New Zealand Megathread - The Milhouse of Australia

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Smithersnz: May 10, 2005; We freaked out yesterday. Let's just freak in tonight; Soiled Meat

Vagabundo posted:

Speaking of Maori and racist terms, Hone will probably be in a bit of hot water after calling the Maori Party "John Key's little house niggers."

Are you sure about that? He seems to get away with all the other poo poo he pulls.

# ? Sep 5, 2012 23:37

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# ? Jun 15, 2024 12:12

miss_chaos: Apr 7, 2006

Vagabundo posted:

Speaking of Maori and racist terms, Hone will probably be in a bit of hot water after calling the Maori Party "John Key's little house niggers."

Came to post this. Hone being Hone is a really long way away from casually tossing such an explicit racist term for attention. That's the type of thing that gets someone run out of Parliament.

Hone Harawira isn't some left wing fighter like he thinks, he's just an arsehole. As his party's sole MP he can stay until 2014 if he wants because no one can push him out, he'll get away with it, but Mana loses all credibility when their leader does stuff like that.

Edit: if Mana had any credibility to start with , and that remains to be seen

miss_chaos fucked around with this message at 00:21 on Sep 6, 2012

# ? Sep 6, 2012 00:18

dusty: Nov 30, 2004

I for one think his representing a constituency that has survived genocide via colonialisation, along with the Maori Party's total capitulation to the Tories in exchange for ministerial salaries and limo rides, entitles him to use the phrase "house-friend of the family" in the current context.

The use of the word "friend of the family" is rather crucial to his point, and has a specific historic currency. Here's the whole speech, with bolding to highlight relevent issues.

Malcolm X posted:

"There was two kind of slaves. There was the house negro and the field negro. The house negro, they lived in the house, with master. They dressed pretty good. They ate good, cause they ate his food, what he left. They lived in the attic or the basement, but still they lived near their master, and they loved their master, more than their master loved himself. They would give their life to save their masters house quicker than their master would. The house negro, if the master said "we got a good house here" the house negro say "yeah, we got a good house here". Whenever the master would said we, he'd say we. That's how you can tell a house negro. If the master's house caught on fire, the house negro would fight harder to put the blaze out than the master would. If the master got sick, the house negro would say "What's the matter, boss, we sick?" We sick! He identified himself with his master, more than the master identified with himself. And if you came to the house negro and said "Let's run away, Let's escape, Let's separate" the house negro would look at you and say "Man, you crazy. What you mean separate? Where is there a better house than this? Where can I wear better clothes than this? Where can I eat better food than this?" There was that house negro. In those days, he was called a house friend of the family. And that's what we call him today, because we still got some house niggers runnin around here. This modern house negro loves his master. He wants to live near him. He'll pay three times as much as the house is worth just to live near his master, and then brag about "I'm the only negro out here. I'm the only one on my job. I'm the only one in this school." "You're nothing but a house negro. And if someone come to you right now and say "Let's separate.", you say the same thing that the house negro said on the
plantation. "What you mean separate? From America? This good white land? Where you gonna get a better job than you get here? I mean, this is what you say! "I di-I ain't left nothing in Africa" That's what you say. "Why, you left your mind in Africa". On that same plantation, there was the field negro. The field negro, those were the masses. There was always more negros in the field as there were negros in the house. There negro in the field caught hell. He ate leftovers. In the house, they ate high up on the hog. The negro in the field didn't get nothing but what was left in the insides of the hog. They call them chit'lins nowaday. In those days, they called them what they were, guts! That's what you
were, a guteater. And some of you are still guteaters. The field negro was beaten, from morning til night. He lived in a shack, in a hut. He wore cast-off clothes. He hated his master. I say, he hated his master. He was intelligent. That house negro loved his master. But that field negro, remember, they were in the majority, and they hated their master. When the house caught on fire, he didn't try to put it out, that field negro prayed for a wind. For a breeze. When the master got sick, the field negro prayed that he died. If someone come to the field negro and said "Let's separate, let's run." He didn't say "Where we going?" he said "Any place is better than here". We got field negros in America today. I'm a field negro. The masses are the field negros. When they see this mans house on fire, we don't hear these little negros talkin bout "Our Government is in trouble. They say thee Government is in trouble." Imagine a negro, "Our Government". I even heard one say "Our astronauts." They won't even let him near the plant, and "Our astronauts". "Our neighbors" That's a negro that's out of his mind. That's a negro that's out of his mind! Just cause the slave master in that day, used Tom, to keep the field negroes in check. The same ol slavemaster today has negros who are nothing but modern Uncle Toms. 20th century Uncle Toms to keep you and me in check. Keep us under control. Keep us passive and peaceful. And nonviolent. That's Tom making you nonviolent. It's like when you go to the dentist and the man
is going to take your tooth. You're going to fight him when he start pulling. So they squirt some stuff in your jaw called novocane, to make you think their not doing anything to you. So you sit there and because you got all that novocane in your jaw, you suffer peacefully. Hahahaha. There's nothing in our book, the Quran, as you call it, Koran, that teaches us to suffer peacefully. Our religion teaches us to be intelligent. Be peaceful. Be courteuos. Obey the law. Respect everyone. But if someone puts his hand on you, send him to the cemetery! That's a good religion. In fact, that's that old-time religion. That's the one that ma and pa used to talk about. An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth and a head for a head and a life for a life. That's a good religion. And doesn't anybody, no one resist that kind of religion being taught but a wolf who intends to make you his meal. This is the way it is with the white man in America. He's a wolf and you're his sheep. Anytime a shepherd, a pastor, teach you and me not to run from the white man, and at the same time teach us don't fight the white man, he's a traitor, to you and me. Don't lay down our life all by itself, no, preserve your life. It's the best thing you got. And if you got to give it up, let it be Even Steven.

