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HORSEPORN posted:People like chen/ultradavid/skisonic/etc are good announcers Took this quote out of context but I honestly thought Skisonic was the token IGN guy when they had him on the mic for SF4 back in 2009 :I Chen and Ultradavid are harmless white noise but the community needs someone who's insightful, funny and easy to listen to, someone needs to con Capcom into shipping Seth Killian to every major or go back in time and reprogram Day9 Sade posted:More people buying boring fighting games means more incentive for developers to keep making and supporting them I added a word to make this statement seem more true to me 
Mio Bison fucked around with this message at 08:05 on Oct 22, 2011 |
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Oct 22, 2011 08:02
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Commentary needs to be entertaining, but it also needs to inform people not so familiar with the game about what is actually going on. My friends that don't play fighting games (or only play them every once in awhile) still enjoy watching EVO and other major tournaments. MvC3 is an easy game to watch and enjoy because there are so many iconic characters (on both sides) beating the everloving poo poo out of each other, with tons of beams and explosions on the screen. But that poses another problem, which is its hard to follow. If you take someone who has never played a MvC game in their life and have them watch a match, they won't know what the hell is going on. For an example, one time my friend, who just had a very brief understanding of fighting games but was interested in watching me play, was watching me play Blanka in SSF4. He watched me hit confirm a cr.lk, cr.lk, s.lp into Super, and asked "Wow, that did a lot of damage, how come you don't do that every time?" He wasn't aware that I needed a full meter to do the Super combo. I think with something like Marvel, you DO need someone to explain why even though Dormammu can shoot fire everywhere there are certain times when he can and cannot do it. I'm not saying that being the fg commentary equivalent of John Madden is a good thing, but pointing out why players/characters are doing things help. If anything, I like commentary combos like SKill and Skisonic, because you have one guy that is incredibly knowledgeable about the game, and the other guy, while also very knowledgeable, is more there to get the viewers hyped up. One of the reasons Starcraft 2 has taken off so well as spectator sport is that the commentators do such a good job of explaining what is going on, so even people like me, dumb peons that don't know anything about Starcraft, can enjoy watching it.
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Oct 22, 2011 08:11
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This is definitely the kind of commentary that mixes the best of both worlds: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itcT5uCxXY8&feature=relmfu
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Oct 22, 2011 08:12
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I think HORSEPORN said a lot of things I agree with, as a guy who really isn't a part of the FG community and also as a live production guy. I don't really play with anyone else, I enjoy winding down for an hour after work in training or mission mode, but I don't really see myself ever competing in a tournament. I could see myself attending one to spectate maybe but quite frankly I enjoy watching pro video gaming partly because I can watch it on my terms, skipping downtime on archived streams or watching multiple streams at once while chainsmoking and surfing the web in my apartment.HORSEPORN posted:-Better production on streams. The streamers themselves are excellent but internet quality at the venue needs to be first priority now, not an afterthough. I will say this about the production on streams: right now it's an adequate proof of concept and it is very, very good for the shoestring budgets most tournaments have. However, if real production money ever makes its way to fighting game streams you will look back and the stuff today will seem obviously low budget and amateur. Devastation was the best I've seen so far, it seemed like you got to watch more than twice as many matches just by eliminating most of the button checks. At an event that size, or especially EVO, there needs to be a much more significant level of production. Devastation achieved that by streaming from 2 stations back and forth (it seemed like) and that's something more tournaments should definitely try to do. What should be happening at something like EVO is there needs to be a station in each set of 4 or 8 stations that gets piped into the switcher at the control/commentator booth. Get each individual ref or organizer involved in "producing" by handpicking interesting matches from what they see around them to play on that station and potentially get put on-stream. When there are dozens of matches going on at any given time, there is no reason for there to ever be menu screens, unwanted dead air or button checks. There's no reason anyone should watch the stream for 2 days straight and only see 1 match of their favorite pro in their favorite game. A producer needs to be choosing from a half-dozen or dozen options, picking the most interesting match at any given moment with at least names and scores (a live bracket sure would be nice too) to feed to the commentators and the stream. Also, I think a way commentating can be drastically improved is isolate them more. Commentators shouldn't be shouting to the players to find out who they are or randomly interacting with anyone who wants to stop by. They definitely should not have access to the stream chat, that is extremely annoying (and alienating to someone who doesn't live and breathe fighting games). A lot of the temptation to do stuff like this would be removed if there were constantly matches being put in front of them from all over the room. I'm not saying it's realistic to expect all streams to adopt setups like that, but it surprises me that with how entertaining fighting games and the personalities in the community are, there aren't any tournaments that have drawn that level of production. The players and action are way more entertaining to someone casually watching than any live broadcast of an RTS or FPS that relies on observers just to see what's happening. Why don't they ever throw to a guy on a wireless mic in the hype crowd? ChristsDickWorship fucked around with this message at 08:25 on Oct 22, 2011 |
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Oct 22, 2011 08:22
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UltraDavid is 100x better than Joe Buck in Football. Take that as you will.
