|
Groghammer posted:Managed to grab a PS3 stick. They're running out really quickly! Got lucky while on the wait list and grabbed a 360 one. I pretty much did blink and lose out on getting one when the sale first started.
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2012 15:42
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 28, 2024 04:27 |
|
|
AXE COP posted:"Don't start a chain with a move you've used before" seems pretty simple to me. Well, I hate to be that guy but maybe to a new person who doesn't know what a chain is the idea of somebody getting hit for less stun each times makes more sense?
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2012 15:57
|
|
|
inthesto posted:The more detailed answer to this is that for every good idea or opinion he has on game design, he has an equally bad one - most recent example: He thinks that hitstun and gravity scaling are more intuitive infinite protection systems than the one found in Skullgirls
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2012 16:00
|
|
.
|
Okay, so what defines the "start," "middle," or "end" of a HSD combo? What works? What makes the combo shorter? What are the rules? How long is the maximum combo?
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2012 16:05
|
|
|
Brett824 posted:Something being intuitive, by definition, is a personal and subjective thing. I can totally see how hitstun scaling is more intuitive because combo creation is basically "these things work at the start of the combo, these things work towards the middle, and these things only work at the end". Whereas in Skullgirls you have to be much more cognizant and reason with "wait, did I start a string with this move earlier when I was confirming from an awkward situation or recovering from mistiming something?"
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2012 16:07
|
|
|
Broken Loose posted:Okay, so what defines the "start," "middle," or "end" of a HSD combo? What works? What makes the combo shorter? What are the rules? How long is the maximum combo? That's what makes it intuitive rather than based on logic and reasoning? As time has gone on in MvC3, people have gotten much better internal understandings of how the system works and top players can now salvage combos that work within hitstun scaling from hit confirm situations they might have never seen before. And, when they fail to do this they usually can tell what caused the hitstun decay to take place more rapidly than usual. Brett824 fucked around with this message at 16:10 on Apr 25, 2012 |
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2012 16:08
|
|
|
Skullgirls combos are awesome because you can right them down on a piece of paper to see if they work.
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2012 16:09
|
|
|
Brett824 posted:That's what makes it intuitive rather than based on logic and reasoning? Intuitive means "Easy to use or understand." Therefore, for a system to be "more intuitive" than another system that operates on a single, clearly defined rule (with 2 clearly defined exceptions), it would most certainly have to have logic or reasoning behind it!
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2012 16:10
|
|
|
Broken Loose posted:Intuitive means "Easy to use or understand." Therefore, for a system to be "more intuitive" than another system that operates on a single, clearly defined rule (with 2 clearly defined exceptions), it would most certainly have to have logic or reasoning behind it! Interpreting intuitive as simply "Easy to use or understand", especially in this case, is a fairly narrow interpretation of what the word means or has ever meant.
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2012 16:13
|
|
|
MvC2 for iOS systems is out now for $2.99 (until May 6th, when it goes $4.99) 
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2012 16:44
|
|
|
kaujot posted:MvC2 for iOS systems is out now for $2.99 (until May 6th, when it goes $4.99)
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2012 16:53
|
|
|
Brett824 posted:That's what makes it intuitive rather than based on logic and reasoning? As time has gone on in MvC3, people have gotten much better internal understandings of how the system works and top players can now salvage combos that work within hitstun scaling from hit confirm situations they might have never seen before. And, when they fail to do this they usually can tell what caused the hitstun decay to take place more rapidly than usual. When you drop that weird confirm combo in Marvel though you have to try and guess if you hosed up the excution or it simply doesn't work and they flip out. Some moves get hit harder by HSD than others and there's no real consistent logic behind it. You could try messing around with tweaking a combo for a long time in training mode and never be quite sure if it works and you need to up your execution or it doesn't and you need to go back to the drawing board. In IPS, once you learn the general properties of moves and character weights you can make up fully functioning combos before even stepping into training mode. I can't see how attacks having inconsistent properties is more intuitive a system than one where every attack always works the same way. This is not to say every game should have IPS, or that its the best combo system even, but knowing what works at what doesn't is more intuitive than just abotu any other game of its kind.
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2012 17:01
|
|
|
In one system, your moves have different properties throughout the combo to the point where something that works near the beginning may not work near the middle or at the end. In some cases of the system, this can change dramatically based on the move you start the combo with! There are no hard and fast rules and the only way you'd be able to figure out a combo is to actually go through and try it. And if it doesn't work, it's difficult to figure out exactly what might make it work (again, because of the lack of hard rules on it). In the other, it's completely consistent to the point where you can read a combo on paper and be able to know whether it works or not (for lack of a better word) intuitively. I don't really see where your argument lies - other than that perhaps you don't actually know what 'intuitive' means, Brett. Saying it's opposed to 'logic and reasoning' certainly implies it at least.
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2012 17:22
|
|
|
All I know is it's nice to be able to practice the end of a combo without having to do the whole combo every time.
