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Did I misremember Skullgirls being announced for the PC? I just looked at the website and saw no mention of it.
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Nov 16, 2011 23:43
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How does the girl with the giant pair of arms on her head weigh less than filia
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Nov 16, 2011 23:44
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Robolizard! posted:How does the girl with the giant pair of arms on her head weigh less than filia The arms are just her hat, so I guess clothing is not included in weight. The more illogical thing is that Cerebella should have some enormous neck muscles to be able to support the hat plus whatever the hat is holding.
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Nov 16, 2011 23:46
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but they include the giant painwheel for painwheel's weight!
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Nov 17, 2011 00:00
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Cerebella can take the hat off, but the wheel is permanently fused to Painwheel's spine.
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Nov 17, 2011 00:03
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Robolizard! posted:How does the girl with the giant pair of arms on her head weigh less than filia http://revergelabs.com/2011/10/licentiousness-and-turpitude-whiteboard-wednesday/ Seems pretty obvious to me.
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Nov 17, 2011 00:07
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redmercer posted:Did I misremember Skullgirls being announced for the PC? I just looked at the website and saw no mention of it. Yeah it's coming to PC, but at a later date than the XBL/PSN releases.
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Nov 17, 2011 09:29
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http://shoryuken.com/2011/11/17/the-rise-of-the-armchair-street-fighter/ What an insightful article.
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Nov 17, 2011 10:16
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Crossposting this from the Megaten thread but two more dudes revealed for the Persona 4 fighter and basically the best two possible choices they could have made. I really hope this doesn't suck.
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Nov 17, 2011 21:43
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Where's a guy to find a PCB for the 360 these days? FocusAttack seems to be out of stock on everything all the time and akhibarashop's custom PCB lineup seems to have dried up almost. eTokki has the Paewang's for $54.95 but I'm hoping to find a better deal someplace. Or do I just say "meh" and pick up a MadCatz wired 360 controller like the good ol' days?
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Nov 17, 2011 23:11
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I happened to get a new Mortal Kombat fight stick for the 360 for free. I'm probably not going to use it since I don't play a lot of MK, and I prefer pad for that anyways. On eBay, I'm seeing a lot of "Buy it now" stuff set at $125 or so. I imagine that these aren't exactly the best indicators. Does anyone know how much these would normally go for?
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Nov 18, 2011 05:59
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The big wooden, ostentatious PDP one that breaks a lot and has the gilded trim and the memory foam? As low as 50, as high as 120. Try selling it on Test Your Might or a similar forum filled with people who value nostalgia over layouts sized for the human hand.
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Nov 18, 2011 06:25
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Broken Loose posted:The big wooden, ostentatious PDP one that breaks a lot and has the gilded trim and the memory foam? As low as 50, as high as 120. Try selling it on Test Your Might or a similar forum filled with people who value nostalgia over layouts sized for the human hand. It's the one that came with the tournament edition of MK. I was going to just keep it and play Marvel on it, but that thing is gigantic and the buttons are extremely far apart.
