|
Mister Roboto posted:Didn't Dooku and Sidious (pre-lightning) do exactly that? Sidious was just pretending not to do it actually, he had the whole black hood look in TPM, he just didn't go public with it...
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2011 15:26
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 30, 2024 11:53 |
|
|
draize_train posted:I've heard this so many times now that I'm tempted to give it a try. You say that the story is more or less rewritten; does this mean that the actual plot is different? As you predict, no, the plot is ESSENTIALLY the same, just without so many plot holes and bizarre motivations. Many things, like Palpatine's plans, actually make SENSE, and you actually feel empathy for the characters. FYI, I've only read the Bounty Hunter book back in High School, so I don't have much to compare it to (I've avoided pretty much all the other books).
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2011 15:28
|
|
|
So I got the Blurays. Boy oh boy are those movies pretty. Havent got through everything yet but I started watching the bonus documentaries first. Highly reccomend "Empire 30 years later". Kershner and Lucas have gotten over their squables and remenice fondly on it. Its surreal to see them talking so amiably after reading "A secret history of Star Wars" (Im not done but I just finished the ESB chapter so I watched the 30years later doc first thing.) Anyway, watch the 70s/80s making off Doc to see original footage, then see the bluray quality, it is truely mind boggling how amazing it looks. Only watched TPM and I am very pleased with the changes in there. The plot seemed more comprehensable the extra podracing was fun and Yoda is better. Maybe I dont have the nostalgia to be upset at those changes, well see how I feel with the OT. I havent watched TPM in years, and I swear they added dialog to explain the political games better, or maybe it just made sense to me more this time. but... Question: The Trade Federation get "Taxed" and thats why they take over Naboo? Who taxed them and how does taking over a planet help them? Are they getting out of the trade buisness and into the overlord buisness? Its obsious Papa P is engineering this conflict to gain power. I just dont get the TF's plan at all. WTF are they doing? Bonus story. I have a 1.5 year old lil girl and older kids. My 11 year old daughter wanted to watch TPM first because she wanted "the one with Jar-Jar. He's funny"  So I said ok, the toddler is playing around not paying attention and sees a lightsaber fight. She runs off into her room and runs out with a toy lightsaber and a big old grin! Its always been in her toybox but she never new what it was. Now she runs around the house with it and pokes people, giggles madly and runs away.  So I havent totally failed as a parent.
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2011 17:02
|
|
|
The ROTS novelization is good, but I didn't find it as orgasmic as most people seem to. It's Stover, but still working in the restraints of a Lucas script. Traitor and Shatterpoint are both better.
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2011 17:43
|
|
|
draize_train posted:I've heard this so many times now that I'm tempted to give it a try. You say that the story is more or less rewritten; does this mean that the actual plot is different (I'm suspecting the answer is no, since I don't think anyone could get away with that in an official Star Wars novelization), or just that lines are rewritten, motivations explained, etc? Because I find it kind of hard to believe that someone could write a decent prequel story within the godawful framework of clones vs. droids and Palpatine's poorly thought-out machinations. Well, it's been a while (I last read it in about 2007), but it's a sort of combination of all of the above. On the more subtle level, the actual dialogue is almost always different to what's in the film, with pithy one-liners being replaced by much longer discussions. I don't remember the book having the infamous "from my point of view, the Jedi are evil," for example, but it's more than that. All the dialogue is different, and it's all better. But as for the plot... it's hard to describe. The framework is still there, and things happen in just about the same order, but... it's almost as if the author treated the screenplay as his very early notes, and just fixed it. So things happen in slightly different ways in order to make much more sense. The conversion to the Dark Side is not sudden any more, it's ponderous and gradual across the whole story, and Palpatine's gentle coercion is utterly convincing. His scenes in particular are a real treat, the writer basically gives us a totally convincing argument in favour of the dark side. Meanwhile Palpatine's machinations are made into a flawless masterplan, everything that happens in the story is completely under his control. See what I mean by hard to describe? I ended up not describing it and talking about something else entirely. How about this - there's a huge twist just a few chapters in that he's added to the story. I won't spoil it, but basically the whole setup of what's even going on at the start of the film... gah, no, I can't think of a way to hint at it without making it super-obvious. Because it is super-obvious, it's just that the film doesn't seem to know that. Essentially, whenever there's something that didn't make sense in the film, this guy not only makes it make sense, he makes it the driving force of the narrative. It's amazing. If you have to, find it in a bookshop, and just stand there and read up to the point of Dooku's death. By then, you'll know what I'm talking about. I mean, I'm probably going overboard here, it is just Revenge of the Sith as a book, but in simpler terms I'd say that reading it makes you feel like the movie is an adaptation of the book that missed the point, rather than the other way round. If Sith had been a good book by a good author all along, instead of... yeah, you know. Edit - Ok, I figured out what I can say. We find out why Palpatine has Dooku on board in the first place. Not just who Dooku is, but what good he is to Palpatine. Why is he even there? So far the best answer we have is "Because Christopher Lee agreed to be in the films." Well not only does Stover give us an explanation, but it's like a punchline, too. It's a kick to the head, and if you let yourself get really into the book like I let myself get really into it, you're going to gasp when that whole scene comes together. Buml0r fucked around with this message at 21:33 on Sep 27, 2011 |
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2011 19:20
|
|
|
So can those with the Blu Ray confirm that Obi-Wans Blue Parrot Nightclub yell to scare away the sand people is for real?