People bo-hoo about racism, but I actually don't see itin Hone's use of house-friend of the family. Should Hone sanitise those words becuase you feel uncomfortable? Should Malcolm X have not used the word "friend of the family" either?

What is the place of such political rhetoric? How precious are your white middle-class sensibilities, and how easily should you be offended?

/edit:

Stuff posted:

Flavell today dismissed the comments as "a normal Hone-ism". "That's how Hone operates. We are used to it and people will judge him on those sorts of comments."

/further edit: Mind you, I also agreed with Hone's use of the phrase "white motherfuckers" - I for one can think of no better description for such pieces of poo poo as Micheal Laws or Paul Holmes.

dusty fucked around with this message at 00:58 on Sep 6, 2012

# ? Sep 6, 2012 00:33

Lemonus: Apr 25, 2005; Return dignity to the art of loafing.

Should I leak something here?

# ? Sep 6, 2012 00:54

miss_chaos: Apr 7, 2006

No, I just expect more from our elected leaders. There are many Maori and non-Maori politicians in the house who stand up for Maori issues without using racially-loaded imagery and words to insult each other. It's unnecessary to get the point across, it brings down the tone in discussion and I expect more from our politicians than cat-calling and abusive poo poo. It solves nothing.

Hone Harawira is not Malcolm X. He's just trying to get a shot in as he has so many times before. That's fine, but there's a million different reasons to legitimately criticise the Maori Party leadership without throwing out this kind of bullshit.

miss_chaos fucked around with this message at 01:20 on Sep 6, 2012

# ? Sep 6, 2012 00:59

exmarx: Feb 18, 2012; The experience over the years
of nothing getting better
only worse.

Lemonus posted:

Should I leak something here?

Yeah

# ? Sep 6, 2012 01:17

Armourking: Dec 16, 2004; Step off!
Step off!

miss_chaos posted:

No, I just expect more from our elected leaders. There are many Maori and non-Maori politicians in the house who stand up for Maori issues without using racially-loaded imagery and words to insult each other. It's unnecessary to get the point across, it brings down the tone in discussion and I expect more from our politicians than cat-calling and abusive poo poo. It solves nothing.

