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XyloJW posted:To be fair, Mitt Romney is playing political football with it. He immediately trotted out "Obama apologizing for America" poo poo. http://www.cnn.com/2012/09/12/world/meast/egpyt-us-embassy-protests/ The Cairo embassy's response on twitter was more than a little ham handed (and from what I've seen they've actually taken down the specific tweet that a lot of people were zeroing in on), but taking that and trying to turn it into Obama apologizing for America is quite the stretch.
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Sep 12, 2012 11:53
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Vile Rat, your family is in my prayers... Rest in peace.
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Sep 12, 2012 11:53
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To be fair, Numismancer (Mittens) posted his name first.
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Sep 12, 2012 11:53
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KaneTW posted:To be fair, Numismancer (Mittens) posted his name first. And the only reason he knew was likely a message from Vilerat's family. The entire reason you withhold that information is to keep families from having to get the news from a media source. Since he found out from the family, there isn't anything ethically wrong with scooping the state department.
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Sep 12, 2012 12:03
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Judging by Twitter and other sites it seems there's a lot of revulsion at this among everyone, first US ambassador to be killed since 1979 in Kabul, so it's a big story. The US reaction will be interesting, especially as it's election session. I don't expect any invasion of Libya or anything silly like that though.
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Sep 12, 2012 12:03
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Brown Moses posted:Judging by Twitter and other sites it seems there's a lot of revulsion at this among everyone, first US ambassador to be killed since 1979 in Kabul, so it's a big story. The US reaction will be interesting, especially as it's election session. I don't expect any invasion of Libya or anything silly like that though. Withdrawal from the Arab World (not completely, but politically) seems plausible.
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Sep 12, 2012 12:07
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Kekeke! posted:And the only reason he knew was likely a message from Vilerat's family. The entire reason you withhold that information is to keep families from having to get the news from a media source. Since he found out from the family, there isn't anything ethically wrong with scooping the state department. Yeah, that's perfectly fine; I meant that in response to Brown Moses' "Eurogamer have rather dickishly named him before the State Department has confirmed it". Then again, Eurogamer is a far larger site than themittani.com
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Sep 12, 2012 12:08
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Brown Moses posted:Judging by Twitter and other sites it seems there's a lot of revulsion at this among everyone, first US ambassador to be killed since 1979 in Kabul, so it's a big story. The US reaction will be interesting, especially as it's election session. I don't expect any invasion of Libya or anything silly like that though. Especially since the government wasn't complicit, since it sounds like the Libyan security forces attempted to repel the assault, they just weren't able to. Assault on a diplomatic mission is always a big deal, but there's a pretty significant difference in appropriate response between "government stood by and allowed the mission to be violated and/or actively supported it" and "government attempted to keep the mission secure but was unable to." Xandu posted:Withdrawal from the Arab World (not completely, but politically) seems plausible. I think that'd be a pretty big stretch. The murder of an Ambassador is definitely a big deal, but I mean...we had an entire Embassy taken over with dozens of individuals held hostage for over a year, and that didn't drive a withdrawal from the region at all. * I know, Arab != Iran but the point stands for the larger "Middle East," especially as perceived by the American public. iyaayas01 fucked around with this message at 12:14 on Sep 12, 2012 |
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Sep 12, 2012 12:09
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Brown Moses posted:Judging by Twitter and other sites it seems there's a lot of revulsion at this among everyone, first US ambassador to be killed since 1979 in Kabul, so it's a big story. The US reaction will be interesting, especially as it's election session. I don't expect any invasion of Libya or anything silly like that though. I'm waiting for Obama's reaction also. Hm..
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Sep 12, 2012 12:09
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iyaayas01 posted:The Cairo embassy's response on twitter was more than a little ham handed (and from what I've seen they've actually taken down the specific tweet that a lot of people were zeroing in on), but taking that and trying to turn it into Obama apologizing for America is quite the stretch. Apparently the Cairo embassy put out the statement condemning the movie before the protests began, but that was lost on critics who thought that it was in response to the protests. It was taken down, but here is the text: quote:U.S. Embassy Condemns Religious Incitement And here is Rience Priebus on the issue: 
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Sep 12, 2012 12:11
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The reaction of journalists and Libyans alike is of total revulsion, I've not seen a reaction this strong for a long time. Russia Today has a video of the attack, pretty horrible to watch so I'd advise against it.
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Sep 12, 2012 12:11
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iyaayas01 posted:Especially since the government wasn't complicit, since it sounds like the Libyan security forces attempted to repel the assault, they just weren't able to. Assault on a diplomatic mission is always a big deal, but there's a pretty significant difference in appropriate response between "government stood by and allowed the mission to be violated and/or actively supported it" and "government attempted to keep the mission secure but was unable to." The issue is the proliferation of Salafi groups, and whether the government has allowed them or simply doesn't have the capacity to stop them, not necessarily the government's action in this specific incidence. The real question is what embassy security was doing. It's pretty rare for embassies or even consulates in the Middle East to be so easily accessible. Especially with an ambassador being killed.
