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.Tim posted:It says on the back of the Surface RT box that it won't run the desktop software. So how many people get to look or will look at the back of a laptop's box to see what it will run. I think MS should have put that on the front.
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Oct 31, 2012 16:29
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Installing the remote debugging tools for the SurfaceRT involved a regular Microsoft installer. So everything else is blocked via refusing unsigned executables. This is likely going to be circumvented.
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Oct 31, 2012 16:42
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Can anyone confirm the free space left on a fresh 32gb surface?
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Oct 31, 2012 18:34
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loquacius posted:Point of order, people who just wanted an iPhone but not Apple are what put Android on the map -- at the time, there hadn't really been any viable non-iPhone smartphones. There was nothing "illegitimate" about that, and there's nothing illegitimate about people wanting a tablet for consumption purposes but not liking iOS. Android also benefited from Apple being locked to AT&T for the longest time. Its ecosystem expanded because for many people Android wasn't just an option, it was the only option. By the time the iPhone expanded to other carriers, Android had entrenched itself enough to be a legitimately viable alternative in its own right. Windows RT doesn't have that benefit. Anyone who wants to buy a Surface also has equal access to an iPad (or a Nexus 10 I guess). The niche it's filling at launch is significantly smaller than the one Android filled, and when it also has to compete with Windows 8 as well I'm just having trouble seeing why it would appeal to a large enough group of people to keep it viable. I mean, yeah, there's always going to be some people who want it, but will it be enough to be worth maintaining? I'm not really convinced it will be.
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Oct 31, 2012 18:39
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Holy crap, the SurfaceRT chokes like hell under my synthesizer piano.Magic Underwear posted:Can anyone confirm the free space left on a fresh 32gb surface?
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Oct 31, 2012 18:40
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They should put more time into slimming down the OS, or maybe stuff is so heavily integrated they cant pull out unneeded poo poo.
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Oct 31, 2012 18:50
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Why does RT need a recovery partition? If they made it easy to flash devices, they could just have a utility that does recovery for you from a PC without having to take up like 6GB.
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Oct 31, 2012 19:41
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Not everyone has a PC to recover it from. Whether covering those people from needing to go to a store is worth removing a big chunk of storage from everyone else is debatable, but it's not hard to see why they did it.
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Oct 31, 2012 19:45
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They could have made it possible to boot from a USB device (since the surface has a USB port anyway) and then made it so you could make a recovery drive when you first buy it to free up the space. Or else just make it so you just download the file/get one sent to you only when you need it.
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Oct 31, 2012 19:55
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A tool that moves the recovery partition to an SD card you provide would have been nice, but then I guess you'd get people buying terrible SD cards that might crap out I don't know. I wonder if somewhere like XDA would figure out how to do this.
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Oct 31, 2012 20:11
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Cream_Filling posted:They could have made it possible to boot from a USB device (since the surface has a USB port anyway) and then made it so you could make a recovery drive when you first buy it to free up the space. Or else just make it so you just download the file/get one sent to you only when you need it. Even better, provide that USB device themselves, like the little USB stick that Macs GameCube fucked around with this message at 20:53 on Oct 31, 2012 |
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Oct 31, 2012 20:25
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Werthog posted:Even better, provide that USB device themselves, like the little USB stick that Macs come with these days. They only did that for a year or two. Now all the macs have an OS installer in the bios that will download and install the OS.
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Oct 31, 2012 20:29
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Werthog posted:Even better, provide that USB device themselves, like the little USB stick that Macs come with these days. That's a good idea. $5 of USB stick is better than 6 GB of embedded flash.
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Oct 31, 2012 20:29
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Has anyone done a comparison yet between tegra3 and clovertrail? It kind of surprises me if not, how often do you have the exact same OS/interface on ARM and x86 that allows such a direct comparison?
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Oct 31, 2012 20:44
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EvilBit posted:That's a good idea. $5 of USB stick is better than 6 GB of embedded flash. And it's not like small denominations of flash memory are cheap, either, and MS could profit from all the idiots who lose theirs.
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Oct 31, 2012 21:33
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Protocol7 posted:And it's not like small denominations of flash memory are cheap, either, and MS could profit from all the idiots who lose theirs. If they set up a program in a few months where you could sign up to have them mail you a little USB stick and then updated Windows RT to give you 6 GB of free additional storage space, that would be kinda huge.
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Oct 31, 2012 21:49
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EvilBit posted:If they set up a program in a few months where you could sign up to have them mail you a little USB stick and then updated Windows RT to give you 6 GB of free additional storage space, that would be kinda huge. It'd be amazing. You still get the same functionality, with only a simple modification of the RT's boot process, and 6GB of extra space, partially negating one of the more prevalent issues with RT. Though I'm still confused why the RT install size is so large.