What did you expect? They're children. They are the mental patients running the ward. They are the civil servants who think themselves the masters.

# ? Sep 6, 2012 01:32

Lampsacus: Oct 21, 2008

Lemonus posted:

Should I leak something here?

Go for it.

# ? Sep 6, 2012 01:43

Varkk: Apr 17, 2004

miss_chaos posted:

Edit: if Mana had any credibility to start with , and that remains to be seen

Mana has more credibility than the Maori Party especially when dealing with issues surrounding the Maori people and treaty rights.

Yes there are other MPs in the house who stand up for Maori issues, they just aren't the three in the Maori party.

# ? Sep 6, 2012 01:55

dusty: Nov 30, 2004

Varkk posted:

Mana has more credibility than the Maori Party especially when dealing with issues surrounding the Maori people and treaty rights.

This. Here's Morgan Godfrey's take on things

http://mauistreet.blogspot.co.nz/2012/09/shame-on-maori-party.html

quote:

It�s a familiar pattern. The Maori Party repeat the government position, they come under attack for doing so, 24 to 48 hours later they switch sides, possibly remembering that they are the �Maori Party�. If this was an innocuous issue, there would be little to no consequence in endorsing the government�s position. The thing is, it�s not. This leads me to the second question, how will the Maori Party�s position effect Maori opposition. Answer: immensely.

A fragmented opposition is easier to neutralise than a united opposition. The Kingitanga and the Maori Party are power structures in Maori society. Together, they represent a threat to the government�s objective to divide and rule, split, and they represent no threat at all.

It's a shame Miss Chaos that you don't acknowledge the importance of the issue at stake, nor the consequences of the Maori Party's actions. To you Hone's just "getting a shot in" as if he's somehow doing this to feast on negative headlines in the Pakeha press. Seems to me that this is a pretty lazy approach to take to take to such a crucial issue as soveriegnty and Key's enthusiasm for ripping rights away from a race of people.

The sad thing is Hone is right.

dusty fucked around with this message at 02:34 on Sep 6, 2012

# ? Sep 6, 2012 02:23

ledge: Jun 10, 2003

Lemonus posted:

Should I leak something here?

Well you'd better had now. No giving us blue balls.

# ? Sep 6, 2012 02:25

Pararoid: Dec 6, 2005; Te Waipounamu pride

miss_chaos posted:

Came to post this. Hone being Hone is a really long way away from casually tossing such an explicit racist term for attention. That's the type of thing that gets someone run out of Parliament.

Hone Harawira isn't some left wing fighter like he thinks, he's just an arsehole. As his party's sole MP he can stay until 2014 if he wants because no one can push him out, he'll get away with it, but Mana loses all credibility when their leader does stuff like that.

Edit: if Mana had any credibility to start with , and that remains to be seen

More credibility in my eyes then National or it's supporters (Not that I'd vote for him mind you, we have better options thankfully).

As I've said in this thread before; a party who dodges the real issues facing the country (CHILD POVERTY) and makes out they don't exist is far far worse than a poorly chosen and likely offensive historical quote.

# ? Sep 6, 2012 03:27

edogawa rando: Mar 20, 2007

dusty posted:

I for one think his representing a constituency that has survived genocide via colonialisation, along with the Maori Party's total capitulation to the Tories in exchange for ministerial salaries and limo rides, entitles him to use the phrase "house-friend of the family" in the current context.

The use of the word "friend of the family" is rather crucial to his point, and has a specific historic currency. Here's the whole speech, with bolding to highlight relevent issues.

People bo-hoo about racism, but I actually don't see itin Hone's use of house-friend of the family. Should Hone sanitise those words becuase you feel uncomfortable? Should Malcolm X have not used the word "friend of the family" either?

