|
I thought E85 required more than simply just the engine being flex-fuel ready? Could have sworn that you had to use E85 ready rubber and plastics where needed. Fuel pump gaskets and lines and whatnot. Correct me if I'm wrong.
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2012 13:13
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 21, 2024 11:09 |
|
|
GM LS engine makes too much sense. Unfortunately, because I like crazy poo poo. If you just want to be funny put in an old Audi turbo I-5. Nobody will see THAT coming! 
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2012 14:34
|
|
|
I vote 4.8 LS built to rev to 8K rpm. Anyway that is on my wish list of engines for my fictitious 1992 mulletmaro.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2012 14:48
|
|
|
Elephanthead posted:I vote 4.8 LS built to rev to 8K rpm. Anyway that is on my wish list of engines for my fictitious 1992 mulletmaro. Yes, because those V8s sound amazing at 7K on up. http://www.lt1swap.com/cable_conversion.htm seems to be the most comprehensive reference, but there's a few threads on LS1tech that pop up in Google too.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2012 16:10
|
|
|
As much as I hate seeing SBCs swapped into everything, not being carbed would redeem it a bit. The sorta keep it in the family option: Dodge 5.7 Hemi http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/engine/hrdp_1106_turbocharged_hemi_engine/viewall.html I don't know where they shopped for that article though, I can find 5.7 pulls for less than a grand here. The Mitsubishi 6G72TT is a powerful engine, but a complicated mess to work on.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2012 16:50
|
|
|
From what I've read the bore/stroke of the 4.8 LS motors make them ideal for boost.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2012 17:49
|
|
|
Detroit Q. Spider posted:How is E85 any better than 91 octane gasoline? Sure the alcohol might keep your combustion chambers a little cooler with boost but isn't E85's energy-per-pound (or however that's measured) still very poor compared to even regular unleaded? E85 basically has a octane rating of 100+. It's become the fuel to run in high boosted applications if your area has it.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2012 19:07
|
|
|
Have you thought about a blown 3800? They're cheap enough that they are practically falling from the sky, have a huge aftermarket and came in rwd form in some Camaros. 4-500 hp is fairly easy to do with stock internals, especially if you can find a series III with forged rods (Series III motors also have an updated m90 blower and better heads). It's not the lightest or most refined thing in the world but I'm sure it meets the packaging requirements, people smoosh them into Fieros all the time. My opinion is definitely biased though. I love me a good 3800.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2012 19:40
|
|
|
As long as you're considering an iron block motor, why the 5.3 and not the 6.0? You can pick up an LQ4 or LQ9 for basically the same price (maybe a bit more) and gain a bit more displacement to boot.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2012 19:51
|
|
|
Yeah, e85 has an octane rating of roughly 105. There are a lot of myths and guessing when it comes to running e85 through cars that were not designed for it. Some people say you need to replace all your fuel lines with metal, line your gas tank, replace all the gaskets in the engine, etc. But then there are people like my friend who has been running e85 in his Evo since 2006, and all he did was install a high pressure fuel pump in the stock tank and 1000cc injectors. He's had no fuel line problems, nothing has rotted or melted away, and he enjoys 35psi through a Forced Performance Red turbo daily. He would be limited to under 30psi easily on 93 octane, and probably 25 on 91. I'm going to need to rebuild the fuel system for a fuel injected engine anyway, so I'll do my research and make sure whatever I go with will last. I thought about the Hemi 5.7 V8, but the pistons are a huge weak link in that engine. Really no reason to use that engine when GM V8s can take a lot of boost and still cost less. I just did some searching and there are a ton of 1uzfe engines for sale locally for under $500, but they all have 150,000 miles or more. I have the feeling I'm just going to drive to one of these auto dismantlers and see what kind of deal I can get.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2012 20:10
|
|
|
