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Echophonic posted:I hope Evil Mastermind doesn't mind, but here's the post from the Indie Games thread a while back. I don't think this is the link in the OP. Thank you! Here's a link that will get you The Grotesque in exchange for doing a good deed, if anyone needs it.
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Sep 8, 2012 04:41
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I did that a week back, The Grotesque is a pretty cool playbook. I also really dig the method he's using for distributing it. It's a lot better than some of the cutthroat nonsense going around for playbook trading. Edit: Something I came across in my travels. A "beta" reskin for AW called Aeon World. It's a hack based on the least creepy game ever, CthulhuTech! Here's the link over on Scribd. Subject matter aside, these playbooks are slick as hell, but I have no idea if they're any good. Echophonic fucked around with this message at 05:48 on Sep 8, 2012 |
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Sep 8, 2012 05:28
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Scrape posted:Thank you! Here's a link that will get you The Grotesque in exchange for doing a good deed, if anyone needs it. So, can anyone tell me in vague terms about the Grotesque? I'm probably going to do something to benefit society and grab it, but I'm curious about what I'm going to get.
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Sep 8, 2012 06:06
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Mr. Maltose posted:So, can anyone tell me in vague terms about the Grotesque? I'm probably going to do something to benefit society and grab it, but I'm curious about what I'm going to get. It's Weird+2, with generally low cool, gets access to a bunch of mutations, 2 from a list of about 7 and then there's a few moves that are like mutations. These includes spores, scales, venom, drones, and vampire fangs.
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Sep 8, 2012 17:46
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Tasoth posted:I tossed up Domun as a name. Is there any criticism of the PB? I figured there might be some rough areas or things that don't work. I honestly want it to be usable without being game breaking or unwieldy. It seems like a functional playbook to me already, though there's some areas that I, personally, would fiddle with. Some thoughts: The Hardware Upgrade move is cool in concept, but has a steep price. Maybe my game was the exception, but I figure at max you're going to resolve a front a session. The bonuses are pretty piddly for an event that's not going to happen much - I say either beef them up or make the activating condition easier. Maybe something like: when you destroy a robot and gut it for parts.... Marking XP should be a bonus on the list either way, I'd say. Related to this, I think the flavor bits are good, but you need a move that really reflects that this character is meant to fight machines. Additional harm against machines or robots, maybe, or a move that makes them a more effective hunter of same. You might consider a variant of the Savvyhead's move which tells them about an object with some robo-related questions. Also, unlike every other character, they're physically a machine. That should make some difference in how they feel pain and suffer damage. Do they feel it? Can they ignore it? What effect does that have? Do they have a move that lets them cheat certain death one time, staggering out of the flames/collapsed building/whatever as a busted up and vengeful steel skeleton? (Because c'mon, they totally should) That Rough Beast fucked around with this message at 18:22 on Sep 8, 2012 |
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Sep 8, 2012 18:17
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That Rough Beast posted:The Hardware Upgrade move is cool in concept, but has a steep price. Maybe my game was the exception, but I figure at max you're going to resolve a front a session. The bonuses are pretty piddly for an event that's not going to happen much - I say either beef them up or make the activating condition easier. Maybe something like: when you destroy a robot and gut it for parts.... Marking XP should be a bonus on the list either way, I'd say. I agree with this. Destroying a robot and gutting it for parts makes way more sense fictionally, as well. You are literally upgrading yourself. If you think that's too easy, you could say "When you disable an advanced robot without destroying it completely..." which is much more specific and has some fun implications, like "Don't shoot it! I need it!" That Rough Beast posted:Also, unlike every other character, they're physically a machine. That should make some difference in how they feel pain and suffer damage. Do they feel it? Can they ignore it? What effect does that have? Well, they have Reinforced Structure: You take -1-harm while in battle, which I think is pretty close. As for a bonus to fighting machines, at first I agreed but after thinking about it, I don't think it's necessary. I mean, the playbook lays out that you're a machine and you're made for fighting, but I think that what you do with those fighting abilities is up to you. You're built for combat. You're at war with machines. I don't think you need +1harm to robots to make that clear, the player will know what to do with those abilities.
