanders said they would approach Sirte from three directions in a pincer movement.

"We are turning the tables on Gaddafi. We were attacked in Misrata on three fronts, and now we're going to attack Sirte on three fronts," said Fawzy Sawawy, head of the Mountains Brigade.

As they headed farther to the east, an AFP correspondent received unconfirmed reports that NATO struck a south-bound convoy of pro-Gaddafi armoured vehicles about 50 kilometres (30 miles) from Sirte.

The rooftops of vehicles in the Misrata convoy were painted yellow and red in an apparent signal to NATO that they are not Gaddafi's forces.

While wary of mercenaries, the young men in the convoy expressed confidence of overcoming the pro-Kadhafi forces in Sirte thanks to their combat experience in the devastating, months-long battle for Misrata.

"Misrata's forces are among the strongest and most experienced," Mohammed al-Gawi, a 24-year-old in the convoy, told AFP.

Another Mountains Brigade fighter, Ashraf al-Qot, said he expected the battle for Sirte to be harder than that for Tripoli, which fell in just a few days late last month.

"Sirte is not as big as Tripoli symbolically but we think the resistance in Sirte will be greater than that of the capital because Gaddafi's soldiers retreated there," said Qot.

"Mercenaries do not surrender, they will fight till they die, but Gaddafi's former soldiers might surrender because he's not likely to be there to command their loyalty," added the 17-year-old.

Ali Ligod, 25 and also from Misrata, predicted small clashes and a Tripoli-like retreat by Gaddafi's men.

"In Tripoli, we thought there would be a huge fight but there were only a few simple battles," Ligod told AFP.

"We would prefer to settle things peacefully and not spill blood.

"We are not like Gaddafi's forces. We value every soul from our ranks or theirs.

"We have a goal which is freedom; they have nothing."

The task of the forces loyal to Libya's new rulers appeared to have been made easier as their advance was preceded by a series of NATO air strikes in and around Sirte.

In an operational update, NATO said it had on Wednesday struck a command and control node, a military vehicle storage facility, four radar systems and two surface-to-air missile systems in the vicinity of Sirte.

Brown Moses fucked around with this message at 14:20 on Sep 15, 2011

Sandweed
Sep 7, 2006

All your friends are me.

What the gently caress is wrong with Chavez? At this point, he's one mustache away from becoming the next wacky dictator.

Brown Moses
Feb 22, 2002

quote:

Number 10 has sent out a bullet-point guide on the measures that Cameron is setting out in Libya today.

It is divided into three sections: security, humanitarian aid, and reconstruction.

quote:

Security
• Deploy a small military liaison team for six months to work alongside the US with the NTC to establish a counter-proliferation programme, focussed on identifying, securing and disabling small surface to air missiles.
• Provide £1m from the UK's conflict pool to fund NGO teams of civilian experts who specialise in weapons decommissioning and disposal - who will work with NTC personnel to: undertake a full inventory of sites and systems; instigate physical security and stockpile management programmes; and identify which missiles can be destroyed.
• Offer technical assistance to help with the destruction of remaining chemical agent stocks under the auspices of the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW) and in liaison with international partners.
• Provide £60,000 worth of additional communications equipment for the Libyan police in Benghazi such as repeaters and antennas to enhance the current capacity and enable better coordination with Police throughout Benghazi.
• Provide expert forensic advice and assistance, if requested by the NTC, to help gather and preserve evidence of human rights abuses.

Humanitarian aid
• Assist in the treatment of those most seriously wounded in the war by providing 50 places at specialist hospitals in the UK. The costs of the treatment and transportation of those injured will be paid for by the Libyan authorities.
• Help to protect around a million people in Libya from the threat of deadly landmines and unexploded ordnance as they return to their homes and businesses in areas worst affected by providing an additional £600,000 to the Mines Advisory Group.

Supporting the NTC in their efforts to rebuild Libya
• Now make available approx £600m more of Libyan assets because they are no longer under the control of Gaddafi and as a result of EU delisting.
• Push a new Resolution at the UN Security Council tomorrow which will mandate a new UN mission, continue the protection of civilians and release overseas Libyan assets. This will allow £12bn of assets frozen in the UK to be used to support transition and stabilisation over the coming months. And it will enable the Libyan oil companies to operate freely, which is critical to Libya meeting its immediate needs and funding its own reconstruction.

az jan jananam
Sep 6, 2011
HI, I'M HARDCORE SAX HERE TO DROP A NICE JUICY TURD OF A POST FROM UP ON HIGH
3 Allawi clerics have spoken out against Bashar al-Assad, which might be significant.

http://english.alarabiya.net/articles/2011/09/12/166476.html

quote:

أصدر ثلاثة من كبار مشايخ الطائفة العلوية في مدينة حمص بياناً أعلنوا فيه براءتهم من "الأعمال الوحشية" التي يقوم بها النظام السوري بحق المحتجين، ومؤكدين في الوقت نفسه أن نظام الأسد لم ولن يمثل طائفتهم الشريفة في أي حال من الأحوال".

