Middle East Thread of Despair: More Broken Than Syria

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Middle East Thread of Despair: More Broken Than Syria

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Brown Moses: Feb 22, 2002

Here's a good piece that seems to show that the Syrian government has lost control of Idlib city and parts of the surrounding region, In northern Syria, rebels now control many towns and villages.

Paul Danahar of the BBC has now also reached Qubair, and has been tweeting what he's seeing

quote:

We are here. In front of a burnt out building is carcass of a donkey inside the buildings are gutted. The UN have not found any people yet

The roads are so rocky our car is having trouble climbing them

We went down into a valley & we've headed up towards a handful of small squat buildings. One seems to have a hole blown out by an RPG

We are now driving down into the village of Qubier snaking along small deserted dirt roads #Syria

We went down into a valley & we've headed up towards a handful of small squat buildings. One seems to have a hole blown out by an RPG

The roads are so rocky our car is having trouble climbing them

We are here. In front of a burnt out building is carcass of a donkey inside the buildings are gutted. The UN have not found any people yet

In front of me there is a piece of brain, in the corner there is a mass on congealed blood. This is a house in Qubeir #Syria

Paul Danahar �@pdanahar
The largest of the two houses on the hill top in Qubeir has been gutted by fire. The stench of burnt flesh is still strong

# ? Jun 8, 2012 14:46

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# ? Apr 29, 2024 00:24

Brown Moses: Feb 22, 2002

This extermely disturbing and graphic video has been posted online :nms:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mS_vjw1jo9c
It appears to show soldiers doing some pretty terrible things to detainees, several people are trying to get more information about the video, and figure out where it was filmed, and what is being said in the video.

# ? Jun 8, 2012 15:10

Brown Moses: Feb 22, 2002

Here's more from Paul Danahar

quote:

We are hurtling through deserted towns on our way to Damascus. The driver is scared. When we entered some areas he puts his foot down #Syria
Occasionally i've seen a burnt out vehicle or a fortified bridge. The sun is going down & what I haven't seen is people
"We've got to cross this dangerous areas we must go fast" the driver says.
But we have to stop there's a checkpoint and we are being waved down
These guys are fine, we've been let through

The flies found the evidence of the Qubier massacre before UN got there. They buzzed & swooped around what remained of the tiny community
The first house had been gutted by fire but the stench of burnt flesh still hung heavy in the air. The scene in next house was even worse.
Blood was in pools around the room. Pieces of flesh lay among the scattered possession.
Butchering the people didn't satisfy the blood lust of the attackers so they killed the live stock too. Their carcasses rotting in the sun
The only clue to where the bodies of the people may have gone are etched into the road. UN said they were tracks made by military vehicles
Who ever did this may have acted with mindless violence but attempts to cover up the detaills of the atrocity are calculated & clear #Syria

# ? Jun 8, 2012 16:28

Sivias: Dec 12, 2006; I think we can just sit around and just talk about our feelings.

Small arms fighting in the capitol.

Al Jazeera posted:

Fierce gunfights between security forces and rebels have broken out on the streets of a neighbourhood in the Syrian capital, Damascus, residents said, as government troops battled to take back the rebel bastion of Khaldiyeh in the central city of Homs.

Residents of Damascus' Mezze district said they were hiding in their homes on Friday as gunfire crackled outside.

"The gunfire is so loud; I think some bullets could have hit the house. I'm afraid to go outside to see what is happening," one resident said.

Activists and Syrian state television said a car bomb exploded in the Qadsiya suburb of Damascus, killing at least two members of the security forces.

Syrian TV blamed the bomb on "terrorists," using the term it frequently uses to describe rebels fighting forces loyal to President Bashar al-Assad

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2012/06/20126817510357285.html

# ? Jun 8, 2012 20:18

az jan jananam: Sep 6, 2011; HI, I'M HARDCORE SAX HERE TO DROP A NICE JUICY TURD OF A POST FROM UP ON HIGH

There was a march in Cairo today in protest against sexual harassment that is pervasive in Egypt.