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Oct 22, 2011 08:24
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HORSEPORN posted:-Players need to be more open to the community. Generally the top players are excellent about this but the mid-level players can be a pain to deal with because of their little man syndrome. I wouldn't call the Third Strike and SSF4 communities very friendly, but that's just me. For some reason, Third Strike bring the elitist, sperg prick inside most people. Some twits will crucify you if you want to learn how to use a character like Yun whether it's 3S or God forbid AE Schmendrick fucked around with this message at 09:05 on Oct 22, 2011 |
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Oct 22, 2011 09:02
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Chris Hu is p4p #1 commentator
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Oct 22, 2011 09:04
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Equilibrium posted:Chris Hu is p4p #1 commentator https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvOMsUAFZEU this is the kind of quality commentary we need to grow the community.
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Oct 22, 2011 09:11
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It's funny that Devastation is brought up as an example of quality streaming given it is, by many accounts, the worst-run major going. Almost as if focusing on delivering a quality spectator experience is coterminous with a lovely attitude towards the community who actually shows up to play... 
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Oct 22, 2011 09:11
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Gamest Mook posted:I liked it but I wouldn't complain if the game was sped up some more. It's not going to happen though. They already sped it up 10% based on fan feedback. I guess if more people talk about it they might change it even more. I doubt it'll hit MvC2 levels though
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Oct 22, 2011 09:33
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Gamest Mook posted:It's funny that Devastation is brought up as an example of quality streaming given it is, by many accounts, the worst-run major going. Almost as if focusing on delivering a quality spectator experience is coterminous with a lovely attitude towards the community who actually shows up to play... The only bad thing you can say about Devastation was the format of several mini-tournaments with 1st and 2nd going to the main tournament and resetting their losses, which has nothing to do with how the stream station was setup.
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Oct 22, 2011 10:13
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Bebopaloobop posted:The only bad thing you can say about Devastation was the format of several mini-tournaments with 1st and 2nd going to the main tournament and resetting their losses, which has nothing to do with how the stream station was setup. Nope. Devastation had a ton of problems. It didn't have a very large and diverse playerbase (probably because a lot of people didn't want to travel to Arizona the week before SB), all the tournaments ran really late/slowly, things were generally disorganized, the people running pools failed to get interesting marquee matchups for the stream a lot of the time and (from what I've heard) they rented a venue far too large for the amount of people they actually got. e: And honestly, as much as Devastation had higher stream quality/production values/more of a focus on streaming or w/e, I don't think a single person (at the tournament or at home watching the stream) would say Devastation was even close to as enjoyable as Season's Beating's this year. Brett824 fucked around with this message at 11:33 on Oct 22, 2011 |
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Oct 22, 2011 11:30
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Zand posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvOMsUAFZEU Don't forget Jaha. This dude is too funny on stream. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwcjWYocYmY
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Oct 22, 2011 12:08
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I also think that the buy in on a lot of these tournaments needs to be raised. If you're spending hundreds of dollars on a flight and hotel room to go to a tournament, I think that it should be for more than a $10 tournament. Who wouldn't pay a $50 buy in for a major? The only people I can think of are casual local players who would be out early anyway, and I think the higher fee would make up for the lack of pot monsters. Heck, EVO is a $70 venue fee for a $10 tournament, if they raise that to $20 they double the prize pool, because it wouldn't affect entries at all. Maybe go even further, I wouldn't mind seeing a $500 buy in "Masters" event at EVO alongside the regular tournament, and it would attract a lot of viewers because it would feature constant high level matches.
