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Ron Jeremy posted:Didn't he try to cure his own cancer by jumping the line for a transplant? He lived years longer than most people diagnosed with pancreatic cancer. That poo poo is nasty. He also believed in several alternative therapies that delayed treatment that might have staved it off entirely. By the time he started accepting mainstream treatments, it was basically too late.
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Jul 6, 2012 18:07
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Hah, looks like some secular evil-utionists got into the article on dogs.conservapedia posted:Fossils of canine skulls smaller than those of wolves have been found with human artifacts, with dates based on evolutionary assumptions estimated to between 130,000 and 190,000 years ago.[1] whilst DNA evidence has been used to suggest that dogs diverged from wolves between 100,000 and 135,000 years ago.[1] [2] Secular archeology has placed the earliest known domestication at potentially 12,000 BC-10,000 BC and with certainty at 7,000 BC. [3] There are non-conservapedia references and everything. This must not stand. Conservative, to the rescue!
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Jul 6, 2012 18:33
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Yehudis Basya posted:Hah, looks like some secular evil-utionists got into the article on dogs. This makes me wonder how many Conservapedia users are just sad nerds trying to improve it like it was a legitimate project. It's easy for someone to get hooked into swarm projects like wikis, always trying to make them the best they can be. Someone who's just focused on their own pet articles might not even notice all the insane poo poo that resides on the other pages.
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Jul 6, 2012 18:39
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I think those people were run out a long time ago. I'm sure it had many people who came to it thinking "oh I'm a piece of poo poo conservative and I think wikipedia has a bias on articles like the gay agenda! This is a good idea, it will be a factual wiki just without the LIBERAL bias!" and then gets run out for admitting to believe the theory of relativity.
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Jul 6, 2012 18:46
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colonelslime posted:He also believed in several alternative therapies that delayed treatment that might have staved it off entirely. By the time he started accepting mainstream treatments, it was basically too late. It's usually too late by the time pancreatic cancer is diagnosed. I think he beat the odds for longer than most people without infinite cash.
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Jul 6, 2012 18:51
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Ron Jeremy posted:Didn't he try to cure his own cancer by jumping the line for a transplant? He lived years longer than most people diagnosed with pancreatic cancer. That poo poo is nasty. There's even some speculation that he gave away a mansion to skip the line. (The doctor that took care of him is now living in his house.)
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Jul 6, 2012 19:52
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Ron Jeremy posted:It's usually too late by the time pancreatic cancer is diagnosed. I think he beat the odds for longer than most people without infinite cash. Not saying you're entirely wrong, but Jobs' form of pancreatic cancer was part of the slow-growing variety, about 5% of diagnoses. At that point he might have been able to have it cured through conventional therapies, or surgery. He ignored doctor's advice and treatment for a full 9 months, which pretty much killed what little chance he had. link to article describing it in Forbes: http://www.forbes.com/sites/alicegwalton/2011/10/24/steve-jobs-cancer-treatment-regrets/
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Jul 6, 2012 20:04
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President Anime 2008 posted:Also pointed out that pure sodium and pure chlorine are pretty drat terrible for humans to ingest but guess what, sodium chloride doesn't make you die a horrible death when you eat a couple of grams of it every day (although not eating enough of it, or too much of it, can obviously cause a horrible death). This sort of thing doesn't occur to anti-vaccination conspiracy nuts, but I was pretty surprised that he listened and agreed to go and read up credible sources on the 'controversy'. Haha, I've used the salt argument also. Ordinary table salt is composed of a highly reactive metal and a deadly poisonous gas. Don't be fooled by Big Salt!
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Jul 6, 2012 22:18
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colonelslime posted:Not saying you're entirely wrong, but Jobs' form of pancreatic cancer was part of the slow-growing variety, about 5% of diagnoses. At that point he might have been able to have it cured through conventional therapies, or surgery. He ignored doctor's advice and treatment for a full 9 months, which pretty much killed what little chance he had. That really sucks. My wife lost her mom relatively recently to pancreatic cancer. She was a tough old broad and probably suffered a great deal before she finally went to see a doctor. From initial diagnosis to her passing was less than a month. While hard for everyone involved, I have to wonder if it wasn't better than lingering on through chemo. gently caress cancer. Especially that kind.
