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Dr Pepper posted:3, 12, and 13 are all also fun though. The last one, definitely. 3 can go suck a gently caress, though. Ugh.
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Jul 18, 2012 05:40
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W.T. Fits posted:Meatbone Slash wasn't in V. And Ninjas and Thieves don't get any passive evasion procs. Thieves inherently have the ability that prevents back attacks, and Ninjas have the ability that increases the odds of a preemptive attack. Are those inherited by the Freelancer?
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Jul 18, 2012 05:53
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Gammatron 64 posted:Uhh... did they decrease the difficulty for FF5 GBA? No, FF5 is just not a particularly difficult game. Once you learn the mechanics it's pretty easy to handle most everything. Schwartzcough posted:Thieves inherently have the ability that prevents back attacks, and Ninjas have the ability that increases the odds of a preemptive attack. Are those inherited by the Freelancer? Yes. All passive abilities but the Berserker's Berserk and the Necromancer's Undead are inherited by Freelancer.
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Jul 18, 2012 05:56
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Dr Pepper posted:Yes. All passive abilities but the Berserker's Berserk and the Necromancer's Undead are inherited by Freelancer. To clarify, passive abilities are abilities that the job starts out knowing and which you get just by switching to the job. Contrast something like Two-Handed on the knight, which isn't a command ability but which knight doesn't have by default either.
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Jul 18, 2012 05:59
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Azure_Horizon posted:The last one, definitely. 3 can go suck a gently caress, though. Ugh. 3-6 or 3-3, because 3-6 oh man you must be smokin' something other than the herb but if you mean 3-3 then gently caress, that is indeed an awful game from every single perspective imagineable. The DS remake only succeeded in stressing its problems in its attempt to "balance" the game by giving enemies free attacks and inflate their HP by tens or hundreds of times while giving the player no compensation but really crappy polygonal models that would've looked bad even on a PS1.
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Jul 18, 2012 06:35
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They also for whatever reason tried to make every class roughly equal, while in the original game all but two classes were explicitly meant to be obsolete at some point. Which is just dumb, there's way too many classes for them to all be worth the same, and it's pointless because there's no way to carry over abilities like in FF5.
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Jul 18, 2012 06:48
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jivjov posted:I know this has been discussed, but I can't find the specific posts to save my life. I want to get FFV and VI, are the ones up for purchase on PSN utterly horrible, or are they serviceable I can't speak for 6, but the GBA version of 5 is the best one. The one on PSN is fine but the loading times for battles are about two seconds, every single time. The GBA release also has some bonus content. The PSN one is prettier though with some remade graphics.
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Jul 18, 2012 06:56
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The White Dragon posted:3-6 or 3-3, because 3-6 oh man you must be smokin' something other than the herb but if you mean 3-3 then gently caress, that is indeed an awful game from every single perspective imagineable. The DS remake only succeeded in stressing its problems in its attempt to "balance" the game by giving enemies free attacks and inflate their HP by tens or hundreds of times while giving the player no compensation but really crappy polygonal models that would've looked bad even on a PS1. I love the NES version, it's one of my favorite games. No, the classes are not interchangable and some are weaker than others but save Garuda there's more flexibility than you think. You don't need those final two classes to beat the game. It also did a lot for the series as a whole by introducing a bunch of mainstays: -Adding those unique FF classes (Geomancers, Dragoons, etc.) while expanding on the classes in FF1 -Multiple airships -Moogles and Chocobos (yes there were Chocobos in FF2 but you'd never find that one tile without a guide) -FAT CHOCOBO -Autotargeting after a target dies (a godsend) -A kickass OST, soooo much better than 1 and 2's it's hard to believe they were all on the NES
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Jul 18, 2012 07:21
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Well, yeah, the NES version ain't bad. It has its mechanical flaws, but like you say, it introduced a bunch of mainstays, and that's admirable and cool. I played it some; there were those real pain-in-the-rear end areas in the beginning of the game which are just plain bad from a design perspective, but barring those, it was, y'know, you could play it and you wouldn't grit your teeth in seething fury over something really unfair like a boss getting two or three attacks in a row bursting down a character you could've easily healed had the boss only had one attack like they did the NES version. The DS version, though, takes the mechanical flaws the original had (like class-based HP gains but class-independent statting), gave it unique equipment and an awful friendcode-based unlock system, and threw you to the wolves in terms of balance. I mean seriously how can you take a boss who once had 2000 HP and then suddenly beef him up to 30,000 HP without changing your core damage formulas? There's something really wrong going on in the thought processes behind that. Fur20 fucked around with this message at 08:44 on Jul 18, 2012 |
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Jul 18, 2012 08:41
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So, FFV. I've gotten all 12 legendary weapons, all summons except the last one, and I've picked up the 3 bonus jobs. I feel like I've done all the sidequests before I go kicking rear end in the Rift. Anything else I should go for first?