What is the place of such political rhetoric? How precious are your white middle-class sensibilities, and how easily should you be offended?

I definitely agree with what you're saying here and it's also consistent with the image he's projecting of himself. The Mana Party would definitely have more in common with Malcolm X than MLK and if anything, Hone seems to be taking his cues from him, particularly when it pertains to talking about the Maori Party. It's certainly a case where it's not the word, but rather the context in which it was used that is more relevant.

It's just that I think there's a strong possibility that Hone will end up getting yelled at for using the word "friend of the family" with little attention paid to why he used it.

Varkk posted:

Mana has more credibility than the Maori Party especially when dealing with issues surrounding the Maori people and treaty rights.

Yes there are other MPs in the house who stand up for Maori issues, they just aren't the three in the Maori party.

Spot-loving-on. I can't help but feel that the Maori Party knows its in its death throes and has more or less alienated its constituency bar some die hard supporters that joined up on day 1, so Turia, Sharples and Flavell are just riding the gravy train until it reaches its final destination. I can't say I speak for Maori, but I suspect that a fair few of the Maori Party voters would feel that they were sold out for a few ministerial perks.

Also post the goods, Lemonus.

edogawa rando fucked around with this message at 04:43 on Sep 6, 2012

# ? Sep 6, 2012 04:39

roarshark: Apr 7, 2002; i got killed by black bugs on my video game

dusty posted:

I for one think his representing a constituency that has survived genocide via colonialisation, along with the Maori Party's total capitulation to the Tories in exchange for ministerial salaries and limo rides, entitles him to use the phrase "house-friend of the family" in the current context.

Genocide via colonialisation? Puh-leeze.

I think all the whining from racist rednecks about the "blaardy maaaries" is nonsense and sentiments about how the tribunal is riding the gravy train etc etc are absolute bullshit, especially when you consider the payouts government guaranteed dodgy finance companies exceeds all past payouts to Maori. It's loving stupid and they deserve to be properly compensated AND respected.

But genocide? Have you been reading too much Margaret Mutu? Or are you making fun of Turia when she dropped that clanger?

# ? Sep 6, 2012 07:40

Moo Cowabunga: Jun 15, 2009; [Office Worker.

Yeah, but who is Hone representing? A constituency predominately made up of middle class pakeha?

Just because he says the things he says doesn't mean that the rest of the country should dictate how he should represent his electorate.

Personally I don't give a toss what he says. I didn't vote for him in the last election, I'm not going to vote for him in the next election - because I can't.

He is irrelevant to me.

So I don't care.

# ? Sep 6, 2012 07:57

swampland: Oct 16, 2007; Dear Mr Cave, if you do not release the bats we will be forced to take legal action

Angry Moo Cow posted:

I'm not going to vote for him in the next election - because I can't.

What do you mean? Also adding a vote for Lemonus to spill the info. You can't just tease us like that and gently caress off.

# ? Sep 6, 2012 08:07

Ratios and Tendency: Apr 23, 2010; MURALI

roarshark posted:

Genocide via colonialisation? Puh-leeze.

I think all the whining from racist rednecks about the "blaardy maaaries" is nonsense and sentiments about how the tribunal is riding the gravy train etc etc are absolute bullshit, especially when you consider the payouts government guaranteed dodgy finance companies exceeds all past payouts to Maori. It's loving stupid and they deserve to be properly compensated AND respected.

But genocide? Have you been reading too much Margaret Mutu? Or are you making fun of Turia when she dropped that clanger?

Genocide posted:

The deliberate and systematic destruction, in whole or in part, of an ethnic, racial, religious, or national group.

By 1900 the Maori population had more than halved in the wake of European colonisation.

?

# ? Sep 6, 2012 10:21

Bushmaori: Mar 8, 2009

Ratios and Tendency posted:

Deliberate
?

# ? Sep 6, 2012 10:29

roarshark: Apr 7, 2002; i got killed by black bugs on my video game

Ratios and Tendency posted:

By 1900 the Maori population had more than halved in the wake of European colonisation.