What's the gameplan? - decide on engine - buy engine - a) find bolt-up tranny - b) find usable tranny, then have shop custom fab bellhousing, adapt flywheel, etc. - carefully measure for engine cradle, tranny mounts, making sure the shifter will end up in the right place - fab all that - run engine on stand - bolt engine and tranny up, then put into car - wire everthing up ? If so, I can see why picking an engine is such an agonizing choice, since the fun of the project is pretty much all the same once you have the engine/tranny combo.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2012 20:20
|
|
|
Would a cube-rear end VG30DETT fit? cuz that would be pretty unique, and easy to hit that power with turbos and injectors and some small other poo poo
|
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2012 14:55
|
|
|
The VG30DETT is too wide. I already had to cross that off my list. After sleeping on it, I'm reluctantly crossing the 2JZ and 6G72 off my list. I recently bought a Hemi powered Grand Cherokee as a DD and tow rig and I'm falling in love with that V8 growl. The 2J and 6G are both amazing engines, but their drawbacks (expense, fitment, tranny options) compared with the price and ease of the GM LS 5.3 and the Toyota 1uz-fe make the decision pretty easy. I'm just going to go to Sun Valley, CA (auto dismantling heaven) as soon as I get the time and see what kind of deal I can get. I'm probably now leaning towards the 1uz, but if there is a killer price on an LS engine/tranny combo I might not be able to pass it up. Also if I can buy a 50k mile LS for the price of a 150k mile 1uz, that will help make the decision too. kimbo305 posted:What's the gameplan? Yep, pretty much this. I don't want to have to mess around with picking an engine now and then realizing later that I made a poor choice. And yes, half the fun of this car is the build. The 5.3 and the 1uz both have manual transmission options for down the road too, so after I get tired of the auto I can plan the swap. I love the power the 5.7L in the Grand Cherokee makes, but I'm already sick of the auto transmission. I don't know how long I'll be able to deal with it in the Brick, but we'll see.
|
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2012 22:18
|
|
|
One thing to keep in mind when situating your new drivetrain is the manual's shift tower location. Even if you're starting with an auto, you should be very careful to keep that in mind when building your motor mounts so that you don't have to move the engine all over again during the manual swap to avoid cutting the bodywork/center console to install the shifter.
|
|
#
?
Oct 22, 2012 04:53
|
|
|
kastein posted:One thing to keep in mind when situating your new drivetrain is the manual's shift tower location. Even if you're starting with an auto, you should be very careful to keep that in mind when building your motor mounts so that you don't have to move the engine all over again during the manual swap to avoid cutting the bodywork/center console to install the shifter. Very good advice, thanks. This is definitely a concern since the 1uzfe will most likely require a W58 tranny from the NA Supra/SC300. I can't seem to find an official torque rating for that tranny, but I'm reading in the 400ft lbs range, which isn't enough for my application. Yet I've also read that people have been running 700hp through their W58s for years with no problems, so who knows. What I do know is that they exist locally for $500. The Getrag turbo Supra tranny would be ideal if they didn't cost upwards of 4 grand. For the 5.3 I'd probably be using a T56 which can handle in the 700ft lbs range and is plenty for what I need, but they cost around 2 grand very used. I'm just going to have to cut a larger hole in the tranny tunnel than I want, and I need to get over that it seems. I'm trying to mount these engines as low as I can, but since the factory engine cradle is welded to the frame rails it can only go so far. I'm hoping the heads of the 1uzfe will stick far enough up over the rails to give me some extra breathing room without having to mount the engine too high in the bay. The other issue I'm seeing is my very narrow engine bay. I measured 29" between frame rails. The 1uzfe is just shy of 26" wide from head to head. That leaves me with 1.5" on either side for clearance which feels extremely tight. The LS1 measures only 20.5" across from widest points, which gives me plenty of room to wedge headers and other stuff in there.
|
|
#
?
Oct 22, 2012 11:01
|
|
|
You can get a new T56 for about 3k from summit. I've seen them for 1-1.5k on Ebay.
|
|
#
?