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Jul 7, 2012 01:29
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Be interesting to see how their article on Jonathan Krohn changes now that Krohn has openly declared that he was wrong to be Conservative and now supports Obama.
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Jul 7, 2012 20:32
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Parahexavoctal posted:Be interesting to see how their article on Jonathan Krohn changes now that Krohn has openly declared that he was wrong to be Conservative and now supports Obama. Commie stooge brainwashed by Big Union teachers and seduced away from proper Christian morality by secularists, and/or gay. Conservative, of course, will find a way to mention how he's also flabby and lacks machismo.
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Jul 7, 2012 20:45
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Parahexavoctal posted:Be interesting to see how their article on Jonathan Krohn changes now that Krohn has openly declared that he was wrong to be Conservative and now supports Obama. 
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Jul 7, 2012 21:21
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But the actual page on Krohn remains unsullied with his new liberal ways!
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Jul 7, 2012 21:28
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CellBlock posted:There's even some speculation that he gave away a mansion to skip the line. (The doctor that took care of him is now living in his house.) If I understand right, he just did the equivalent of getting into a couple lines at once. He didn't shaft anyone who'd been waiting first, he just took a route that isn't available to most people because they don't have his money. Last I heard it wasn't clear if alternate medicine really damaged his odds that much, although it was also completely useless. I also like that Andy flat-out says that if you're not properly insulated you get Ideas, and that's bad.
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Jul 8, 2012 00:51
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Yehudis Basya posted:But the actual page on Krohn remains unsullied with his new liberal ways! Lenski! 
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Jul 8, 2012 01:07
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Rose Wreck posted:If I understand right, he just did the equivalent of getting into a couple lines at once. He didn't shaft anyone who'd been waiting first, he just took a route that isn't available to most people because they don't have his money. But that's still wrong, because the vast, vast majority of people can't afford two (or more) separate residences so that they can get on the transplant lists in multiple states. The transplant lists and methods are supposed to be structured so that wealth doesn't factor in to determinations of who gets what organ, but Jobs flaunted the imperfections in the system (i.e. that it's state by state, rather than national) to help himself. Why should Jobs have gotten a liver when some middle class or poor person couldn't get a liver the same way?
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Jul 8, 2012 05:04
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Davethulhu posted:Haha, I've used the salt argument also. NaCl salt in ordinary doses is fine and even necessary. I'm not aware of anything saying that even a little extra mercury in an an organic compound is beneficial for people, and consuming as much methyl mercury as one does NaCl would be a Bad Idea. [TM] So while claiming that the amount of of organomercury in vaccines is not harmful, comparing it to table salt is absurd.
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Jul 8, 2012 05:35
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Fly posted:NaCl salt in ordinary doses is fine and even necessary. I'm not aware of anything saying that even a little extra mercury in an an organic compound is beneficial for people, and consuming as much methyl mercury as one does NaCl would be a Bad Idea. [TM] So while claiming that the amount of of organomercury in vaccines is not harmful, comparing it to table salt is absurd. Just because the analogy isn't perfect doesn't make the comparison absurd. The point is that a molecule containing an element dangerous on its own isn't necessarily dangerous at every possible dose, and the use of table salt is to illustrate that fact. There aren't that many molecules that the average person knows the composition of, but most people know at least that salt is sodium chloride and that chlorine is deadly.
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Jul 8, 2012 06:46
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Bruce Leroy posted:But that's still wrong, because the vast, vast majority of people can't afford two (or more) separate residences so that they can get on the transplant lists in multiple states. The transplant lists and methods are supposed to be structured so that wealth doesn't factor in to determinations of who gets what organ, but Jobs flaunted the imperfections in the system (i.e. that it's state by state, rather than national) to help himself. Why should Jobs have gotten a liver when some middle class or poor person couldn't get a liver the same way? Because he has money.
