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3 Tablets Daily posted:This is meaningless. You might as well be saying "Leave in a way such that those bad things you said would happen, don't happen." I think, deciphering the glyphs, that he meant gradually pulling out? Sure, there was no time table, but the idea is there.
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Sep 16, 2012 21:06
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3 Tablets Daily posted:This is meaningless. You might as well be saying "Leave in a way such that those bad things you said would happen, don't happen." It's only meaningless if what you predicted actually has meaning. Which, given that you're both just guys on the internet, it doesn't.
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Sep 16, 2012 21:08
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^^^This man has singlehandedly ended internet debating forever. Time to pack it in guys.HMDK posted:I think, deciphering the glyphs, that he meant gradually pulling out? Sure, there was no time table, but the idea is there. I'd say that the withdrawal from Iraq (from mission accomplished to full withdrawal) is about as slow as it gets and it isn't pretty. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraqi_insurgency_%28post_U.S._withdrawal%29 3 Tablets Daily fucked around with this message at 21:16 on Sep 16, 2012 |
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Sep 16, 2012 21:08
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az jan jananam posted:Muslim fundamentalism is not, at it's core, anti-American. The cases of Libya, Syria, and Afghanistan are ones in which Muslim fundamentalists are willing to make implicit or explicit military alliances with the United States and other jahili states like Turkey. The central target of Muslim fundamentalists is not America, it is Muslims who practice under doctrinal differences, liberals, leftists, and all the others who embrace modernity, women who refuse the hijab, girls who want to get educated and seek an equal status with their male peers, religious minorities, and so on. Here's what the real destruction of fundamentalist militias looked like in the last year, historic Sufi shrines in Tripoli and Timbuktu torn down because they were deemed "deviant" to proper Islamic practice: CeeJee posted:What makes you think the Israeli and Saudi regimes would collapse if the US would stop supporting them ? Saudi Arabia is insanely wealthy and can easily get anything the US sold them somewhere else with a lot less strings attached. Israel would lose a few percent of its economy but it's not like they were defenseless in 1967 when the US was supplying their enemies with weapons. 3 Tablets Daily posted:This is meaningless. You might as well be saying "Leave in a way such that those bad things you said would happen, don't happen." HMDK posted:deciphering the glyphs 
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Sep 16, 2012 21:14
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3 Tablets Daily posted:I'd say that the withdrawal from Iraq (from mission accomplished to full withdrawal) is about as slow as it gets and it isn't pretty. Maybe invading was bad?
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Sep 16, 2012 21:16
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Mans posted:
I hope not! 'Cause I'm not a native English speaker myself!
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Sep 16, 2012 21:18
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HMDK posted:Maybe invading was bad?
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Sep 16, 2012 21:18
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3 Tablets Daily posted:Yeah, it might not have been a good idea to create a power vacuum in a religiously and ethnically divided region. So what do we do now?
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Sep 16, 2012 21:20
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Sober up and pay the bills, I suppose?
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Sep 16, 2012 21:21
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3 Tablets Daily posted:Yeah, it might not have been a good idea to create a power vacuum in a religiously and ethnically divided region. And, therefore, if the U.S. pulls out of.... it will lead to increased MURDERDEATH in.... In other words: The U.S. invades Iraq, maybe on bad intel, but hey, they "win", and then they have to stay forever. Because if not, they'll have to stay everywhere else. And the U.S. is the only power in the vacuum of outer sp... I mean the world, I mean, wait? What is your cheap point?
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Sep 16, 2012 21:24
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3 Tablets Daily posted:Sober up and pay the bills, I suppose? That would include getting out, no one wants a drunk to overstay his welcome.
