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Are you getting the Wii U? This poll is closed. |
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| Yes |
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9031 | 65.25% |
| No |
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1191 | 8.60% |
| Maybe |
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808 | 5.84% |
| I'm an idiot |
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460 | 3.32% |
| Waluigi |
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1603 | 11.58% |
| Waa |
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748 | 5.40% |
| Total: | 13841 votes | ||
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In an industry where major titles are released in every region within a month of each other now instead of there being a year delay (of course there are still exceptions like Megami Tensei stuff in Europe or anything XSeed gets a hold of) I seriously do not understand why region protection exists, at all. The amount of people who import games from a different country is extremely small and often consist of people so devoted to the hobby that they buy tons of games (often the same they import) from the same developer in their own region anyway.
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Oct 18, 2012 16:02
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Also, don't forget about what I call the "pain in the rear end" factor of doing business. It may or may not apply to the online debate of NSMBU, but generally this means that despite the potential for additional profit a business may make a choice simply because the more profitable path is too much of a pain. They are people after all...most of the time.
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Oct 18, 2012 16:08
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greatn posted:So Nintendo has admitted now FoxConn workers that were underage were building WiiU units. While it's an important topic to discuss, this thread is definitely not the place for it since the issue encompasses more than just the WiiU's production, so feel free to start a thread in GBS or even D&D if you'd like to get more insight.
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Oct 18, 2012 16:08
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Shelf Adventure posted:They can charge a lot more in Europe than in the USA. My local game shop often had the US versions of DS games in stock rather than the UK versions. Actually yeah, I just saw a report where British retailers are going to charge significantly more for WiiU versions of multi platform titles. They would NEVER get away with that in the US. NOA would bite their heads off. So if it's more because of retailers trying to screw them over, that makes lots more sense.
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Oct 18, 2012 16:08
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Didn't Nintendo's in-house developers beg for the Wii U not to have achievements? I question whether exclusion of online play is a business decision or a "Nintendo has really stuck up eccentric people making their games" decision.
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Oct 18, 2012 16:10
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Neo Rasa posted:In an industry where major titles are released in every region within a month of each other now instead of there being a year delay (of course there are still exceptions like Megami Tensei stuff in Europe or anything XSeed gets a hold of) I seriously do not understand why region protection exists, at all. The amount of people who import games from a different country is extremely small and often consist of people so devoted to the hobby that they buy tons of games (often the same they import) from the same developer in their own region anyway. From what I understand, for Nintendo it comes down to the rating system and controlling specific content that may not be "suitable" for other regions. I think they really buckled down on this when they introduced the DSiWare stuff since it could be obtained digitally. Nintendo tends to be really conservative when it comes to controlling game content regionally.
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Oct 18, 2012 16:10
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Louisgod posted:From what I understand, for Nintendo it comes down to the rating system and controlling specific content that may not be "suitable" for other regions. I think they really buckled down on this when they introduced the DSiWare stuff since it could be obtained digitally. Nintendo tends to be really conservative when it comes to controlling game content regionally. This does make sense for them since their handhelds were all region free until the DSi came out. Though personally I still don't see the point since you'd either need a credit card or a hook-up to get a points card from a different region to get things that aren't rated for your own region (and not even the most hardcore mom and pop game stores have those in the building). Either way an adult is involved. I also don't understand the pricing thing since Japanese retailers manipulate the prices beyond whatever Nintendo wants their stuff to sell for all the time anyway and no one cares. The DS Lite launch was a good example, it go so popular that rather than waiting for more units from Nintendo stores were buying back DS Lites for higher than what they sell for new and then re-selling them for even higher than that. This is done with any super popular Nintendo game as well rather than the store just ordering a ton of new units. This from the country where Nintendo most aggressively pursued its anti-used game/system stance (of course if they really wanted to stop their games from being re-sold they'd be at the forefront of digital distribution instead of just barely getting their feet wet now). Quest for Glory II has the right idea, I feel like Nintendo is very inconsistent and eccentric with what standards of how the industry is "supposed" to work they cling to and what they're willing to change. I will say though that part of the reason it stands out to me so much is that Nintendo hardware was the absolute easiest non-SNK hardware to import games for until the Wii and then DSi came out. That said, I can't believe anyone within Nintendo is against having achievements at this time. I mean the entire 3DS social experience is based around coins and achievements and unlocking stuff. There's an entire dippy JRPG parody that exists on the 3DS based around unlocking stuff and adding more Miis for its own sake. Is there a source for this anywhere? I'd genuinely like to know the reasoning for it. The no online for Super Mario Bros. I can kind of sort of understand but that seems just out of touch. Reminds me of something I posted earlier in the thread from the Gamecube WarioWare manual though. It says outright that you need to have real friends to play a Nintendo game followed by Wario's laughter. 
