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As far as esports goes, what I'd kind of like to see is MLG or whoever taking one of the really solid games that people making tournaments right now don't give a poo poo about, like Arcana Hearts or Virtua Fighter, and just seeing what they could do with that. I don't really know the history with fighting games and esports, though, so maybe they've already tried something like that.
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Dec 5, 2011 21:44
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Klaus Kinski posted:That if you played 60 min sets in fgs, you'd get very consistent results? Are you just not gonna address at all the fact that this would be a tremendous change to how FG tournaments are held? Also, can you not post like a dildo?  FYI when you are proposing grand changes to the basic structure of competition, that kind of thing is not implied between the lines in your post; you actually need to explicitly state that kind of thing. Bovineicide posted:Nothing says "I made it" quite like opening up a store on Cafe Press to sell panties with your face on it. He could be living off his parents and food stamps but he claims to make more in machinama partner revenue than he made in his real job. I don't know what he makes per click, but he has a ridiculous number of videos and gets a shitload of traffic. Seems believable to me. 40 OZ fucked around with this message at 21:49 on Dec 5, 2011 |
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Dec 5, 2011 21:45
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Anyone who starts talking about anything to do with the future of fighting games in terms of how it will benefit them as a spectator should be summarily ignored.
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Dec 5, 2011 21:48
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Eeevil posted:As far as esports goes, what I'd kind of like to see is MLG or whoever taking one of the really solid games that people making tournaments right now don't give a poo poo about, like Arcana Hearts or Virtua Fighter, and just seeing what they could do with that. I don't really know the history with fighting games and esports, though, so maybe they've already tried something like that. Yeah they've tried this already and they used DOA and Virtua Fighter, followed by Tekken 6. And I think Brawl was a MLG game but honestly I have no idea.
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Dec 5, 2011 21:48
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PonchAxis posted:Yeah they've tried this already and they used DOA and Virtua Fighter, followed by Tekken 6. And I think Brawl was a MLG game but honestly I have no idea. Melee and Brawl (they both only lasted for the '06 and '10 seasons, respectively.) e: wait I remembered wrong and Melee started in 04 and went through 06.
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Dec 5, 2011 21:52
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40 OZ posted:In starcraft, an amateur is just not going to touch a top 8 player. I don't think this is true. The skills manifest in different ways, and speeds, but in much the same way, any solid fighting game will bear out the skill difference longterm. Will a new player win a round or maybe a match from Daigo sometimes? Yeah. Some games more than others. But would they win a FT10? I really, really, really doubt it. Less so in games with less in the way of comeback mechanics.
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Dec 5, 2011 21:54
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PonchAxis posted:Yeah they've tried this already and they used DOA and Virtua Fighter, followed by Tekken 6. And I think Brawl was a MLG game but honestly I have no idea. Did they fail because of MLG shittiness or because people don't like playing those games?
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Dec 5, 2011 21:54
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Gamest Mook posted:Anyone who starts talking about anything to do with the future of fighting games in terms of how it will benefit them as a spectator should be summarily ignored. Pretty much. It's not a spectator sport. It's a hobby. You play the loving game. Justin Wong is a dude who plays the game you play.
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Dec 5, 2011 21:55
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Countblanc posted:Did they fail because of MLG shittiness or because people don't like playing those games? MLG shittiness and the money wasn't very good.
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Dec 5, 2011 21:58
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Countblanc posted:Did they fail because of MLG shittiness or because people don't like playing those games? Well both actually. Not that many people took DOA4 seriously, and there's something about a esports company picking up DOA4 that was gonna give out huge payouts but they ended up filing for bankruptcy. Not that many people in the US played VF for that matter either.
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Dec 5, 2011 21:58
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40 OZ posted:Are you just not gonna address at all the fact that this would be a tremendous change to how FG tournaments are held? I'm not saying it's a reasonable format in any way and honestly it would suck for pretty much everyone from tournament organizers to viewers. The point was to get more consistent results from a matchup, which you would get if you dedicated as much time to one as sc2 tournaments do.
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Dec 5, 2011 22:03
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Fayk posted:I don't think this is true. The skills manifest in different ways, and speeds, but in much the same way, any solid fighting game will bear out the skill difference longterm. Will a new player win a round or maybe a match from Daigo sometimes? Yeah. Some games more than others. But would they win a FT10? I really, really, really doubt it. Yeah I agree, but the problem remains, without fundamental changes to how tournaments are organized. I want to emphasize, this is in context of players emerging far beyond the level that currently exists. I'm saying that I can't see that happening, with SF4 and MVC3. To make a simpler analogy, I don't see how starcraft money or training can produce players dozens of players who can beat Justin Wong 9 games out of 10 in MVC3 or SF4 no matter how out of practice he is. That is an obvious conclusion, but from what I understood, this is what people think will happen once the MLG millions start falling. edit- Maybe I'm wrong. I'm not aggressively saying that I'm absolutely right or anything. This is just my modest estimation. 40 OZ fucked around with this message at 22:11 on Dec 5, 2011 |
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Dec 5, 2011 22:05
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No, you are pretty much correct but that's more of a problem with the games and exactly why larger sets are better for determining the winner. e: Not that I would mind seeing what level of competition korea/mlg levels of cash would create.