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Oct 22, 2011 12:36
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Season's Beatings Velocity tried that, and I would honestly be more for having a higher-buy in for majors. I can't imagine why the prize pool at an international tournament should be based off the same per-player proportion as a weekend scuffle at Hooter's.
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Oct 22, 2011 12:57
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I'm not really convinced the stakes would feel that much higher, from a viewer's perspective, if tournament structures remained the same but buy-ins doubled (or tripled or whatever). Things like the Clock vs Neo fight were HUGE not just because of the money on the line, but because of the explosive commentary and the sheer length of the set. Seeing a bunch of best of 3 matches followed by a best of 5 just doesn't feel the same; rarely do they follow a single player through their entire bracket, so if one of your favorites gets taken out in a match you missed it just feels cheap. That isn't to say every tournament needs to be FT15 (please god no), just that I don't think increasing the buy in will really help from a viewer's perspective unless the jump is significant, like to $100 or so.
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Oct 22, 2011 18:17
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Mio Bison posted:Took this quote out of context but I honestly thought Skisonic was the token IGN guy when they had him on the mic for SF4 back in 2009 :I I think Ryan Hunter would be good on commentary. He knows a lot about both MVC3 and AE, is fairly enthusiastic, and I don't think he's hard to listen to at all. That said, he tends to prattle on about frames just a little too much and usually thinks he knows what every player is going for in every situation. Him and Seth Killian commentated for a good while at EVO and I think they were the best actual commentary duo there.
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Oct 22, 2011 18:22
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Schmendrick posted:I wouldn't call the Third Strike and SSF4 communities very friendly, but that's just me. For some reason, Third Strike bring the elitist, sperg prick inside most people. Some twits will crucify you if you want to learn how to use a character like Yun whether it's 3S or God forbid AE Have you ever actually met these people in person though? The communities for these games online and in person could (in general) not be more different. Konstantin posted:Who wouldn't pay a $50 buy in for a major? A LOT of people. I don't think 10 is the right amount, in fact, I think 20 is the sweet spot, but 50 is going to lose a poo poo ton of players. rivals fucked around with this message at 18:31 on Oct 22, 2011 |
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Oct 22, 2011 18:29
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I just suggested to the other CEO staff that we raise the pot fee to 20, and they shat-posted all over me and brushed it off. Then Jebailey's like "I didn't read but I don't want to scare anybody away so no" I loving hate the Orlando Fighting Game Community.
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Oct 22, 2011 18:34
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Live coverage of fighting games is a serious challenge, primarily because the games themselves are faster than is preferable for detailed commentary. Getting everything to work perfectly when live and on the air is going to be tough, especially when there's not any money in it to grease the wheels. It seems like a lot of players already watch the streams after the fact rather than tuning in live; perhaps the focus should shift toward making highlight reels where the commentary can be edited and tuned so that it says exactly what it needs to say and has all the time it needs to say it.
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Oct 22, 2011 19:29
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Buy-ins don't need to be raised as of yet because a lot of fighting gamers are still in college/poor as heck. What tournament organizers need to do is increase efficiency of the brackets and better marketing. A good example of an efficient tournament from my experience are the box arena and uci guys. They have small details that communicate matches to the players quickly and clearly, as well as a no-nonsense approach to casuals during tournament. A lot of poorly run tournaments, and I won't name any names because I think they're trying their hardest, would appeal to more players if they didn't run until 1AM or take a whole day to get to that point. If you increase the pot while still keeping the tournament running smoothly, you can keep keep buy-ins low.