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Sep 12, 2012 12:12
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KaneTW posted:Yeah, that's perfectly fine; I meant that in response to Brown Moses' "Eurogamer have rather dickishly named him before the State Department has confirmed it". Then again, Eurogamer is a far larger site than themittani.com Several sites posted similar news including Vile Rat's real name, no reason to single out one of them. It's not like it couldn't have been found easily enough even without Numismancer's post.
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Sep 12, 2012 12:13
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I hope there is not either a violent backlash or a scapegoating of the local culture / religion. Libya's a post-revolution country, and desperate reactionaries - as they always do - want to re-assert control through use of force. I mean, that's why the embassy staff was deployed there: they wanted to do the right thing and get the ball rolling on a safe, stable state. gently caress those reactionaries.
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Sep 12, 2012 12:14
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Decius posted:Several sites posted similar news including Vile Rat's real name, no reason to single out one of them. It's not like it couldn't have been found easily enough even without Numismancer's post. Fair enough, looks like mainstream journalists are picking up on those articles now as well. I've had about 3 hours sleep so I'm not really very sharp this morning.
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Sep 12, 2012 12:14
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According to an Al Jazeera reporter, it wasn't a pre-meditated attack. The sequence of events is a group of fundamentalist Islamic people hear about the uploading of an offensive video to youtube and proceed to go into the streets, shouting for people to come out and attack the embassy. This they then proceed to do. It wasn't a planned event to tie in with 9/11 or anything, it was a spur-of-the-moment attack. The real issue that the Libyan officials are now dealing with is how to deal with heavily armed minorities able to rally and do extreme damage when their own forces are drastically under-armed to defend themselves and others.
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Sep 12, 2012 12:19
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Plavski posted:According to an Al Jazeera reporter, it wasn't a pre-meditated attack.
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Sep 12, 2012 12:21
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Xandu posted:The issue is the proliferation of Salafi groups, and whether the government has allowed them or simply doesn't have the capacity to stop them, not necessarily the government's action in this specific incidence. That's a fair point. As for the security, remember that external security of diplomatic missions is the responsibility of the host nation...the Marines and DSS folks are primarily responsible for internal security only. That said, it's still a good point regarding being easily accessible. If I had to guess I'd say it probably had something to do with the fact that all the facilities in Libya sat dormant for 25 years, since we closed the facilities and more or less broke off relations (although not officially) from 1980 until the mid 2000s...I could see the facilities not yet being upgraded to have the most current stand-off/barricades/etc, especially given the turmoil with the revolution.
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Sep 12, 2012 12:21
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Plavski posted:According to an Al Jazeera reporter, it wasn't a pre-meditated attack. The report I'm reading suggests that the attack may have been organized by Gaddafi loyalists in response to the arrest of one of his intelligence ministers. ...Honestly, I'd say almost all of these reports are too early to draw reliable conclusions from. We'll probably have a clear picture of exactly how spontaneous or not the attack was in a few days. EDIT: quote:The real question is what embassy security was doing. It's pretty rare for embassies or even consulates in the Middle East to be so easily accessible. Especially with an ambassador being killed. Early reports are saying that the Libyan security guards did try to repel the attackers, but were unable to prevent them from storming the embassy. I'm not exactly sure what that means, but (allegedly) they didn't just let the mob walk in. The Ender fucked around with this message at 12:26 on Sep 12, 2012 |
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Sep 12, 2012 12:23
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Xandu posted:Withdrawal from the Arab World (not completely, but politically) seems plausible. That would be nice.
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Sep 12, 2012 12:26
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Plavski posted:
Back in 1979 the American embassies in Islamabad and Tripoli were overrun and both Pakistan and Libya were highly effective police states that crushed any public protest that did not suit them. The only thing that saved the 100+ staff in Islamabad from ashpyxating was the mob leaving once night fell.
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Sep 12, 2012 12:27
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The Ender posted:
I meant DSS and marines. Even ignoring the embassy, it's not supposed to be that easy to get a US ambassador,let alone to the point where his body can be paraded around the street.
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Sep 12, 2012 12:28
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That gets me too. I thought US embassies were highly guarded near fortresses in volatile countries.
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Sep 12, 2012 12:30
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I'm pretty dumb and don't know anything, but am I naive in thinking that this whole thing is going to turn out really bad, politically, for the Egyptian Salafists?