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Jul 18, 2012 09:10
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Idioteque Dance posted:So, FFV. I've gotten all 12 legendary weapons, all summons except the last one, and I've picked up the 3 bonus jobs. I feel like I've done all the sidequests before I go kicking rear end in the Rift. Anything else I should go for first? If the last one you have is Bahamut, there's nothing for the last slot. Magic Lamp, top of the waterfall. Need to ride Boco around up there.
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Jul 18, 2012 09:16
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Bruceski posted:Magic Lamp, top of the waterfall. Need to ride Boco around up there. Is Magic Lamp consumable? How does it work? I know it's the only way to obtain it and I'm just one of Those Sorts Of People, I don't wanna lose my only Magic Lamp. poo poo, I'll grind on the Veldt for two hours so I can have enough Behemoth Suits to bet into Snow Mufflers and still have a pair for Strago and Relm.
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Jul 18, 2012 09:56
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The White Dragon posted:Is Magic Lamp consumable? How does it work? I know it's the only way to obtain it and I'm just one of Those Sorts Of People, I don't wanna lose my only Magic Lamp. poo poo, I'll grind on the Veldt for two hours so I can have enough Behemoth Suits to bet into Snow Mufflers and still have a pair for Strago and Relm. It's rechargable. It starts at Bahamut and works its way down, and every time you visit the top of Istory Falls or a certain room in the Great Sea Trench it recharges.
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Jul 18, 2012 10:16
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FF3 NES is pretty drat fun. Of course there's some bullshit areas, and there's many, many ridiculously-designed dungeons. But it's still fun, and there is actual strategy in picking classes, even if the game outright tells you at times what classes to use. Yeah, some classes are completely useless (Bard), and some get outdated very quickly (Red Mage), and Black Magic stops being useful after leaving the Floating Continent, but there's still many useful party combinations that can help out. You can go all-out offense, which is generally useful, but you can also make an impenetrable tank that simply cannot be killed. Or you could gamble with an Evoker's summons, or try to kill stuff with Geomancy. Or just dodge entire turns of attacks with a team of Dragoons. The game really opens up once you get your third set of jobs. And that's to say nothing of the game's amazing music, the solid graphics (for an NES game, of course), or even the game's simple-yet-cool-at-times story, which has probably one of the more unique themes in the series. The DS version on the other hand...Yeah. I don't blame anyone for hating that one. They didn't rebalance actual combat that well, and they didn't even try to make it more user-friendly for those who didn't want NES hard. Not even a loving save point for the final dungeon?
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Jul 18, 2012 10:57
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To further build on the Magic Lamp discussion, it goes from Bahamut to: Leviathan, Odin, Syldra, Carbuncle, Catoblepas, Golem, Titan, Ifrit, Ramuh, Shiva, Remora, Sylph, and ends with Chocobo forever. At that point you have to go recharge it. The first seven are total lifesavers for Fiesta runs. Free magic damage of varying elements (that can be boosted by rods!)from most of them, free instant kill on one part of Neo Exdeath (as well as anything not immune to Instant Death) from Odin, free Reflect from Carbuncle, free Petrify from Catoblepas, and free physical attack resistance from Golem. Long story short the Magic Lamp owns so go get it. heartcatcher fucked around with this message at 11:07 on Jul 18, 2012 |
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Jul 18, 2012 11:03
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jivjov posted:I know this has been discussed, but I can't find the specific posts to save my life. I want to get FFV and VI, are the ones up for purchase on PSN utterly horrible, or are they serviceable They are pretty horrible, sorry to say.