The marchers were harassed by men which turned into clashes. The women fled.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCCT_QPh654&feature=youtube_gdata_player

# ? Jun 8, 2012 21:53

Xandu: Feb 19, 2006; It's hard to be humble when you're as great as I am.

Sivias posted:

Small arms fighting in the capitol.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2012/06/20126817510357285.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GF5nrky5AYo

al-Qaboun isn't that far from the center of Damascus.

# ? Jun 8, 2012 22:42

Brown Moses: Feb 22, 2002

I've put together a blog post with the evidence gathered from Qubair by the UN and press who visited there today, which you can read here.

Brown Moses fucked around with this message at 23:29 on Jun 8, 2012

# ? Jun 8, 2012 23:27

Sivias: Dec 12, 2006; I think we can just sit around and just talk about our feelings.

Xandu posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GF5nrky5AYo

I'm not one to normally call bullshit, but that video seems really staged. It's quiet for the first 3 seconds, then you hear a click, and the gunfire starts. Some shuffling like he's turning a recording up and then gets louder.
The rest of his videos don't have any of the same feel of lacking in authenticity.

# ? Jun 9, 2012 00:55

Brown Moses: Feb 22, 2002

Either the NTC or ICC have just embarassed themselves

quote:

Libya detains International Criminal Court lawyer over documents

The International Criminal Court demanded Saturday the immediate release of a lawyer and three other staff members who were detained while visiting the son of deposed Libyan dictator Moammar Gadhafi.

Defense lawyer Melinda Taylor was detained in the city of Zintan after she was discovered carrying documents and letters Libyan authorities said jeopardizes Libyan national security, said Ahmed Gehani, a Libyan lawyer who serves as a liaison with the criminal court in The Hague, Netherlands.

He said guards first confiscated a camera pen on Taylor and allowed her to go in to interview Saif al-Islam Gadhafi, who was captured in hiding last November.

A later search by female guards found documents and letters written by former regime members, Gehani said. They included a letter from Mohammed Ismail, Saif Gadhafi's former right-hand man.

Taylor was also carrying three blank papers signed by Saif Gadhafi, Gehani said.

Taylor is not in jail, but was placed under house arrest in Zintan, along with a translator. Gehani said Libyan authorities are looking into whether she was spying and communicating with the enemy.

The two other court members from the registry office were free to go but chose to remain with Taylor and the translator.

Gehani said a criminal court delegation is scheduled to arrive in Tripoli Sunday to try and resolve the situation.

Judge Sang-Hyun Song, the president of the criminal court, said the staffers have immunity while traveling on an official court mission.

"We are very concerned about the safety of our staff in the absence of any contact with them," he said.

Court spokesman Fadi El Abdallah said the court has had no contact with the four staff members. Nor has it received any official information from the Libyans as to why they were detained.

"We lost contact with them on Thursday, and since then we have had no opportunity to clarify the reasons for their detention," Abdallah said.

"When we got a hold of the Libyan authorities they only said that they would be released soon, but they didn't say the reason for why they had been detained," he said.

Both the International Criminal Court and Libya's new authorities want to put Saif Gadhafi on trial.

The criminal court has demanded that Libya hand him over immediately to face accusations of crimes against humanity. Libya appealed the decision, saying that he should be tried at home.

The criminal court issued an arrest warrant for Saif Gadhafi on charges of crimes against humanity. He stands accused of having a role in the deaths of Libyans who protested his father's 42 years of dictatorship.

Taylor and lawyer Xavier-Jean Keita said in April that Saif Gadhafi has been mistreated and "physically attacked" since his capture.

In a strongly worded statement, the lawyers described Gadhafi as being in a legal black hole, held in total isolation except for visits from officials. He also suffers dental pain because he hasn't had treatment, and Libyan authorities have given him nothing to remedy the pain, the lawyers said.

# ? Jun 9, 2012 20:49

Xandu: Feb 19, 2006; It's hard to be humble when you're as great as I am.