Neo Rasa fucked around with this message at 16:36 on Oct 18, 2012 |
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Oct 18, 2012 16:32
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I think part of it is that Nintendo's a company that makes videogames, whereas it's only a division Microsoft and Sony respectively. They might shuffle staff every few years, whereas Nintendo's had the same people in the same jobs for a decade. It's not a bad thing in of itself, but they could probably use just a little new blood to get their online features up to par with their rivals.
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Oct 18, 2012 16:38
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The 3DS Mii software has "accomplishments" but retail 3DS software doesn't have any sort of unified achievement system. The Wii U will probably have something similar. No unified achievement system and entirely up to the developers. Some quotes from Nintendo: quote:"When they create their games, [Nintendo's designers] don't tell you how to play their game in order to achieve some kind of mythical reward," Trinen said, explaining his view of why Nintendo's top creators have stayed off the Achievement bandwagon. Reggie Fils-Aime posted:"Once you start getting into game-specific [Achievements] that's developer driven." Microsoft may require every game to have Achievements, but, Fils-Aime said, "That is not our philosophy." I wouldn't be surprised if the Nintendo developers still don't see the point of online play and refuse to put it in their games because they just don't want to. Nintendo sees what they're doing as giving the developers 'freedom' but I wonder if the developers are all that happy to have to handle online play, achievements, etc, completely on their own rather than having an existing infrastructure to plug into. The 7th Guest fucked around with this message at 16:57 on Oct 18, 2012 |
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Oct 18, 2012 16:53
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I was going to say, I can respect that outlook, but I don't think it's what developers or gamers want or need in today's industry.
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Oct 18, 2012 17:08
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I'm okay with their position on achievements. I personally enjoy achievements in certain types of games, but there are also plenty of games where I could care less. I can't imagine being alone feeling that way. I say let the developers decide whether or not the particular game they are making is one where achievements are likely to be popular enough to merit the development time/cost.
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Oct 18, 2012 17:14
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Xavier434 posted:I'm okay with their position on achievements. I personally enjoy achievements in certain types of games, but there are also plenty of games where I could care less. I can't imagine being alone feeling that way. I say let the developers decide whether or not the particular game they are making is one where achievements are likely to be popular enough to merit the development time/cost. Exactly. Not every game needs it but it should be an open option. "You slid down the whole pole! Here Cheat, have a trophy!"
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Oct 18, 2012 17:23
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I think the inclusion of achievements is dependent on the kind of strategy and market that Nintendo is trying to capture. For the more casual market, achievements are useless, but since Nintendo is trying to recapture the more 'hardcore' market or at least usurp customers away from the 360/PS3 market, I think including achievements going forward would help to capture that segment again. If anything, implementing an achievement system similar to Smash Bros. or Kid Icarus may be the best route to go since it rewards achievements with content and generally adds extra hours of playtime to a game. The only problem is that it takes time and money to create an achievements system and again, Nintendo tends to be conservative with the way they do things and are stubborn to change.