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Jul 18, 2012 11:11
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glod posted:To further build on the Magic Lamp discussion, it goes from Bahamut to: Leviathan, Odin, Syldra, Carbuncle, Catoblepas, Golem, Titan, Ifrit, Ramuh, Shiva, Remora, Sylph, and ends with Chocobo forever. At that point you have to go recharge it. At the Interdimensional Rift now and my party's levels are higher than the people who've completed the game (at 38-39 now), so I'm banking on this whole final part not being too difficult... what are the suggested levels for the two optional bosses?
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Jul 18, 2012 15:05
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jivjov posted:I know this has been discussed, but I can't find the specific posts to save my life. I want to get FFV and VI, are the ones up for purchase on PSN utterly horrible, or are they serviceable  ) They're definitely still playable and will do you in a pinch, but the GBA version of FFV is absolutely the best. The GBA version of FFVI isn't that much of an improvement over the SNES version though.
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Jul 18, 2012 15:26
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Idioteque Dance posted:At the Interdimensional Rift now and my party's levels are higher than the people who've completed the game (at 38-39 now), so I'm banking on this whole final part not being too difficult... what are the suggested levels for the two optional bosses? Levels aren't important at all. What matters is mastering certain classes and knowing how to combine abilities for synergy. A freelancer that has mastered ninja, spellblade, and ranger can one-shot Omega, for example.
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Jul 18, 2012 15:32
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Idioteque Dance posted:I actually already had it and forgot to list it earlier, though everybody in my party has mastered Summoner so it's of almost no use whatsoever. Maybe if I end up with 0MP for everyone at some point towards the end, but even then I bet !Call would be almost as useful as a magic lamp. Due to some of the obfuscated inner workings of FFV, there are a few things you can do with the Magic Lamp that you can't with summon magic. Most importantly, you can only get that True Edge instakill on part of Neo Exdeath with a lamp Odin. A summoned Odin will just use Gungnir (his other, non-instakill attack). 
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Jul 18, 2012 15:35
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Pablo Gigante posted:Long loading times, and FFV has a pretty awful translation (Wyvern -> Y-Burn The loading times aren't super-long on FFV, at least- the battles load a LOT faster than FFIX, for example. The one second load to get into the menu is probably the worst of it. Also, FFV on PSN is often criticized over it's translation, but it seems like different teams were doing the monsters compared to everything else. The monsters have retarded names (Soccer for a squid monster?), but nothing else in the game is that bad. Nothing else in the game has bad grammar (this guy are sick!) or is confusing at all. It IS a pretty bland translation, though. Really, the biggest issue with the PSX version is weird graphical glitching sometimes when you try to save, but it's harmless and I don't know if that even occurs on the PSN version.
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Jul 18, 2012 15:46
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Schwartzcough posted:The loading times aren't super-long on FFV, at least- the battles load a LOT faster than FFIX, for example. The one second load to get into the menu is probably the worst of it. Also, FFV on PSN is often criticized over it's translation, but it seems like different teams were doing the monsters compared to everything else. The monsters have retarded names (Soccer for a squid monster?), but nothing else in the game is that bad. Nothing else in the game has bad grammar (this guy are sick!) or is confusing at all. It IS a pretty bland translation, though. EDIT: Full disclosure, I haven't played FFV PSX since I owned FF Anthology back when it came out in 1999, mainly going on what I remember and what other people have said about it.
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Jul 18, 2012 15:49
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Idioteque Dance posted:So, FFV. I've gotten all 12 legendary weapons, all summons except the last one, and I've picked up the 3 bonus jobs. I feel like I've done all the sidequests before I go kicking rear end in the Rift. Anything else I should go for first? Get the last summon perhaps? The last row is Leviathan, Bahamut, and Phoenix, possibly not in that order. If you've gotten all the weapons you presumably have Leviathan, so that leaves Bahamut (can be useful, though boosted Syldra is often comparable and is less expensive) and Phoenix (situational).
