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Magic_Ceiling_Fan posted:I honestly think that within the confines of a wrestling environment, Goldberg was bigger than the Rock, but not Stone Cold. Goldberg was over as gently caress in 1998. Uh huh... and then never again after that year where the Rock was over as gently caress in 1999, 2000, 2001 and 2002.
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Oct 27, 2011 19:59
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Moose Bigelow posted:If things were different then they would be different. Excellent point. So are you saying that nothing has happened in the last what, 11+ years, since peak Goldberg and peak Rock to impact their popularity?
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Oct 27, 2011 20:02
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Great White Hope posted:So are you saying that nothing has happened in the last what, 11+ years, since peak Goldberg and peak Rock to impact their popularity? You are trying to fantasy book the past to justify why you like Goldberg more than the Rock.
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Oct 27, 2011 20:02
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Moose Bigelow posted:You are trying to fantasy book the past to justify why you like Goldberg more than the Rock. Actually I like Rock way more than Goldberg, but I was arguing why 'Rock got a bigger reaction than Goldberg would as being announced for the guest host of Wrestlemania' is not a good argument for Goldberg vs. Rock back when Goldberg was actually relevant.
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Oct 27, 2011 20:04
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Great White Hope posted:So are you saying that nothing has happened in the last what, 11+ years, since peak Goldberg and peak Rock to impact their popularity? I think he's saying that you basically went 'yea but if this totally different thing happened, you'd see I'm right'.
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Oct 27, 2011 20:06
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Simply looking at their work outside of wrestling Rock is the clear winner in terms in mainstream success.
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Oct 27, 2011 20:06
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MassRayPer posted:Uh huh... and then never again after that year where the Rock was over as gently caress in 1999, 2000, 2001 and 2002. But the question I have is was 1998 Goldberg more or less over than 1999-2000 Rock? I think that Goldberg was more over in 1998 than the Rock was from 1999-2000, but it's entirely debatable because it's like night and day even though it's only a year or so apart because WCW went into the shitter in 1999. It just seems like the Rock was always second fiddle to Steve Austin. Zack_Gochuck fucked around with this message at 20:14 on Oct 27, 2011 |
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Oct 27, 2011 20:09
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All I can say is that as a kid in England at some point in the late nineties who never watched wrestling, I was very aware of the Rock (I remember people looking at me funny because he was either heel at the time or they liked Austin more) but hadn't heard of Goldberg until his WWE debut.
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Oct 27, 2011 20:10
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Magic_Ceiling_Fan posted:But the question I have is was 1998 Goldberg more or less over than 1999-2000 Rock? I think that Goldberg was more over in 1998 than the Rock was from 1999-2000, but it's entirely debatable because it's like night and day even though it's only a year or so apart because WCW went into the shitter in 1999. Rock was the #1 face from late 99 to late 2000. #1 face of the biggest wrestling company on the planet, at the height of their success. There's not a lot to argue here.
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Oct 27, 2011 20:12
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Magic_Ceiling_Fan posted:But the question I have is was 1998 Goldberg more or less over than 1999-2000 Rock? I think that Goldberg was more over in 1998 than the Rock was from 1999-2000, but it's entirely debatable because it's like night and day even though it's only a year or so apart because WCW went into the shitter in 1999. Goldberg was probably WCW's biggest star when he got hot, at which point WWE was closing the gap, but WCW still won the ratings more weeks than not. Actually, he definitely, not probably, was the biggest star in WCW prior to being marginalized and killed off. I don't know his peak was ever beyond Rock's, but they would certainly be comparable in that respect.
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Oct 27, 2011 20:17
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WCW's height was effectively two years, which is about how long Goldberg's career might as well have been. I remember how over he was at the Souled Out PPV in West Virginia. People were chanting his name all night, whether he was involved with that match or not. They had to mute the crowd audio through most of the PPV. WCW and Goldberg's window was so short that it's hard to look back and compare that to the good decade run The Rock had at the height of his game.
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Oct 27, 2011 20:48
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Flameingblack posted:WCW and Goldberg's window was so short that it's hard to look back and compare that to the good decade run The Rock had at the height of his game. Rock had a decade? 1998-2008?
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Oct 27, 2011 21:02
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Goldberg was on top of WCW when they won their last MNW ratings battle. Meaning he was on top when they lost the war.