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Oct 22, 2011 19:48
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I really don't like this direction. Unless you are one of these guys like Gootecks or Spooky who are making money, why do you want "the community" to expand beyond "the players?" The old argument used to be, "Oh, so there would be bigger pots and so that players could go to more tournaments," i.e. it was just a way to do a little more for the players. But I don't hear any of that anymore- just a bunch of people saying we should add more capitalism into our ridiculous little hobby. Also, it is a little obnoxious for us to try to groom superstars out of our players when we are so far behind Japan.
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Oct 22, 2011 19:54
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nm
Zand fucked around with this message at 21:55 on Oct 22, 2011 |
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Oct 22, 2011 20:20
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rivals posted:Have you ever actually met these people in person though? The communities for these games online and in person could (in general) not be more different. Yea, and some of them can be absolutely annoying to be around. I stopped playing AE with some guy at the last fight club because he kept being whiny and smug whether or not I beat him. The same place had a 3S tournament, and there was a guy who was just a cocky jerk for beating people with Ken. Hell, even Gootecks turns into a prick his 3S videos (though to be fair, I don't blame him with his AE losses). You're gonna get hated on if you use Yun in AE. Just look at Devastation when Marn picked him (unless I mixed up the last tourney he was in when he switched to Yun from Dudley). v v v It was in small comic shop. He gets a little smug in his 3S videos when he rolls with Urien. Schmendrick fucked around with this message at 00:08 on Oct 23, 2011 |
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Oct 22, 2011 22:42
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Schmendrick posted:Hell, even Gootecks turns into a prick his 3S videos (though to be fair, I don't blame him with his AE losses). What? I've watched all the 3S stuff and he's never been a prick. I think you might just be extrapolating way too much stuff from people's facials expressions or something. 3rd Strike prob makes some people more salty I guess but that's far more likely to be down to the people playing. Also a super crowded capcom fight club prob isn't a good place for meeting regular tournament going people if that's where you were at.
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Oct 22, 2011 23:14
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Schmendrick posted:You're gonna get hated on if you use Yun in AE. Just look at Devastation when Marn picked him (unless I mixed up the last tourney he was in when he switched to Yun from Dudley). This is the sad truth, Yun is softbanned in America because we're more afraid of being seen as tier whores than we are of losing
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Oct 22, 2011 23:59
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Gamest Mook posted:It's funny that Devastation is brought up as an example of quality streaming given it is, by many accounts, the worst-run major going. Almost as if focusing on delivering a quality spectator experience is coterminous with a lovely attitude towards the community who actually shows up to play... I don't really understand the mysticism that seems to surround things like smoothing the rough edges of the scene, whether that means creating a better experience for the participant, the spectator, or both. Maybe people are just afraid of change, I don't know.
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Oct 23, 2011 00:16
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EDIT- BE NICE
40 OZ fucked around with this message at 01:56 on Oct 23, 2011 |
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Oct 23, 2011 01:19
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I'd like to get a serious discussion going as to the purpose of difficult inputs. This has been brought up a few times before (finger puzzles!) but typically it takes the form of a new player being frustrated with the inputs and the veteran players tell him to deal with it. I think there is more here worth discussing. Every aspect of the games we play has been broken down and distilled into words and concepts, if difficult inputs add to the game in some way then how they do so can be similarly distilled; if they are nothing more than tradition at this point then the community needs to start discussing that and become more open to games that are more accessible. I want to be perfectly clear here, I think reflexes and timing are very important parts of the gameplay for obvious reasons and I don't think that should change. The inputs I have a problem with are tight links, FADC's, really anything that can be described by the following 2 points: -No one can do it reliably without a lot of practice. -Everyone can do it reliably with a lot of practice. These inputs simply require muscle memory, the building of which requires you to grind away in training mode for hours on end until you can do it effortlessly. Now, putting in the time to gain this muscle memory will not make you a pro player by itself, there is a ceiling on how good it will make you and it must be used in conjunction with reflexes, timing, strategy, and game-knowledge. At the highest levels of play it almost vanishes, each player has reached this ceiling and so the winner is determined by all of the other involved skills. If at the highest levels of play the ability to perform these difficult inputs becomes moot anyway, why not cut them out entirely? Doing this removes a significant barrier to entry into the competitive community and would put more emphasis on strategy and reflexes at lower levels of play.