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Jul 18, 2012 15:56
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Should have mentioned that I do have all those, so I'm well on my way to the next plot point.
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Jul 18, 2012 16:12
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Heroic Yoshimitsu posted:So I guess everyone here hates Tidus? I liked him. He started out as whiny or whatever(although, I mean having your entire city destroyed in a flood and being sent to what seems like an alternate world is pretty stressing), I thought he developed into a pretty good character. One thing I think people subconciously dislike about Tidus is being an "ignorant" character even though there's a perfectly good plot-reason for him to be (~time travel~) which can be annoying in "hot blooded" characters. I notice a lot of how a new protagonist is interpreted in fandom is how they compare to the last one. Before Tidus, we have a string of protagonists (Cloud Squall Zidane) who are all come off as pretty capable guys. Tidus is specifically supposed to be kind of a derpy cheerful spastic character who makes characters facepalm, so its a vibe not everyone likes. People who didn't mind him or were ambivalent, I notice, tend not to be bothered by Vaan's (also a "hot" character) character, if not his inclusion in the story. It's the same reason people notice Lightning is a "cold" character (among other reasons) because unless you count Ashe, who is simply "cool", there hasn't been a "cold" protag in the series since 8. But since no one is really as extreme as Squall anymore, people are reminded of 7. Thus, we think Cloud, again. Light is more Cloud in the execution than in the design, IMHO, and it's mostly in probably unintentional ways. Pasteurized Milk posted:Lightning being 21 probably has to do with the whole female Cloud thing. Probably more to do with wanting to imply the character is "serious" (not a teenager) while still making them young enough you can bullshit why their 30ish old friends are treated as old guys. I think besides some fun references for the fandom, Most of the Light=Cold stuff is more from the idea they wanted to sell Light as a "cold" character and so they took bulletpoints off of Cloud, who was the last megapopular "cold" character they did. Squall was probably TOO cold outside his designated story to base a main character on again, and Square learned that type is better as a put upon side character (seriously, the FF8 crew of Rinoa, Selphie, and Squall become much more tolerable when you realize X-2's versions of Yuna, Rikku, and Paine are basically improved versions of them.) I'd love to see the early ideas for Lightning which were apparently more "cute" and seem inline with OldCloud, but that might have ultimately hurt the character. But from what I hear, FF games are often developed simultaneously, so that might explain the weird design-wave of protagonist tones. keet fucked around with this message at 17:13 on Jul 18, 2012 |
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Jul 18, 2012 16:58
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The thing is that Lightning isn't really anything like Cloud. At best she is somewhat like the weirdo retcon Cloud they put into Advent Children and not even then. She is actively emotional and a lot of the time she is 'cold' it is actually 'she is so extremely pissed off she wants to punch everyone around her." She deals with her problems by rushing at them head on even when that's kind of a bad idea. If anything she's pretty hotblooded and quick to anger. Cloud, on the other hand, is basically never angry. He's cocky and confident and a bit silly on the outside and shy, awkward and sad on the inside. Even in Advent Children he's just morose and quiet and deals with his problems by running away from them or hiding them until he has no other choice. Cloud pretty rarely gets angry and when he does it's at himself more than anything else. He's about as different from Lightning as you can get. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 17:08 on Jul 18, 2012 |
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Jul 18, 2012 17:04
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Shinryu did not live up to the hype. Omega and Shinryu have such a reputation for being SUPER INSANELY HARD, but like everything else in FF5, they were a walk in the park. Hell, I think FF5 might even be easier than FF7. I'm thinking of maybe maxing out all my job levels for all characters off movers in the last dungeon, then maybe going to the new dungeon. Or maybe not, because I have everything I need - maxed magic skills, all spells, Ragnarok, great gear, Rapid Fire, Spellblade, Dual Wield, maxed Monk, Oracle, Thief on everyone.