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Oct 31, 2012 22:55
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Protocol7 posted:It'd be amazing. You still get the same functionality, with only a simple modification of the RT's boot process, and 6GB of extra space, partially negating one of the more prevalent issues with RT. Because its still Windows.
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Oct 31, 2012 23:00
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^ Yeah, I'm still not sure why everyone is still struggling with the "It's the same WIndows you use on x86, just on ARM". Like this:Stubb Dogg posted:how easy it would be to change to another European variant? I don't care about keycaps as long as I could change the layout. Control Panel > Region & Language Settings > Keyboards and Languages > etc
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Oct 31, 2012 23:35
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Literally any question like "How do I do x on RT" can be answered by looking at Windows 7 Home Premium or Windows 8 and pretending Windows Media Player doesn't exist.
CUNT AND PASTE fucked around with this message at 00:01 on Nov 1, 2012 |
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Oct 31, 2012 23:37
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Microsoft Surface Touch Cover More clicks than a 5yo on reddit
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Nov 1, 2012 00:20
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So anyway, my SurfaceRT tablet came earlier today. I've made some quick compiles for ARM by now. First and foremost thing that was annoying is that the Tegra is locked to 48KHz and WASAPI on WindowsRT doesn't seem to want to do sample rate conversion. Thank God I've awaited this tablet before making builds, this would have resulted in a lot of bad ratings due to a non-functional app (WASAPI initialization fails due to bad format). Then, my piano synth takes the cake. Two voices with mediocre complexity make the SurfaceRT trip over itself. I'm not sure what to make of it. Dicking around with the benchmark function of my current ongoing modular synth project, which has a plain C core (with math optimized to boot) and sheds a lot of overhead due to that, suggests that ARM CPUs can't deal with randomly scattered data access patterns. Then again, IE10 and WinRT XAML seem to perform well enough. Seems like dynamic content generation isn't quite the thing for ARM tablets. Too bad I've sold my Intel Atom netbook a while ago, it would have been a nice comparison. I wonder how fast the Snapdragon S4 and the Intel Cloverfield will be. Too bad I don't have the funds to get devices for testing. All of it is reserved for the Surface Pro for personal use.
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Nov 1, 2012 01:18
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Combat Pretzel posted:So anyway, my SurfaceRT tablet came earlier today. I've made some quick compiles for ARM by now. Are you sure it's an issue with ARM processors? The iPad uses one after all and I know there are plenty of "dynamic content generation" apps for iOS. Could it be a Tegra or Win 8 thing then? Butt Soup Barnes fucked around with this message at 01:23 on Nov 1, 2012 |
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Nov 1, 2012 01:21
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I don't know. The synth I wrote in .NET doesn't scale well enough. The current project doesn't either (well, somewhat better by nature of the programming language, but not enough to make the project viable on ARM). Seeing how the Tegra gets generally a bad rap, it would be nice to have a Snapdragon S4 based device. But this is a hobby, I don't have funds for buying devices left and right. --edit: According to specs, the Tegra 3 has 32KB of code and data cache each. I'll probably be making some changes tomorrow that should theoretically run everything from within the cache. Hope I'll see major improvements. Combat Pretzel fucked around with this message at 02:07 on Nov 1, 2012 |
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Nov 1, 2012 01:31
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Does SmartGlass work for anything other than the 360? Could I remotely control a computer using it? I don't mean as a VPN, basically just using it as a mouse/keyboard for a computer/HTPC.
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Nov 1, 2012 02:29
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Combat Pretzel posted:Then, my piano synth takes the cake. Two voices with mediocre complexity make the SurfaceRT trip over itself. I'm not sure what to make of it. Dicking around with the benchmark function of my current ongoing modular synth project, which has a plain C core (with math optimized to boot) and sheds a lot of overhead due to that, suggests that ARM CPUs can't deal with randomly scattered data access patterns. I will laugh like a maniac if they didn't bother to have the CoreCLR do full optimizations on ARM, that's just sad. Once the code is JIT'd and cached it should be almost as fast as C code unless your C library is hand-tuned with inline assembler. In some cases .NET code is faster since object allocation is simple pointer++ logic. (On server machines the GC is even non-pausing concurrent if you opt into that) Don't fret too much about how much faster the Apple A5/A6 chips are; they bought two semiconductor companies and hired a bunch of engineers on top of that. Those people aren't idle. Of course I've also been spoiled by iOS shipping with CoreAudio... I never want to attempt media on Windows again and managed DirectX can kiss my left butt cheek.