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Oct 23, 2011 21:29
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It isn't that simple. poo poo that is very difficult to do isn't usually directed created. You would have to basically release a new patch every 2 weeks to stop people from pushing the game to it's limits. Also, have you been paying attention to Wolverine from MvC3? Let's ignore the spergy analysis, how does it make you ~feel~ when you see a guy win with no effort? Alternatively, have you ever seen a combo video, or someone like Clockwork or MarlinPie do a really cool and risky combo? Why do you hate fun  Have you ever practiced a combo for a week or two and finally "got it?" Do you not enjoy that, on some level? We like playing these games because we like getting better at something and then competing with those skills. Fenn the Fool! posted:Doing this removes a significant barrier to entry into the competitive community and would put more emphasis on strategy and reflexes at lower levels of play. Street Fighter is not chess. I promise you the game is not all that strategically interesting if you completely remove execution, even at the highest level. I mean it's not rock paper scissors but I don't know anyone who would play a game like you are describing competitively. (edit- Sorry, I've heard there are in fact DOA tournaments) Starcraft people have to constantly argue this point, and I guess we are here now, too. Part of the game is "deciding what to do" and the other part is "getting your character to do it." You can be bad at one of these and still do well for yourself, generally. Fenn the Fool! posted:At the highest levels of play it almost vanishes, each player has reached this ceiling and so the winner is determined by all of the other involved skills. If at the highest levels of play the ability to perform these difficult inputs becomes moot anyway, why not cut them out entirely? Execution surely is not moot at the highest levels of play. And there are top players who don't have great execution, too. (Arturo Sanchez) There isn't really significant barriers to play if you don't have good execution or much time to practice tough combos. You just might not be able to play that exact character that you want to. I don't play Viper because I will never be able to execute her stuff. I don't play Super Skrull or Chun-Li in MvC3 because sometimes i get mashy and do HHS/lightning legs on accident. That's okay! For some other guy, these characters might be a perfect fit! Have you ever seen Noah play? He plays a very simple, very effective style in a current game, and seems to be just fine with competitive play. He just doesn't choose C. Viper or Zero. 40 OZ fucked around with this message at 22:11 on Oct 23, 2011 |
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Oct 23, 2011 21:41
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40 OZ posted:It isn't that simple. poo poo that is very difficult to do isn't usually directed created. You would have to basically release a new patch every 2 weeks to stop people from pushing the game to it's limits. 40 OZ posted:Alternatively, have you ever seen a combo video, or someone like Clockwork or MarlinPie do a really cool and risky combo? Why do you hate fun
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Oct 23, 2011 22:09
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Fenn the Fool! posted:I have some significant disagreements with you here. The game systems are very well understood, a little creativity and we can easily make these inputs simpler without changing what combos are physically possible. I imagine some fringe cases would still exist, stuff like "X can punish Y but only in a 1 frame window", but even still we've moved the difficult inputs out of everything but the very top most echelons of play. I'm asking this naively- who is being alienated? I think 90% of people could win a tournament match with M. Bison/Balrog in SSF4, or Wolverine/Wesker/Hulk/Sentinel (any of these characters, I'm sure there are more) in MvC3. I just don't know anyone who had played enough to delve into the strategy who cannot physically execute any of these characters basic gameplay, in a way that could be "fixed". I'm not being  , out of these characters, what would you dumb down if you wanted to?