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2011 20:16
|
|
|
Ringo Star Get posted:So can those with the Blu Ray confirm that Obi-Wans Blue Parrot Nightclub yell to scare away the sand people is for real? Literally watching ANH bluray right now, wait 2 minutes for confirm Luke looking for R2
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2011 20:16
|
|
|
Oh God. Its weird... Sounds like OOOOHHHH then some weird bubbly laser sound. Yeah its in bluray. How loving hard is it to make a dragon roar?
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2011 20:19
|
|
|
Goddamnit Jorge.
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2011 20:21
|
|
|
Ringo Star Get posted:Goddamnit Jorge. The first half of the yell is fine, but then it gets...wtf. Edit: well you can hear it on youtube I guess. In 5.1 it was just different and worse then the youtube I saw weeks ago. Edie 2: Just saw the Han shoots same time. It looks a lot better but his head still does the weird dodge in 1 frame thing...looks bad. Bombadilillo fucked around with this message at 20:47 on Sep 27, 2011 |
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2011 20:24
|
|
|
Bombadilillo posted:The first half of the yell is fine, but then it gets...wtf. This is why I think Lucas is just trolling us now. The fact that Greedo shot first wasn't really what bothered us. It's the fact that he shot at all that annoyed us. But of course the t-shirt said Han shot first so he made this change just to gently caress with us. Same with the Noooooo. He knows we hated the nooooo in Sith, so he inserted it into Jedi. Just like the way he inserted Jar Jar into Jedi even though he knows a lot of people hated him.
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2011 20:50
|
|
|
Gianthogweed posted:This is why I think Lucas is just trolling us now. The fact that Greedo shot first wasn't really what bothered us. It's the fact that he shot at all that annoyed us. But of course the t-shirt said Han shot first so he made this change just to gently caress with us. Same with the Noooooo. He knows we hated the nooooo in Sith, so he inserted it into Jedi. Just like the way he inserted Jar Jar into Jedi even though he knows a lot of people hated him. I was actually just thinking. Or rather realizing this too. The Han shoots first is inaccurate. I want a Greddo DOESN'T shoot. Shirt. Im not looking forward to the dance number in Jedi. Howevr it is interesting to note that in the made in the 80's making of rotj documentary they say lucas was obsessed with the dance group. A rare case of what he actually wanted all along?
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2011 20:58
|
|
|
This has me laughing like an absolute retard.
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2011 20:58
|
|
|
Timby posted:This has me laughing like an absolute retard. It works 100x better there The NoooooooooooOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooo would make a better dragon cal as well.
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2011 21:03
|
|
|
Buml0r posted:Well, it's been a while (I last read it in about 2007), but it's a sort of combination of all of the above. On the more subtle level, the actual dialogue is almost always different to what's in the film, with pithy one-liners being replaced by much longer discussions. I don't remember the book having the infamous "from my point of view, the Jedi are evil," for example, but it's more than that. All the dialogue is different, and it's all better. One of the most memorable things about the book, which I haven't read since maybe 2006, is just how much of it is spent inside the heads of the characters. Almost all of the action really, is cut out; the entire Kashyyk section is just mentioned offhand. The Dooku section, for example, is like 96% Dooku's thoughts and then a brief, violent action sequence. It's just...christ, it's brilliant. Another great bit early on is how Stover makes out Anakin and Obi-wan to basically be the face of the Republic. They're on every propaganda poster and news broadcast. They play a role that we don't have in modern war.