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Nov 1, 2012 04:13
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Shrimpy posted:Does SmartGlass work for anything other than the 360? Could I remotely control a computer using it? I don't mean as a VPN, basically just using it as a mouse/keyboard for a computer/HTPC. No, because the entire point of Xbox Smartglass is to interface with an Xbox 360. That's why it's called Xbox Smartglass.
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Nov 1, 2012 06:11
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duTrieux. posted:No, because the entire point of Xbox Smartglass is to interface with an Xbox 360. That's why it's called Xbox Smartglass. I mean, my Zune Pass is now called Xbox Music, despite the fact that it'll never touch an Xbox. As of late, I've given up on trying to read into Microsoft naming conventions.
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Nov 1, 2012 06:33
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Shrimpy posted:Does SmartGlass work for anything other than the 360? Could I remotely control a computer using it? I don't mean as a VPN, basically just using it as a mouse/keyboard for a computer/HTPC. I might be missing something but use the Remote Desktop metro app to control the desktop?
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Nov 1, 2012 06:53
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Combat Pretzel posted:Dicking around with the benchmark function of my current ongoing modular synth project, which has a plain C core (with math optimized to boot) and sheds a lot of overhead due to that, suggests that ARM CPUs can't deal with randomly scattered data access patterns.
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Nov 1, 2012 07:03
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Stubb Dogg posted:Compared to x86, ARM CPUs are extremely memory bandwidth limited and caches are generally a lot smaller. Rearranging memory access pattern would probably help a lot even on S4, Cloverfield probably could handle it better as I heard big part why Intel Medfield was doing so well in benchmarks was much better memory controller. Of course, I've taken the calculator and the internal/external port system of mine generates up to 722MB/s in the worst case. So that might be an issue. Right now the copies take 1300ms per second, using the current linked-list state list system, that copies stuff using a for-loop. Copying a whole memory block of same size using memcpy runs at just 440ms per second. Limiting the ARM version to 32 modules instead of 256 gets it down to estimated 55ms. A list in a block would also guarantee it'd fit in the L1 cache (256 a 8 ports of 64bit double x 2 = 16KB). I guess I have to disable this and make the internal ones external for ARM. Then again, the math involved is expensive, too. My oscillator, currently the most expensive component, runs ~11x slower than on my Intel dev machine. The limit of 32 like mentioned before is necessary. This'll also limit the flexibility of a simulated modular synth. :| Combat Pretzel fucked around with this message at 13:53 on Nov 1, 2012 |
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Nov 1, 2012 13:47
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OldPueblo posted:I might be missing something but use the Remote Desktop metro app to control the desktop? Crap -- I just realized my post said VPN when I meant RDP. Basically, I don't want to log into the desktop like you would during a normal RDP session, I just want to control the computer -- basically use the computer as a keyboard and mouse for the HTPC while it's still displaying to my TV.
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Nov 1, 2012 15:50
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This should probably go in the OP, the Windows Compatibility Center showing support for devices in RT: http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/compatibility/winrt/CompatCenter/Home
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Nov 1, 2012 18:58
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I like the way Windows highlights your touch interactions. Also, is it possible to fingerpaint in OneNote MX? If so, where is that option buried? The only references to drawing I find mention specifically a pen.
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Nov 1, 2012 23:57
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The thread may be amused to hear that the Microsoft Surface is one of Oprah's Favorite Things this year. I am assured that this is a Big Deal. Hey, she got Obama the presidency, right?  My reaction upon being told this was speculation that perhaps there was some kind of endorsement deal going on behind the scenes since Microsoft's marketing department apparently thinks very highly of product placement in general; I was immediately rebuked for even thinking of casting such aspersions on the integrity of Oprah's Favorite Things.
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Nov 2, 2012 00:04
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Get Flash working on all websites via modifying the whitelist: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1961793 Appears to work per thread testimonial. My attempt wasn't successful but it's an online university learning site and they might be using some other web technology as well that's referencing another domain, whatever. I'm still fiddling.
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Nov 2, 2012 00:23
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loquacius posted:The thread may be amused to hear that the Microsoft Surface is one of Oprah's Favorite Things this year. I am assured that this is a Big Deal. Hey, she got Obama the presidency, right? There is no way that is not paid product placement.
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Nov 2, 2012 01:27
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I went out and picked up a Vivo Tab RT today, and it's probably the best tablet I've used, and I own a Xoom and a HP Touchpad. I was tempting the new iPad but it was consistently more jerky and didn't feel as smooth as the Vivo in store.
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Nov 2, 2012 01:37
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All of the favorite things are paid endorsements.
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Nov 2, 2012 01:51
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Protocol7 posted:it's probably the best tablet I've used, and I own a Xoom and a HP Touchpad. This may not be quite the endorsement you intended.
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Nov 2, 2012 02:08
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