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Sep 16, 2012 21:26
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I hadn't realised that attack on Camp Bastion last Friday had done so much damage  quote:KABUL, Afghanistan (Sept. 16, 2012) — Following the 14 September attack at Camp Bastion, in which two Coalition service members were killed when insurgents attacked the base’s airfield, the International Security Assistance Force provides the following additional details. Because it is still early in the investigation of this attack, this information is subject to change as new details become available: Wired has more detail: quote:The Harriers reportedly belonged to Marine Attack Squadron 211, based in Yuma, Arizona. VMA-211 had shifted its Harrier jump jets to Bastion from nearby Kandahar in July, in order to better support the British troops and Marines operating from Bastion. Harrier squadrons typically deploy with 10 jets, meaning all but two of VMA-211′s planes are now out of action. Despite this, ISAF unconvincingly insisted there would be “no impact to ground or air operations from Camp Bastion.”
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Sep 16, 2012 21:33
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az jan jananam posted:Muslim fundamentalism stuff. Pardon me for asking but are the sectarian conflicts in North Africa and the Middle East solely due to religious differences? I guess the cynic in me wants to know if there are parties involved in encouraging hard line fundamentalists in order to further their own agenda. I guess my question is if the regressives don't truly have the support of the people why do they still continue to exist? Does the intrusion of Western powers into Middle Eastern affairs (along with the region's rich history of autocratic regimes) prevent more moderate or progressive governments from forming and solidifying power in order to combat these regressive elements?
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Sep 16, 2012 21:35
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Eej posted:Pardon me for asking but are the sectarian conflicts in North Africa and the Middle East solely due to religious differences? I guess the cynic in me wants to know if there are parties involved in encouraging hard line fundamentalists in order to further their own agenda. Unfortunately it doesn't take a very large number of them to cause significant damage and harm, especially with the availability of guns and ordinance these days. Right now, no one faction, even the ones we support in the regions, are strong enough to take control unilaterally. This kind of situation has occurred a lot in human history. When you have several factions all with roughly the same capabilities, it's almost inevitable they fight it out for control, based on whatever ideology they hold.
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Sep 16, 2012 21:39
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Eej posted:Pardon me for asking but are the sectarian conflicts in North Africa and the Middle East solely due to religious differences? I guess the cynic in me wants to know if there are parties involved in encouraging hard line fundamentalists in order to further their own agenda. "Movements" of any type can exist without broad support forever. I'm just curious about the fact that the U.S. has been involved in the Mid East for decades... and has next to nothing to show for it. It's a money pit for them. Or a corpse pit. But still... Why?
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Sep 16, 2012 21:41
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HMDK posted:And, therefore, if the U.S. pulls out of.... it will lead to increased MURDERDEATH in.... In other words: The U.S. invades Iraq, maybe on bad intel, but hey, they "win", and then they have to stay forever. Because if not, they'll have to stay everywhere else. And the U.S. is the only power in the vacuum of outer sp... I mean the world, I mean, wait? What is your cheap point? My cheap point was that if the US, or more broadly, any country providing substantial financial, and material backing to unpopular middle east dictatorships, were to just drop everything and leave. Things would get a lot worse--ethnic cleansing, sectarian violence, etc--before they got better.
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Sep 16, 2012 21:43
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Brown Moses posted:Probably once a week, either that or I'm part of some giant media conspiracy and I'm secretly working for the Guardian. Most of them aren't dumb enough to bring it to Twitter though, with nearly 2k followers there's usually a few people who take umbrage to those accusation. Syrian blogging seems like a rather dangerous occupation.
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Sep 16, 2012 21:44
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Ghost of Babyhead posted:I hadn't realised that attack on Camp Bastion last Friday had done so much damage Jesus. I've never heard of anyone getting inside an airbase and damaging aircraft before. Even a forward air base like this. Young Freud fucked around with this message at 22:01 on Sep 16, 2012 |
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Sep 16, 2012 21:48
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3 Tablets Daily posted:My cheap point was that if the US, or more broadly, any country providing substantial financial, and material backing to unpopular middle east dictatorships, were to just drop everything and leave. Things would get a lot worse--ethnic cleansing, sectarian violence, etc--before they got better. You do know there are other choices that military presence?