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Oct 18, 2012 17:29
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Louisgod posted:The only problem is that it takes time and money to create an achievements system and again, Nintendo tends to be conservative with the way they do things and are stubborn to change. Exactly. So, unless more money is added to the pot, that means money needs to be taken from another part of the budget in order to deliver achievements in a particular game. That will be worth it in some cases where the game is more popular amongst the type of gamer who values achievements a lot, but may not be worth the sacrifice if the game attracts players who mostly don't care. Nintendo is trying to attract more hardcore gamers, but not necessarily with every game.
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Oct 18, 2012 17:39
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I feel they should have created a unified online infrastructure and achievement system, even if they themselves didn't want to partake in it. Make life easier for everyone instead of telling developers to bootstrap it. We keep talking this cycle where third parties and Nintendo can't seem to get along in each generation. Well at some point Nintendo has to actually work with them if they want to actually foster growth. Also you'd be surprised about casual people and achievements, achievements are all over iPhone games now, and if a game doesn't have Game Center support it's generally considered a Bad Thing. The 7th Guest fucked around with this message at 18:02 on Oct 18, 2012 |
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Oct 18, 2012 18:00
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And if you missed out, well even Pokemon has achievements now. I think it's really good in games like Xenoblade/Pokemon (long rpgs) and gives you stuff to try out. For stuff like sports games, the list could be shorter. Though I don't mind if they become up to the developer. They were pretty cool in Xenoblade, and Portal 2 had a lot of fun with theirs (but that was using mandatory ones).
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Oct 18, 2012 18:08
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Xenoblade has some pretty dumb achievements like, "You just walked into a common area of a new town! Here's some XP!"
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Oct 18, 2012 18:28
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Paper Jam Dipper posted:Xenoblade has some pretty dumb achievements like, "You just walked into a common area of a new town! Here's some XP!" It was pretty cool how you got XP in that game though (besides just beating monsters) You died by jumping off a cliff! You got experience and learned never to be a dumbass again! You leveled up! If you think of it as experience in terms of 'life experience and what you've seen and done' it makes a whole lot more sense.
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Oct 18, 2012 18:33
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Paper Jam Dipper posted:Xenoblade has some pretty dumb achievements like, "You just walked into a common area of a new town! Here's some XP!" Lots of games give XP for discovering new areas... Borderlands, WoW, etc.
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Oct 18, 2012 18:33
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zenintrude posted:Lots of games give XP for discovering new areas... Borderlands, WoW, etc. He has a point though. Forcing achievements has lead to a lot of games whose achievements are a bunch of boring junk. It's wasteful. Might as well just let them choose whether or not to include the achievements at all. I am in support of Nintendo creating infrastructure to support those who do wish to include them though. There are more than enough games which benefit from achievements to merit that. Same with online.
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Oct 18, 2012 18:43
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RE: Kiosks My buddy just set up their Wii-U kiosk at Gamestop today. So I'd imagine they are all gonna be available to demo pretty soon. 
iSheep fucked around with this message at 19:05 on Oct 18, 2012 |
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Oct 18, 2012 19:01
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Xavier434 posted:He has a point though. Forcing achievements has lead to a lot of games whose achievements are a bunch of boring junk. It's wasteful. Might as well just let them choose whether or not to include the achievements at all. Remind me again what resource is being wasted through "You walked into a new town! 25 Nerd Points!" If you're going to say "developer time", you're wrong. In the vast array of things that do take up precious time for a big developer, this is hardly a blip on the radar. Disc space is hardly affected. System resources are hardly affected (hell, the Wii U has more memory than the PS3 or 360, so maybe when its notifications pop up games will not stutter to accommodate this). Even where achievements are mandatory, if the developer doesn't give a poo poo they can put a bunch of generic goals in a list and be done with it. Achievements literally have no negative impact on game design unless the design of the game is already flawed and focuses entirely around said achievements. That wouldn't be a problem with the idea behind achievements themselves, but rather a problem with people behind the game. I can't think of any top tier games these days where they are a problem. It seems like most of the arguments against achievements ultimately boil down to "I think they are stupid, the people who like them/hunt for them are stupid", possibly in more flowery prose.
