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I'm waiting on round 2 of my IPA draft to start at http://www.justin.tv/newcardsmell so you can listen to me fart and mumble like a hillbilly while I play Bejeweled 3. When round one ended I advertised rinski and OM's draft but they were waiting for the round to end too. More goons need to stream.
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Jun 21, 2012 03:40
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| # ? Jun 11, 2024 10:23 |
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Why do people keep passing me Hunting Drakes? Stop passing Hunting Drakes.
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Jun 21, 2012 05:28
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In my first IPA pod I opened this bomb combo.  Rith, the Awaker and Nemata, Grove Guardian. Token craziness.
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Jun 21, 2012 05:32
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My first draft, I had a Nemata too. No sick combos unfortunately, but Nemata by herself was good enough. I managed to make it to first place after having to play around a pretty funny Penumbra/Obliterate deck in the finals. I also opened and played a Pernicious Deed.  e: I completely punted my second draft with the packs from the first but I don't care. 
JerryLee fucked around with this message at 06:02 on Jun 21, 2012 |
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Jun 21, 2012 05:37
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Christ, I missed this format. I probably need to stop being so greedy with my mana bases (I keep ending up with 40/30/30 splits), but I love the balance between tempo and card advantage. I have no idea why players will wheel Probe, Jilt or Urborg Uprising, but I'm happy to take advantage of it. Uprising is the nut, especially in this low toughness, tons of removal format. And I opened a foil Vindicate in my current draft 
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Jun 21, 2012 07:53
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rinski posted:If you guys feel like prying yourselves away from a really good limited format to watch other people draft a not so great one, OM and I will be streaming another AVR draft in a few minutes. I'm still convinced that people that don't like AVR just don't get what it's about. It's a really good and dynamic format. Once you embrace the variance in the format it becomes crazy fun. Some people are just boring and like building obvious decks full of good in a vacuum cards I guess.
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Jun 21, 2012 08:25
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What people don't realize about AVR draft is that Geist Trappers are seriously like the 4th best common (after Mist Raven, Seraph, and Forcemage) but nobody takes them, and if you get 2-3 Geist Trappers, you're basically unkillable after you hit a certain point
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Jun 21, 2012 14:03
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Also the Goldnight Commander/Thatcher Revolt combo is nearly unbeatable. I have never lost when I play it and I have never won when someone else does :S
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Jun 21, 2012 14:07
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Abeya Minora posted:Urborg Uprising, but I'm happy to take advantage of it. Uprising is the nut, especially in this low toughness, tons of removal format. I was in three other colors and happily splashed black for this when it got passed late, great card advantage.
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Jun 21, 2012 15:51
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50 pounds of bread posted:I'm still convinced that people that don't like AVR just don't get what it's about. It's a really good and dynamic format. Once you embrace the variance in the format it becomes crazy fun. Some people are just boring and like building obvious decks full of good in a vacuum cards I guess. I guess I just don't get it, since I just have no desire to play a format where any hope of winning hinges on the stars aligning and having tons of synergistic cards passed to you and/or opening entreat/bonfire. Even if some of those things happen for you, you can still get randomly blown out by wolfir silverheart paired with elgaud shieldmate, nightshade peddler and lightning prowess, moonsilver spear, or any of the other silly crap in this set.
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Jun 21, 2012 18:38
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I've done like 30 drafts and only lost maybe a total of three or four games to any of those cards, it's not like Innistrad didn't have cards like Bloodline Keeper or Daybreak Ranger that were just "lol @ u "
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Jun 21, 2012 18:46
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JAMOOOL posted:I've done like 30 drafts and only lost maybe a total of three or four games to any of those cards, it's not like Innistrad didn't have cards like Bloodline Keeper or Daybreak Ranger that were just "lol @ u " Bloodline Keeper and Daybreak Ranger were both cards that could easily be neutralized by a bunch of different commons, and if they weren't, took at least a couple of turns to take over the game. There are no cards that neutralize a topdecked Bonfire (unless you count the wildly unplayable Outwit,) and it wins the game instantly. I've played this format a lot, and the thing that strikes me about it is how ridiculously easy it is. There are so few cool tricks or interesting decisions to make, either while drafting or while playing. It feels almost exactly like a core set limited format. Ashenai fucked around with this message at 18:58 on Jun 21, 2012 |
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Jun 21, 2012 18:53
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JAMOOOL posted:I've done like 30 drafts and only lost maybe a total of three or four games to any of those cards, it's not like Innistrad didn't have cards like Bloodline Keeper or Daybreak Ranger that were just "lol @ u " Bloodline Keeper, sure, but in general you had much better tools to actually *deal* with those cards. There's only one card that's a hard kill spell, and it's sorcery speed and makes you sacrifice a creature. Even ignoring those specific cards, you've got stuff like a Miracle'd Blessings of Nature on a Wandering Wolf, where you have to have an answer pretty much immediately, or you just lose.