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2011 21:42
|
|
|
Rochallor posted:One of the most memorable things about the book, which I haven't read since maybe 2006, is just how much of it is spent inside the heads of the characters. Almost all of the action really, is cut out; the entire Kashyyk section is just mentioned offhand. The Dooku section, for example, is like 96% Dooku's thoughts and then a brief, violent action sequence. It's just...christ, it's brilliant. I personally loved the detail where Stover talked about how every child's imagining of a fight between Obi-Wan and Anakin always ended without result because there was no chance in hell that they would ever fight.
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2011 21:48
|
|
|
Rochallor posted:The Dooku section, for example, is like 96% Dooku's thoughts and then a brief, violent action sequence. It's just...christ, it's brilliant. It's a tribute to just how good it is that Stover had me empathizing with Dooku, a character that I thought was worthless in the movies. The moment when he has the realization that he's been screwed I could almost feel the sinking sensation in my gut.
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2011 23:20
|
|
|
I am interested in reading that. Because both the PT villians, Maul and Dooku and Grievous (did he have a drath title?) were not fleshed out in the least, they were evil so the did bad things. Its like George decided nobody would care about them because they knew they would die by the end so he didn't bother to build them with back stories or anything. I must be wrong about that though because if that's the case, why bother doing the PT at all as we all know how it ends really.
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2011 23:30
|
|
|
Bombadilillo posted:I am interested in reading that. Because both the PT villians, Maul and Dooku and Grievous (did he have a drath title?) were not fleshed out in the least, they were evil so the did bad things. This is a big problem I have with the Clone Wars show as well, and why I don't understand why so many people defend it as having such great writing and plots. The villains are all balls-to-the-wall evil who do totally evil things even when it's way beyond their best interests, just because they're evil. And they all have incompetent droid underlings who do stupid things for comic relief. And the heroes are all totally heroic, and the villains are always defeated after a flashy lightsaber fight with a few stock snippy catchphrases from Ashoka. And this is the show that everyone says is a return to the feeling of the OT era?
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2011 23:53
|
|
|
Chairman Capone posted:This is a big problem I have with the Clone Wars show as well, and why I don't understand why so many people defend it as having such great writing and plots. The villains are all balls-to-the-wall evil who do totally evil things even when it's way beyond their best interests, just because they're evil. And they all have incompetent droid underlings who do stupid things for comic relief. And the heroes are all totally heroic, and the villains are always defeated after a flashy lightsaber fight with a few stock snippy catchphrases from Ashoka. And this is the show that everyone says is a return to the feeling of the OT era? To be fair AHN is supposed to be a very light thrill ride with black evil and white good. Little moral questions, just a fun fantasy romp. But even in that Obi-Wan got killed off because Lucas didn't want him standing around doing nothing for the last 15 minutes.
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2011 00:05
|
|
|
Rochallor posted:One of the most memorable things about the book, which I haven't read since maybe 2006, is just how much of it is spent inside the heads of the characters. Almost all of the action really, is cut out; the entire Kashyyk section is just mentioned offhand. The Dooku section, for example, is like 96% Dooku's thoughts and then a brief, violent action sequence. It's just...christ, it's brilliant. The fight with Dooku is just amazing, and it's like a manifesto of everything the book is going to be. Instead of the obligatory "and then they JUMPED and he SWUNG his lightsaber and they CLASHED and JUMPED and they were FIGHTING," like you get in presumably most Star Wars books, he doesn't bother with any of that. Instead, he made the fight into a fight of intellects working giant shapes in the Force to try and see into and around one another, with the actual lightsaber fight going on in the background. The lightsabers are fighting, yeah, but they're just a physical manifestation of what's REALLY going on. And then when he focuses on the swordfighting, it's all about these grand "forms" of Jedi battle and how the ones they pick reflect what their personalities are. And then it turns out that the whole time... ...it's hard to talk about this book without spoiling parts 
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2011 00:07
|
|
|
Bombadilillo posted:To be fair AHN is supposed to be a very light thrill ride with black evil and white good. Little moral questions, just a fun fantasy romp. But even in that Obi-Wan got killed off because Lucas didn't want him standing around doing nothing for the last 15 minutes. Just wait until the Blu-Ray, 40th Anniversary Special Edition. Lucas will finally be able to create his True Vision of Obi-Wan in a deep battle meditation and assisting the rebels at the battle of Yavin. It'll be done with a CGI Obi-Wan in front of a CGI screen on a CGI set inside of a computer built into Lucas's rear end in a top hat.