?

I find it distasteful to compare the wrongs and deaths the Maori experienced to actual state-run genocide, but I suppose things are that black and white to some people.

# ? Sep 6, 2012 10:40

dusty: Nov 30, 2004

roarshark posted:

Genocide via colonialisation? Puh-leeze.

But genocide? Have you been reading too much Margaret Mutu? Or are you making fun of Turia when she dropped that clanger?

No, the findings of the Waitangi Tribunal are pretty clear in this respect - the systemic elimination of language, the forceful relocation of peoples, the seizure of land and resources leaving Maori to starve... The Tribunal has gone so far as to describe treatment of Maori by the Crown in a specific instance in Taranaki as a "holocaust" - which is a bit dramatic as I think that phrase really only should be used in instances involving gas ovens. But regular old vanilla-flavoured genocide: that's a pretty fair and even description of part of the effect of the act of colonialisation here imho.

I think you're being wilfully ignorant of history - which explains why you find the use of the word distasteful. Poor poppet: having to encounter unpalettable truths!

dusty fucked around with this message at 10:53 on Sep 6, 2012

# ? Sep 6, 2012 10:50

Ratios and Tendency: Apr 23, 2010; MURALI

roarshark posted:

I find it distasteful to compare the wrongs and deaths the Maori experienced to actual state-run genocide, but I suppose things are that black and white to some people.

I left my post as an open ended question intentionally. The New Zealand Wars are a complex issue and there can be a debate about whether genocide is appropriate but it isn't absurd like you tried to make out.

edit:^^^or that too.

# ? Sep 6, 2012 10:53

miss_chaos: Apr 7, 2006

FWIW, my comments about the relevance of Mana were more reflective of the fact that maybe they do represent Maori interests more/better, but that good work is constantly overshadowed by Hone saying something stupid. The only time Mana gets in the news is when Hone is off running his mouth again. Is there room for an activist driven Maori-based party in the NZ Parliament? Absolutely. But it seems to be the Hone show.

The Maori Party is almost certainly held up by its hold on the Maori electorate seats rather than an overarching party platform that people are voting for, and it's seat to party vote ratio reflects that. There's a ton of arguments to be made about why they are failing Maori. I just don't think Hone going around calling people niggers contributes to a meaningful discourse on how problems effecting Maori can be solved, regardless of the historical context or why he used it.

I think the Maori Party could be on its way out if Labour gave half a gently caress about winning back the Maori seats. I'm surprised they haven't worked out that that's a good strategy to cut down National. I also suspect they would rather chew their own arm off than work with someone like Harawira. You can't enact any change if you've pissed off all the people who can help you make it.

miss_chaos fucked around with this message at 11:24 on Sep 6, 2012

# ? Sep 6, 2012 11:20

roarshark: Apr 7, 2002; i got killed by black bugs on my video game

dusty posted:

No, the findings of the Waitangi Tribunal are pretty clear in this respect - the systemic elimination of language, the forceful relocation of peoples, the seizure of land and resources leaving Maori to starve... The Tribunal has gone so far as to describe treatment of Maori by the Crown in a specific instance in Taranaki as a "holocaust" - which is a bit dramatic as I think that phrase really only should be used in instances involving gas ovens. But regular old vanilla-flavoured genocide: that's a pretty fair and even description of part of the effect of the act of colonialisation here imho.

I think you're being wilfully ignorant of history - which explains why you find the use of the word distasteful. Poor poppet: having to encounter unpalettable truths!

The attempt to eradicate the language in particular was dreadful, which is why when anyone has a whinge about making Maori compulsary in schools I want them to shut up.

What was the specific incident in Taranaki? I don't know anything about it.

# ? Sep 6, 2012 11:38

Moongrave: Jun 19, 2004; Finally Living Rent Free

The reason the Maori party are failing Maori is because they have been more concerned with staying in power than trying to enact any meaningful change that might help the people they specifically get seats to represent.