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Nov 18, 2011 06:29
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Gamest Mook posted:http://shoryuken.com/2011/11/17/the-rise-of-the-armchair-street-fighter/ The problem though is that, in fact, Killian's argument is wrong. There are barriers to entry, so to speak, even if they're not the same, or as extreme. There is an economic barrier if the equipment you need is expensive. Maybe it's not as expensive as a set of athletic equipment, especially for football or hockey, but in order to buy a decent arcade stick you're looking at investing at least $150, probably more, maybe less if you can find one used, or wait for a sale (like I did). Add to that the cost of an Xbox 360, PS3, etc., a television, so on and so forth, and there is clearly an economic barrier for those who'd like to play, but simply can't afford to. Another barrier is competition. It's hard to play against good players if they don't exist, and there isn't a scene in your area. Maybe there's something going on 100 miles away, but maybe you don't have a car, or maybe you can't afford the gas. There are definitely ways around such obstacles, but you'd already have to be very dedicated. The single most significant barrier to entry though, is time. Not everybody has 6+ hours to devote to these games everyday, or a majority of days, in order to stay competitive, and that's what it takes. What if you need to support yourself or a family? What if you work fulltime? Overtime? Have a girlfriend or wife? A career? You have to sacrifice all lot of the above to become competitive at something which isn't likely to generate a lot of income, and develop a skill which isn't valued in the least by society, and especially by those who matter in society. Even Killian's argument about genetics is flawed. What if someone wants to play these games, but is mentally incapable of doing so? Anyway
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Nov 18, 2011 06:33
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Capsaicin posted:On eBay, I'm seeing a lot of "Buy it now" stuff set at $125 or so. I imagine that these aren't exactly the best indicators. Does anyone know how much these would normally go for? Go to advanced search and search for "completed auctions." Find a couple auctions that ended with a winning bidder and see what other people have been paying for it. This is the best way to figure out what you can get for basically anything on ebay. 
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Nov 18, 2011 06:46
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JesusLovesRonwell posted:The problem though is that, in fact, Killian's argument is wrong. There are barriers to entry, so to speak, even if they're not the same, or as extreme. There is an economic barrier if the equipment you need is expensive. You don't necessarily need a $150 Arcade stick, and the original article was written back in the late 90's when arcades were still around and it only cost $0.50 per play. quote:Another barrier is competition. With internet play, that's even less of an excuse now than it was 10+ years ago. quote:The single most significant barrier to entry though, is time. The amount of time it takes to get decent at newer fighting games like SF4 and MvC3 is no where near the amount of time it would take to get to reach the same level in chess or sports like basketball, which were the games Seth was actually using for comparison. quote:What if someone wants to play these games, but is mentally incapable of doing so? That's why the Smash competitive scene still exists.
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Nov 18, 2011 07:02
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Shiki Dan posted:That's why the Smash competitive scene still exists. That's a humdinger
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Nov 18, 2011 07:07
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JesusLovesRonwell posted:The single most significant barrier to entry though, is time. Not everybody has 6+ hours to devote to these games They seem to have no problem watching streams 12+ hours every week 40 OZ fucked around with this message at 07:18 on Nov 18, 2011 |
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Nov 18, 2011 07:08
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Shiki Dan posted:You don't necessarily need a $150 Arcade stick, and the original article was written back in the late 90's when arcades were still around and it only cost $0.50 per play. $.50 a play to get bodied with no explanation of why you're a scrub. Also, all arcades were not equal, even in the 90's. Internet play? Seriously? What do all the best players say about internet play or online? Even GGPO is garbagey. It for sure takes less time to get competitive at newer fighting games, especially compared to older fighting games, and a game like chess or basketball. But to get to a competitive level still takes a huge time commitment, especially if you want to compete against the best players, like Justin Wong. Also, if you spent 6+ hours a day playing basketball, you'd actually be pretty good at it, believe it or not.
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Nov 18, 2011 07:24
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JesusLovesRonwell posted:especially if you want to compete against the best players, like Justin Wong. That is what this is about, isn't it? I don't want to make this too drawn out, but consider that every player in the competitive landscape has to do all of these things, too. He wasn't just born the greatest player in the USA. I don't know if I should go further here, because this has nothing to do with fighting games at all. Yes, in a competitive game it is very difficult to be the very best. That literally is competition. It's difficult for everybody! Some people will be the best, most people will be average, and some people will suck. Also, I don't understand why people want to be able to beat justin wong before they ever play. The point of these games is to get better at something and to compete, because we are people and that is a thing that people generally find fun or enlightening or whatever. I think this is the confusing part to those who are players about the "fans." If Yipes, JWong, or Daigo lived in Nebraska and couldn't play fighting games they would be godlike starcraft or tf2 players or something.