Three of the highest clerics of the Allawi sect in Homs released a statement that states their innocence from the "monstrous works" undertaken by the Syrian regime against protesters, and emphasized at the same time that "The Assad regime did not and will not represent their honored sect in any shape or form."



"National Unity- Kurds and Arabs"

Brown Moses
Feb 22, 2002

Do you have any idea what percentage of the population they would represent?

Ham
Apr 30, 2009

You're BALD!

az jan jananam posted:

3 Allawi clerics have spoken out against Bashar al-Assad, which might be significant.

http://english.alarabiya.net/articles/2011/09/12/166476.html


Three of the highest clerics of the Allawi sect in Homs released a statement that states their innocence from the "monstrous works" undertaken by the Syrian regime against protesters, and emphasized at the same time that "The Assad regime did not and will not represent their honored sect in any shape or form."



"National Unity- Kurds and Arabs"

Off topic but are you a native speaker or did you learn Arabic? That's a great translation but it's too literal in some parts: "monstrous works" should actually be "monstrous acts" or "monstrous deeds", but the literal translation for the word is works.

Also there's probably a better word than "innocence".

Golbez
Oct 9, 2002

1 2 3!
If you want to take a shot at me get in line, line
1 2 3!
Baby, I've had all my shots and I'm fine

Brown Moses posted:



From right to left: Obama, Sarkozy, Cameron, ... Who's that?

Brown Moses
Feb 22, 2002

Bit of news from Egypt

quote:

*An Egyptian court on Thursday sentenced steel magnate Ahmed Ezz and former industrial development chief Amr Assal to 10 years in prison and a joint fine of 660 million Egyptian pounds for corruption under ex-president Hosni Mubarak.*
*The court also sentenced former Trade and Industry Minister Rachid Mohamed Rachid in absentia to 15 years and a fine of 1.4 billion Egyptian pounds, his third conviction in many months.*
That's roughly $100 million and $270 million respectively.

Brown Moses
Feb 22, 2002

Just saw this on AP

quote:

Syrian activists form opposition council
A group of Syrian opposition activists announced Thursday the creation of a council designed to present a united front against President Bashar Assad's regime, which has waged a bloody crackdown on anti-government protesters during the past six months.

The Syrian opposition consists of a variety of groups with often differing ideologies, including Islamists, secularists and leftists, and there have been numerous meetings of exiles and others who say they represent the opposition.

But activists said the new "Syrian National Council," formed during a meeting in Turkey, will try to establish consensus on dealing with Assad and the world community. It groups some 140 opposition figures, including exiled opponents and 70 dissidents inside Syria, said Basma Kodmani, a Paris-based academic.

A popular uprising began in Syria in mid-March, amid a wave of anti-government protests in the Arab world that have already toppled autocrats in Tunisia, Egypt and Libya. Assad has reacted harshly, with deadly force that the U.N. estimates has left some 2,600 people dead.

The new council aims to "convey the Syrian people's just problems on the international platform, to form a pluralist and democratic state," a statement said. It also hopes to bring down the "leadership that is ruling through dictatorship, and to unite the prominent politicians under one umbrella."

Although not everyone in Syria's opposition supports the initiative, the council's statement said its door is open to anyone who wants to join. It also stressed the need for a "revolution through peaceful means" in order to "bring down the regime through legitimate means and to protect state institutions."

The emphasis on unity comes amid fears of civil war between Assad's ruling minority Alawite sect and the country's Sunni Muslim majority.

Louay Safi, a U.S.-based academic told The Associated Press that the council is broad-based and includes Sunnis, Shiites, Alawites, Kurds and members of the Muslim Brotherhood. He said it is "open to everyone unless they are against democracy."

Meanwhile, French Foreign Ministry spokeman Bernard Valero said Syrian opposition members are meeting in Paris with French officials on Thursday and Friday, though he did not identify the figures or elaborate on the meetings.

Syrian opposition members in Istanbul said they were in contact with France but had no scheduled talks with French officials this week.