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Jul 8, 2012 07:40
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The Jobs thing was a case of 'it's not breaking any rules, but it's a real poo poo move that most of the people in his situation can't really do'.
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Jul 8, 2012 07:49
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Idran posted:Just because the analogy isn't perfect doesn't make the comparison absurd. The point is that a molecule containing an element dangerous on its own isn't necessarily dangerous at every possible dose, and the use of table salt is to illustrate that fact. There aren't that many molecules that the average person knows the composition of, but most people know at least that salt is sodium chloride and that chlorine is deadly. The other way the analogy works is that there really isn't much evidence that thimerisol (the mercury-based compound that was once used as an anti-fungal preservative in vaccines) itself is harmful to humans, the alarm was based on what other forms of pure methyl- and ethylmercury have been found to do in humans. It's like being alarmist about table salt because of some study about the dangers of another compound containing sodium. Glitterbomber posted:The Jobs thing was a case of 'it's not breaking any rules, but it's a real poo poo move that most of the people in his situation can't really do'. Yes, he technically didn't break any rules, but he did violate the spirit and intent of transplant regulations. It's actually kind of a good thing because he was such a well-known guy that it really brought this loophole into light, whereas there are probably many more rich people who aren't well known but who still exploit the same loophole. There really need to be national regulations preventing this kind rich rear end in a top hat douchebaggery.
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Jul 8, 2012 09:48
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President Anime 2008 posted:Rubbing something in people's noses only makes them more attached to their beliefs. People generally really hate being wrong. Looks like you were wrong though, because thiomersal is highly toxic, bad for the environment and for these reasons is being phased out of use in vaccines. Also your analogy doesn't hold, because mercury is toxic in any form, isn't required in any metabolic cycle, can accumulate in body tissues and basicaly shouldn't go anywhere near a living organism.
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Jul 8, 2012 10:09
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grate deceiver posted:Looks like you were wrong though, because thiomersal is highly toxic, bad for the environment and for these reasons is being phased out of use in vaccines. Also your analogy doesn't hold, because mercury is toxic in any form, isn't required in any metabolic cycle, can accumulate in body tissues and basicaly shouldn't go anywhere near a living organism. Actually, thimerosol is extremely safe and there's no actual evidence that it was harming anyone when it was used with vaccines (which is actually quite complicated, having to due with the amount used, its half-life in the body, which tissues it allegedly accumulates in, etc.). The reason it was removed from vaccines is due to all the anti-vax hysteria. Governments, doctors, etc. would rather remove a useful component like thimerosol than for its presence to result in lower rates of vaccination, i.e. the benefit provided by thimerosol is outweighed by its reputation if it causes people not to get vaccines. It's more important that kids get vaccines so they don't get highly infectious diseases like mumps and measles than whether thimerosol is being used as an anti-fungal preservative.
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Jul 8, 2012 11:44
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Bruce Leroy posted:But that's still wrong, because the vast, vast majority of people can't afford two (or more) separate residences so that they can get on the transplant lists in multiple states. The transplant lists and methods are supposed to be structured so that wealth doesn't factor in to determinations of who gets what organ, but Jobs flaunted the imperfections in the system (i.e. that it's state by state, rather than national) to help himself. Why should Jobs have gotten a liver when some middle class or poor person couldn't get a liver the same way? I have more sympathy for him because that was his shot at living... and while he may have had an unfair advantage, he couldn't make life fair and give organs to everyone, either. Seriously, if you were dying and had gobs of money I don't think you'd pass up something that could save your life, even if not everyone could. Also if this thread is seriously turning into Conservapedia-style anti-vaccine paranoia: the whole reason thimerosal is being phased out of vaccines is in response to the fear that it causes autism. There isn't any medically supported reason for it. The autism rate has not gone down in response.