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Jul 18, 2012 17:09
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ImpAtom posted:The thing is that Lightning isn't really anything like Cloud. At best she is somewhat like the weirdo retcon Cloud they put into Advent Children and not even then. She is actively emotional and a lot of the time she is 'cold' it is actually 'she is so extremely pissed off she wants to punch everyone around her." She deals with her problems by rushing at them head on even when that's kind of a bad idea. If anything she's pretty hotblooded and quick to anger. Exactly. Nearly all their similarities are really broad ones that obviously diverged a while ago, and while I enjoy noticing them to see how fandom precieves em, they're purely mechanical "behind the scenes" design things. People oversimplify and say "Lighting IS like Cloud" is like saying "Aya Brea is like Cloud" just because they have similar faces. Or "because X Superhero movie took tone cues from Nolan's Batman, X character IS like Batman." (Hell, take Sazh, who essentially uses a lot of bulletpoints from "older grounded single dad character" yet people don't readily compare him to Barret because the final result is clearly it's own character. But protags are more noticable, and tend to fit certain molds.) I only consider Lightning a "cold" character because Snow is such a ridiculously over-the-top "hot" one and following the Squaresoft Rules of Three Girls, Fang is the Laid-back/sexy one and Vanille is the Cute/Peppy one. v  vThe hot-vs-cold duality thing hits a snag because female characters are not usually designed around that, and because a lady protag has to be gungho about fighting simply to be taken seriously by some of the audience. Maybe better to say Light is a "cold" fighter, since they emphasis less smashy and more sleek cool deadly moves versus kicking you in the dick. Maybe she's more like Squall if his big sister had stuck around? keet fucked around with this message at 17:41 on Jul 18, 2012 |
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Jul 18, 2012 17:29
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If Lightning was a lot like Squall, I'd want to shove her in front of a bus. To make up for it, that game has both Vannile and Hope, two of the most annoying characters in the whole series. Before I always said Tidus and Squall were the worst, but those two give them some good competition.
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Jul 18, 2012 18:19
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Gammatron 64 posted:If Lightning was a lot like Squall, I'd want to shove her in front of a bus. Part of making the lead character a little older than usual is the kids get to do dumber kid-like things (Hope is a good character in premise, but his arc could use some work). I'd say Vanille is a decent character from a Selphie/Rikku/Yuffie standpoint in that her arc is important, but it's more the creepy execution of the character in non-plot things that bothered me.(Going through the LP index, I noticed Aya Brea is ALSO friends with a slick black dad. Is there some magic formula I'm not aware of?)
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Jul 18, 2012 18:24
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This is from a while back, but why all the hate for the DS FFIII remake? I liked it a lot. Sure, the job system isn't as deep as V, but that's because it's the first version of it. And maybe it's just because of nostalgia for PSX-era JRPGs (FFIX, Chrono Cross, Legend of Dragoon, etc.), but I liked the somewhat lo-fi 3D graphics. Overall I thought it was a really charming FF title. But yeah, no save point in the last dungeon was some raw bullshit. Speaking of FFV, GBA is definitely the way to go if only for the translation. It doesn't take itself seriously at all, even bordering on meta at times, almost like it knows this is a silly cliché fantasy JRPG story, but it kind of accepts it and has fun with it. The GBA version is very much a 'for the fans' version, kind of like FFIX but more so. And speaking of DS FFs, is 4 Heroes of Light any good? As I said, I actually liked FFIII DS, and it sounds very much in that vein, and not just because the studio is the same.
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Jul 18, 2012 18:31
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Gammatron 64 posted:Shinryu did not live up to the hype. Omega and Shinryu have such a reputation for being SUPER INSANELY HARD, but like everything else in FF5, they were a walk in the park. Hell, I think FF5 might even be easier than FF7. In all fairness, they both have short-circuit methods to brute-force them, but if you do not have really powerful ability combinations (Spellblade + Rapid Fire + Dual Wield, Mix, Berserk + Image or Golem, etc.), they can be pretty drat hard, especially at lower levels. My Thief/Summoner/Ninja/Samurai fiesta team didn't have a prayer against Omega, for example, because I had no way to deal with his incredible offensive pressure and counterattacks.