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Nov 18, 2011 07:35
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JesusLovesRonwell posted:Also, if you spent 6+ hours a day playing basketball, you'd actually be pretty good at it, believe it or not. Yeah, I guess that was my point?
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Nov 18, 2011 07:41
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Actually, I think Yipes was a pro (or at least very, very good) Unreal Tournament player back in the day. I've recently come upon enough money to afford a fightstick. I'm torn between just buying a TE or making my own by refurbishing a cigar box or some other fightstick-sized object.
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Nov 18, 2011 07:45
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JesusLovesRonwell posted:Also, if you spent 6+ hours a day playing basketball, you'd actually be pretty good at it, believe it or not. No, I actually wouldn't. There are plenty of physical limitations I have (myopia, astigmatism, flat feet, and just not being born with the genetics to be a 6'9" lean muscled freak of nature) that would prevent me from ever stepping foot on a professional basketball court and competing on the same level as Kobe Bryant or LeBron James in any way, shape or form. It's not just a matter of time. Contrarily, there's nothing stopping me from going to EVO and competing on the same level as Justin Wong or Daigo other than being able to afford a plane ticket to Las Vegas. Even still at major tournaments I have actually been able to make, I am competing on the same level. Am I going to place Top 8? Am I going to knock Justin out of Marvel? Most probably not, but I am still given the opportunity to. (I actually HAVE won games against Justin Wong...in KOF XI, not exactly SF4 or Marvel, but hey...) That what Seth means about the lack of barrier for the FGC. Every player who enters the pot at major is treated exactly the same, other than seeding sometimes, but even still you have to win matches, and you have to avoid losing twice. Compare that to the NBA. I can't exactly drive to Michael Jordan's office and ask him to give me a chance to go on the court because I've been practicing 6 hours a day. Or compare that to Chess, even. I can't go up there and compete with the grandmasters with no rankings or points to my name.
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Nov 18, 2011 07:50
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Shiki Dan posted:No, I actually wouldn't. There are plenty of physical limitations I have (myopia, astigmatism, flat feet, and just not being born with the genetics to be a 6'9" lean muscled freak of nature) that would prevent me from ever stepping foot on a professional basketball court and competing on the same level as Kobe Bryant or LeBron James in any way, shape or form. Hey man, beating Justin at any fighting game is legit, especially a KOF. I haven't played a KOF since 2002 I think (it was the first KOF game that had MofW characters, like Tizoc) but I'm pretty psyched for 13. Serious question: wouldn't your myopia and your astigmatism kind of hurt your ability to play fighting games too? Anyway I'm 5'10'' and not especially physically gifted, I also have flat feet, but just by playing enough basketball I'm at a point were I can compete in a pickup game. Just like I'm good enough at Marvel 2 that I can still wreck poo poo at my local mall's arcade. But that's also because I've played a poo poo load of MvC2 for a decade. I was also fortunate enough to own a Dreamcast, MvC2 and a green goblin. You, and Killian are completely right about the democratic aspect of fg tournaments compared to professional sporting events. But then poker tournaments are also as democratic as fg tournaments, all you need is the entrance fee, which at major tourneys starts at $10,000. But that's only one part of Killian's larger argument. I'm not trying to degrade your, or anyone else's achievement, joy, whatever fulfillment you take from these games. I've been playing fighting games pretty much my whole life, from the original SF2 and Mortal Kombat, up to UMvC3. I started playing competitively with XvSF, and even owned import copies of that, MSHvSF, Vampire Savior and Real Bout Special for the Saturn. Personally, some of the best times I've had have been playing these games to all hours of the night with friends and like-minded enthusiasts. And if I still had the time to devote to it, I would. I just wanted to point out that Seth's argument is flawed, and there are in fact barriers to competing at fg's that go beyond one's desire to do so, and that it is nowhere near as inclusive as he makes it out to be.