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Sep 16, 2012 21:54
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Young Freud posted:Jesus. I've never heard of anyone getting inside an airbase and damaging aircraft before. Even a forward air base like this. Happened quite frequently during the Soviet-Afghan War in the '80s. Also happened fairly frequently during Vietnam, and both of those wars featured incursions at major airbases, like Bagram equivalents (in the case of the Soviets, some of those probably did occur at Bagram). While indirect fire has been a thing both in Afghanistan this time around and in Iraq, I'm having trouble remembering anything like this happening before in either war, although I'm honestly surprised it hasn't before.
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Sep 16, 2012 21:58
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iyaayas01 posted:Happened quite frequently during the Soviet-Afghan War in the '80s. Also happened fairly frequently during Vietnam, and both of those wars featured incursions at major airbases, like Bagram equivalents (in the case of the Soviets, some of those probably did occur at Bagram). While indirect fire has been a thing both in Afghanistan this time around and in Iraq, I'm having trouble remembering anything like this happening before in either war, although I'm honestly surprised it hasn't before. The closest I can find was the Japanese banzai charge for Airfield No. 2 at Iwo Jima during World War 2, which was pretty much the last major action on the island. I'm not sure if they damaged any planes there.
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Sep 16, 2012 22:03
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Brown Moses posted:Probably once a week, either that or I'm part of some giant media conspiracy and I'm secretly working for the Guardian. Most of them aren't dumb enough to bring it to Twitter though, with nearly 2k followers there's usually a few people who take umbrage to those accusation. I uncovered Brown Moses. Despite repeated claims, he does not live in the UK. He is hiding out in Chicago. I even took a picture to prove this: 
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Sep 16, 2012 22:04
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This video supposedly shows Amb. Stevens body being taking out of the consulate in Benghazi. It would be interesting if anyone who knew Arabic could translate anything interesting that was being said. They seem to be dragging his body out of the building and very happy about it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMSnyOMRXos [edit] They apparently are happy because they think he's alive? Brown Moses fucked around with this message at 22:13 on Sep 16, 2012 |
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Sep 16, 2012 22:09
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Brown is a dark color. Darkness lies in the shadows. Hence: http://metalgear.wikia.com/wiki/Shadow_Moses_Incident Brown Moses is Big Boss and he is tweeting from Zanzibar Land while preparing his Metal Gears.
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Sep 16, 2012 22:10
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Brown Moses posted:This video supposedly shows Amb. Stevens body being taking out of the consulate in Benghazi. It would be interesting if anyone who knew Arabic could translate anything interesting that was being said. They seem to be dragging his body out of the building and very happy about it: I'm rather scare of finding out what they are saying =( e: VV Thank god. That can't be Amb. Stevens then though...? e2: VVV Oh, you're probably right I don't know the details of the attack very well. Well then this video, while very tragic, is heartwarming. Ron Paul Atreides fucked around with this message at 22:18 on Sep 16, 2012 |
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Sep 16, 2012 22:12
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Myrdhale posted:I'm rather scare of finding out what hey are saying =( Apparently it's actually "yay, he's alive", not "yay, we killed him".
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Sep 16, 2012 22:14
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Myrdhale posted:I'm rather scare of finding out what hey are saying =( I think he was alive when they were bringing him to the hospital. Didn't he die from smoke inhalation later on?
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Sep 16, 2012 22:16
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Photos of this small girl have been circulating today, decapitated in an explosion, extremely   http://t.co/wE71sfdZI don't think I've seen a single day where I haven't seen a new picture or video of a dead or dying child in Syria. I'll be glad when that's over.
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Sep 16, 2012 22:17
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The title of the video reads "The American Ambassador and Benghazi citizens' attempts to save him before his death". Most of the people were saying "He's alive!", "Get out of the way/Make way!" and "Thank god". So yeah, they thought they saved and avoided this whole mess, but unfortunately, it didn't pan out that way...
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Sep 16, 2012 22:24
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Brown Moses posted:Photos of this small girl have been circulating today, decapitated in an explosion, extremely I just hope the war ends before they run out of people to kill. 