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Jul 18, 2012 18:34
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To look back on these old FFs and the insane amount of content they had that really added to them, made them worth going through a few times and doing extra challenges, and then facing present day with FF13 and 13-2 .. Do they have a chance to change with FF15? Endgame++ content, newgame+ content, ThisandThat superbosses of a kind that are less sadistic than the FF12 extras? Because the only thing that had me stick with Tales of Graces F was the combat system, just like the combat and the music (and curiosity of yet unseen difficult endgame/newgame content, which there is a stupid lot of) had me sticking with Star Ocean 4. e: Enjoying FF3 on my Samsung Galaxy S. Music isn't 100%, I wish I could remix it into something with fitting instruments in some of the tracks. It's also stupid cute. Not a battery-hog compared to most 2D games and applications I have, too. Ghosts n Gopniks fucked around with this message at 19:17 on Jul 18, 2012 |
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Jul 18, 2012 19:00
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Gammatron 64 posted:Shinryu did not live up to the hype. Omega and Shinryu have such a reputation for being SUPER INSANELY HARD, but like everything else in FF5, they were a walk in the park. Hell, I think FF5 might even be easier than FF7. The optional dungeon in FFVA is made with the assumption that you already broke the game inside and out. 
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Jul 18, 2012 19:12
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Schwartzcough posted:Thieves inherently have the ability that prevents back attacks, and Ninjas have the ability that increases the odds of a preemptive attack. Are those inherited by the Freelancer? Sorry about that. The way White Dragon phrased his statement, I assumed he was referring to in-combat abilities that let you dodge/block actual hits, like the Samurai's Shirahadori/Blade Grasp, not stuff like the thief's Vigilance or the ninja's First Strike.
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Jul 18, 2012 21:00
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penguinmambo posted:] That's totally a reference to Lethal Weapon, and probably not influenced by FF7.
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Jul 18, 2012 21:11
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Mr. Maltose posted:That's totally a reference to Lethal Weapon, and probably not influenced by FF7.
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Jul 18, 2012 21:17
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Well, I just started up FFXII. One big annoyance that strikes me: how come Square feels the need to change the controls in every game post FF7 and not give you the option to reassign buttons? In particular, I'm struggling with the camera - it's inverted from games like FFXI and Mass Effect, and they don't give you an option to invert them back. I have to constantly mash R3 to put the camera behind my dudes. IIRC, FF13 has this exact same problem. In FF7, O was select, and X was cancel (to be fair, a lot of PlayStation games couldn't decide which one to pick, and I remember being able to reassign buttons in FF7). Then in FF8, they switched it. They kept the same controls until FF11, where they decided to make the menu Square instead of Triangle for whatever reason (luckily you can change it... but only on PC.) Then they decided to go back to triangle for the menu, but decided to invert the camera and make it really awkward to use. Really SE, how hard is it to make a button config?
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Jul 19, 2012 00:43
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I could probably blame SE for making me 100% used to inverted controls. I get pissed when I can't invert them. But really how hard is that to do even in the PS2 era?
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Jul 19, 2012 00:50
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Gammatron 64 posted:Well, I just started up FFXII. One big annoyance that strikes me: how come Square feels the need to change the controls in every game post FF7 and not give you the option to reassign buttons? In particular, I'm struggling with the camera - it's inverted from games like FFXI and Mass Effect, and they don't give you an option to invert them back. Pretend like you're running a camera, you push down to tilt up. Vocation has made me completely incapable of running uninverted, honestly. My big controller problem has got to be FFT. FF7, yeah, O to confirm X to cancel but 1) you could change it and 2) that's basically SNES controls (A confirm B cancel). FF8 actually tripped me up quite a bit when they switched it, but I got used to X-confirm with Squaresoft's subsequent releases and off-flagship titles. Then I picked up FFT in... '01, '02 with no customization menu? God drat.
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Jul 19, 2012 01:01
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