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Oct 18, 2012 19:04
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Paper Jam Dipper posted:Xenoblade has some pretty dumb achievements like, "You just walked into a common area of a new town! Here's some XP!" Those aren't achievements, though, that's just XP for discovering a new area. You also get XP for discovering a "secret" area and a different musical jingle. Bring up the menu and go to the one that looks like a trophy to see the achievements. There are two classes, normal achievements and records. Records tend to be combat related or sidequest related such as winning a battle without ever attacking or trading for a rare item, and achievements tend to be plot related. Although, there are area-related achievements: ¡ First Steps - Discover any landmark. ¡ A corner of the world - Discover 10 landmarks. ¡ Seasoned traveler - Discover 40 landmarks. ¡ Globetrotter - Discover 80 landmarks. ¡ Worldly wise - Discover 150 landmarks. ¡ Explorer - Discover a secret area. ¡ Trailblazer - Discover 6 secret areas. ¡ Pioneer - Discover 12 secret areas. You can find the full list of achievements here but it's obviously got spoilers.
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Oct 18, 2012 19:06
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fivegears4reverse posted:Remind me again what resource is being wasted through "You walked into a new town! 25 Nerd Points!" I think you're being too dismissive. There have been plenty of very well-reasoned arguments over the years about the way achievements gently caress with reward schedules and force designers to deal with the fact that, just by the very existence of achievements, players will play a game in a certain way(in pursuit of those achievements).
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Oct 18, 2012 19:09
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iSheep posted:RE: Kiosks Awesome. I've been wanting to hold the controller and see how it feels.
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Oct 18, 2012 19:13
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fivegears4reverse posted:Remind me again what resource is being wasted through "You walked into a new town! 25 Nerd Points!" I wasn't arguing against achievements. I was arguing in support of developers being given the freedom to choose whether or not to include them in their game. In regards to developer time/cost, I'd say it depends on the achievement and how many of them they choose to include. A lot of achievements are very boring when just tacked on quickly though. We will probably just have to agree to disagree here.
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Oct 18, 2012 19:16
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It's kind of stupid, but there's actually a decent use for achievements on a developer side. A lot of companies use them as data aggregates to find out about player habits and progression, so if like "You beat Level 4!"'s achievement has a 66.3% attainment rate while "You beat Level 5!"'s only has 22% then they could look at those two stages and find out what went wrong.
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Oct 18, 2012 19:19
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Wasn't that how they got that statistic that only 10% of people actually complete the single player in games today or whatever?
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Oct 18, 2012 19:28
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Neo Rasa posted:Wasn't that how they got that statistic that only 10% of people actually complete the single player in games today or whatever? I think the game in question was Just Cause 2. Which is a little unfair as the story mode sucks and it's way more fun to screw around. But it is surprising that something short and (semi-easy) as COD will only top out at a 60% completition rate. But I guess there's lots of dupe accounts and people who only play multi.
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Oct 18, 2012 19:32
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Policenaut posted:It's kind of stupid, but there's actually a decent use for achievements on a developer side. A lot of companies use them as data aggregates to find out about player habits and progression, so if like "You beat Level 4!"'s achievement has a 66.3% attainment rate while "You beat Level 5!"'s only has 22% then they could look at those two stages and find out what went wrong. However a lot of companies also use stat-tracking stuff that is way more detailed than any achievements.
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Oct 18, 2012 19:32
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http://www.ign.com/articles/2012/10/18/wii-us-baffling-voice-chat-solution-revealed Motherfucking Nintendo. Some highlights: IGN posted:Nintendo has instead opted to allow developers to include the feature on a game-by-game basis. In a strange move, however, the GamePad's built-in mic will not be a default source for voice chat. In an e-mail to Kotaku, the publisher revealed that gamers will likely have to turn to third-party options to find headsets with built-in mics, and then plug those accessories into the Pad itself. IGN posted:Though the GamePad has a plug to support headsets, the Pro controller does not. That immediately cuts off the option of plugging in a headset for voice chat. It appears gamers wishing to use voice chat with the Pro controller will need to plug their third party hardware into the GamePad while playing a game supporting the voice feature.  Only Nintendo. Has a mic built-loving-in, doesn't use it. extremebuff fucked around with this message at 19:36 on Oct 18, 2012 |
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Oct 18, 2012 19:33
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Bobnumerotres posted:http://www.ign.com/articles/2012/10/18/wii-us-baffling-voice-chat-solution-revealed  Holy poo poo, dude. Baffling.