This will hopefully appeal to some minority groups in Syria
http://www.trust.org/alertnet/news/syrian-national-council-elects-kurd-its-new-leader/

quote:

(Adds details, quotes)

ISTANBUL, June 10 (Reuters) - The main Syrian opposition umbrella group, the Syrian National Council, elected Kurdish activist Abdelbasset Sida as its leader at a meeting in Istanbul on Sunday, a council statement said.

Sida, who has been living in exile in Sweden for many years, was the only candidate for the presidency of the SNC at a meeting of 33 members of the councils' general secretariat.

The 56-year-old succeeds Burhan Ghalioun, a liberal opposition figure who had presided over the council since it was formed in August last year.

Sida said his priority would be to expand the council and hold talks with other opposition figures to include them in the council, which some have accused of being dominated by Islamists.

"The main task now is to reform the council and re-structure it," Sida told Reuters. (Reporting by Marian Karouny and Khaled Yacoub Oweis, Amman newsroom; Editing by Jon Hemming)

# ? Jun 10, 2012 02:16

Mc Do Well: Aug 2, 2008; by FactsAreUseless

I have mixed feelings about expat groups taking power. Can they really claim popular sovereignty or is their authority derived from outside powers?

# ? Jun 10, 2012 02:19

Abilifier: Apr 8, 2008

McDowell posted:

I have mixed feelings about expat groups taking power. Can they really claim popular sovereignty or is their authority derived from outside powers?

It seems to be mostly exiles trying to form a new government. From what I've read the Syrian National Council doesn't seem to have much say in what is actually going on in the opposition movement, and definitely not in the FSA.

# ? Jun 10, 2012 02:42

sum: Nov 15, 2010

Xandu posted:

This will hopefully appeal to some minority groups in Syria
http://www.trust.org/alertnet/news/syrian-national-council-elects-kurd-its-new-leader/

There's no way that Turkey is going to keep tolerating them if all of a sudden the SNC's platform also includes Kurdish activism.

# ? Jun 10, 2012 03:09

Brown Moses: Feb 22, 2002

VVVVVVVVV Whoops, thanks for pointing that out VVVVVVVVV

Brown Moses fucked around with this message at 19:45 on Jun 10, 2012

# ? Jun 10, 2012 13:15

Abilifier: Apr 8, 2008

That was pretty interesting, but I think you may have posted it in the wrong thread.

# ? Jun 10, 2012 15:24

reagan: Apr 29, 2008; by Lowtax

suboptimal posted:

This is the most dramatic tank explosion I've ever seen:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1u_tivK6W_o

I think this deserves to be on a new page. That was quite a thing. Turret gets hit by RPG -> rounds in turret explode (?) -> tank begins accelerating like crazy in part due to the poo poo cooking off inside (note the smoke pouring out of the barrel) -> and tank explodes when the fire reaches the lovely Soviet era ammo compartment.

Any tanker guys have a better explanation? That was insane.

# ? Jun 10, 2012 17:31

farraday: Jan 10, 2007; Lower those eyebrows, young man. And the other one.

HoveringCheesecake posted:

I think this deserves to be on a new page. That was quite a thing. Turret gets hit by RPG -> rounds in turret explode (?) -> tank begins accelerating like crazy in part due to the poo poo cooking off inside (note the smoke pouring out of the barrel) -> and tank explodes when the fire reaches the lovely Soviet era ammo compartment.

Any tanker guys have a better explanation? That was insane.

Not a tanker guy I think it may have been fuel cooking off before the explosion. It looks like a flame thrower for a bit and that's not something I'd normally associate with ammo cooking off.

In any case this is a fairly vivid depiction of something that we mentioned a year ago around the time Libya was really starting. Tanks are not an "I win" button in urban warfare. There are a lot of cheap anti tank weapons or jury rigged explosives that can and will seriously mess up a tank . the trick is always getting close enough, and in urban warfare where ranges drop precipitously, tanks can get seriously hosed up by determined guerrillas.

This is why you see a lot of tanks being used as short range artillery, pulling up outside a town and lobbing shells in indiscriminately. At short ranges tanks can be blown up, disabled, or simply over run with depressing regularity.