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Nov 18, 2011 08:51
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40 OZ posted:They seem to have no problem watching streams 12+ hours every week For some reason I have never enjoyed watching sports and always loved playing them instead, I feel the same way about fighting games. I basically only watch match videos for when I want to get ideas. People who watch fighting games all the time but suck at them are the exact same people that watch sports all the time but never play them. Shiki Dan posted:Or compare that to Chess, even. I can't go up there and compete with the grandmasters with no rankings or points to my name. Actually online play is a huge thing in Chess and if you played 6 hours a day and were grandmaster level you would probably have the online ranking in month probably way less. Maybe not in big official tournaments but certainly in casuals, or online tournaments. ShinsoBEAM! fucked around with this message at 09:34 on Nov 18, 2011 |
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Nov 18, 2011 09:31
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JesusLovesRonwell posted:
Not really; my depth perception problems aren't a hindrance when playing a video game because it's on a flat 2-D screen. In fact, I'm actually better at playing zoning, poking and projectile characters because while I'm terrible at execution I can judge 2-D space well. In fact, that's how I beat Justin in KOFXI (I main Jyazu, of course). Meanwhile, trying to shoot a ball at a hoop in 3-D space while trying to judge the distance of the arc I need is a real problem for me now as I've gotten older and my eyesight has gotten progressively worse. I actually used to be a decent shooter (I remember in my first year of little league I was the team MVP for my passing and shooting skills) before I developed astigmatism, but way before that I discovered I liked pizza as much as basketball so around 8 years old or so I turned into a fatty-fatty-fat kid and my semi-successful little league basketball days were over. As for Chess, I do play online, but only against the CPU. I actually haven't tried playing against someone else offline or online, despite studying and practicing for a few hours a week over the past few years...so I guess in chess I would be the equivalent of the training mode warrior who's too chickenshit to go to tournaments for whatever reason  So yeah, back to the point, while I can't say there are absolutely NO barriers to the FGC, I believe Seth's argument is that it is still way more accessible than traditional sports and games, and even most other competitive video games (Starcraft). Shiki Dan fucked around with this message at 10:28 on Nov 18, 2011 |
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Nov 18, 2011 10:26
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I'd say the odds of you making a name for yourself are probably higher in fighting games, but I could never say they're competitively accessible purely because of how netplay isn't really an option. If you have no scene your options are to drive long distances which is simply not viable for many (especially teens, who make up a good chunk of competitive players in other genres) or to suffer through the garbage that is online play. If I play LoL or Starcraft or TF2 or whatever then I'm playing a game designed for and built around the assumption that all players will have a degree of lag; yeah LANs happen, but you certainly don't need to attend them to get a strong dosage of competition. As someone who is huge into competitive games but lives in the middle of nowhere, I really just can't agree with Seth's stance at all, at least compared to other games.
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Nov 18, 2011 10:32
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Yea this conversation is cool but I have a more important concern What ever happened to like the very newest version of Matrimelee aka Power Instinct whatever number it's supposed to be? Did that ever get released on anything?
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Nov 18, 2011 10:42
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40 OZ posted:Also, I don't understand why people want to be able to beat justin wong before they ever play. The point of these games is to get better at something and to compete, because we are people and that is a thing that people generally find fun or enlightening or whatever. The point of these games is to make money, that's all it is and ever will be. The fact that people CAN play these games as they do is pretty impressive, but it is not the primary purpose by a long shot. If it was, there would never have been a decline in fighting games after 2002 as competition was still strong, but there was no real revenue in it for Capcom. Countblanc posted:I'd say the odds of you making a name for yourself are probably higher in fighting games, but I could never say they're competitively accessible purely because of how netplay isn't really an option. If you have no scene your options are to drive long distances which is simply not viable for many (especially teens, who make up a good chunk of competitive players in other genres) or to suffer through the garbage that is online play. If I play LoL or Starcraft or TF2 or whatever then I'm playing a game designed for and built around the assumption that all players will have a degree of lag; yeah LANs happen, but you certainly don't need to attend them to get a strong dosage of competition. This is also a very hard truth. Most players I've met who don't even want to become competitive would like an offline outlet to play. But when the closest thing is 2 hours away, you would have to be a super obsessed player with a lot of spare cash or nothing better to do if you are going to waste that kind of money on gas every week/day for something that isn't family or work due to the total cost and sheer distance you would have to travel every time you just wanted to play a videogame.