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Sep 16, 2012 22:27
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HMDK posted:You do know there are other choices that military presence? What do you mean by this? Humanitarian aid?
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Sep 16, 2012 22:44
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Young Freud posted:The closest I can find was the Japanese banzai charge for Airfield No. 2 at Iwo Jima during World War 2, which was pretty much the last major action on the island. I'm not sure if they damaged any planes there. Here's a RAND report on the subject...it only covers Vietnam. I may have overstated how often they occurred, and indirect fire attacks were definitely more effective, but sapper/penetrating type attacks definitely did occur both in Vietnam and Thailand during the war.
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Sep 16, 2012 22:45
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Ghost of Babyhead posted:I hadn't realised that attack on Camp Bastion last Friday had done so much damage Thank goodness the prince was never in danger! 
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Sep 16, 2012 22:47
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Red7 posted:What do you mean by this? Humanitarian aid?
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Sep 16, 2012 22:47
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Here's the Black Brigade formation video from Deir Ez Zor, with black flags aplenty. Guessing they aren't fans of Henry Rollins early musical career https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq_-m8Vl6rI
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Sep 16, 2012 22:49
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HMDK posted:Well, for one thing. Just don't suck at it. Any government led humanitarian aid in some of those countries is going to involve a military presence. Its a trend that even the NGOs, who back in the 80s and early 90s could move relatively freely are being forced into defensive compounds - hell they were even targeting NGOs workers in Kabul. Its so easy to say just do this, but when you actually get out there and start doing it its a whole lot more complex. iyaayas01 posted:Happened quite frequently during the Soviet-Afghan War in the '80s. Also happened fairly frequently during Vietnam, and both of those wars featured incursions at major airbases, like Bagram equivalents (in the case of the Soviets, some of those probably did occur at Bagram). While indirect fire has been a thing both in Afghanistan this time around and in Iraq, I'm having trouble remembering anything like this happening before in either war, although I'm honestly surprised it hasn't before. There has been cases in the past in Afghanistan of them attempting complex small arms/SIED attacks against airfields, but AFAIK they have never penetrated so far as to threaten aircraft directly. Its pretty clear from the size of the attack, the use of uniforms and the target itself that this was a big deal and something that had been in the planning stages for a while - not thrown together a week after they found out Harry was there.
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Sep 16, 2012 22:57
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Red7 posted:Any government led humanitarian aid in some of those countries is going to involve a military presence. Its a trend that even the NGOs, who back in the 80s and early 90s could move relatively freely are being forced into defensive compounds - hell they were even targeting NGOs workers in Kabul. Why? I mean, why do you think that is?
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Sep 16, 2012 23:00
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Because they're associated with the West and America. It was 3 UN aid workers who were killed by a mob in Mazar-i-Sharif after Terry Jones burnt his Koran - they didn't have a military presence at all. I know what you're getting at, that wouldn't be case if the US weren't seen as the devil in the Middle East - but they are and any solutions or alternatives need to take that into account.
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Sep 16, 2012 23:15
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Red7 posted:Because they're associated with the West and America. It was 3 UN aid workers who were killed by a mob in Mazar-i-Sharif after Terry Jones burnt his Koran - they didn't have a military presence at all. Which is what I'm asking you to do. Take poo poo into account. The middle east isn't monolithic in any sense, neither are the ammassed peoples of it anti U.S. poo poo, some people lump Turkey and Morocco together. (Not accusing you of that, though, I'm just saying that this is the usual geographic and ethnic idiocy that I'm used to hearing).
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Sep 16, 2012 23:24
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I've no doubt, but you only need a 100 or so blokes to get whipped up into a frenzy by a firebrand Mullah and your days ruined, how ruined it is is dependent on how screwed up the country is and/or the level of penetration by radical Islam. Unless you literally remove every Westerner associated with Western governments, there is always going to be a need for a (para)military presence in the region - even if that is provided by the host government in the more stable states.
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Sep 16, 2012 23:37
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