40 OZ fucked around with this message at 22:19 on Oct 23, 2011 |
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Oct 23, 2011 22:17
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Fenn the Fool! posted:These are some good points, all of this is really cool. Still, we have to ask the question: is this worth alienating players with a significant barrier to entry?
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Oct 23, 2011 22:23
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I guess I have two separate points here. New players are alienated because, even if they have a lot of experience playing every other kind of game under the sun fighting games have a lot of highly technical bits unique to them. Before a new player can begin to learn what to do when they have to put in quite a bit of time to figure out simply how to do things. Given we can make this simpler, why wouldn't we? Secondly, high level play requires you grind muscle memory. I think this is bad because I don't find it to be fun and I don't have a respect for it like I do for reaction time, strategy, or reading. Why wouldn't the game be better as a whole if this wasn't a prerequisite to serious competitive play? As to what I would personally change, fixing the first problem isn't really feasible without removing a number of iconic game mechanics; Z-inputs and double quarter circles for example are difficult for new players to perform, especially on a pad. The community seemed pretty open to MK's much more forgiving systems here, so I suppose that's a step in the right direction. Fixing the second problem is a bit simpler, at least in SF4, I really don't know enough about Marvel to comment there. Simply by making any links input one frame too early (on the last frame of an attack's recovery) cause the attack to start on the first available frame would increase the window of all links by 1, making a 2 frame link the smallest possible. Then all we really need is a shortcut for FADC's, having a double-tap on mp+mk give you an automatic focus and then dash would work well here (giving a backdash if you're holding back of course). Zand posted:Yes, because typically the people that whine about those barriers can only serve to negatively impact the game as a whole. In this new age of game devs patching games according to community whining (see capcom w/ mvc3 re: a sentinel health, or riot w/ league of legends) it is important that weinerbaby players never make it out the door. They should quit playing the games before they ever get the thought in their head that they have a voice worth listening to. This sounds harsh but it is the reality of the situation. I sincerely hope that fighting games remain difficult to approach so that people who are unable to grasp the simple combo systems of most modern fighters never, ever get the idea that they have a clue what constitutes balance in a fighting game. As it is, the more recently made a game is, the more inane, horrible people you have to listen to bitch and moan about things that have literally no bearing on competitive play. And as of late, these people are actually affecting game balance when devs listen and change things to appease them. I believe there is a similar phenomenon in SC2, where the APM requirement is drastically reduced, and more people think they are good and therefore their opinion matters. But in reality, these people are not good, and their opinions barely matter. Fenn the Fool! fucked around with this message at 23:11 on Oct 23, 2011 |
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Oct 23, 2011 23:09
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Having a switch while streaming so you have multiple Tvs hooked up normally 2-3 is enough, and having the commentators across the room from the people playing the stream match IS A REALLY GOOD THING, that more people should do. I'm pretty happy that one of the guys that sometimes streams locally does this it is pretty awesome. Most important thing is ending tournaments early and quick, everything I have been to in NC lately ended before 9pm, and normally pretty much everything was done by 6-7 and it was just a few side games and them running though winners/losers/grand finals.
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Oct 23, 2011 23:12
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Fenn, there's no point arguing with fighting game fans, and no explaining to them that the poo poo they insist on in games is the exact reason that the genre of competitive games that is by far the most inherently watchable and marketable has the smallest, weakest scene and will remain that way. It's unfortunate, but it's not going to change any time in the near future. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Oct 23, 2011 23:20
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ShinsoBEAM! posted:Having a switch while streaming so you have multiple Tvs hooked up normally 2-3 is enough, and having the commentators across the room from the people playing the stream match IS A REALLY GOOD THING, that more people should do. I'm pretty happy that one of the guys that sometimes streams locally does this it is pretty awesome. 