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Nov 18, 2011 11:15
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If FG were as big as basketball competitively you probably wouldn't be able to go play in the same bracket as Justin Wong either. They're competitively accessible in that respect only because the scene is small enough that allowing anyone who wants it in to the main tournament is not a logistical impossibility.
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Nov 18, 2011 12:00
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Capsaicin posted:I happened to get a new Mortal Kombat fight stick for the 360 for free. I'm probably not going to use it since I don't play a lot of MK, and I prefer pad for that anyways. On eBay, I'm seeing a lot of "Buy it now" stuff set at $125 or so. I imagine that these aren't exactly the best indicators. Does anyone know how much these would normally go for?
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Nov 18, 2011 15:01
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Shiki Dan posted:Not really; my depth perception problems aren't a hindrance when playing a video game because it's on a flat 2-D screen. In fact, I'm actually better at playing zoning, poking and projectile characters because while I'm terrible at execution I can judge 2-D space well. In fact, that's how I beat Justin in KOFXI (I main Jyazu, of course). I was born with astigmatism. I'm legally blind in my left eye. Shiki Dan is completely right, it doesn't make fighters any harder. I think players like Broly stand out as a testament to the entry barrier of fighters. The fact that he can compete in literally the same tournament as (and even run sets against) Daigo is more than can be said about nearly anything. I doubt he'd be able to play Chess without somebody moving the pieces for him, and Starcraft/FPS's don't really lend very well to mouth play.
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Nov 18, 2011 18:13
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I am really impressed with Broly's tenacity and all but I don't really see him getting far in many games other than SF4.
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Nov 18, 2011 18:29
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That and Smash.
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Nov 18, 2011 18:48
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Smash sucks y'all.
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Nov 18, 2011 19:19
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MrJacobs posted:This is also a very hard truth. Most players I've met who don't even want to become competitive would like an offline outlet to play. But when the closest thing is 2 hours away, you would have to be a super obsessed player with a lot of spare cash or nothing better to do if you are going to waste that kind of money on gas every week/day for something that isn't family or work due to the total cost and sheer distance you would have to travel every time you just wanted to play a videogame. Again we have this "very hard truth" that being literally the best in the world is too difficult for most people. Why? Why is this a big deal? Do you guys participate in anything else? Do you need need to be Usain Bolt to go jogging every morning and train for a 5K or marathon? What about your bench press? Do you go to the gym and see some hulk looking monster and say "welp, n/m." Of course not. Just like everything else in the world, what is fun is to beat your personal time and get better. Most people compete and make some bets against their friends in these activities, too! When I went to college I drove I drove 2 hours (counting both ways) to go to the bitchin' fighting game scene one night a week. I wasn't training for EVO, I just love playing fighting games, getting better at them, and playing against good players. I don't see how this is some freaky goon level of commitment. How is this any different than going bowling or playing rec league hoops on wednesday? If you lived an hour away from Super Arcade you'd do the same thing to go to Wednesday Night Fights, right? Is that because it is on stream with your dreamiest professional players? This is this MMORPG mindset here. "Ah, well I have to spend X resources to get to the next skill level." If you don't simply have a passion for playing and getting better then I don't know what to say. And again, the very nature of competitive games is that only a couple people can be the best. There is nothing that can change that. Bubble-T posted:If FG were as big as basketball competitively you probably wouldn't be able to go play in the same bracket as Justin Wong either. They're competitively accessible in that respect only because the scene is small enough that allowing anyone who wants it in to the main tournament is not a logistical impossibility. What? What makes you say that? That is crazy to say something like that. Ever watch gootecks' youtube show? Do you think every guy who beats them is also a sponsored professional? 40 OZ fucked around with this message at 19:40 on Nov 18, 2011 |
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Nov 18, 2011 19:30
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40 OZ and Bubble-T are both correct. The top level aren't inaccessible by any means-- I took a round off of Tokido in Marvel the night before CEO. However, the fact that they are so readily available to fight is indicative of the size of the tournament. It's also indicative of our different approach. In Chess, you can be put into a separate tournament based off of your ranking, but that rarely happens in fighters because we want the top level to do the same work everybody has to do. If the EVO brackets were huge, like 10k players huge, then we might see more buys based off seeding points to save time and prevent the players who earned their place from getting randomed out. Professional sports are businesses, so the players' managers can arrange cushy situations to prevent embarassment and psychologically solidify their position as a pro. That sort of poo poo happened with SBO when Daigo got a free entry even though he didn't qualify in advance, totally loving over Brazil and Banana Ken. Currently, that poo poo doesn't and shouldn't fly in the community.