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Jun 21, 2012 18:55
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Yeah well I think its a fine format, if anything the part of it that is unappealing is the flavor. But every limited format I've played has bombs, fine bonfire is a little more bomby than most but i think its pretty reasonable to survive the other bombs in the format. @blessings on a wandering wolf: This is pretty easily beaten, depending on what you're playing. Blue can bounce it, black can kill it, white can defang it... Its less of a death sentence than cleaver plus stalker was. an skeleton fucked around with this message at 18:58 on Jun 21, 2012 |
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Jun 21, 2012 18:56
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Ashenai posted:There are no cards that neutralize a topdecked Bonfire (unless you count the wildly unplayable Outwit,) and it wins the game instantly. Now I really want to play Outwit on a Bonfire. Just to watch the other player flip their poo poo that I blew out their best card with possibly the worst card.
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Jun 21, 2012 18:57
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Right, Miracles are swingy, but if a person has Bonfire, on how many turns do you think he'll have a chance to topdeck it and win? Maybe 4-5 per game? AVR games rarely go past turn 9 or 10. 3rd turn Blessing *is* stupid. I agree that Green has some of the dumbest cards (Silverheart and Druid's Familiar come to mind); I dunno - to each their own, I think you can maintain a pretty drat high win % even if you lose to the occassional bomb (and there are a lot of them). On the other hand the lack of removal is the kind of thing you can definitely play into (for example, Geist Trappers is excellent b/c it gums up the board and nothing really takes it out)
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Jun 21, 2012 19:01
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Divine Deflection saved my rear end against a Bonfire once.
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Jun 21, 2012 19:08
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Mob posted:I'm waiting on round 2 of my IPA draft to start at http://www.justin.tv/newcardsmell so you can listen to me fart and mumble like a hillbilly while I play Bejeweled 3. When round one ended I advertised rinski and OM's draft but they were waiting for the round to end too. I'd like to watch some IPA draft, but I can't read any of the cards on your recorded streams. No troubles with OM's or rinski's; resolution issue?
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Jun 21, 2012 19:13
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JAMOOOL posted:Right, Miracles are swingy, but if a person has Bonfire, on how many turns do you think he'll have a chance to topdeck it and win? Maybe 4-5 per game? AVR games rarely go past turn 9 or 10. Human Frailty is p. good against Geist Trappers. Not much else, though. Green also has Somberwald Sage, which I think is a pretty sweet card. Churning out turn 4/5 Howlgeist, or being able to splash the awkward colored angels is pretty nice.
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Jun 21, 2012 19:40
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Bill O'Riley is GENIUS posted:I guess I just don't get it, since I just have no desire to play a format where any hope of winning hinges on the stars aligning and having tons of synergistic cards passed to you and/or opening entreat/bonfire. Even if some of those things happen for you, you can still get randomly blown out by wolfir silverheart paired with elgaud shieldmate, nightshade peddler and lightning prowess, moonsilver spear, or any of the other silly crap in this set. Uhh, I have literally won drafts in B/u with 0 bombs passed to me. This format is all about understanding subtle card interactions. There are a bunch of cards in this set that seem bad, but are actually incredible against large chunks of the metagame. Case in point, predators gambit. If you don't see why that card is strong in this format, and you are talking about not liking the format, you should really reevaluate what AVR is about.