Foreign Minister Alain Juppe said recently that France, Syria's onetime colonial ruler, will develop its contacts with Syria's opposition in a new effort to pressure Assad's regime.

Golbez
Oct 9, 2002

1 2 3!
If you want to take a shot at me get in line, line
1 2 3!
Baby, I've had all my shots and I'm fine
Could that blessedly be the beginning of the end? It worked in Libya. But, in Libya, they had the benefit of being geographically a little more secure than anywhere in Syria.

Brown Moses
Feb 22, 2002

Syria's a different kettle of fish, I think it depends if Iran runs out of money to send to Syria to support Assad's regime.

Sarkozy, Cameron and friends just gave a speech in Benghazi, Ismael Zmirli (ChangeInLibya) tweeted some quotes from the speech

quote:

Cameron: "People in Britain salute your courage, and while we are proud for helping you, this is your victory."
Cameron: "Gaddafi said he will hunt you down like rats, but you showed the courage of lions, and we salute your courage"
Cameron: "Your friends in Britain, France & rest of the world will stand with you as you build your democracy and your future"
Sarkozy: "Benghazi, Libyan and Arab youth.. France supports you and supports your liberty/freedom"
Sarkozy: "You wanted peace, freedom and economic development... France, the EU and the UK wish you all the best"
Sarkozy: "My friends in Benghazi.. I have one wish: We hope for one, free, united Libya" Crowds: "Libya, Libya, Libya!!"
Sarkozy: "You've shown your courage, today you have to show a new courage, you have to show mercy and reconciliation"
Sarkozy: "Vive la Benghazie, vive la Libie"
I'm also seeing Alain Juppe and William Hague in the crowd... wow
Looks like the leaders are going down to shake hands and take photos with the crowd O.o

Fangz
Jul 5, 2007

Oh I see! This must be the Bad Opinion Zone!
The Syrian national council sounds effectively meaningless to me. Just a random group of dissidents getting together in a foreign country, with very little obvious credibility amongst the people suffering in Syria now. It would be very unwise for those supporting possible intervention (which is pretty drat unlikely anyway) to see these guys as some kind of new regime in waiting.

Brown Moses
Feb 22, 2002

Sounds like the battle for Sirte is beginning

quote:

Libyan govt forces enter Sirte - TV
Libyan forces loyal to the interim govt have entered the city of Sirte from the western and southern sides, a correspondent for the Al Jazeera television channel reported on Thursday.

The channel, which carried the news in a brief headline, did not give further details.

Al Arabiya also carried a report that government forces had entered Sirte through the western gate of the city.

Xandu
Feb 19, 2006


It's hard to be humble when you're as great as I am.
Hmm

http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/meast/09/15/syria.unrest/ posted:

- Syrian activists are denouncing the Turkish government in the wake of the Syrian regime's announcement that it has a deserted army officer in custody.

The officer is Lt. Col. Hussein al-Harmoush, one of the first Syrian army officers to publicly desert and begin making online declarations denouncing the Damascus regime.

"The Turks handed him to the Syrian secret police," said Omar al-Muqdad, a prominent Syrian opposition activist who is now in exile in Turkey applying for refugee status.

"The Turkish government is directly responsible for Harmoush's destiny, because Harmoush was a refugee on their territory. They have to be honest about him. ...under international rules, any country that receives him has to protect him," al-Muqdad said.

Al-Harmoush called on all Syrian soldiers to defect and mobilize against President Bashar al-Assad. Eventually he fled Syria to Turkey.

Two weeks ago, al-Muqdad called CNN in a panic, saying al-Harmoush had gone missing from the refugee camp in Turkey where he'd been living. At the time, he suspected Syrian security agents had kidnapped the defecting officer.

"I talked to him on the morning of August 29th," al-Muqdad said.

"He said 'I have a meeting with a Turkish security man. When I finish I will call you.' I waited for three days and didn't hear from him. Then after that we discovered that the security man took him and didn't send him back to the camp. They sent him to Syria directly. The Turks made a trick with Harmoush. They caught him in Turkey and sent him to Syria."

The Syrian Arab News Agency said Syrian TV will broadcast al-Harmoush's confession on Thursday and aired images of him to tease his comments, scheduled to be shown at 1:30 p.m. ET.

Another Syrian activist, Omar Idilbi of the Local Coordination Committees of Syria, said that from what Syrian TV is showing, there are signs that al-Harmoush has been tortured.

CNN has previously asked the Turkish Foreign Ministry about al-Harmoush, but Turkish diplomats said they were not familiar with his case.