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Nov 18, 2011 19:51
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40 OZ posted:When I went to college I drove I drove 2 hours (counting both ways) to go to the bitchin' fighting game scene one night a week. I wasn't training for EVO, I just love playing fighting games, getting better at them, and playing against good players. I don't see how this is some freaky goon level of commitment. How is this any different than going bowling or playing rec league hoops on wednesday? Most people don't drive two hours to go bowling, believe it or not. And even if they were willing to you're being naive if you think it's a viable financial option for a lot of younger players and unemployed people. Playing online isn't just "not preparing me for EVO," it's actively unfun. I'm terrible at these games, but I've still played enough other games (even non-competitive ones) to know what a game is supposed to control like, and online fighters are not fun to control. You feel sluggish and impotent, you drop poo poo that you hit in training mode without issue, and it's extremely frustrating. Fortunately this isn't the case with every game, but it certainly is in the two most popular ones which is what I expect most people to play. I already said that the top isn't inaccessible compared to other games, but a lot of that is the sheer lack of popularity. And that's fine! I'm not saying that needs to change. But the lack of popularity is exactly why people are having trouble finding places to play that are reasonable distances away. I'm not calling you a goony goon goon or whatever for having the financial ability and free time to do that, but compare that to any other type of game, where they are designed around online being the primary means of play, and you can see why staying at home and playing LoL while watching a stream is a very popular option.
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Nov 18, 2011 20:02
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Countblanc posted:but compare that to any other type of game, where they are designed around online being the primary means of play, and you can see why staying at home and playing LoL Exactly. I agree completely. Again, Daigo/Yipes/JWong would be top DOTA/TF2/whatever players if they lived in bumfuck, nowhere. The competition is what draws players, not the Deep Storyline or Sakura's pantyshots. Countblanc posted:Playing online isn't just "not preparing me for EVO," it's actively unfun. I'm terrible at these games, but I've still played enough other games (even non-competitive ones) to know what a game is supposed to control like, and online fighters are not fun to control. You feel sluggish and impotent, you drop poo poo that you hit in training mode without issue, and it's extremely frustrating. Playing FG online is just not even the same to me as in person, and I'm not even talking about lag. I don't really think it will ever replace live play. If I knew that I would only be playing fighting games online forever I would quit playing them. 40 OZ fucked around with this message at 20:14 on Nov 18, 2011 |
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Nov 18, 2011 20:08
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40 OZ posted:Again we have this "very hard truth" that being literally the best in the world is too difficult for most people. It's a hard truth that a lot of the time it's not that easy to find good players locally, unless you are willing to drive considerable distance and deal with the gas cost just to play a videogame. A lot of people aren't willing to do this if they are in that particular situation for a variety of reasons. I never said a drat thing about being the best in the world at a videogame and how I have problems grasping that.
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Nov 18, 2011 20:14
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