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Dec 5, 2011 22:18
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Klaus Kinski posted:No, you are pretty much correct but that's more of a problem with the games and exactly why larger sets are better for determining the winner. Afrocole had a thing going on last year called the Dojo sports league with larger sets but it ended up just not working out iirc.
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Dec 5, 2011 22:21
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Gamest Mook posted:Anyone who starts talking about anything to do with the future of fighting games in terms of how it will benefit them as a spectator should be summarily ignored. But why? This is a pretty broad statement to make with absolutely nothing backing it up. Zand fucked around with this message at 00:09 on Dec 6, 2011 |
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Dec 5, 2011 23:53
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PonchAxis posted:Afrocole had a thing going on last year called the Dojo sports league with larger sets but it ended up just not working out iirc. I think it largely flopped because it was based around online play (for the most part), and, welp.
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Dec 5, 2011 23:58
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40 OZ posted:Yeah I agree, but the problem remains, without fundamental changes to how tournaments are organized. Realistically, as soon as there are real "career opportunities", the nature of the competition simply changes. If you followed the RTS scene, there were "top players" who were considered unbeatable due to a mixture of smart practice and natural talent all the way up through around 2002. It was at this point that Koreans (and some foreigners) discovered that simply having some talent, plus the resources and willpower to practice ALL loving DAY, will eventually trump natural talent so severely as to render the previous untouchables totally obsolete. This happened with Starcraft and (to a much lesser degree) with Warcraft 3, and it could one day happen to FGs. While this may seem terrifying to tournament hopefuls (B-tier players with a chance to compete but who could only win a tournament due to many lucky breaks) it injects enormous amounts of life into a game and is really the only way to take things to the next level of skill/visibility. While the somewhat random nature of fighting games makes 9-1ing a very talented player quite difficult, and the skill ceiling is nowhere near what you would find in Brood War, you would still see top "career" players arise that could consistently 7-3 or 8-2 the "best" players of today, because they would simply be better, sooner, and eventually you would see an army of dudes playing at Daigo's level as the relative baseline for high-end competition.
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Dec 6, 2011 00:13
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This is off-topic, but are there any proper fighting games out there where characters have varying health for every matchup in the game? I found out that VOOT actually does this ( ) and I was wondering if basically any other fighting game ever had that.It's not even consistent varying health like Arcana Heart 3. In a game where the biggest character (Raiden) averages 1250-ish health and the weakest two (Cypher, Ajim) average about 700 and 500 respectively, you'll get poo poo like Dordray having 900 health versus Ajim, but 1350 versus Stein-Vok, which is more than Raiden ever has except in two matchups. One of them being Dordray himself, where he has 1550. vvvv It does seem pretty ingenious. It kind of avoids the problem of "well, if I tweak character X's attack damage to make him more viable against character Y, will it turn character Z's matchup versus X into a 9-1 sort of thing?" PalmTreeFun fucked around with this message at 01:05 on Dec 6, 2011 |
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Dec 6, 2011 00:34
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Sounds like a good way to isolate (minor) balance changes to a single number, actually. You'd have to learn to play with it in mind but matchup-specific tech isn't exactly a new concept, and variable health is a simpler idea than learning what normals will whiff on whom and the like.
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Dec 6, 2011 00:41
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PonchAxis posted:Afrocole had a thing going on last year called the Dojo sports league with larger sets but it ended up just not working out iirc. Yipes' Curly Mustache Invitational was 3/5 and it ended with Yipes nodding off on the mic.
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Dec 6, 2011 00:52
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Korean Starcraft players pretty much do play the game likes its a full time job and then more. I'm not really sure at one point a hobby you're really good at makes the jump to "my tedious job" but I'm guessing its somewhere around there.