# ? Jun 10, 2012 18:11

Fangz: Jul 5, 2007; Oh I see! This must be the Bad Opinion Zone!

I don't think there's any mechanical means to make the tank accelerate. The driver presumeably put his foot down the moment he realised he's been hit, in a vain effort to get away.

Look at this Panther kill:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90vnW1UR5hY

Ammo being burnt basically looks like this. Presumeably the ammo in the turret burns first (this is where the hit apparently occurred). Eventually the fire spreads to the main ammo stores in the hull, and then boom.

Fangz fucked around with this message at 18:31 on Jun 10, 2012

# ? Jun 10, 2012 18:24

reagan: Apr 29, 2008; by Lowtax

Fangz posted:

I don't think there's any mechanical means to make the tank accelerate. The driver presumeably put his foot down the moment he realised he's been hit, in a vain effort to get away.

Look at this Panther kill:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90vnW1UR5hY

Ammo being burnt basically looks like this. Presumeably the ammo in the turret burns first (this is where the hit apparently occurred). Eventually the fire spreads to the main ammo stores in the hull, and then boom.

I don't understand what you mean by mechanical means. You mean the smoke pouring out of the barrel that I mentioned? I just thought that might have imparted a little extra bit of acceleration since, as you said, the driver probably floored it when they realized what happened.

As for the video, yes I've seen it many times. In fact I think we discussed it in one of Grey Hunter's threads at some point?

Anyway, I don't want to drag this too far into a "how does tank blow up?" discussion. I watched that lovely video of the soldiers taping their war crimes that was posted in the thread. Always a good decision. Glad they were laughing and having a grand old time, though! :stare:

# ? Jun 10, 2012 18:42

Xandu: Feb 19, 2006; It's hard to be humble when you're as great as I am.

There were lots of reports of Mubarak dying yesterday, but it appears he's just in critical condition.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gnQTw3Y0XUYS1IlxiR6qLBGTpk3w?docId=86b42558b5674b80b11167396ad223f1 posted:

Hosni Mubarak is slipping in and out of consciousness eight days after the ousted Egyptian leader was sent to prison to begin serving a life sentence, a security official said on Sunday.

With rumors of the former president's death spreading rapidly, authorities granted his wife, former first lady Suzanne Mubarak, and the couple's two daughters-in-law special permission to visit him in Cairo's Torah prison early that morning.

"The former president's health is in decline, but now it's stable in its deteriorated state," the official said. Since his wife's visit, Mubarak has suffered from an irregular heartbeat and required assistance in breathing.
The official told The Associated Press that the former president now lives only on liquids and yogurt. He spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak to the media.

Mubarak's health is reported to have collapsed since his June 2 conviction for failing to stop the killing of protesters during the uprising that overthrew him in 2011. His life sentence saw him transferred immediately to a prison hospital, instead of the military hospital and other facilities where he had been held since his April 2011 arrest.

Authorities have turned down several requests by Mubarak's family to transfer the ousted president back to a military facility, the official said.

On Saturday Mubarak's wife was denied access to the Intensive Care Unit where he was placed, as authorities limit family visitations to one a month.

According to security officials quoted by al-Masry al-Youm daily, Mrs. Mubarak lashed out at wardens for not giving her husband permission to seek treatment outside the prison. "You will be responsible for his death," she allegedly said.

Mubarak's two sons Alaa and Gamal are also being held. They were acquitted on June 2 of corruption charges, but still face separate charges of insider trading.

On Saturday, Egypt's state run news agency MENA quoted officials as saying that Mubarak is at risk of stroke, quoting a medical team's report.

Other media reports said that his lawyer Farid al-Deeb informed him that he will soon be transferred back to a military facility in the Cairo suburb of Maadi.

In his last public appearance on June 2, the bedridden Mubarak sat stoned-faced in the courtroom cage. However, officials said that he broke into tears when he learnt that he will be transferred to Torah prison. It took officials hours to convince Mubarak to leave the helicopter that ferried him from the courthouse to the prison.

Media reports quoted Mubarak at the time as saying the military council who took over after his ouster had deceived him. "Egypt has sold me. They want me to die here," he reportedly said.