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Sep 8, 2012 18:35
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That Rough Beast posted:
Scrape posted:I agree with this. Destroying a robot and gutting it for parts makes way more sense fictionally, as well. You are literally upgrading yourself. If you think that's too easy, you could say "When you disable an advanced robot without destroying it completely..." which is much more specific and has some fun implications, like "Don't shoot it! I need it!" Thanks for the feedback. I was unsure of how to do the Hardware Upgrade move but still wanted to toss something in that reflected Megaman, which is an obvious inspiration. I like the concept of not having to resolve the front, but relying on a machines or robots in a game makes it too dependent. Maybe as an option for when you go looking in a market place or set the word out you can instead choose to take hold based on how much you spend in barter, maybe with a roll similar to how an Angel heals people/barter works. The move also partially reflects the Hunter getting an upgrade and completely taking its opponents by surprise, but their battle plans adapting once its been exposed. And Scrape is right. While the Machine Hunter is obviously a product for war, specifically to counter machines, much of the source material often reflects the robots being the host human character. I know it's a function of the narrative, but building a character you can still play and have decisions affect should be paramount. They're also different in regards to damage in how they recover. They need repairs, either by a savvyhead, a NPC the MC has for it or someone who has hold from the special move. There is no self repairing below 9:00 and inability for the most common source of healing (Angels) to repair them. Outside of that, I think debilities are fine as they reflect horrid damage that can not simply be repaired.
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Sep 8, 2012 19:27
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Tasoth posted:Thanks for the feedback. I was unsure of how to do the Hardware Upgrade move but still wanted to toss something in that reflected Megaman, which is an obvious inspiration. I like the concept of not having to resolve the front, but relying on a machines or robots in a game makes it too dependent. Maybe it could be something more generally totemic and ghoulish, like "When you decorate yourself with the desecrated remains of a fallen enemy...". e: I say make it a roll+Weird for either 3 or 1 hold which you can spend on things like inflicting extra harm or intimidating people into staying the gently caress out of your way. Don't even worry about giving the player a hard choice, because presumably the in-fiction consequences of this kind of behavior will be some serious poo poo. Doc Hawkins fucked around with this message at 19:35 on Sep 8, 2012 |
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Sep 8, 2012 19:30
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I think Hardware Upgrade should come from defeating or scavenging robots/machines, personally. What about "When you cannibalize a piece of advanced machinery..." That could be a robot you disabled but left functional, or it could be some weird location in the wastes, or it could be a hard-to-find bartered thing (strings attached, of course). But no matter what, it's definitely something you worked for. Does that work?
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Sep 8, 2012 19:35
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Yeah, I can see both perspectives. I guess it's a question of if you want it to be more "badass who happens to be a robot" or "badass who hunts his own kind (who are robots)." Scrape's suggestion might kind of make up the difference there. And hey, it gives you a reason to harass the Quarantine, the Savvyhead, and especially the Hoarder.
That Rough Beast fucked around with this message at 20:13 on Sep 8, 2012 |
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Sep 8, 2012 19:41
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If you based this on Casshern (SINS), then the cannibalizing of other machines makes more sense for the Move.
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Sep 8, 2012 20:12
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I like ideas that have come up. The +weird makes sense, but instead of just machinery, I like the concept of 'Whenever you integrate something from another thing...' to reflect stealing memories, patterns of thought and maybe the physical shape of another. Then use the hold to increase harm and maybe make someone give into your demands? Kind of like a bigger, nastier going aggro without the uncertainty of the roll for the move.
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Sep 8, 2012 21:11
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That Rough Beast posted:...it gives you a reason to harass the Quarantine, the Savvyhead, and especially the Hoarder. Yeah, totally. You want built-in reasons that the characters might interact or rely on each other and this fits the bill. That wasn't even my original intention but it's a great side effect. ApocWorld games are built on player goals and needs, and the inter-party tension that comes from overlapping and conflicting goals. A good playbooks will have those baked in, I think. Picture this: the Machine Hunter wants a piece for his upgrade, then you tell the Savvyhead he needs it for some project. If you're lucky then there's a Hoarder around, too. Daaaaamn
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Sep 8, 2012 21:27
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I've been mulling over ideas for doing a Romance of the Three Kingdoms hack, and I'm realizing just how important names are. Like, having an evocative name for your playbook/move/stat is 99% of the job. Even the name of the game does more to set the tone than any actual rule you come up with. Romance World is an entirely different game than Apocalypse Kingdoms! I'm not sure exactly what point I'm trying to get at here, except maybe that I need to improve my vocabulary.
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Sep 8, 2012 22:47
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The same thing applies to naming your Stats and Moves. I think AW stats are brilliant because they're just the adjectives you'd use to describe the character. This guy is Hot. That chick is Sharp. You're acting Weird. They're instantly descriptive and they don't really need a ton of explanation once you get it. They impart a certain gritty noir/action feel immediately.