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Jun 21, 2012 20:01
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odiv posted:I'd like to watch some IPA draft, but I can't read any of the cards on your recorded streams. No troubles with OM's or rinski's; resolution issue? oh boy are there ever. thanks for the heads-up. edit: yep. I never changed it away from the default, which was tiny. Hopefully it'll be fixed for future videos. Might as well delete the first one. Mob fucked around with this message at 20:18 on Jun 21, 2012 |
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Jun 21, 2012 20:15
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50 pounds of bread posted:Uhh, I have literally won drafts in B/u with 0 bombs passed to me. This format is all about understanding subtle card interactions. No matter how well you play you can't beat a miracled Revenge of the Hunted or Bonfire of the Dammned. No amount of set knowledge or synergy beats one sided wrath. The set is swingy and boring, which is a real treat. edit: I understand that the best draft decks are not full of bombs. There are a lot of ways you can draft green and none of my good draft decks have been based on rares either, except I think that 5/5 flying demons enchant was a rare but anyways. I mostly play sealed where the variance is higher. I don't think it's fair to assume that anyone who dislikes this limited format doesn't get it, because there are plenty of people who do get it and are doing well that still find it boring. The best thing I can say is that it's coming after DII, which was also disappointing compared to triple Innistrad, which is the best limited set I've ever played. second edit: I wouldn't argue with anyone who was enjoying the set. I've really enjoyed drafting U/x bounce decks, and you can legitimately draft five color green based decks that can do really well. All the rest of the time I find the set boring, especially because I mostly play sealed where you don't get to do that stuff. rabidsquid fucked around with this message at 22:06 on Jun 21, 2012 |
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Jun 21, 2012 21:45
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I feel like in the grand scheme of things, AVR isn't a terrible draft format. There is an element of skill in the draft and in the playing of matches, but it was just such a letdown after triple Innistrad especially, and DII to a lesser extent. Everyone was hoping for ROE type small set shenanigans, but instead we have something more akin to ROE with many Dranas and no removal.
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Jun 21, 2012 22:41
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Yeah, I also get the feel that we've just been a bit spoiled by a very good recent limited format in Innistrad. I'd say AVR is an "ok" format, and I don't mind drafting it. There isn't a major "archetype imbalance" like Zendikar had, even when the format I think leans on aggressive. And while black is definitely the dog colour, it is still completely playable when the drafters adjust for that fact, and not a almost a total poo poo sandwich like say, blue in triple Scars draft. To me whether draft format is "good" really boils down to: are you making interesting and meaningful decisions during draft, during deckbuilding, and during games? LSV I think got it right in some video early to AVR, the big difference to say triple Innistrad is in that card's value in draft generally stays fairly constant over the draft. The major factors you are considering are just curve, creature count and very minor synergies, and the importance of these is higher. Exception I think is really in black, which really can draft decks with very high synergy, and on the red decks using Thatcher's Revolt. The gameplay still has enough interesting choices you need to make I believe. I think it's pretty clear R&D tuned removal in the format on low power level to make soulbound (and loner to a degree) a viable mechanic, but they went just a tad bit too far with it and interactivity of the format starts hurting. At times there really aren't many ways you can interact with say a common T2 bear, T3 forcemage opening. So yeah, I'm somewhat agreeing that it has a bit of core set drafting feel, focus on the basics. But still I've drafted I think worse draft formats during for example the whole Scars block (MBS - SOM - SOM is probably about on the same level on my mind), and definitely during the time I've been playing modern magic (Alara onwards).
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Jun 21, 2012 23:06
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I just scrubbed out of tavern draft with a good deck so, to borrow a phrase from dave_o's Minecraft LP, let's have a very relaxed IPA draft (note: I haven't drafted IPA since it was a paper format).
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Jun 22, 2012 02:26
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JAMOOOL posted:I've done like 30 drafts and only lost maybe a total of three or four games to any of those cards, it's not like Innistrad didn't have cards like Bloodline Keeper or Daybreak Ranger that were just "lol @ u " I didn't mean to say that you always face those cards/combos. It's just that sometimes you draft what seems to be an amazing, unstoppable deck, but then you lose to some janky pile of crap that happens to have a stupid combo or insane bomb in it, because there are like no answers in this format.
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Jun 22, 2012 02:30
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Lunael posted:I'd say AVR is an "ok" format, and I don't mind drafting it. There isn't a major "archetype imbalance" like Zendikar had, even when the format I think leans on aggressive. And while black is definitely the dog colour, it is still completely playable when the drafters adjust for that fact, and not a almost a total poo poo sandwich like say, blue in triple Scars draft. Black is the best color in the format. It has 3 major archetypes that are all very powerful as well as being splash-able to utilize its incredible grip of removal. Black loner (pair this with blue) is the strongest tempo deck in the format, and B/r suicide aggro is the fastest aggro deck in the format. Sure, there are miracles that make other colors able to blow black decks out, but that's literally the point of the format. If you learn how to draft black in this format, you will appreciate the format way more. I seriously suggest people try drafting heavy black loner cards like treacherous pit-dweller, predators gambit, and demonic taskmaster. Then pair them with some removal and blue tempo/bounce, like crippling chill and into the void. You will be surprised at how easily a couple bad cards like pit-dweller and predators gambit carry you to victory while your opponents sit helplessly watching their massive armies get wrecked by your spells.