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2012 17:26
|
|
|
Question Mark Mound posted:It's gonna be unplayable but damnit I'm buying it anyway. You'll still find combo videos online of some Chinese player who can manage to do all-character combos.
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2012 18:24
|
|
|
Gravity scaling is more intuitive (in that it's really obvious what's happening when it stops your combo) but the IPS system is more human-readable; instead of relying on hidden numbers to tell when a combo is no longer valid it's based on very concrete, clearly defined cut-off points. The former is better if you want a game where you can figure out the basics without studying (who cares), the latter is better if you want a game where studying it and building combos is easier and more rewarding (actually important.)
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2012 20:21
|
|
|
Tuxedo Catfish posted:The former is better if you want a game where you can figure out the basics without studying (who cares), the latter is better if you want a game where studying it and building combos is easier and more rewarding (actually important.) The intuitiveness of a game's combo system has a lot more to it than just how the game specifically handles preventing the possibility of infinites. I don't know what you are trying to call "basics" here, but you can have games without ANY specific IPS that have brutally hard basic combos, and you can have games with really complicated and confusing IPSs that have extremely easy basic combos. And for that matter, how is an easier system more "rewarding"? How do you even define what is rewarding to a player? I find the Skullgirls system far less rewarding than a system like GG's. I'm not going to claim a super complicated system like GG is what everyone likes, but you can't just rigidly define something as being "more rewarding" because it's easier and more intuitive.
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2012 22:20
|
|
|
Gwyrgyn Blood posted:The intuitiveness of a game's combo system has a lot more to it than just how the game specifically handles preventing the possibility of infinites. I don't know what you are trying to call "basics" here, but you can have games without ANY specific IPS that have brutally hard basic combos, and you can have games with really complicated and confusing IPSs that have extremely easy basic combos. I'm not talking about execution at all, just the process of figuring out what combos are possible. If you screw around in training mode in GG you can tell in a matter of minutes that gravity scaling exists and roughly how it works without ever having heard of it before, just by watching what happens if you launch the dummy over and over. An IPS system like Skullgirls' would seem totally random and confusing unless it were explained to you (or if you're some kind of pattern recognition wunderkind, I guess.) Gwyrgyn Blood posted:And for that matter, how is an easier system more "rewarding"? How do you even define what is rewarding to a player? I find the Skullgirls system far less rewarding than a system like GG's. I'm not going to claim a super complicated system like GG is what everyone likes, but you can't just rigidly define something as being "more rewarding" because it's easier and more intuitive. If you have a combo system where you can predict what will happen with less trial and error, it takes less time to develop and discover new combos. Less time invested for more knowledge = more rewarding. (At least until optimized combos are discovered, but that's something else.) You seem to think that I'm talking about the entire system, and I'm sorry if I gave that impression. I'm just responding to Sirlin's idea that "gravity scaling is more intuitive than IPS" by saying that I agree, but it doesn't matter. I'm talking about those mechanics without the context of a complete game. Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 23:49 on Apr 25, 2012 |
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2012 23:25
|
|
|
interrodactyl posted:
this is tonight you fuckers
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2012 23:43
|
|
|
In fewer words: gravity scaling and IPS are both designed as soft limits on the length of combos. Gravity scaling is a simpler abstract idea ("the more you hit a guy, the faster he falls") but it's not possible for an unaided human being to know exactly when gravity scaling is going to make a combo impossible*. It's intuitive but not easy to work with. IPS is the opposite of that. It takes a few rules and a bunch of exceptions to explain how it works, but the rules are big granular limits that either kick in or don't at a given point in a combo. This is easier for an informed player to work with without (necessarily) a corresponding loss of depth. *Until you check, but this whole conversation assumes you're talking about games where everything hasn't been mapped out yet. Once they have none of this matters anyways. Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 00:20 on Apr 26, 2012 |
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2012 00:17
|
|
|
Tuxedo Catfish posted:*Until you check, but this whole conversation assumes you're talking about games where everything hasn't been mapped out yet. Once they have none of this matters anyways. The problem is that most games which alter the physics affecting your opponent haven't been mapped out, or if they have it's not to the degree which you can actually explain or write down (as in, "X-23's standing jab will remove 17% of potential hitstun from future moves performed in the combo, every aerial normal induces an extra 6 pixels/frame falling speed increase in MSF, etc").
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2012 00:35
|
|
|
Skullgirls is the only game where I've ever felt like I can make combos on the fly, every other game I've played I have no idea what's going to work.
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2012 00:40
|
|
|
  Ghostpilot is the King of Fighters, truly. Next week is  SFA3!!  (fullsize the art it owns) Signup: http://challonge.com/tournaments/signup/vtbmy678p6 Point Totals: http://goo.gl/JzKXR Okay so there's also a new rule ALSO NEW RULE: PUT THE NUMBER OF GOONBAT POINTS YOU HAVE IN FRONT OF YOUR NAME interrodactyl fucked around with this message at 06:45 on Apr 26, 2012 |
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2012 05:19
|
|
|
Pretty image incoming!