# ? Sep 6, 2012 12:08

Sylink: Apr 17, 2004

Hey, this might not be the place for this but I am considering emigrating to NZ from the US.

I'm white and relatively well educated and I work in a universally needed field and so does my wife.

Any advice on whether this is a terrible idea or not?

# ? Sep 6, 2012 12:54

Moongrave: Jun 19, 2004; Finally Living Rent Free

Sylink posted:

Hey, this might not be the place for this but I am considering emigrating to NZ from the US.

I'm white and relatively well educated and I work in a universally needed field and so does my wife.

Any advice on whether this is a terrible idea or not?

Do you like nice scenery but crap prices for everything except Japanese cars? Can you tolerate awful internet speeds for huge prices?

# ? Sep 6, 2012 13:04

emminou: May 25, 2006

Sylink posted:

Hey, this might not be the place for this but I am considering emigrating to NZ from the US.

I'm white and relatively well educated and I work in a universally needed field and so does my wife.

Any advice on whether this is a terrible idea or not?

You might find the New Zealand goon meets/ISP chat thread helpful, too.

# ? Sep 6, 2012 13:12

Halfpast_Yellow: Oct 7, 2010

Sylink posted:

Hey, this might not be the place for this but I am considering emigrating to NZ from the US.

I'm white and relatively well educated and I work in a universally needed field and so does my wife.

Any advice on whether this is a terrible idea or not?

Terrible idea. You'd be better off emigrating to Australia to live,work and play and taking holidays in NZ to experience anything worth experiencing there.

# ? Sep 6, 2012 13:13

Sylink: Apr 17, 2004

emminou posted:

You might find the New Zealand goon meets/ISP chat thread helpful, too.

I'll check this out thank you.

Halfpast_Yellow posted:

Terrible idea. You'd be better off emigrating to Australia to live,work and play and taking holidays in NZ to experience anything worth experiencing there.

We are trying to escape the current US political climate and go somewhere that actually has a slightly better society/universal healthcare (mostly the latter) and we know people in NZ already.

OLIVIAS WILDE RIDER posted:

Do you like nice scenery but crap prices for everything except Japanese cars? Can you tolerate awful internet speeds for huge prices?

yes I DO!

# ? Sep 6, 2012 13:25

klen dool: May 7, 2007; Okay well me being wrong in some limited situations doesn't change my overall point.

Sylink posted:

Hey, this might not be the place for this but I am considering emigrating to NZ from the US.

I'm white and relatively well educated and I work in a universally needed field and so does my wife.

Any advice on whether this is a terrible idea or not?

Come on over and harp on constantly about how lovely our houses are! That's what all the foreigners at my work do

# ? Sep 6, 2012 13:34

Halfpast_Yellow: Oct 7, 2010

Sylink posted:

We are trying to escape the current US political climate and go somewhere that actually has a slightly better society/universal healthcare (mostly the latter) and we know people in NZ already.

Australia has Medicare, their public health system is superior to the New Zealand one.
Society is very much the same, though NZers IMO tend to be a little bit more sadsack and carry bigger chips on their shoulders on the whole.
Australia has a much better economy, is cheaper, will pay you more, weather is superior and generally a sunnier outlook on life.

# ? Sep 6, 2012 13:37

Sylink: Apr 17, 2004

Halfpast_Yellow posted:

Australia has Medicare, their public health system is superior to the New Zealand one.
Society is very much the same, though NZers IMO tend to be a little bit more sadsack and carry bigger chips on their shoulders on the whole.
Australia has a much better economy, is cheaper, will pay you more, weather is superior and generally a sunnier outlook on life.

Interesting. Although my wife has an eye defect so lovely (I assume you mean cloudy/non sunny weather) is actually better for her.