Oct 22, 2012 18:13
|
|
|
How cheap are Rover(/Buick) V8s from older Discos/Range Rovers over there? That might just fit.
|
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2012 00:52
|
|
|
Itzena posted:How cheap are Rover(/Buick) V8s from older Discos/Range Rovers over there? That might just fit. I have no idea, but I'll consider it if they can handle boost. I just sent out feeler emails to 6 dismantlers in the area. Hopefully some get back to me so by this weekend I'll have my new engine setup. I'm sure whatever I end up getting will require a mild refurbish job. I want the engine sooner than later so I can tear it down and start ordering parts.
|
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2012 03:24
|
|
|
BoostCreep posted:I have no idea, but I'll consider it if they can handle boost. People have done all kinds of strange things to Rover V8s. They can take gobs of boost. There was even a factory shipped supercharger in the early 90's. They are out there but rare as hen's teeth.
|
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2012 14:36
|
|
|
Kill-9 posted:People have done all kinds of strange things to Rover V8s. They can take gobs of boost. There was even a factory shipped supercharger in the early 90's. They are out there but rare as hen's teeth. Don't the rover aluminum V8s have headgaskets made of cheese in N/A form, without the addition of boost? My vote is for a crazy boosted 2.4l from an SRT-4, flipped straight with a Dodge Dakota bellhousing and Toyota Supra R154 bolted up behind it. This actually works.
|
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2012 15:21
|
|
|
ACEofsnett posted:Don't the rover aluminum V8s have headgaskets made of cheese in N/A form, without the addition of boost? The newer composite gaskets solved that. The biggest issue was the three rows of head bolts on heads prior to about '96. The lower row if tightened to much at the factory, and they liked to do that, would pivot the entire head on the middle row. This made the upper bolts stretch just enough to weaken the gasket on that side. That's why when a Rover motor head gasket goes it usually blows at the upper end of the head. The fix in later blocks was to eliminate that lower row of bolts. And the same in older engines. You just don't use that row. It was simply over engineered to the point of failure.
|
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2012 15:50
|
|
|
Rover V8 is well regarded but I don't know much more about it beyond that. 5.3 is a Chevy Smallblock, and we all know the Mouse Motor is certainly in the top 5 engines of all time, and there's compelling arguments for it just being the best, period. I've got one in my truck and it's great, closing in on 200,000 miles with no major services needed at all. Anybody can work on these engines and the parts are everywhere, plus it has the largest aftermarket of any engine there is, so whatever you want to do with one, you can. Of course because of all this you'll find it in everything from heavy-duty trucks to little sports cars, so it's definitely the expected swap for just about anything that needs a new motor. 3.8 V6 is basically the Mouse Motor of the V6 world. Storied heritage that goes back to the early 60s and its days as the "Fireball", been in everything from small cars to trucks (The L67 has even been swapped into Suburbans with excellent results), aftermarket second only to the Smallblock, and good reliability. Only thing to watch out for are the plastic intake manifolds that can crack. You need to start with a force-induction block if you want to go that route but they take boost well, IIRC a smaller pulley for the blower gets good results on its own.
|
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2012 22:19
|
|
|
Why is this still being thrown around? 4.8l/5.3l Chevy small block, end of story. It's got more after market support than any other engine out there right now. Makes silly power on stock internals and was built for boost. Did you even read the Big Bang Theory article?
|
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2012 22:45
|
|
|
Right now it looks like the 1uzfe will be cutting it pretty close on width due to the DOHC heads and super narrow engine bay, but we'll see what I can come up with. I'm aiming for a 5.3L Chevy and we'll see what kind of deal I can get. Judging by how much this guy had to notch his frame rails to fit turbo manifolds for a 1uzfe on his MK3 Supra, the 5.3L looks like it's going to fit a whole lot easier and just be less hassle. 
|
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2012 23:30
|
|
|
Why do all the LS swap people go with the 5.3 instead of the 5.7, 6.0 or 6.2? I cant imagine the weight is all that much greater.
|
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2012 23:57
|
|
|
BoostCreep posted:Judging by how much this guy had to notch his frame rails to fit turbo manifolds for a 1uzfe on his MK3 Supra, the 5.3L looks like it's going to fit a whole lot easier and just be less hassle. Nathan Explosion posted:Have you thought about a blown 3800? Amos Moses posted:Why is this still being thrown around? EnergizerFellow fucked around with this message at 00:04 on Oct 24, 2012 |
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2012 00:00
|
|
|
The 5.3 is $600 while 5.7 engines start in the $2,000 range and go up to the $6K figure locally. The .4L really isn't worth the premium for nearly the same performance.
