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Al-Saqr posted:Shock could mean both ways, people didnt see him dying before taking the throne, and there is a very wide sense of relief amongst the populace that they dont have to deal with him being king anymore. which is good isn't it? i assume they are more open. Alot of the GCC populace view Abdullah [the current king] as the best of the lot, and i hold that opinion too. EDIT: Al-Saqr if you got the time, you probably should do a post on your expectations on the future generation of saudi heirs.
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Jun 16, 2012 12:50
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Just seen this come up on Twitterquote:The UN observers suspended their mission in Syria, AFP quoted mission chief General Robert Mood as saying.
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Jun 16, 2012 13:34
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Brown Moses posted:Just seen this come up on Twitter After reading this quote from Mood yesterday quote:The six-point Plan does not belong to Kofi Annan, it does not belong to Unsmis. It belongs to the Syrian parties that have accepted it and the international community that has endorsed it. There is no other plan on the table yet it is not being implemented. I had a feeling this was coming. The subtext appears to be "Don't blame us, we tried, you asked for us to do this, come up with something else already". Unfortunately I don't see much of anything spurring anyone into action, it appears that the international community has accepted that there's going to be a bloody civil war.
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Jun 16, 2012 13:42
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Al-Saqr posted:Shock could mean both ways, people didnt see him dying before taking the throne, and there is a very wide sense of relief amongst the populace that they dont have to deal with him being king anymore. He was already 79 years old. He wouldn't have had that many years to find new ways of making Saudi Arabia a more conservative place. I think it's more shocking that these people are dying in such a short time in general. It reminds of the age of Abdullah - he's 87, he's not going to linger much longer. Fahid died at 85. The new crown prince Mutaib isn't a very progressive man either... and if Abdullah dies now, he might very well rule for three decades. quote:[Mutaib] told that reducing problems and meeting the students' demands were not more urgent than security and stability. He further argued that as a result of recent events in the Arab countries, they should be alert to maintain the stability and security of Saudi Arabia
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Jun 16, 2012 15:22
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What do you call one dead monarch? A good start.
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Jun 16, 2012 15:50
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McDowell posted:What do you call one dead monarch? E. P. Thompson had a sentence that critiqued that idea a bit. Paraphrasing, but, something along the lines of, "Even those who agree with Diderot that 'mankind will not be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest' will tire before finishing the job of strangling the last Old Regime city alderman with the entrails of the last parish rector." EDIT: The point being that you can kill people on the top of the pyramid all you want, but as long as the fundamental underlying structure of the regime is intact, it'll regrow. Patter Song fucked around with this message at 16:17 on Jun 16, 2012 |
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Jun 16, 2012 15:54
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J33uk posted:I had a feeling this was coming. The subtext appears to be "Don't blame us, we tried, you asked for us to do this, come up with something else already". Unfortunately I don't see much of anything spurring anyone into action, it appears that the international community has accepted that there's going to be a bloody civil war. There's not really much they can do to prevent a civil war at this point. I don't think there's any stomach in the West for an intervention at this point, especially with the EU on the brink of a potential economic meltdown.
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Jun 16, 2012 18:37
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The Civil War seems inevitable at this point, but then it's just a matter of time before things spill over into Iraq, Turkey, Lebanon, and Israel. I can imagine Americans being whipped up to defend Israel, and Turkey is a NATO member, but Russia clearly doesn't want any kind of Western Operations so close to their turf. Could the Russians wind up invading Syria as "peacekeepers"?
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Jun 16, 2012 18:45
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McDowell posted:The Civil War seems inevitable at this point, but then it's just a matter of time before things spill over into Iraq, Turkey, Lebanon, and Israel. I can imagine Americans being whipped up to defend Israel, and Turkey is a NATO member, but Russia clearly doesn't want any kind of Western Operations so close to their turf. I don't think we'll get as far as that, even with Russia embracing a new attitude towards international relations it would be a very hard sell for Putin to explain away domestically. At the same time the prospect of this boiling over and sparking off a low grade regional war isn't that distant a possibility. Things in Lebanon are already tenser than they have been for a while. I've got to imagine the pressure on the State Department in the US to find something, anything new that doesn't involve direct intervention is massive. The idea of the US and Russia supporting a Yemen style solution was floated and shot down rapidly, Russia simply isn't going to play ball. The statements from State today about the need for a political solution are well intentioned but I don't think anyone truly believes that'll happen at this point. Comedy (allow me to reiterate, comedy) longshot outcome... Egypt under the auspices of Arab League sends peacekeepers in, the Syrian people are so grateful for the stability they bring that the United Arab Republic project lives again.
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Jun 16, 2012 19:00
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Patter Song posted:EDIT: The point being that you can kill people on the top of the pyramid all you want, but as long as the fundamental underlying structure of the regime is intact, it'll regrow. I know, I just have no love for oligarchs, and the House of Saud is a pretty obvious one. As for a Russian military intervention I think it's one of many (bad) scenarios. With the global economy falling apart Putin could shore things up in Russia with a War Economy, he could make alot of noise about "asserting our strength" and the resulting economic boost could lead to domestic support. But the Russians could also be incredibly brutal and I don't think the US/NATO would stand for it.