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Oct 27, 2011 21:12
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The Rock got his own TV show. That makes me think he was more over in terms of the wrestling industry. I have no other facts to defend my argument, so I rest my case.
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Oct 27, 2011 21:12
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Benign posted:The Rock got his own TV show. That makes me think he was more over in terms of the wrestling industry. And they named Shotgun Saturday Night after Kerry Von Erich. Are we going to argue how over he was for a show being named after him as well? It was a revolver, I know.
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Oct 27, 2011 21:18
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Lone Rogue posted:Rock had a decade? 1998-2008?
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Oct 27, 2011 21:56
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MassRayPer posted:The Rock was a much much bigger star than Goldberg and it isn't even close. I'm not sure where people were seeing these Goldberg t-shirts but they didn't compare to Rock merchandise, Rock ratings, Rock buyrates and Rock's mainstream impact. Goldberg was a huge star from June of 1998 through January of 1999 and after that showed no impact on WCW's business. Yes, but could the Rock beat up Goldberg?
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Oct 27, 2011 22:27
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MrBling posted:The former is what allows Goldberg to pick up Steiner almost at will and actually parade him around in a military press and a stalling suplex forever. The latter is Steiner is struggling to get Goldberg up for his power moves despite his gigantic muscles. Goldberg was a freak because he was drat NFL player. He was literally one of the top athletes in the world before he ever set foot in a ring. Not many other wrestlers could probably touch him in the sheer athleticism department. Shamrock, Angle, Lesnar and, well, not many others.
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Oct 27, 2011 22:36
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WoodrowSkillson posted:Goldberg was a freak because he was drat NFL player. He was literally one of the top athletes in the world before he ever set foot in a ring. Not many other wrestlers could probably touch him in the sheer athleticism department. Shamrock, Angle, Lesnar and, well, not many others. He was a lineman. This does not make him a great athlete.
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Oct 27, 2011 22:37
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flashy_mcflash posted:Listening to a LAW podcast yesterday and they were talking about the Rockers/Hart Foundation title change match where the top rope broke and it didn't make air. They were saying that happened because WWF prefer(red) using real ropes for the ring ropes rather than steel cable, which is what WCW was using. It sounds like the cable is less prone to breakage and that the cruisers and other guys who used top rope maneuvers vastly prefer it. Anyone?
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Oct 27, 2011 22:44
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flashy_mcflash posted:Anyone? I'm going to take a shot in the dark here, but I'm guessing it's just a Vince thing
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Oct 27, 2011 22:48
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SAVE_US.CHR
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Lone Goat posted:I thought he was just a road agent and did match endings, but not the actual results. I remember reading references to "1, 2, Johnny Ace!" due how many false finishes there would be in a given Nitro. Cornette on Ace - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HljqU9qIAQY Touches on what was being discussed, though it doesn't explain exactly what his position in WCW was.
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Oct 27, 2011 22:54
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How come Goldberg wore those little boots when he had tiny ankles? He looked like a cartoon bulldog.
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Oct 27, 2011 22:56
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Moose Bigelow posted:He was a lineman. This does not make him a great athlete. Uh, yeah they are, I'm not sure how you could claim defensive linemen are not great athletes.
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Oct 27, 2011 22:56
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WoodrowSkillson posted:Uh, yeah they are, I'm not sure how you could claim defensive linemen are not great athletes. He wasn't good enough to hang around in the NFL for a long time. Some linemen are athletic but those are DEs. He was a DT who failed when he couldn't bull rush interior linemen who were as strong as he was.
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Oct 27, 2011 22:58
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Moose Bigelow posted:He wasn't good enough to hang around in the NFL for a long time. Some linemen are athletic but those are DEs. He was a DT who failed when he couldn't bull rush interior linemen who were as strong as he was. Simply getting into the league and staying in it for three years until injury ended his career still puts him way past most people in the country/world, and certainly above nearly every pro wrestler. Outside of some spectacular busts (Skittles), most guys who manage to play would count as amazing athletes.