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2012 00:01
|
|
|
Availability and cost. The 5.3 is the most common one out there, period; it's the go-to engine for the half-ton trucks and SUVs. The 4.8 was only marginally cheaper, and the 6.0 wasn't always available. Then you've got your aluminum-block engines, which are much lower production - you've got the aluminum 5.3 for certain SUVs, but the only 5.7Ls were the LS1 and LS6, which only showed up in niche vehicles (same for the 6.0L LS2 and 6.2L LS3).
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2012 00:02
|
|
|
mattdizzleZ28 posted:Why do all the LS swap people go with the 5.3 instead of the 5.7, 6.0 or 6.2? I cant imagine the weight is all that much greater. A complete 5.3 is super cheap to get out of a junkyard. Like $200-400 cheap. I have a friend who has a 4th gen F-body whose LS1 took a poo poo and instead of rebuilding it just bought a aluminum 5.3 and threw a big cam in it for like $600 total.
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2012 00:05
|
|
|
Progress, finally. Here is a picture onslaught. I took these pictures with an iphone and I'm not happy with how they're turning out. I just need to nut up and buy a new lens to replace the busted one on my DSLR. The first thing I wanted to tackle was removing the radiator, but these things were in the way. The transmission fluid was pumped through metal tubes from the tranny through the radiator for cooling. Of course the very first thing of the day was impossible because these things were not budging. I was either going to rip them out of the radiator or destroy the metal tube in the process.  So I just skipped to the destruction part.  Radiator out. Gross. It looks like some animal made a nest in there and molted.  Radiator and shroud gone. I can finally see what the front of the engine looks like.  Carb removed.  4 barrels of pure performance. All 220 horsepowers.   Here is the coolant neck. Now I see why it didn't work...someone filled the engine with rock candy!  I don't know how these colors and shapes happened, but they were all over the thermostat.  Front bumper, headlight covers and surrounds, and hood extension panel removed for better access as well as not dropping half a ton of iron and aluminum on irreplaceable acrylic.  Maybe the most annoying thing I had to deal with was the A/C compressor. I decided to leave it intact for now. I went back and forth on whether to purge the system and remove everything, but I didn't want to leave it open to the atmosphere for too long. I can make the decision later. The compressor is the big aluminum bit on the left of frame. I had to remove the fan, crank pulley, accessory belt pulley, associated belts, alternator, brackets, and coolant pipes just to get to one of the bolts holding the compressor on. So F'n annoying.  Just a closeup of the grime and crap on the 38 year old engine.  I was removing bits and pieces as they got snagged while lifting the engine. This little do-hickey is (was) part of the over-complicated and ridiculous smog system. I hardly touched it and it fell apart in my hands. Good thing there's no smog testing for '74 model cars in California. Removing all that crap will probably take 150lbs out of the front of the car alone.  She's breaching! GET THE HARPOONS! The right most pulley there is the smog pump, sharing a belt with the power steering pump pulley.  Reverse angle. The hardest part was keeping the transmission from gouging the hell out of the fiberglass tranny tunnel. I had to lay under the car in a puddle of tranny fluid pulling the tail shaft away from the sides of the tunnel while my brother operated the hoist. One pump up on the hoist, one little tug forward. Repeat. For like 30 minutes.  Finally it came out with minimal damage to the tunnel or anything else really. The engine fully loaded was probably in the 700lb range with all the pumps, brackets, and accessories attached. Plus the weight of the transmission brought it to probably close to 1,000lbs. The hoist had no problem and worked perfectly. All I had to do at one point was lower the car a bit since the hoist was hitting the garage door above us.   I made kind of a mess. Tomorrow's plan is to get under there with kitty litter and clean up the massive amount of various fluids that have puddled on the cement. One thing to note though... is it just me, or does that engine bay looks huge now? Tomorrow I'll also be taking lots of measurements. I might be able to fit DOHC heads after all...   