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Dec 6, 2011 00:59
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SpaceBees posted:Korean Starcraft players pretty much do play the game likes its a full time job and then more. I'm not really sure at one point a hobby you're really good at makes the jump to "my tedious job" but I'm guessing its somewhere around there. Daigo trains 9 hours a day, 363 days a year. And that doesn't include the 2 hours he spends commuting to the arcade. Source: http://shoryuken.com/2011/11/01/srk-interview-with-daigo-ae2012-being-a-top-gamer-and-a-new-training-regimen/ http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2011/dec/01/roundup-daigo-plays-363-days-year-shadowloo-trailer-more/ He already trains like a korean starcraft pro. He is overall the best and wins more tournaments than anyone, but I think this is some proof that the edges you get in STREET FIGHTER 4 and MARVEL 3 aren't as big as in starcraft. This is all in context of spectators, who buy into the 'FRAUD' mentality every time he loses, which is quite a bit. I believe if this were CVS2, ST, or HF, that someone who trained like this could be untouchable by those who didn't. But that is just not the case in STREET FIGHTER 4 and MARVEL 3. 40 OZ fucked around with this message at 01:11 on Dec 6, 2011 |
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Dec 6, 2011 01:04
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Qanba preorders $140+shipping right now: http://eightarc.com/qanba-q4-white-red http://eightarc.com/qanba-q4-black
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Dec 6, 2011 01:08
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40 OZ posted:Daigo trains 9 hours a day, 363 days a year. And that doesn't include the 2 hours he spends commuting to the arcade.  Doesn't he have (or had) a full time job as well? I seem to recall reading somewhere that he works in an emergency room. How in the world does he fit everything in?
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Dec 6, 2011 01:11
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PunkBoy posted:
Not anymore, he is a full time pro-gamer now.
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Dec 6, 2011 01:12
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Who is the guy who wore the white SWAG shirt in sega font at NEC that keeps making references to thanking his based god and holding the phone up to mic and doin the hand thing. I've never seen him play ever, or contribute anything interesting to the commentary. Why does he exist.
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Dec 6, 2011 03:08
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Robolizard! posted:Who is the guy who wore the white SWAG shirt in sega font that keeps making references to thanking his based god and holding the phone up to mic and doin the hand thing. I've never seen him play ever, or contribute anything interesting to the commentary. Jaha, he has been in the community for a very long time. Swag and based god are references to lil b, a rapper. He says he likes lil B alot because music sucks now and lil B makes fun of current musical trends.
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Dec 6, 2011 03:08
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I wish he would stop being in the community for a very long time. edit Yes I am aware of loving little b. jaha was funny the first time I saw him but thats it! moron izzard fucked around with this message at 03:12 on Dec 6, 2011 |
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Dec 6, 2011 03:09
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Robolizard! posted:I wish he would stop being in the community for a very long time. He's awesome though.
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Dec 6, 2011 03:09
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I love Jaha's commentary. He can be a bully sometimes but he's one of the only people who will openly discuss ridiculousness that most commentators won't touch. And even if you feel terrible for laughing he is pretty loving hilarious. He is much more at home on the guard crush/big two streams which have a different flavor than is common in streams now. edit- I understand of course that his commentary is for a limited audience. Also, he insults alot of people and can be really offensive. 40 OZ fucked around with this message at 03:20 on Dec 6, 2011 |
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Dec 6, 2011 03:14
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I absolutely hate his commentary and have just stopped watching whenever he comes on the mic. He's just terrible.
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Dec 6, 2011 03:18
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Jaha is a really really bad commentator. Really REALLY bad.
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Dec 6, 2011 03:21
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What's with all the Jaha hate? The guy is hilarious. Case in point: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-L9QL0lE1ak&feature=related Team synergy!
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Dec 6, 2011 04:45
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Im 50 seconds in when does the funny start is it the part where he talks about a child sticking his dick in things or moron izzard fucked around with this message at 04:59 on Dec 6, 2011 |
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Dec 6, 2011 04:54
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Robolizard! posted:Im 50 seconds in when does the funny start OKay, you're right, he's not funny and I hope he dies.
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Dec 6, 2011 05:20
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Jaha can be funny in small amounts, but I get tired of him after a while. And that video with Winrich makes him sound like that uncle. I'm not even gonna do the whole "I'm offended" thing, because I love Chris Hu and the guy's offensive as all hell.
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Dec 6, 2011 05:26
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rivals posted:Qanba preorders $140+shipping right now: These sticks are so beautiful! Any reason why they're a little cheaper than the Fusions?
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Dec 6, 2011 05:38
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PonchAxis posted:Yeah they've tried this already and they used DOA and Virtua Fighter, followed by Tekken 6. And I think Brawl was a MLG game but honestly I have no idea. Whaaaa? Goodness, guess they're really desperate.
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Dec 6, 2011 06:13
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Schmendrick posted:These sticks are so beautiful! Any reason why they're a little cheaper than the Fusions? I think just the sale and the fact that it's a preorder. They are sister companies.
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Dec 6, 2011 06:32
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Dias posted:Jaha can be funny in small amounts, but I get tired of him after a while. And that video with Winrich makes him sound like that uncle. I'm not even gonna do the whole "I'm offended" thing, because I love Chris Hu and the guy's offensive as all hell. Chris Hu is even more offensive if you imagine that he can speak perfectly good English but fakes the accent for racist comedy value. I don't know if that would make me love him any more or less. I think by that point I'd have to build a little shrine to him in my room.
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