Turkish Foreign Ministry officials could not immediately be reached for comment in light of the appearance of al-Harmoush in Syrian custody. They were accompanying Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan on a tour of Egypt, Tunisia and Libya.

In Egypt, the first stop on the Turkish delegation's trip, Syrian activists tried to confront Erdgoan about al-Harmoush. When Erdogan emerged from the headquarters of the Arab League in Cairo on Tuesday, a crowd of angry Syrian activists stood outside the gates chanting "Erdogan Coward" and "Erdogan, where is Harmoush?"

Erdogan waved to the crowd, apparently not understanding the question. But one Syrian activist cornered a senior Turkish official next to the government motorcade and demanded to know al-Harmoush's whereabouts.

The Turkish official had no idea what he was talking about. Turkey is critical to the Syrian opposition movement. Dissidents have fled to Turkey to escape the ongoing government crackdown in Syria and have been holding opposition meetings in Turkish cities.

On Thursday, a Syrian opposition council is announcing its creation in Istanbul, the latest in a number of groups claiming to represent the opposition in Syria and abroad.

But now, with Syria announcing it has al-Harmoush in custody, opposition activists said they feel betrayed by the Turkish government.

"I can't trust the Turks any more. They are hypocrites," said al-Muqdad.

"There are a lot of questions that the Syrian government and the Turkish government should answer," said Idilbi, who is based in Beirut, Lebanon.

The importance of al-Harmoush to the Syrian regime became evident September 8, when opposition activists and residents inside Syria called CNN to report Syrian security forces had attacked the village of Ibleen, where al-Harmoush's brother Mohammed lived.

According to the London-based Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, a number of Syrian army defectors had taken shelter in Ibleen while awaiting the chance to smuggle themselves across the nearby border to Turkey.
Video filmed of the aftermath of the Syrian government raid showed blood-spattered houses, burned-out cars and trucks, and a ransacked home.

At least five people were killed in the raid, including al-Harmoush's brother. His corpse was shown in another video released by opposition activists. Thousands of people attended his funeral.
Syria's state news agency claimed responsibility for the raid on Ibleen, saying Syrian security forces had killed a number of "armed terrorists" who had been residing there.

CeeJee
Dec 4, 2001
Oven Wrangler
Maybe al-Harmoush was a Kurd, the Arab Spring is all good and fine for Turkey but they can't have any Kurds going around like they can start a rebellion.

Brown Moses
Feb 22, 2002

Piers Scholfield tweeted about the situation in Sirte

quote:

NTC spox to BBC: Misrata fighters reached 8-10km from Sirte centre. Faced fierce resistance, retreated couple of km to treat casualties.

Hoda Abdel-Hamid tweeted this

quote:

reports of intense fighting on the western side of #Sirte. G loyalists putting up fierce resistance

This is the area where the fighting is taking place.

Young Freud
Nov 26, 2006

Brown Moses posted:

Piers Scholfield tweeted about the situation in Sirte


Hoda Abdel-Hamid tweeted this


This is the area where the fighting is taking place.

I wonder were the Qaddafi Loyalist forces are and were the Libyan forces are. Those orchards and hosing seem like prime fall back positions.

Also, what's the Loyalists' endgame here? There's no hope now for them to retake the country. There's definitely areas that are more favorable to them, but they're enclaves right now. Qaddafi may or may not be out of the country. Are they trying to force a settlement?

Amused to Death
Aug 10, 2009

google "The Night Witches", and prepare for :stare:

Brown Moses posted:




Alight I've racked my brain and just can't put a name to the face, who is all the way on the left.

Young Freud
Nov 26, 2006

Amused to Death posted:

Alight I've racked my brain and just can't put a name to the face, who is all the way on the left.

Maybe Salwa El-Deghali? I can't tell because the only picture of her I've seen is her in a head scarf, not in a polo shirt.

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Brown Moses
Feb 22, 2002

Couple of tweets from Carl F Kleberg

quote:

Misrata mil. council say fighters have reached #Sirte city center. Say #Gaddafi forces in insurance building and beach houses.
Misrata mil. council say #NTC fighters control #Sirte city entrances, will "begin process of combing".

Also, a video report from the BBC, Gen Younes' tribe cry conspiracy and vow revenge.
David Cameron in Benghazi today:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvYy5xpkYAE
This is a video of the convoy of vehicles that headed to Sirte from Misrata.

Brown Moses fucked around with this message at 20:20 on Sep 15, 2011

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