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Jun 22, 2012 03:10
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I'm doing self commentary on a bunch of the picks, but critique away: http://www.raredraft.com/watch?d=3b64n I'm an idiot and didn't notice the mist raven p1p1. Add to that I'm not experienced at all with drafting 3xAVR and I'm new to MODO and it's a wonder I ended up 2-1 in the draft. I realize I could have probably gotten into blue/black, but I made my choices and you get to berate me for them now.
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Jun 22, 2012 04:57
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Bill O'Riley is GENIUS posted:I didn't mean to say that you always face those cards/combos. It's just that sometimes you draft what seems to be an amazing, unstoppable deck, but then you lose to some janky pile of crap that happens to have a stupid combo or insane bomb in it, because there are like no answers in this format. I'm guessing I made some people feel that way with a draft I did yesterday - this was my deck (I've gone for this every time I get a Commander early, but this was the best attempt yet) 2 Goldnight Commander 2 Vigilante Justice 3 Thatcher Revolt 1 Righteous Blow 1 Cathedral Sanctifier 1 Scroll of Avacyn 1 Thraben Valiant 1 Falkenrath Exterminator 1 Fervent Cathar 1 Farbog Explorer 1 Devout Chaplain 1 Haniwar Lancer 1 Riot Ringleader 1 Angel of Jubilation 1 Riders of Gavony 1 Mad Prophet 1 Banishing Stroke 1 Thunderous Wrath 1 Terminus 1 Slayers Stronghold 9 Plains 7 Mountain Commander/Revolt is just so drat unstoppable - it's and overrun that gives you three free creatures to attack with - how can you lose???
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Jun 22, 2012 15:27
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50 pounds of bread posted:Black is the best color in the format. It has 3 major archetypes that are all very powerful as well as being splash-able to utilize its incredible grip of removal. ehh, Black can definitely be good but if more than 2 people draft it, nobody winds up with a good deck. You need good uncommons like Blood Artist/Barter/Homicidal Seclusion to make up for the fact that its creatures at common are generally weak. Plus ppl tend to splash Death Wind so your best common is hard to get.
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Jun 22, 2012 15:29
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YeehawMcKickass posted:I'm doing self commentary on a bunch of the picks, but critique away: http://www.raredraft.com/watch?d=3b64n p1p2 - I actually take Blood Artist here. Banishing Stroke is hardly good enough to commit you to white and the Heirs are not as good as they look. Exterminator would be fine but Blood Artist is always good. p1p3 - Personally I'd take Riot Ringleader because he's so important to R/W humans and the Wrath is really not as good as it looks. But Wrath is plenty defensible. p1p4 - Pick up Farbog Explorer. He's good! (Bracers come around late) p1p7 - Inquisitor is really great in this deck, don't even consider Killing Wave p1p8 - Absolutely do not consider Protector, he's a 23rd card if I've ever seen one p1p9 - Actually I like the Sanctifier here - you may not play him but he's good vs. other R/W decks and one-drops can actually help this deck a lot p1p12 - I guess he did come back? That's weird. p2p1 - Honestly, just get another Farbog here. You won't want to play Tyrant and he's not worth anything. p2p3 - Yes it's close but I think you made the right choice. p2p4 - I'd take Armanents for some reach but you're right, it's not really a card you want to be playing p2p5 - I don't think this is close at all - Emanicaption Angel is first-pick worthy. p3p5 - Vigilante is a one drop and not very good, Gang is really expensive and doesn't fit your deck at all. Exterminator can be awesome, especially with those Feverant Cathars. Even w/ one counter he's great. He's the clear pick here. p3p6 - Take the Mist Raven here. You're not going to play 3 Moonlight Geists, especially as the 3-drop spot is pretty crowded already. p3p7 - That's nuts. Dunno who you're drafting with but no way should 5 players pass on Raven and 6 pass on both Seraph AND the E. Angel. Perhaps there was a bomb white rare in there? Wow p3p8 - I forget if you have a Chaplain already, but if you didn't I would pick him over Cloudshift since his ability can save your rear end vs. black decks that run Seclusion, Demonic Rising, etc. p3p9 - No no no, don't hate Stonewright, he's the best red one-drop. Your deck is aggro, why do you want walls??