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Oct 23, 2011 23:22
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Fenn the Fool! posted:Their opinions do matter because the devs listen to them, sounds like you're blaming the dev's mistakes on stupid players. I'm not at all convinced that any barrier to entry will keep out stupid or egotistical people and I don't see "some of them could be stupid" as a valid reason for not getting more people involved in the scene. I think you're misunderstanding his point. It's a question of ignorance, not stupidity; everybody starts out ignorant of a genre they've never played. But a genre with a higher barrier of entry will by its nature have a greater ratio of informed to uninformed players, which in turn affects the kind of feedback devs get and more importantly means they're designing for a more informed audience, which means better games.
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Oct 23, 2011 23:26
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So if someone wanted to main Yun in 3S, how much hate would he get compared to wanting to main Yun in AE (until 2012 hits, so it'll be cool to use Yun again)? I wanna get back into Tekken 6, and I thought about using the Level Up app for guys like Kuma, Bob, Jack, Armor King, Ganryu, Devil Jin and Zafina. Is it worth the cash, or should I just resort to the Zaibatsu forums (though I got a feeling I'm hosed for Zafina and Ganryu since her threads are full of "i want zafinas tits"). I could probably also look up some Tekken Crash videos to help me come up with stuff for everyone else (there are some dudes who use Kuma in Korea).
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Oct 23, 2011 23:49
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Fenn the Fool! posted:Secondly, high level play requires you grind muscle memory. I think this is bad because I don't find it to be fun and I don't have a respect for it like I do for reaction time, strategy, or reading. Just out of curiosity, why? Can you appreciate a basketball player with a perfect form jumpshot, or a virtuoso musician? Execution and strategy go hand-in-hand in most fast paced competitive games. Who do people wanna see play, MarlinPie or Viscant? New players and old players LOVE execution skills. Everyone loves to see Yipes, Combofiend, Sako, MarlinPie, and so on do crazy poo poo. It is a public demonstration of alot of hard work coming together. We are hard-wired to enjoy that.  People just want to be able to do MarlinPie or Sako's combos without putting in the practice that they do. On the surface, it seems like "well just make it so anybody can do it," but that removes what makes it fun and interesting in the first place. Fenn the Fool! posted:I guess I have two separate points here. Well, at this point I think we are just left with speculation and guessing, because I can't directly counter your claims with any real facts or anything. This is all just friendly discussion.  One-frame link combos are a calculated risk, and that is part of strategy. Every top player still drops 1-frame links, except for a limited few combos that are either so absolutely necessary that they really grind them hardcore, or they are super easy to plink and the duration you have to pause is short. Also, simply put, SRK FADC is not remotely necessary to be good at SF4. I want to invoke the concept of "balance." Balance is not just matchups, balance is offering different characters and strategies that work well with different people with different skills and thought processes. Some of us are offense-minded people (Alex Valle), defense-minded people (Arturo), strategic masters (Viscant), execution gods (Marn, MarlinPie), or better than most at everything (JWong). There are young players who don't have as much technical skill but make up for it with drive and reactions, and veterans who don't have much time to play but make up for it with experience. I can do this list with people who are bad at basic skills, like execution. Again, there are characters you can excel at in SF4 even if you don't want to practice combos very much at all. The last time this came up, I posted a Gootecks match where he barely lost against Mago (at different times rated possibly the best player in the world) and he did absolutely nothing hard, and the one time he went for something that required tight timing, he screwed it up. (And it wasn't a big deal) Again, what can't someone with poor execution do with Bison or Balrog, that is needed to play at the highest level? Lastly, even if you design a game to be easy to play, it is still hard to stop people from pushing the limits and finding stuff on the ragged edge of possible. If you can dial a phone you can do a 100% combo in MvC3. They tried to make everything easy to do- all the really hard stuff is pushing the engine to places the developers did not intend. edit- Most everything that is really hard in FGs is stuff that wasn't intended. You'd have to patch the game everytime someone found something cool. That would be lame as hell. 40 OZ fucked around with this message at 23:58 on Oct 23, 2011 |
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Oct 23, 2011 23:52
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