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Jul 8, 2012 13:26
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I'm not saying that a vaccine with thiomersal would outright kill you. It metabolises to ethylomercury and I would consider having ethylomercury in your body that can freely pass the blood-brain and placental barriers to be generally a bad idea (ethylmercury does not accumulate though, that was my mistake). I mean, at this point every person in the world is constantly exposed to mercury in one way or another and we should maybe try to minimize it when possible. It's also classified by GHS as having a very toxic efffect on aquatic life. Most likely doesn't cause autism though.
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Jul 8, 2012 14:12
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grate deceiver posted:I'm not saying that a vaccine with thiomersal would outright kill you. It metabolises to ethylomercury and I would consider having ethylomercury in your body that can freely pass the blood-brain and placental barriers to be generally a bad idea (ethylmercury does not accumulate though, that was my mistake). I mean, at this point every person in the world is constantly exposed to mercury in one way or another and we should maybe try to minimize it when possible. The amount couldn't have gotten any smaller. It was a minute amount in a shot that you initially get once in your life. Maybe you get a few boosters years down the road. Since we're talking vaccines given to primarily male and female children I am not that worried by the placental-barrier thing. It's a trade-off, too. It wasn't in the vaccine for no reason, it was to improve the safety of something that prevented potentially fatal or crippling or brain-damaging diseases from whipping through the population. And if it doesn't accumulate it really doesn't have any relation to mercury poisoning. But yes. You should not put it in your fishtank.
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Jul 8, 2012 14:24
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grate deceiver posted:Most likely doesn't cause autism though. Being the oldest of 5 by 10 years, I was in my teens while my younger siblings were in school during the whole MMR debate, my mother being at the time a new age middle class hippie wanna-be got totaly taken with this autism link poo poo. So let me say this: VACINES DO NOT IN ANY WAY CAUSE AUTISM No maybe's, no likelys, there is NO link, it was proved time after time after time after time. The only doc saying anything of the sort was proven as a loving shill and struck off from the medical register.
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Jul 8, 2012 14:27
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Pound_Coin posted:VACINES DO NOT IN ANY WAY CAUSE AUTISM Lord, I didn't even see that. Taking a look at the talk edit page for vaccines. Conservapedia seems mostly accurate and has admitted Wakefield is fraudulent after only one revert, but I'm wondering how that "VACCINE CAUSES AUTISM IN MONKEYS!!!" person down at the bottom will fare. (The study has been debunked repeatedly and involved three monkeys. If anyone can explain to me how to tell a regular captive monkey from an "autistic" captive monkey I will be fascinated.  )
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Jul 8, 2012 14:44
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e: woah, a whole page happened there
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Jul 8, 2012 14:46
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Rose Wreck posted:Lord, I didn't even see that. The monkeys got on to Tumblr and started self-identifying as autistic as an excuse for their crippling social anxiety, obviously.
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Jul 8, 2012 15:23
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colonelslime posted:The monkeys got on to Tumblr and started self-identifying as autistic as an excuse for their crippling social anxiety, obviously. Fauxtistics!
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Jul 8, 2012 15:47
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Can we stop derailing with pseudoscience claptrap and get back to conservapedia? Here's their Conservative Bible Project. Their notions of translation make me quite sad. In the article I linked, they're obsessed with word count as a metric (and seemingly only metric) for translation difficulty. Conservapedia Bible Project posted:How long would this project take? There are about 8000 verses in the New Testament. At a careful rate of translating about four verses an hour, it would take one person 2000 hours, or about one year working full time on the project. What the hell? Number of words is pretty loving orthogonal to translation difficulty and even time it takes to translate. Want a fast translation? Give me 1000 words of simple prose rather than 200 words of complex verse. Uggghhhhhhh. They are also completely ignoring the vast amount of commentaries from over the past millenium and beyond that have been arguing about what a given verse means (and that's just the "Jewish" part). It pains me. Pains me!!!!!!!!!