# ? Sep 6, 2012 14:24

ledge: Jun 10, 2003

Halfpast_Yellow posted:

Australia has Medicare, their public health system is superior to the New Zealand one.
Society is very much the same, though NZers IMO tend to be a little bit more sadsack and carry bigger chips on their shoulders on the whole.
Australia has a much better economy, is cheaper, will pay you more, weather is superior and generally a sunnier outlook on life.

Man, self-loathing Kiwis are the worst.

I love living in NZ and you couldn't pay me enough to move to Australia.

I live out in the country with half an acre with chickens and pigs and beautiful scenery, yet work is only 45 minutes door to door. You can't get this anywhere else.

Oz has Sydney and Melbourne. And the weather over there can get really unpleasant. (40�? gently caress off)

# ? Sep 6, 2012 20:32

Project M.A.M.I.L.: Apr 30, 2007; Older, balder, fatter...

You can move to NZ on the condition that you encourage NZers to appreciate good hamburgers and pizza, not the crap that passes for them in most places.
California burgers :allears:

# ? Sep 6, 2012 21:02

Hoplosternum: Jun 2, 2010

There's also a living in NZ thread in the travel section of Ask & Tell that is more positive if you'd like a balanced view before deciding. Sorry can't link as on my phone, it may be a page or 2 back. This thread is more about bitching about politics and other stupid stuff that happens here.

# ? Sep 6, 2012 22:06

dusty: Nov 30, 2004

roarshark posted:

What was the specific incident in Taranaki? I don't know anything about it.

Here's a page exploring the use of the term and providing some context: http://www.converge.org.nz/pma/tstat.htm . Not sure where the original Tribunal findings reside.

Personally I think trying to applying labels like "holocaust" as if trying to establish some sort of franchise on horror, or branding statement about the events, is completely tone deaf and kind of offensive.

But meh, splitting hairs and all that: it's not any decent society can condone the actions undertaken by the Crown, and I for one am glad we've made some small steps towards redress.

---

And in happy news I was thrilled this morning to see this: http://dimpost.wordpress.com/2012/09/07/exit-pagani-pursued-by-a-bear/

DimPost posted:

Apparently John Pagani has stepped down as Labour�s strategist to go and work as a lobbyist for the mining industry.
...
Pagani knew one big thing: post-Helen Clark New Zealand Labour was homologous to UK Labour in the 1990s, captured by far-left extremists, it needed to move to the right to win re-election. Unfortunately the big thing Pagani knew was completely wrong. Labour lost its extremists several decades ago and won three elections campaigning on the values Pagani thought were anathema to the public. National was forced to embrace those policies and values to win government.

I suspect I speak for pretty much everyone on the left when I say that the mining industry is welcome to him.

# ? Sep 6, 2012 23:21

miss_chaos: Apr 7, 2006

Kind of funny how Pagani has gone to the mining industry and Goff's chief of staff has gone to Sky City casino after a large part of the Labour Party platform they were in charge of managing was fundamentally against those two things.

# ? Sep 6, 2012 23:31

sanchez: Feb 26, 2003

ledge posted:

I live out in the country with half an acre with chickens and pigs and beautiful scenery, yet work is only 45 minutes door to door. You can't get this anywhere else.

You can get that nearly anywhere.

# ? Sep 7, 2012 00:58

Moo Cowabunga: Jun 15, 2009; [Office Worker.

swampland posted:

What do you mean?

I am not Maori, I am not on the Maori roll. I can not vote for him even if I wanted to, but the point of his seat isn't so that someone like me can vote for him, he is there to serve his Maori electorate. Not me.

Thus, I do not care about his actions. They are irrelevant to me.

# ? Sep 7, 2012 02:05

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? Jun 15, 2024 12:12

Varkk: Apr 17, 2004

ledge posted:

I live out in the country with half an acre with chickens and pigs and beautiful scenery, yet work is only 45 minutes door to door. You can't get this anywhere else.

This but 2ha and no pigs. Work is 15 minutes door to door.

# ? Sep 7, 2012 03:01

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