Transmission tunnel. You can see the driveshaft being supported by a jack stand in the back. Also the *almost* true dual exhaust. The pipes enter into a sideways muffler at the back before dumping out the rear of the car.  And here is the paper weight itself. An all iron and all original '74 AMC 360.   Next steps: 1. Take measurements of everything. If there's a way to fit DOHC heads in there and I can find a 1uzfe for cheap, I might pull the trigger. 2. POR15 the hell out of the frame. There's a lot of surface rust on pretty much every piece of exposed metal. 3. Decide whether I'm going to do the manual swap now or later. This goes along with taking measurements and deciding on an engine. 4. Start figuring out how to convert from a carbed fuel system to fuel injected without destroying the stock fuel tank or cutting holes anywhere. 5. Engine mounts. I found a company online that makes engine mounts to swap Gen III LS1 blocks into full size Jeep Grand Wagoneers. Since they use the AMC 360 engine, I might be able to get some bits from them. Of course that's if I go with the GM option. Otherwise I'll try my hand at making my own. Either way I'm going to try to use as much of the stock ones as possible. 6. Doors. Ugh, the doors... I bought a heat gun and a bunch of putty knives. At least I have a broken door skin to try this on before removing the one good skin I have on the other door. 7. Locate tan C4 Corvette seats in decent shape. 8. Upgrade the AMC 20 rear end to one piece axles. Hopefully add rear discs while I'm at it. 9. Turbo stuff. 10. ...... 11. ..... 12. ......
|
|
#
?
Oct 28, 2012 08:09
|
|
|
For the fuel tank, what about removing it and installing a smaller fuel cell in the same place? The stock tank is probably rusty as hell inside and you don't want to be clogging fuel filters every week and burning out pumps.
|
|
#
?
Oct 28, 2012 13:44
|
|
|
Is there even a lift pump in those? there may not be, at which point, just install an external pump in the line. There's some good info here on a Ford pump and a Bosch CIS pump that may meet your requirements. http://www.locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=9620&start=15 (Thanks to chrisgt for the link, had to go digging in my irc logs to find it)
|
|
#
?
Oct 28, 2012 17:33
|
|
|
Sockington posted:For the fuel tank, what about removing it and installing a smaller fuel cell in the same place? Yep that's what I'm thinking. I just have no experience when it comes to things like that, so I have to do a lot of research. The fuel filler neck is behind the license plate, so it'll be fun figuring out how that will all come together. It'll actually probably be easier because of that.
|
|
#
?
Oct 28, 2012 17:37
|
|
|
Unless you have holes through the tank, why not just get it boiled out? Recoat with por 15 and then paint the outside. If the inlet and outlets are too small for efi you could get them modified at that point too.
|
|
#
?
Oct 28, 2012 17:45
|
|
|
mafoose posted:Unless you have holes through the tank, why not just get it boiled out? Recoat with por 15 and then paint the outside. This could end up being a huge PITA if something Bricklin specific breaks in the process of removal. Straps, mounting hardware, specialty clips and lock rings, etc. I was just brain storming some possible problems he might run into.
|
|
#
?
Oct 28, 2012 17:49
|
|
|
I just found a very cool front end modification that might allow me to use an intercooler without needing to cut holes anywhere. Plus it looks really nice. Problem is I don't know what headlights these are. Anyone have any ideas? I thought 90's Dodge Daytona at first, but after looking it up that's wrong. Google reverse image search just brings me to an out of date Geocities type page. 
|
|
#
?
Oct 28, 2012 17:58
|
|
|
I can't quite put my finger on those lights. Almost look like an OEM fog assembly from something...
|
|
#
?
Oct 28, 2012 18:07
|
|
|
Pontiac Sunbird headlights switched left/right. 
|
|
#
?
Oct 28, 2012 18:52
|
|
|
I thought it looked like someone had made a shrunken head out of a Citroen Visa:
|
|
#
?
Oct 28, 2012 18:56
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 21, 2024 11:09 |
|
|
That's an improvement.
|
|
#
?
Oct 28, 2012 19:02
|
|