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2012 05:55
|
|
|
kaujot posted:MvC2 for iOS systems is out now for $2.99 (until May 6th, when it goes $4.99) This for Mystery Game at EVO
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2012 12:52
|
|
|
Does anyone know how to do hypers in the iOS MvC2? I mean, I can do them with the control scheme that has 2x punch and 2x kick buttons, but I can't figure out how to do them with the 1x punch and 1x kick buttons.
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2012 14:01
|
|
|
kaujot posted:Does anyone know how to do hypers in the iOS MvC2? I mean, I can do them with the control scheme that has 2x punch and 2x kick buttons, but I can't figure out how to do them with the 1x punch and 1x kick buttons. Send me a couple hundred bucks and then throw away your iPhone because you are incapable of making financially responsible decisions.
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2012 14:21
|
|
|
Broken Loose posted:Send me a couple hundred bucks and then throw away your iPhone because you are incapable of making financially responsible decisions. I bought it solely to gently caress around with. Jesus.
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2012 14:26
|
|
|
It's ok I bought Blazblue on the Vita I'm worse at money
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2012 14:28
|
|
|
THE AWESOME GHOST posted:It's ok I bought Blazblue Fixed for me personally
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2012 14:31
|
|
|
Broken Loose posted:Send me a couple hundred bucks and then throw away your iPhone because you are incapable of making financially responsible decisions. When I woke up this morning, I was really hoping the "is this game worth the amount of money it costs to get a coffee from a 7-11" chat would leak from the iOS game thread to this one.
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2012 14:38
|
|
|
Broken Loose posted:Send me a couple hundred bucks and then throw away your iPhone because you are incapable of making financially responsible decisions. Who are you to say he regularly buys apps? Now that I think about it, even most people who are not inept or unemployed could buy a lot of apps... just spitballin' here. Not everyone works at urban outfitters or whatever. The Balance Niggy fucked around with this message at 15:03 on Apr 26, 2012 |
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2012 14:41
|
|
|
I love when cheap people talk about app purchasing. A DOLLAR?!?!
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2012 14:58
|
|
|
Broken Loose posted:The problem is that most games which alter the physics affecting your opponent haven't been mapped out, or if they have it's not to the degree which you can actually explain or write down (as in, "X-23's standing jab will remove 17% of potential hitstun from future moves performed in the combo, every aerial normal induces an extra 6 pixels/frame falling speed increase in MSF, etc"). Iirc, the whole thing was: Moves on the ground remove 5 frames of hitstun per hit and 1 hit of air-hitstun. Once you've launched an opponent, all moves remove 5 frames of hitstun. The only exceptions would be launcher and certain specials that had a mandatory minimum hitstun, which currently I think it dr strange's impact palm, hawkeye's poison tip, deadpool's quick work, Pretty much all of zero's specials, and a few others. Note that one of the changes from vanilla to ultimate was removing that minimum from akuma's tatsu, which is why its no longer a "hard" infinite. I'm not sure about this gravity scaling, I've never seen it in action. Is that in mvc3? So in short: you can use light moves all you want, but eventually you wont be able to cancel a light move into a medium move before hitstun evaporates. Ditto with mediums and heavies. EDIT: Thats why you can link in a jam session with zero while the opponent is on the ground but not in the air and get a full combo out of it. EDIT2: Shut up Broken Loose Wozbo fucked around with this message at 15:07 on Apr 26, 2012 |
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2012 15:02
|
|
|
The Dave posted:I love when cheap people talk about app purchasing. A DOLLAR?!?! It's not really a "cheap" thing so much as it's a poo poo port with poo poo controls and purchasing it encourages Capcom to keep doing exactly what they've been doing. It's like all those people who preordered SFxT premium edition for the extra gems.
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2012 15:17
|
|
|
Who even buys App ports. They're almost always horrible.
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2012 15:24
|
|
|
Broken Loose posted:It's not really a "cheap" thing so much as it's a poo poo port with poo poo controls and purchasing it encourages Capcom to keep doing exactly what they've been doing. It's like all those people who preordered SFxT premium edition for the extra gems. Nah it's $3 and you're cheap, sorry. EDIT: That was also a lovely simile, mobile ports vs. nickle and dime dlc. The Dave fucked around with this message at 15:46 on Apr 26, 2012 |
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2012 15:34
|
|
|
I got my £1.99 worth of "what the gently caress is this, this is hilarious" out of the app, so I'm happy.
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2012 15:45
|
|
|
I think the best part is it's the old ps2 // dreamcast unlock system. Gonna leave my iphone on in training mode all night guys
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2012 15:49
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 28, 2024 04:27 |
|
|
Elephunk posted:I think the best part is it's the old ps2 // dreamcast unlock system. I'm pretty sure the Marvel unlock system is the reason my Dreamcast died so early. 
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2012 15:57
|
|