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Oct 18, 2012 19:35
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This is pretty awful. The only way it would work is if the gamepad has massive amounts of stuff on it even while playing with the pro controller. Like maybe the matchmaking/friend lists/whatever can still be done on that in between matches?
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Oct 18, 2012 19:36
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It could be an issue with interference. When hands are moving around the controller, adjusting, pressing buttons, etc. The mic could pick that up which would result in muffled/cluttered chat experience.
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Oct 18, 2012 19:38
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Fergus Mac Roich posted:I think you're being too dismissive. There have been plenty of very well-reasoned arguments over the years about the way achievements gently caress with reward schedules and force designers to deal with the fact that, just by the very existence of achievements, players will play a game in a certain way(in pursuit of those achievements). These arguements have never really done anything to dissuade me from thinking that the only thing wrong about achievements honestly is that some folks just don't like them and the people who try to get them all. Despite the fact that achievements (much like playing a game in general) are optional to the player and are hardly intrusive to the overall gameplay experience. If the player wants to ignore them, they can, and typically to little detriment. If game designers have a problem with people playing their games "a certain way" just to get an achievement, the onus is on them, not the gamer, to make them interesting and require whatever gameplay ideal they think the unwashed gamer masses ought to aspire to.
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Oct 18, 2012 19:38
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http://kotaku.com/5952858/you-can-voice+chat-on-the-wii-u-while-gaming-but-theres-a-catch Here's the original article. Honestly. Why? Just why? Why put a mic into the controller and then not use it at all? Why advertise that it can be used that way up until now and then go "Surprise! It's useless!"
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Oct 18, 2012 19:39
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Bobnumerotres posted:http://www.ign.com/articles/2012/10/18/wii-us-baffling-voice-chat-solution-revealed I wouldn't be surprised if they release a mic similar to the one they have for the Wii that sits on top of your tv/table/whatever. Especially if they're keeping their narrow preference of in-person multiplayer over online. Or that original Wii mic could even still be a useable peripheral. It doesn't make any sense that they wouldn't try to make the mic in the gamepad as multipurpose/useful as possible, though, that is a horrible decision. But if each developer can implement it on their own game-by-game basis, it sounds like at least some of the better-quality titles will be able to use the gamepad mic. iSheep posted:It could be an issue with interference. This would kind of explain it. It still doesn't explain why they wouldn't put a headset port on the pro controller, though.
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Oct 18, 2012 19:39
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Nintendo: making my avatar relevant at all times.
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Oct 18, 2012 19:41
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thexerox123 posted:I wouldn't be surprised if they release a mic similar to the one they have for the Wii that sits on top of your tv/table/whatever. They said that third party mics will work just fine. But there's no port on the pro controller  Why not just use the loving mic that's built into the controller and has been shown to work this way for over a year?There is no excuse or apology for this. I thought this was the whole point of miiverse. Easy communication. But it's game-by-game and not system-wide.
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Oct 18, 2012 19:41
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fivegears4reverse posted:These arguements have never really done anything to dissuade me from thinking that the only thing wrong about achievements honestly is that some folks just don't like them and the people who try to get them all. Despite the fact that achievements (much like playing a game in general) are optional to the player and are hardly intrusive to the overall gameplay experience. If the player wants to ignore them, they can, and typically to little detriment. I won't paste the whole thing here, but go read this. Scroll down to the part where the interviewer asks about Farmville. Blow's answer sums up a lot of what people have to say about the psychology of achievements.
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Oct 18, 2012 19:43
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