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2011 00:09
|
|
|
Bombadilillo posted:I am interested in reading that. Because both the PT villians, Maul and Dooku and Grievous (did he have a drath title?) were not fleshed out in the least, they were evil so the did bad things. You could argue that Vader had very little backstory in ANH, and was still pretty badass. Of course, he stayed on as the antagonist through all three movies and gradually GOT a backstory and character arc. He would have been less memorable if he'd just died at the end of ANH and there was a new bad guy (also with no backstory) for each movie. Being badass only gets you so far.
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2011 00:25
|
|
|
Powered Descent posted:You could argue that Vader had very little backstory in ANH, and was still pretty badass. Of course, he stayed on as the antagonist through all three movies and gradually GOT a backstory and character arc. He would have been less memorable if he'd just died at the end of ANH and there was a new bad guy (also with no backstory) for each movie. Being badass only gets you so far. I think you hit it exactly there. Vader has 9 minutes of screen time in ANH. Early scripts had Luke board the death star, plant a bomb then duel and kill Vader. He would have been a much less memorable villain then. Like Darth Maul. Maul was pretty badass. Bombadilillo fucked around with this message at 00:57 on Sep 28, 2011 |
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2011 00:54
|
|
|
Ringo Star Get posted:So can those with the Blu Ray confirm that Obi-Wans Blue Parrot Nightclub yell to scare away the sand people is for real? How did I forget to mention that. I literally thought my receiver was glitching out or something, but no, that is apparently what Jorge envisions a krayt dragon sounding like. Also man, ANH did not age well compared to ESB/ROTJ. Different film stock, or did they change SFX methods between the films? e: I also found a copy of the "new" OT DVD set that comes with the originals on bonus discs. Looking forward to checking it out! I took a brief skip ahead to Cloud City and it did look pretty good then even, but I don't mind the CGI addition to Cloud City at all. Also the BluRays do a really good job of showing the flaws in paint and scuffs on Vader's helmet. It looked like someone just half-assed a coat of primer on it at the beginning of ANH.
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2011 01:01
|
|
|
movax posted:How did I forget to mention that. I literally thought my receiver was glitching out or something, but no, that is apparently what Jorge envisions a krayt dragon sounding like. I dont know but you are right. The lasers bolts on screen look very cheese and like they "float above" the scene. I think all the films were in different states of absolutly destroyed when they brought them out to restore. http://secrethistoryofstarwars.com/savingstarwars.html Good article for how bad they were. Edit: Can someone explain to me the Trade Federations motivation in TPM? All I got from rewatching was they were "taxed" so invasion? I dont get it.
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2011 01:05
|
|
|
Chairman Capone posted:This is a big problem I have with the Clone Wars show as well, and why I don't understand why so many people defend it as having such great writing and plots. The villains are all balls-to-the-wall evil who do totally evil things even when it's way beyond their best interests, just because they're evil. And they all have incompetent droid underlings who do stupid things for comic relief. And the heroes are all totally heroic, and the villains are always defeated after a flashy lightsaber fight with a few stock snippy catchphrases from Ashoka. And this is the show that everyone says is a return to the feeling of the OT era? I feel the same way. I guess people were on vacation during the Jar Jar episode or the crossdressing 3P0 bit
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2011 02:03
|
|
|
I've seen a couple of snippets from Jar Jar episodes and it seemed to me like everyone loving hated him in a way they didn't in the movies. Like, they acknowledge that he's a horrible, useless liability in just about every situation.