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Sep 8, 2012 23:21
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I think AW's stats are really interesting, because they're all grounded in the character's personality and behavior, instead of trying to objectively model their capabilities. And, yeah, names for stats is one of the things I'm struggling with. (I only just started this idea, OK?) Honestly, all I have so far is that the game is Apocalypse Kingdoms, everyone will have a some variety of when you lead your men move, and... that's about it. Awesome names for things are hard! I think the solution is to try (yet again) to get through reading it, and take note of every evocative title they give a character.
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Sep 8, 2012 23:36
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Tendales posted:I think AW's stats are really interesting, because they're all grounded in the character's personality and behavior, instead of trying to objectively model their capabilities. Courage, Fury, Grace, Virtue, Sagacity, Cunning, Unorthodox, etc. What are the main attributes you want to model? Most of my experience comes Dynasty Warriors, and most of the traits shown are some form of courage, military might, courtly grace/knowledge, tactical genius and some form of flaw that leads to a heroic or tragic demise.
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Sep 9, 2012 00:10
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Echophonic posted:I've been kind of looking around for the remaining few fan-made playbooks that aren't in EM's (awesome and generously given) set. It looks like the main ones that I haven't been able to nail down are The Spectacle, a tri-fold The Boy and His Dog, and the supplemental The Witch King. There's also one called the Mendicant that I really can't find too much info on. Anything I'm missing? I'm not sure a trifold exists for The Boy and His Dog, and I don't know if the other guy ever got back to you, but for public consumption, here's the Spectacle, and the Witch King and Mendicant supplements. Also possibly of interest are the Turncoat and Last Child, which have trifold versions buried somewhere in their threads.
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Sep 9, 2012 03:34
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Blind Azathoth posted:I'm not sure a trifold exists for The Boy and His Dog, and I don't know if the other guy ever got back to you, but for public consumption, here's the Spectacle, and the Witch King and Mendicant supplements. Ooh, neat, thanks! I added these to the zip of everything in the second post.
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Sep 9, 2012 03:50
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Blind Azathoth posted:Also possibly of interest are the Turncoat and Last Child, which have trifold versions buried somewhere in their threads. I've always really liked the Turncoat; it's not for every party but it seems really fun with the right people. I couldn't find the Boy and His Dog in that zip file. 
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Sep 9, 2012 04:10
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Scrape posted:I've always really liked the Turncoat; it's not for every party but it seems really fun with the right people. I couldn't find the Boy and His Dog in that zip file.
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Sep 9, 2012 04:16
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Thanks, Azathoth! I'm working on a trade that might actually have Boy and His Dog. I'll post it up if the guy gets back to me. Are there any good trifold templates kicking around? I wouldn't mind taking a crack some of these that don't have them. I found one by the guy who did Heralds of Hell, but it's not a trifold. Edit: gently caress it, I'll do it the hard way in Paint.NET. The Horseman looks pretty great so far. Echophonic fucked around with this message at 05:44 on Sep 9, 2012 |
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Sep 9, 2012 04:23
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Tendales posted:I've been mulling over ideas for doing a Romance of the Three Kingdoms hack, and I'm realizing just how important names are. Like, having an evocative name for your playbook/move/stat is 99% of the job. Even the name of the game does more to set the tone than any actual rule you come up with. Romance World is an entirely different game than Apocalypse Kingdoms! Funny you mentioned this. I just realized that if you write down the name of the move and "When you...", the rest of it will come. That's about all I remember from the bender I've been on. I did find this on my iPad though... Scout Commander and Owning a Ship Somewhere at the end of this mostly incomprehensible file are some more moves relating to ships... Moves I could have sworn I spent the last few days drinking and watching college football with buddies instead of writing, but modification dates don't lie.
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Sep 9, 2012 09:51
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Finally got that The Horseman trifold done. Tell me what you think! It's not all fancy with selectable text since I don't have InDesign or anything, but it looks pretty nice printed out, as far as I'm concerned. The Horseman Trifold
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Sep 10, 2012 17:46
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I just posted this in the Dungeon World thread, but I wanna share it here, too. I only just now found this awesome short article by John Harper that explains "soft moves" and "hard moves" really well. I can't remember seeing it posted here, apologies if it has. It really lays out the MC Move structure in an easy-to-understand way.
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Sep 11, 2012 05:26
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Yeah, that's a good one, and it reminded me of the classic Harper AW post: Seize By Force is a Peripheral Move.quote:It's one of the least-used moves in the game (or it should be). The fictional actions it represents are unusual to the point of almost never happening. Virtually every situation where seize may come up is better covered by a combination of act under fire and go aggro (plus some of the optional battle moves, occasionally).