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Jun 22, 2012 16:19
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JAMOOOL posted:ehh, Black can definitely be good but if more than 2 people draft it, nobody winds up with a good deck. You need good uncommons like Blood Artist/Barter/Homicidal Seclusion to make up for the fact that its creatures at common are generally weak. Plus ppl tend to splash Death Wind so your best common is hard to get. This is so true. If you are the only black drafter at the table, you're golden. It seems like that originally, Black was under-drafted when AVR first came out (at least on MODO) and now people are on to how good it actually is. The good news is that Homicidal Seclusion is easily splashable and you can use it in most decks (aside from the Soulbound ones) pretty successfully.
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Jun 22, 2012 16:30
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The color you pair with Black is also really important. I've been very disappointed with B/U, but B/G is actually a really good combination. Black gives you the removal and Green gives you the good creatures that Black lacks. I don't think it's the best color (Blue and Green are much better) but I'm fine jumping into Black if I get passed a Seclusion.
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Jun 22, 2012 16:46
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Gyshall posted:The good news is that Homicidal Seclusion is easily splashable and you can use it in most decks (aside from the Soulbound ones) pretty successfully. I actually view that as a really bad design decision. Homicidal seclusion is nearly required for B/x to really be viable, and the fact that other decks can take it and splash it so easily is a flaw. 3BB wouldn't change it's playability for black but would go a long way to keep other decks from taking it on a whim. Edit: I say that as a player who has 3-0'd pods with B/g without Homicidal Seclusion, but it was definitely shaky matches.
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Jun 22, 2012 17:04
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Seclusion is only as good as the sac-outlets you have to power it up. A lot of people have lost memorable games to it and that's why I think people tend to overrate it; you really love the turn 4 critter, turn 5 Seclusion draw but if you don't draw it early or plan for it, it can be something of a dead card. I remember watching a match where a guy had an incredible deck based around the card and wound up losing to a single Captain of the Mists, and then to a Defang. I see a lot of people treating it like it's a must splash/must play card no matter what and I think you really need to have the right type of deck to make it worth splashing for (as in, a deck that doesn't splash. you need black)
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Jun 22, 2012 17:21
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I've said it before and I've said it again: B/U is fine, actually probably one of the better pairings depending on which cards you use. The color you pair with black needs to complement it. For example, the treacherous pit dweller is basically only playable in Black/blue because you need bounce or flicker etc. to get him back if he dies (still don't take him first pick or anything). Peel is useful in a lot of ways; reset your butcher ghouls, get back down to 1 creature for seclusion, etc. Obviously I don't need to wax about Mist Raven but thats another good reason to be in blue. I've successfully drafted B/U, B/G, and B/R and I'm pretty sure B/W is fine if you're just splashing for banishments or whatever.
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Jun 22, 2012 18:54
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Sounds like you are playing way too many creatures for the loner archetype if you are looking for sac outlets. The loner archetype is all about tempo, which is why it pairs best with U. If you are trying to overwhelm your opponent with a superior force in black, you should be relying heavily on one of the strong creature colors (Red for speed, or Green for board presence.) If you are going for loner though, you are forcing through damage with removal, bounce, and predators gambit, while using the rest of your removal and tempo to stop them from racing you. In the loner archetype I like to cap my creatures between 9 and 11, and pack my deck with strong tempo, removal, and a couple buff spells like predators gambit (seclusion if you are lucky.)
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Jun 22, 2012 19:02
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In that case you're going to get hosed badly by stuff like Defang, and also your 12-14 spells will have to be fairly powerful (you could definitely make it work with a bunch of Fleeting Distractions and Crippling Chilis). Hopefully you can get a Fettergeist or two because that really is the ideal creature for this.
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Jun 22, 2012 19:13
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Yeah, defang is a strong card, but cards like barter in blood, bone splinters, into the void, and demonic taskmaster/demonlord of ashmouth are very good at blanking the card. Just for reference, out of 4 drafts where I have drafted B/u loner, I have gone 3-0 in 3 of them, and 2-1 in 1. I know 9-11 creatures sounds like a low number, but in my experience, the first or second creature you play is generally the one that gets you there. Also, yeah fettergeist is great, gryff vanguard and lone revenant are also great cards for the archetype. Dropping a revenant is the best thing this archetype can ever do.
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Jun 22, 2012 19:34
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| # ? Jun 11, 2024 10:23 |
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For anyone interested in really getting better at Magic, I highly recommend this week's Limited Resources podcast. (#137) It is extremely good and insightful. Covers a lot of things that frequently recur in the thread. Enjoy!
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Jun 23, 2012 07:10
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