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Oct 27, 2011 23:01
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WoodrowSkillson posted:Simply getting into the league and staying in it for three years until injury ended his career still puts him way past most people in the country/world, and certainly above nearly every pro wrestler. Outside of some spectacular busts (Skittles), most guys who manage to play would count as amazing athletes. Noted superior athletes: Tony Siragusa Gilbert Brown Aaron Gibson Kelly Gregg
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Oct 27, 2011 23:03
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Moose Bigelow posted:He wasn't good enough to hang around in the NFL for a long time. Some linemen are athletic but those are DEs. He was a DT who failed when he couldn't bull rush interior linemen who were as strong as he was. I looked up Goldbergs NFL career because I never really read anything about it and ... quote:Goldberg's NFL career ended when he tore his lower abdomen off his pelvis. 
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Oct 27, 2011 23:03
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Moose Bigelow posted:He wasn't good enough to hang around in the NFL for a long time. Some linemen are athletic but those are DEs. He was a DT who failed when he couldn't bull rush interior linemen who were as strong as he was. The average career span of an NFL player is three seasons. Not being the best in the league doesn't make you unathletic, sorry.
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Oct 27, 2011 23:06
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OneThousandMonkeys posted:The average career span of an NFL player is three seasons. Not being the best in the league doesn't make you unathletic, sorry. Being a champion in a fake sport and an average NFL player doesn't make you athletic either.
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Oct 27, 2011 23:08
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Moose Bigelow posted:Noted superior athletes: Compared to average people, hell yes they are. Plus goldberg was like 285, which is very different then Tony Siragusa's 350lbs. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=2i28MU8-lcw#t=38s Here is Rich Eisen getting destroyed by Terrance Cody in the 40. Moose Bigelow posted:Being a champion in a fake sport and an average NFL player doesn't make you athletic either. Yes, being an average NFL player does make you very, extremely athletic, in every way.
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Oct 27, 2011 23:09
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flashy_mcflash posted:Anyone? Made sense to me given the WWE style.
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Oct 27, 2011 23:30
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Does WWE own the USWA tape library now too or do they have some sort of deal worked out where they get stuff on loan or something? I don't remember hearing anything about that. They are showing a Austin/Dundee 1990 match this month on Classics so that's what got me wondering.
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Oct 27, 2011 23:48
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Defensive linemen are the most athletic players on the field, if Madden 12 commentary is anything to go by. But seriously, Goldberg was a 4-3 DTackle, meaning he was extremely athletic. 3-4 DTackles are more likely to be big fat plugs, although they're still more athletic than you or I'll ever be.
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Oct 28, 2011 00:01
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Bearnt! posted:Does WWE own the USWA tape library now too or do they have some sort of deal worked out where they get stuff on loan or something? I don't remember hearing anything about that. They are showing a Austin/Dundee 1990 match this month on Classics so that's what got me wondering. Memphis' tape situation is such a ridiculous clusterfuck that I doubt WWE will ever own any substantial part of it. I know Lawler's got a bunch of master tapes, but he doesn't have broadcast rights for them, so maybe they worked out a deal with whoever had the rights to that time period, then used a tape Lawler had?
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Oct 28, 2011 00:59
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tzirean posted:Memphis' tape situation is such a ridiculous clusterfuck that I doubt WWE will ever own any substantial part of it. I know Lawler's got a bunch of master tapes, but he doesn't have broadcast rights for them, so maybe they worked out a deal with whoever had the rights to that time period, then used a tape Lawler had? I thought it was Jerry Jarrett. Vince has a good relationship with Jerry even if he doesn't like Jeff.
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Oct 28, 2011 02:06
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I think I've read a few times that current and former WWE/world champs get first class airfare. Is that really true? If so, does Dolph Ziggler get that too? They refereed to him as a former world champ on Smackdown or something recently even though he had the belt for a few minutes.
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Oct 28, 2011 19:22
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Current maybe, but former? Unless they're still in the main event picture why would they do that? I doubt Ziggler and Swagger are getting that.
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Oct 28, 2011 19:25
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I was under the impression that WWE wrestlers arranged and paid for their own travel?
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Oct 28, 2011 19:29
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DannoMack posted:I was under the impression that WWE wrestlers arranged and paid for their own travel? The tippy-top guys can get some perks like that. I think only Taker, Triple H, Orton, Cena and Punk rate the top tier travel perks right now.
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Oct 28, 2011 19:48
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