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Jun 16, 2012 19:42
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J33uk posted:Comedy (allow me to reiterate, comedy) longshot outcome... Egypt under the auspices of Arab League sends peacekeepers in, the Syrian people are so grateful for the stability they bring that the United Arab Republic project lives again. And then, fueled by brotherly love and good vibrations, Libya joins in to recreate the Federation of Arab Republics.
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Jun 16, 2012 19:49
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Did a couple more blog posts today: Assad's Troops Allegedly Found In Possession of Anti-Nerve Gas Medication 5 Killed, 20 Injured After Bakery Shelled In Farhaneyeh, Homs
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Jun 16, 2012 19:56
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Al-Saqr posted:Shock could mean both ways, people didnt see him dying before taking the throne, and there is a very wide sense of relief amongst the populace that they dont have to deal with him being king anymore. okay so who would be the least poo poo option for the saudi throne? between, say, the three or four closest in line
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Jun 16, 2012 21:12
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Just heard on AJE that said government forces were shelling eastern suburbs of Damascus today.
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Jun 16, 2012 22:03
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There's been claims of more knife based massacres as well. Does this photo scream "Photoshop" to anyone else?  [edit] Apparently not, there's a video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlwjzH4Bty4 Brown Moses fucked around with this message at 22:38 on Jun 16, 2012 |
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Jun 16, 2012 22:33
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Brown Moses posted:There's been claims of more knife based massacres as well. What does the caption say? "This kid enjoys getting shelled, look how happy he is! - your government."
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Jun 16, 2012 22:38
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It was tweeted along with something about his new toys he gets to play with.
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Jun 16, 2012 22:42
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The Arabic is very dodgy, the first word is literally "al situation" yeah its transliterated english, the next is Al Maidany which means on the ground, and Homs has an extra letter that shouldn't be there in Arabic (the letter that corresponds to Waw). حمص this is what it should like in Arabic and not حومص Edit: Also arabic dates aren't right to left, its left to right, same for numbers. Fizzil fucked around with this message at 00:43 on Jun 17, 2012 |
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Jun 17, 2012 00:39
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Bild am Sonntag reports that Saudi Arabia is looking to buy up to 600-800 Leopard 2 MBTs from Germany. Earlier they were looking for 300 Leopards while other option was US M1 Abrams, which the Saudis already have 373 of. So now they seem to have decided on Kraut Panzers. Lots of them. There's just the problem that the previous export plan is still waiting for approval due to the human rights questions. Though a 10 billion euro deal should easily clear any peacenik obstacles... 
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Jun 17, 2012 16:16
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Nenonen posted:Bild am Sonntag reports that Saudi Arabia is looking to buy up to 600-800 Leopard 2 MBTs from Germany. Earlier they were looking for 300 Leopards while other option was US M1 Abrams, which the Saudis already have 373 of. So now they seem to have decided on Kraut Panzers. Lots of them. The big reason is the fuel efficiency, which the Leopard 2's diesel engine is better in regards to the turbine engine of the Abrams. The Abrams is a notorious gashog: in the Gulf War, the advance of the Abrams was followed by gas tanker trucks so they could be refueled constantly. The same issue came up when Turkey was looking to modernize its armed forces and they passed on the Abrams for the Leopard 2 exactly for that reason. The Leopard 2 gets something like 1 mile per gallon, while the Abrams is 2 gallons per mile. I think General Dynamics was trying to make a diesel-engine conversion to the Abrams for the export market, but I suspect its still not ready for prime-time. The big difference between diesels and turbines is that diesels are more fuel efficient and tend to run cooler than turbines, while turbines are quieter and, I think, have more acceleration. Young Freud fucked around with this message at 17:22 on Jun 17, 2012 |
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Jun 17, 2012 17:15
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Nenonen posted:Bild am Sonntag reports that Saudi Arabia is looking to buy up to 600-800 Leopard 2 MBTs from Germany. Earlier they were looking for 300 Leopards while other option was US M1 Abrams, which the Saudis already have 373 of. So now they seem to have decided on Kraut Panzers. Lots of them. I really doubt they're getting anywhere near 10 billion, Western Europe has cut it's tank force so much post cold war, think 80% for Germany and 100% for the Netherlands, the world market is probably completely saturated with cheap western armor. On a guess I'd say they're probably paying less than 2 billion. Which I suppose is even worse.