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Sep 12, 2012 12:32
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Xandu posted:Withdrawal from the Arab World (not completely, but politically) seems plausible. I'm hoping that this is finally what makes us realize that getting involved in the diplomatic affairs of a group of religious fanatics is not going to do anything for us but cost us a lot of money and good American lives. If being the world's police means we have to lose people to ingrates in conflicts that we didn't start and have no stake in, I think it's time to turn in our badge and our gun. tekz posted:That gets me too. I thought US embassies were highly guarded near fortresses in volatile countries. The comment in the Eurogamer article leaves me to believe that the guards weren't all loyal to the embassy. It was a second hand quote from Vilerat but I would imagine they were leaving the fortress when they were killed for a reason. It certainly wouldn't be the first time this month security forces turned on us in a middle eastern country.
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Sep 12, 2012 12:33
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CNN has a report on "barrel bombs" in Syria.
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Sep 12, 2012 12:33
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Fruity Rudy posted:The video was uploaded months ago and by sheer coincidence a bunch of people randomly decided to get upset about it on 9/11? It's just... unlikely. The New York Times is reporting that a version of the video that is dubbed with Egyptian Arabic was just posted to the Internet this week.
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Sep 12, 2012 12:34
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Xandu posted:I meant DSS and marines. Even ignoring the embassy, it's not supposed to be that easy to get a US ambassador,let alone to the point where his body can be paraded around the street. Aren't Marines only posted at embassies? Wasn't this just a consulate?
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Sep 12, 2012 12:35
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Xandu posted:The issue is the proliferation of Salafi groups, and whether the government has allowed them or simply doesn't have the capacity to stop them, not necessarily the government's action in this specific incidence. (12:54:09 PM) vile_rat: assuming we don't die tonight. We saw one of our 'police' that guard the compound taking pictures -- I am so completely frustrated by this.
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Sep 12, 2012 12:35
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OMGVBFLOL posted:Aren't Marines only posted at embassies? Wasn't this just a consulate? Marines and DSS folks are posted at the consulates too. But I'll just point to my statement above about external vs internal security combined with the normal features you would expect at a U.S. overseas mission possibly not being present due to the facilities sitting dormant for 25 years. e: That's not to say that something didn't get hosed up somewhere because yeah, parading an Ambassador's body around the street is pretty beyond the pale, just that there are plausible explanations beyond "Whoops, forgot to close the gate and have the Marines show up to work today!" iyaayas01 fucked around with this message at 12:38 on Sep 12, 2012 |
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Sep 12, 2012 12:36
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tekz posted:That gets me too. I thought US embassies were highly guarded near fortresses in volatile countries. There are aren't many public buildings in the world that can withstand an unexpected assault by a determined armed mob. It's mostly jus defended by whatever security guards the host nation can or wants to provide.
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Sep 12, 2012 12:37
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These Salafist pricks were allowed to get away with all sorts of poo poo, including demolishing entire mosques. Obama has apparently ordered to increase security at embassies and consulates across the country.
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Sep 12, 2012 12:38
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Xandu posted:I meant DSS and marines. Even ignoring the embassy, it's not supposed to be that easy to get a US ambassador,let alone to the point where his body can be paraded around the street. It wasn't an embassy, it was a consulate: a few guys handling things like visas and the like.
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Sep 12, 2012 12:41
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Brother Jonathan posted:The New York Times is reporting that a version of the video that is dubbed with Egyptian Arabic was just posted to the Internet this week.
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Sep 12, 2012 12:42
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quote:Obama statement on attack in Benghazi
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Sep 12, 2012 12:42
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Most reports are indicating that consulate staff were killed by a rocket while trying to flee in a vehicle. There isn't much you can do to avoid that, beefed up security or not. I image that was the burning car from the video of the attack posted earlier. This is depressing.
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Sep 12, 2012 12:43
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Xandu posted:Withdrawal from the Arab World (not completely, but politically) seems plausible. Hahaha no. Do you think America's presence in the Arab world is just a nice gesture to the local people or something?
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Sep 12, 2012 12:43
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Fruity Rudy posted:That seems really unlikely. The video was uploaded months ago and by sheer coincidence a bunch of people randomly decided to get upset about it on 9/11? It's just... unlikely. I forget what the last analysis of one of these protests I read was, but it was basically the same thing - I think it was the Qur`an burning riots that occurred long after the incident, but because some local muckety mucks had decided to pick that time to print up a bunch of propaganda and whip up a flash mob.
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Sep 12, 2012 12:47
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Origami Dali posted:Most reports are indicating that consulate staff were killed by a rocket while trying to flee in a vehicle. There isn't much you can do to avoid that, beefed up security or not. I image that was the burning car from the video of the attack posted earlier. CNN on TV is suggesting two separate incidents. One person dead at the consulate and later the ambassador and three staff killed when trying to leave the consulate in a vehicle. Very confusing right now. *And they just confirmed on air Sean Smith as one of the dead. FuriousxGeorge fucked around with this message at 12:58 on Sep 12, 2012 |
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Sep 12, 2012 12:47
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Fruity Rudy posted:Was browsing Twitter for comments and I see that another former D&D mod, mccaine is gloating over the murder of Vilerat on Twitter: Is this guy banned? I hope so.
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