The verdict sparked a new wave of protests by tens of thousands of Egyptians who allege the verdict was determined by political pressure from the country's military rulers, doing a favor for their former president.
They say the verdict as issued can be easily overturned in an appeal, and that the acquittals of six top security officials mean that killers of the protesters will remain unknown. Many hoped Mubarak or his top officials would be convicted of murder and receive the death penalty.

Part of me wonders if this isn't just an attempt to get him transferred out of Tora, though. There were lots of reports before his conviction of him being in good shape, but still choosing to appear in court in a hospital bed.

# ? Jun 10, 2012 22:04

Brown Moses: Feb 22, 2002

There were reports today that a missile battalion near Homs defected, and gave the FSA plenty of time to loot their base before it was blown to pieces by Assad's artillery. I've put together a post about it here. It might be significant as it appears they got their hands on Shilkas, which might counter the helicopters being used against the FSA in certain areas.

# ? Jun 10, 2012 22:15

Xandu: Feb 19, 2006; It's hard to be humble when you're as great as I am.

Ghassan ben Jeddo, who quit al-Jazeera last year over its coverage of Syria is launching a new satellite channel in Beirut tomororw called al Mayadeen, which promises to be unbiased in its coverage. It's not transparently funded and it's "point of reference" is Palestine and resistance movements though, so it remains to be seen just how unbiased it is. Still, more competition is good and at least one of the reporters working there has done good work.

http://english.al-akhbar.com/content/al-mayadeen-tv-new-kid-block

# ? Jun 10, 2012 22:30

pantslesswithwolves: Oct 28, 2008; Ba-dam ba-DUMMMMMM

Xandu posted:

Part of me wonders if this isn't just an attempt to get him transferred out of Tora, though. There were lots of reports before his conviction of him being in good shape, but still choosing to appear in court in a hospital bed.

I'm pretty sure his "life sentence" is going to be him spending his final days in a "hospital room" that's more akin to a luxury apartment than a medical facility.

# ? Jun 10, 2012 22:48

Brown Moses: Feb 22, 2002

Couple of videos from the FSA showing the results of their extrajudicial executions, first a Syrian army colonel they accused of murder, robbery, abducting woman and forcing other soldiers to shoot on civilians.

The second is an alleged shabiha they stored in a deep freezer, and looks like they shot him in the forehead.

# ? Jun 10, 2012 22:49

FeculentWizardTits: Aug 31, 2001

HoveringCheesecake posted:

I think this deserves to be on a new page. That was quite a thing. Turret gets hit by RPG -> rounds in turret explode (?) -> tank begins accelerating like crazy in part due to the poo poo cooking off inside (note the smoke pouring out of the barrel) -> and tank explodes when the fire reaches the lovely Soviet era ammo compartment.

Any tanker guys have a better explanation? That was insane.

It's difficult to tell based on the quality of the video, but the vehicle looks like a BMP rather than a tank (the title of the video also labels it as such but omits any model number). I've only peered inside a BMP once or twice but if I remember right they pretty much store all of the ammo in a ring around the inside of the turret, not in any special compartment like you'd see on a modern tank. It's definitely the ammo cooking off initially, followed by the gas tank(s?) if I had to guess. I used to be a tank crewman, but they never really told us what it would look like when we got blown the gently caress up.

The videos of the women protesting the sexual harassment in Egypt are a drat shame. I really hope they're able to affect some manner of change, because the amount of harassment women get there is beyond belief.

FeculentWizardTits fucked around with this message at 02:27 on Jun 11, 2012

# ? Jun 11, 2012 02:23

reagan: Apr 29, 2008; by Lowtax

Spakstik posted:

It's difficult to tell based on the quality of the video, but the vehicle looks like a BMP rather than a tank (the title of the video also labels it as such but omits any model number). I've only peered inside a BMP once or twice but if I remember right they pretty much store all of the ammo in a ring around the inside of the turret, not in any special compartment like you'd see on a modern tank. It's definitely the ammo cooking off initially, followed by the gas tank(s?) if I had to guess. I used to be a tank crewman, but they never really told us what it would look like when we got blown the gently caress up.