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Sep 11, 2012 05:33
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Doc Hawkins posted:Yeah, that's a good one, and it reminded me of the classic Harper AW post: Seize By Force is a Peripheral Move. Yeah, that's important. I definitely wish that I'd read that before my first AW campaign. I blame the book, which doesn't clearly express the difference between the two. A lot of people get confused, because Seize seems to have more "battle" options, and "Aggro" is sort of phrased as if it's just threats. In reality, Aggro is the catch-all violence move and Seize is for very limited, "I am willing to get hurt while doing this" actions. Harper even says he straight cut it from the Basic Moves list because of this. I really it'd been clarified for me before I ran the game, because we used Seize a lot for fights and the PCs got hosed up constantly. It was still fun, but fighting was ultra-deadly.
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Sep 11, 2012 05:53
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Sooo Aggro would be throwing a punch or firing at a target center mass, whereas Seize by Force would be running across open terrain exposed to fire in order to plant a bomb on a wall/grab someone who's injured and immobile in the no-man's land?
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Sep 11, 2012 15:34
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I had this big thing in another thread about the differences, I'll see if I can find it. What it boils down to is that "going aggro" is when you threaten someone to get what you want, and "seize by force" is the follow-through. Running across the field would be "acting under fire".
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Sep 11, 2012 15:38
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Oh, right, I have search now.quote:
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Sep 11, 2012 15:42
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Oooooh, okay. And likewise trying to sneak through a room and grab something without being detected would also be acting under fire, yes? Where the "fire" is being discovered?
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Sep 11, 2012 16:14
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InfiniteJesters posted:Oooooh, okay.
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Sep 11, 2012 16:18
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Seize By Force is always trading harm for harm, even if you can mitigate it. Go Aggro isn't just 'demand something or you get hurt', it's also there for asymmetrical fights. You really just need to look at the fiction - does it make sense that succeeding in attacking this person would lead to you being hurt, too, even though you beat them? If so, it's Seize By Force. If the violence occurs in such a way that they shouldn't really be able to hurt you back if you win - at least not in the same 'action' - it's either Go Aggro or Act Under Fire, with 'inflict Harm as established' the end result of a successful Act Under Fire or two. Which is why I agree with John Harper. Very rarely do I see characters hurl themselves bodily at their enemy, instead of taking cover, establishing an ambush, or otherwise Acting Under Fire to get to the point where they could Go Aggro. The Gunlugger can do it, but the Gunlugger is built for it. Seize By Force is only used when both sides know they're in a fight, are okay with that fact, and really want to ruin each other, even at their own potential detriment.
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Sep 11, 2012 16:21
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quote is not edit
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Sep 11, 2012 16:22
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BryanChavez has it right. The moves are confusing because Seize has a bunch of options that look like battle moves, and Aggro reads like a threat. But Seize is not the follow-through move. Seize by Force is explicitly "I am not protecting myself, I am going to take Harm no matter what." Go Aggro can be used for all combat, in combination with Act Under Fire. Seize explicitly makes the user take Harm as part of the roll. You are much better off using Aggro, which doesn't hurt you as part of the move. Read the Harper article a couple times, he lays it pretty well. Seize is a peripheral move for very specific situations. Aggro is the general move: "I shoot him." The list of MC responses for Aggro keep a battle moving: the enemies barricade themselves, they surrender, etc. The only possible outcome for Seize is trading Harm. Much less interesting for the players, the MC, and the game fiction. It took me a long time to grasp this, because Seize looks like the follow-through battle move. It's not; the book is poorly written here.
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Sep 11, 2012 16:48
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I just wanted to say again thanks to Evil Mastermind for his F&F writeup of Apocalypse World. It was what got me to buy it in the first place.  Too bad everyone in PBP is running Dungeon World and not Apocalypse World. I'm fine with Dungeon World! I just wish there was more ApocWorld to go with it!
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Sep 11, 2012 23:47
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InfiniteJesters posted:I just wanted to say again thanks to Evil Mastermind for his F&F writeup of Apocalypse World. It was what got me to buy it in the first place. I am just about to start a recruiting thread for AW. Just gotta do the last bit of rereading the core book. This book is kind of magical, every time I read it I get a terrible urge to play the game!
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Sep 12, 2012 00:15
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Cyphoderus posted:I am just about to start a recruiting thread for AW. Just gotta do the last bit of rereading the core book. AWWW MOTHERFUCK COUNT ME IN
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Sep 12, 2012 00:29
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InfiniteJesters posted:I just wanted to say again thanks to Evil Mastermind for his F&F writeup of Apocalypse World. It was what got me to buy it in the first place. 
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Sep 12, 2012 00:44
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Cyphoderus posted:I am just about to start a recruiting thread for AW. Just gotta do the last bit of rereading the core book. Totally interested in this!
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Sep 12, 2012 00:52
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