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Jun 17, 2012 18:15
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AlexanderCA posted:I really doubt they're getting anywhere near 10 billion, Western Europe has cut it's tank force so much post cold war, think 80% for Germany and 100% for the Netherlands, the world market is probably completely saturated with cheap western armor. What are you basing your figure on? The article said that they were buying brand new vehicles, with special modifications to make them better suited for the climate, and the estimated worth would be 10 billion euros. e: (well, the deal also includes some other services & equipment, but those must measure to peanuts compared to the tanks & climate packages themselves) Nenonen fucked around with this message at 18:49 on Jun 17, 2012 |
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Jun 17, 2012 18:35
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Nenonen posted:What are you basing your figure on? The article said that they were buying brand new vehicles, with special modifications to make them better suited for the climate, and the estimated worth would be 10 billion euros. I'm pretty sure the European military-industrial complex is very much like the American military-industrial complex, gouging the consumer whenever they can. I've got no doubt Kraft-Mafftei, Rheinmetall, and the Bundeswehr are doing everything they can to sell the Saudis surplus Leopard 2s with new bolt-on armor and localization hardware that costs another 8 billion euros. Young Freud fucked around with this message at 18:42 on Jun 17, 2012 |
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Jun 17, 2012 18:40
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Nenonen posted:Bild am Sonntag reports that Saudi Arabia is looking to buy up to 600-800 Leopard 2 MBTs from Germany. Earlier they were looking for 300 Leopards while other option was US M1 Abrams, which the Saudis already have 373 of. So now they seem to have decided on Kraut Panzers. Lots of them. It is also possible that this is a negotiation ploy in order to get a better price for more M1s. I'm sure the kickbacks and back-alley deals will flow like a river before this is decided.
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Jun 17, 2012 19:11
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Young Freud posted:I'm pretty sure the European military-industrial complex is very much like the American military-industrial complex, gouging the consumer whenever they can. I've got no doubt Kraft-Mafftei, Rheinmetall, and the Bundeswehr are doing everything they can to sell the Saudis surplus Leopard 2s with new bolt-on armor and localization hardware that costs another 8 billion euros. I've heard elsewhere that there are still warehouses throughout Western Europe full of 80s era Abrams and Bradleys in the old woodland camouflage. No proof, but I would not doubt it.
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Jun 17, 2012 20:22
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Al-Saqr posted:Prince nayef bin abdel Aziz, heir to the Saudi throne and the extremely conservative head of both the intelligence services AND the religious police has died of illness, this is huge news and people feel both a huge shock since this is the second heir to die in the same year. ...Yeah, good riddance. Not that Mutaib's great, but pretty much anyone would have been a step up.
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Jun 17, 2012 20:46
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So essentially, the Muslim Brotherhood is claiming Morsi is way ahead so far according to the vote count, Shafik is alleging voting violations, and SCAF is saying that it doesn't really matter, because it's writing the constitution and leaving itself in charge.
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Jun 17, 2012 22:56
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Just put together a lengthy blog post about the weapons being used by the FSA, and various other things they've thrown together, including a surprising amount of armoured cars, The Increasingly Well Armed FSA, And Other Oddities.
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Jun 17, 2012 23:24
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Xandu posted:So essentially, the Muslim Brotherhood is claiming Morsi is way ahead so far according to the vote count, Shafik is alleging voting violations, and SCAF is saying that it doesn't really matter, because it's writing the constitution and leaving itself in charge. are you loving kidding me  "abloo bloo they're not letting soldiers vote three or four times with the extra IDs i sent them, what has become of the republican principles modern egypt was founded upon"then again considering the kind of elections this shithead's gotten used to, it's no wonder he's complaining (not that i'm saying morsi is good, but yeah gently caress shafik)
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Jun 17, 2012 23:39
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GreyjoyBastard posted:...Yeah, good riddance. Not that Mutaib's great, but pretty much anyone would have been a step up. I have friends spreading this on Facebook with a certain amount of glee. "Women shall not drive so long as I live" - Nayyef bin Abdul Aziz 
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Jun 17, 2012 23:56
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-- Edit (Updated results): 69% of results aggregated: Morsi - 9,191,539 (53.9%) Shafiq - 7,846,591 (46.1%) 9067 out of 13099 polling stations. Ham fucked around with this message at 01:35 on Jun 18, 2012 |
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Jun 18, 2012 01:29
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Brown Moses posted:There's been an interesting article on improvised Syrian weapons that's being discussed on Twitter, and one of activists posted this picture, which apparently is used to attack checkpoints: Rare footage of this in action: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2TTDkrSYqQ
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Jun 18, 2012 02:13
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The FJP just announced Morsi won.
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Jun 18, 2012 03:30
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Shafik's campaign is saying they don't recognize it, awaiting official confirmation.
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Jun 18, 2012 03:33
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Egypt is gonna see some riots, that's for sure. Discounting the recent elections, violence, etc.
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Jun 18, 2012 04:52
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Paul Danahar just posted on Twitter: If I'd have walked around #Tahrir square waving this story at people the day Mubarak quit no one would have gone home http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-18482257 Sigh. 
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Jun 18, 2012 06:47
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The Brothers' vote tallying has been pretty spot on so far so I don't doubt it this time tbh.
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Jun 18, 2012 10:01
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I will discuss and write about the Egypt and saudi situation but for now given this earth shaking event I would like the thread title change to: Middle east wars: the revolution continues with a spare tire (it's a play on mursi's nickname)
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Jun 18, 2012 12:02
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E:Need to read thread.
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Jun 18, 2012 12:44
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I could do with some help on this video, it claims to show captured Iranian soldiers in Syria https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQQ2cj-9BBs You can watch it in HD to get a better look at their IDs, any additional info on this would be very useful, as you can imagine.
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Jun 18, 2012 17:00
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