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2011 02:08
|
|
|
Phylodox posted:I've seen a couple of snippets from Jar Jar episodes and it seemed to me like everyone loving hated him in a way they didn't in the movies. Like, they acknowledge that he's a horrible, useless liability in just about every situation. Then he saves the loving day
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2011 02:32
|
|
|
Buml0r posted:The fight with Dooku is just amazing, and it's like a manifesto of everything the book is going to be. Instead of the obligatory "and then they JUMPED and he SWUNG his lightsaber and they CLASHED and JUMPED and they were FIGHTING," like you get in presumably most Star Wars books, he doesn't bother with any of that. Instead, he made the fight into a fight of intellects working giant shapes in the Force to try and see into and around one another, with the actual lightsaber fight going on in the background. The lightsabers are fighting, yeah, but they're just a physical manifestation of what's REALLY going on. How about an excerpt? Here's Dooku's death:   
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2011 03:26
|
|
|
Bombadilillo posted:Edit: Can someone explain to me the Trade Federations motivation in TPM? All I got from rewatching was they were "taxed" so invasion? I dont get it. Cloak of Deception goes into a lot of backstory for it, in a really brilliant and in-depth way. Outwardly the reason is a way to protest the Republic deciding to tax the Outer Rim NAFTA zone; they choose Naboo because Palpatine is the one to propose the taxation to the Senate so they decide to go after his home planet. Behind the scenes, however, Nute Gunray and the Neimoidians were working with Palpatine/Sidious for a while earlier. The Trade Federation was originally led by a corporate board; at a conference with the Republic to negotiate a tax compromise, the board members are all assassinated (it's implied that Tarkin is the one to carry it out) which allows Gunray to rise to the TF leadership. So Gunray authorizes the invasion in return for getting the position of power he wanted, while the murder of the board of directors gives him the PR reasoning to abandon negotiations and invade.
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2011 03:50
|
|
|
Chairman Capone posted:Cloak of Deception goes into a lot of backstory for it, in a really brilliant and in-depth way. Outwardly the reason is a way to protest the Republic deciding to tax the Outer Rim NAFTA zone; they choose Naboo because Palpatine is the one to propose the taxation to the Senate so they decide to go after his home planet. That makes a little more sense but I am still lost. I get the behind the scenes. But If they are trying to "protest" they do it by invading a planet? If the Republic has the power to tax them surely it has the power to mess them up if they take over a whole planet!!! Palp doesnt care because hes going to use this, but what is Gunray thinking? Is it just "propose laws against us and we enslave your people warning" Its funny that Amadalas posse gets to the Senate with no "proof" I bet they were all "drat if we only took a holovid while we were getting the hell out of there!" Edit: Thank you for the explanation! Bombadilillo fucked around with this message at 04:03 on Sep 28, 2011 |
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2011 04:00
|
|
|
NGL posted:How about an excerpt? Here's Dooku's death: Keeping in mind Lucas spends all of 5 seconds on this scene and there's no indication at all in the film itself that he knew what he was doing with it.
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2011 05:26
|
|
|
NGL posted:How about an excerpt? Here's Dooku's death: man. this would have been a pretty good movie.
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2011 05:31
|
|
|
I just finished the RotS novel myself. That was great. I liked the part where they go arrest Palpatine. "You're a sith!" "So what if I am, my beliefs are my own. Besides, there are laws against persecution like this!" 
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2011 06:06
|
|
|
Timby posted:This has me laughing like an absolute retard. This one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCZrdNBBxMA&feature=related is better.
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2011 06:42
|
|
|
Mister Roboto posted:This one: I have not laughed this hard in a while, thank you.
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2011 07:22
|
|
|
NGL posted:How about an excerpt? Here's Dooku's death: Yep, that's it!  Warning to those who haven't read the book yet: this excerpt is pretty cool, but it does contain the spoiler I was talking about, which is nothing but a throwaway sentence if you read it without the big build-up of the preceding chapters.Essentially it's like watching the OT if you already know he's Luke's dad going in. It's still good, but the twist is a bit "yeah, and?" The first page of the three are spoiler-free though, knock yourselves out.
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2011 08:01
|
|
|
I love the ROTS novel for how in depth they got with Obi-Wan and his psyche. Ewan McGregor was far and away my favorite part of the PT, but he really did get the short shrift in the character development area. The novel really made up for that.
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2011 16:22
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 30, 2024 11:53 |
|
|
I think the most heart breaking thing about the prequal movies is that Ewan McGregor is the perfect Obi-Wan with look and manner but acts and speaks utter gibberish because of Lucas and his terrible directing. Seriously, in the hands of a good writer and director with a real set Obi-Wan could have stolen the loving show.
|
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2011 16:28
|
|