Not to get too far off topic, but that looks like a MBT to me. T-72 or something similar.

# ? Jun 11, 2012 03:29

Jarmak: Jan 24, 2005

HoveringCheesecake posted:

Not to get too far off topic, but that looks like a MBT to me. T-72 or something similar.

No, its not even an IFV, its a troop transport BTR-60

edit: or maybe not, since the BTR-60 isn't tracked, hull loooks exactly like one though, seems too narrow to by a BMP, no chance its a MBT

edit2: it must be the angle, that turret is too large for it to be anything but a BMP, probably a 3

Jarmak fucked around with this message at 07:05 on Jun 11, 2012

# ? Jun 11, 2012 06:57

Brown Moses: Feb 22, 2002

Lots of reports of Mubarak being in a coma, and his heart stopping only to be resuscitated twice, might be the final curtain for him.

# ? Jun 11, 2012 13:29

midnightclimax: Dec 3, 2011; by XyloJW

Just read an article on Syria, where the journalist mentioned popular uprisings in 2000 and 2001. Anyone know what that was about? He didn't really elaborate, and I don't remember anything. A few demos and then it fizzled out?

# ? Jun 11, 2012 13:46

az jan jananam: Sep 6, 2011; HI, I'M HARDCORE SAX HERE TO DROP A NICE JUICY TURD OF A POST FROM UP ON HIGH

midnightclimax posted:

Just read an article on Syria, where the journalist mentioned popular uprisings in 2000 and 2001. Anyone know what that was about? He didn't really elaborate, and I don't remember anything. A few demos and then it fizzled out?

After Hafez al-Assad died there was a period of civil opening where people had hope that Bashar would open up Syria to democracy; a similar thing happened after Mubarak took power. It was crushed after it was deemed that it got too out of hand.

The Syrian Opposition in the Making: Capabilities and Limits
Ufuk Ulutas. Insight Turkey. Ankara: 2011. Vol. 13, Iss. 3; pg. 87, 19 pgs

quote:

The Anatomy of the Syrian Opposition

In authoritarian regimes, opposition movements' existence and scope of activity is constrained by the state, and Syria is no exception to this. Although opposition in different forms has always existed in Syria and among the Syrian diaspora, their political activities have been quite limited, and Syrian prisons have always hosted opposition figures. As the Hama massacre of 1982 illustrates, the regime can turn violent if it perceives that an existential threat is coming from the opposition.3 Many Syrians and foreign observers expected a change would take place when Bashar came to power in 2000.4 As a matter of fact, the early days of Bashar s rule passed with high expectations, some of which was responded positively by the regime. One of the first actions that Bashar took when he came to power was to close down the infamous Mazzah prison, which had been a symbol of regime's brutality for political prisoners. According to Human Rights Watch, there were around 4,000 political prisoners in the country; Bashar brought this number downto300-l,000.5

From the death of Hafez al-Assad until the summer of 2001 a period of intense political and intellectual debate took place in Syria. During this period, sometimes referred to as the Damascus Spring, political activists and intellectuals from all walks of life voiced their ideas for change publicly, and formed civil society organizations and muntadat,6 such as the Jamal al- Atassi National Dialogue Forum and the Riad Seif Forum, to host lively debates. In September 2000, the Syrian opposition published the "Manifesto of the 99", followed in December by the "Manifesto of the 1,000". The "Manifesto of the 99" was the first public manifestation of the Damascus Spring calling for administrative, economic and legal reforms. With the "Manifesto of the 1,000," a follow up to the "Manifesto of the 99," the oppositions rhetoric got harsher. While the "Manifesto of the 99" aimed at neither Bashar nor the Baath Party directly, the "Manifesto of the 1,000" called for the abolition of one -party rule.7 Renowned writers and intellectuals, such as Michel Kilo, Burhan Ghalyoun, and Sadiq Jalal al-Azm, played crucial roles in drafting both manifestos.