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Jul 8, 2012 16:06
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Yehudis Basya posted:Can we stop derailing with pseudoscience claptrap and get back to conservapedia? Here's their Conservative Bible Project. I still love the hubris of these self-admitted conservatives i n trying to rewrite the unchanging word of god. Like, don't they see how this undermines all the Bible's claims to legitimacy, if they claim that everyone else before them was just wrong?
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Jul 8, 2012 16:10
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Yehudis Basya posted:Can we stop derailing with pseudoscience claptrap and get back to conservapedia? Hey! My psuedoscience was from conservapedia! Dipping into the Bible Project as suggested, I did find this. Whatever it means: The English language, relatively weak at its beginning, continues to develop by adding insightful new terminology. These more precise and meaningful concepts should be utilized by English translations of the Bible. The King James Version was written in the early 1600s, and powerful terminology has been added to the English language since then, some in the past decade. Shakespeare died in 1616. Imagine if he was still around to use the superior power of modern English. With terms like "wi-fi" and "fax machine" he could have penned some truly great works instead of whatever he did with his weaksauce language. Now that "nothing" is not a euphemism anymore, "Much Ado About Nothing" is totally meaningless.
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Jul 8, 2012 16:25
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colonelslime posted:I still love the hubris of these self-admitted conservatives i n trying to rewrite the unchanging word of god. Like, don't they see how this undermines all the Bible's claims to legitimacy, if they claim that everyone else before them was just wrong? Honestly, I think it's great that they want to re-translate the Bible. Translating stuff is awesome. I'm even willing to back off the word "hypocritical"- if they're observant enough to realize that translations are shadows of original text, then all the better. What is so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, soooooo awful is how they're deliberately ignoring the substance of the verses so that they can write something that appeals to them politically. It's completely the opposite of a good translation method. As though Jesus or Avraham or whoever has a loving opinion on the state of political affairs in the United States of America in the 21st century. One possible good that can come out of the project: students doing the translation might see how strange and non-obvious, or morally reprehensible, or totally not-in-line with their conceptions of Jesus, the verses are. The second thing that is even more awful: I think we are supposed to presuppose that Schlafly is allowing students to do the translation, as opposed to Schlafly just sitting there with a copy of the King James Version (or other English-language versions) and a red pen (which is what I suspect he is doing). Just look at his examples of mistranslations: Second Example - Dishonestly Shrewd posted:At Luke 16:8, the NIV describes an enigmatic parable in which the "master commended the dishonest manager because he had acted shrewdly." But is "shrewdly", which has connotations of dishonesty, the best term here? Being dishonestly shrewd is not an admirable trait.
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Jul 8, 2012 16:33
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Yehudis Basya posted:Just look at his examples of mistranslations: I don't care if the manager was commended for acting resourcefully, shrewdly, magnanimously, or monomoniacally; it still says right there in the beginning that he's dishonest. "The dishonest manager was commended for acting honestly" flies in the face of the story. I'm surprised he didn't try to change it all in one go, but he's probably saving that for the second revision, where clearly the manager must have been honest because he was acting honestly.
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Jul 8, 2012 17:29
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Maybe poo poo got changed when Jesus took over, but I'm pretty sure God isn't down with people trying to rewrite his words for personal gains.
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Jul 8, 2012 17:29
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Since the purpose of the project is to retcon Jesus so that he's cool with rich people (and against health care and gays and whatever), I'm really looking forward to how they'll fix the passage before Jesus' remark about rich people and camels through eyes of needles. You know, where there's a rich guy who says he'll do anything to please God as long as he gets to keep his money and Jesus flat out says that even though he appreciates the effort, he's still going to hell.
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Jul 8, 2012 17:36
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[The] "master commended the resourceful manager because he had acted shrewdly." Solved. Only a liberal could find fault with that interpretation of the Word of Gawd Hisself.
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Jul 8, 2012 18:21
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Would a contemporary version of this be like a Priest opening an account with Bank of America, getting screwed by the way they prioritize transactions and then saying "these crooked bankers are truly geniuses, people who only care about money sure do know a lot about money compared to priests like me."
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Jul 8, 2012 19:03
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