The "Manifesto of the 1,000" became a turning point in the short-lived Damascus Spring, and its unprecedented calls for multi-party system and reforms triggered a harsh reaction from the government, resulting in the arrest of eight leading opposition figures, including Riad Saif, Mamun al-Homsi, Riad al-Turk and Aref Dalilah.8 The government took other steps to bring an end to opposition activities: it began shutting down the muntadat, suspended the publication of opposition newspapers such as al-Dommari, and arrested several leaders of prominent civil society organizations.9 It is worth noting that Abduihalim Khaddam, who is now an opposition figure himself, was crucial in suppressing the opposition and turning the Damascus Spring into the Damascus Winter.

Although the Damascus Spring was unsuccessful in bringing aboutthe change it had originally proposed, it still succeeded in terms of bringing the opposition together and voicing their demands in manifestos. The opposition criticized some of regime's pillars, such as the Ba'ath Party, for the first time since the 1970s, and demands for reforms were placed at the center of the political discourse in Syria. Still, the opposition was far from forming a unified front against the regime due to their ideological differences and their positions regarding the Kurdish question, foreign support and other issues.

The assassination of former Lebanese Prime Minister Rafiq al-Hariri and the Syrian withdrawal from Lebanon also created an atmosphere resembling the Damascus Spring. In the spring of 2005, Arabs and Kurds established the National Coordination Committee for the Defense of Basic Freedoms and Human Rights to spark a widespread dialogue among different segments of Syrian society. In April ofthat year, the Committee for the Revival of Civil Society, one of the biggest opposition platforms, released a document calling for dialogue between various opposition groups, including the Muslim Brotherhood. In June at the al-Atassi Forum, Ali Abdullah, a prominent writer, read a letter by the General Secretary of the Muslim Brotherhood Ali Beyanuni, and through the work of several leading opposition figures, including Beyanuni and Riad el-Turk, the groundwork for national dialogue was formed.

The result of the dialogue was the publication of the Damascus Declaration in October 2005.The declaration was prepared by several figures, most prominently the ex-Communist al-Turk, Beyanuni and the Christian writer Michel Kilo, and set out four main principles: pluralism, non-violence, unity among the opposition, and democratic change.10 A committee was established to coordinate future efforts to achieve the goals set by the declaration. The declaration was signed by five political parties and nine prominent intellectuals,11 and received broad support from Islamists, socialists, liberals, Kurds, Arabs, and Assyrians. Nevertheless, it also received criticism from certain groups. Some secularists, for example, criticized the declaration for its mention of Islam as "the religion and ideology of the majority and the more prominent cultural component in the life of the nation and the people." Some Kurdish groups, on the other hand, thought the declaration did not address the Kurdish question adequately.

The Syrian regime attacked the declaration with accusations of treason, claiming that it only served Israel and the United States and that it undermined the security of Syria.12 Another matter of concern for the regime was the Muslim Brotherhood's participation in the Damascus Declaration process. Beyanuni's letter read at the al-Atassi Forum and the Muslim Brotherhood's endorsement of the declaration and its alliance of convenience with the secularists made the regime intensify its repression of the opposition. The al-Atassi Forum was indefinitely closed and the members of its administrative committee were arrested. Several TV channels, radio stations and websites were banned. Twelve signers of the Damascus Declaration were arrested and sentenced to prison for terms ranging from three to six years on charges of "weakening patriotic spirit by spreading false news." The judge, however, decided to merge the two punishments and reduce the prison term to two and a half years.13

az jan jananam fucked around with this message at 15:21 on Jun 11, 2012

# ? Jun 11, 2012 15:15

az jan jananam: Sep 6, 2011; HI, I'M HARDCORE SAX HERE TO DROP A NICE JUICY TURD OF A POST FROM UP ON HIGH

This more has to do with fashion culture but nice to see some honesty: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/11/world/middleeast/syrian-conflict-cracks-carefully-polished-image-of-assad.html?pagewanted=1&_r=3&hp

quote:

None of the articles about Mrs. Assad struck a nerve quite like the 3,200-word March 2011 profile in Vogue titled �A Rose in the Desert.� In it, the writer, Joan Juliet Buck, called Mrs. Assad �the freshest and most magnetic of first ladies.�

In a phone interview, Ms. Buck said that shortly after the profile was published, she began �steadily speaking out against the Assad regime,� including in an interview with Piers Morgan on CNN and elsewhere. In April, on National Public Radio, Ms. Buck said she regretted the headline that Vogue put on the article. But she said Mrs. Assad was �extremely thin and very well-dressed, and therefore qualified to be in Vogue.�

# ? Jun 11, 2012 16:12

pistolshit: May 15, 2004

az jan jananam posted:

This more has to do with fashion culture but nice to see some honesty: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/11/world/middleeast/syrian-conflict-cracks-carefully-polished-image-of-assad.html?pagewanted=1&_r=3&hp

Interestingly, one of the links in that piece goes to a post from The Atlantic about how Vogue has scrubbed the article from the internet. Only one copy remains on some Rome-based Assad fan webpage.

http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2012/01/the-only-remaining-online-copy-of-vogues-asma-al-assad-profile/250753/

# ? Jun 11, 2012 16:52

Brown Moses: Feb 22, 2002

There's been an interesting article on improvised Syrian weapons that's being discussed on Twitter, and one of activists posted this picture, which apparently is used to attack checkpoints:

I'm going to look into improvised weapons and see if I can get some more pictures.

# ? Jun 11, 2012 23:13

Mc Do Well: Aug 2, 2008; by FactsAreUseless

If I were a US security expert I'd be really concerned with the CIA letting youtube enable Syrian Revolutionaries. Lots of real IED / urban combat tactics circulating!

# ? Jun 11, 2012 23:22

farraday: Jan 10, 2007; Lower those eyebrows, young man. And the other one.

McDowell posted:

If I were a US security expert I'd be really concerned with the CIA letting youtube enable Syrian Revolutionaries. Lots of real IED / urban combat tactics circulating!

Internet-trained revolutionaries? Someone light the uglycat symbol.

It is pretty amazing, if slightly depressing, the ingenuity desperation creates.

# ? Jun 12, 2012 03:46

Svartvit: Jun 18, 2005; al-Qabila samaa Bahth

It's the chassis of a kid's pedal "kit" car fitted with an electric motor and a pneumatic pump for steering. I used to do pretty much the same when i was a kid. I think kansas star might have blown the story a little out of proportion.

# ? Jun 12, 2012 06:08

Brown Moses: Feb 22, 2002

The photo is a seperate thing, it was Tweeted as an example of other DIY weapons being used by the FSA. Apparently it's driven to up checkpoints and detonated.

# ? Jun 12, 2012 08:44

ugh its Troika: May 2, 2009; by FactsAreUseless

Somewhere, the inventor of the Goliath is doing a fistpump. :hitler:

# ? Jun 12, 2012 08:55

Young Freud: Nov 26, 2006

Spakstik posted:

It's difficult to tell based on the quality of the video, but the vehicle looks like a BMP rather than a tank (the title of the video also labels it as such but omits any model number). I've only peered inside a BMP once or twice but if I remember right they pretty much store all of the ammo in a ring around the inside of the turret, not in any special compartment like you'd see on a modern tank. It's definitely the ammo cooking off initially, followed by the gas tank(s?) if I had to guess. I used to be a tank crewman, but they never really told us what it would look like when we got blown the gently caress up.

Yeah, here's a picture of the 73mm Grom cannon. The BMP-3s, if this is one, have a 100mm self-loading cannon of similar design, mated with a 30mm cannon as well. You can see from the RPG-like dummy cartridges and the shell cozies that the ammo carousel wraps around the turret.

# ? Jun 12, 2012 09:07

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# ? Apr 29, 2024 00:24

Brown Moses: Feb 22, 2002

This video was posted by activists in Homs showing this church being hit by government shelling in in Bostan al-Diwan. What's unclear is if it was deliberately targeted, or hit by random shelling.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUNPCgZEZjQ

# ? Jun 12, 2012 09:18

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Middle East Thread of Despair: More Broken Than Syria

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