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I think there are two reasons I can't bring myself to ever back an MMO kickstarter. First, they're easily the most likely gaming kickstarter to fail even after funding. Second, they're the only kickstarter where you actually won't get the game at the end. I've seen them offering beta access and a certain length of subscription time, but that just doesn't grab me the same way as getting a copy of a normal game, even though I play and enjoy MMOs. I also really question the long term success of their game if they're relying on a subscription model in 2012 (let alone whatever year they think they'll be ready to release).
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Nov 5, 2012 01:11
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Illessa posted:Seems to be a lot of stuff in the Interesting-But-Doomed category at the moment Wow, this looks so pretty. The breakdancing robot video totally sold me. It is a shame it looks like it probably won't make it.
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Nov 5, 2012 06:47
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Illessa posted:Sui Generis - http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1473965863/sui-generis - physics-centric open world fantasy RPG, kind of thing I'm generally very sceptical of, but the video made me sit up and take notice, especially the possibilities of the combat. Looks silly as poo poo but the tech and the ideas for it are great. I would love to see this funded.
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Nov 5, 2012 07:18
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Harlock posted:Ouya update, they have a PCB now.
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Nov 5, 2012 08:24
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I feel like I'm not as down on the Ouya as most people. I have no doubt that they'll miss their Spring release because man that is a tight schedule to keep but I can see it being a real thing and kind of cool.
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Nov 5, 2012 09:08
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TychoCelchuuu posted:It would be more compelling if the people didn't run like robots and fight like drunken four year olds. Dynamic animation is hard as gently caress and I'm sure given time and money they could iron this stuff out, so it's unfortunate that they don't have the support they need to make it look super polished before asking for money from backers, but when your characters keep their torsos almost entirely rigid while running and when the majority of the weapon swing is done by the arm without the rest of the body really participating, you enter a sort of animation uncanny valley where it looks much worse than Diablo style "everyone just wails on each other." I think more important problem is that they simply don't have a half-way decent writer on their team. The story description is nothing but a pile-up of generic salespeak that could be applied to any game ever.
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Nov 5, 2012 09:12
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Fergus Mac Roich posted:I feel like I'm not as down on the Ouya as most people. I have no doubt that they'll miss their Spring release because man that is a tight schedule to keep but I can see it being a real thing and kind of cool. Ditto. I mean, sure, it may turn out to be a dud, but I'd like to hope it won't. Silly naive optimism, I guess.
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Nov 5, 2012 10:04
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Cicero posted:Nice, but really the hardware sounds like it's the easier part of this project. I'm much more worried about the software layer. Making a new digital storefront and game distribution/management platform is hard, and around the time the kickstarter started I believe they hadn't even begun on it. Is it possible they might hook into Google Play for the hard stuff of the buying/distributing itself, and have selecting a game for purchase basically just launch the Play purchase page? I don't believe it'd be unknown or against the Play rights of use, and I think Google'll let you restrict apps to one device.
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Nov 5, 2012 10:07
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Fergus Mac Roich posted:I feel like I'm not as down on the Ouya as most people. I have no doubt that they'll miss their Spring release because man that is a tight schedule to keep but I can see it being a real thing and kind of cool. I lump it into the same horseshit bracket that the 900 back ordered-forever Linux handhelds live in- there will technically be a product at the end but it's a lovely idea run poorly.
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Nov 5, 2012 10:08
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MikeJF posted:Is it possible they might hook into Google Play for the hard stuff of the buying/distributing itself, and have selecting a game for purchase basically just launch the Play purchase page? I don't believe it'd be unknown or against the Play rights of use, and I think Google'll let you restrict apps to one device. Well, if they did that, they wouldn't be able to take a cut off the profits on purchases unless it was an ADDITIONAL 30% on top of the existing Google play fee. Which, I mean, I guess that's "possible". Doesn't look like the direction they're going, though.
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Nov 5, 2012 10:24
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I'm grumpy that - well, let's be honest, my S3 is probably more powerful than the OUYA will be, and it can HDMI out to the TV, and have bluetooth controllers - I feel irritated buying another android device when there's no massive technical reason I should have to. (Except for all the massive reasons that there are.) I kinda just wish there was a console dock I could drop this or other high-end phone into and have it turn into a console. But that'd require coordination and also probably phone makers not having stupid software customization.
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Nov 5, 2012 10:26
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seorin posted:I think there are two reasons I can't bring myself to ever back an MMO kickstarter. First, they're easily the most likely gaming kickstarter to fail even after funding. Second, they're the only kickstarter where you actually won't get the game at the end. I've seen them offering beta access and a certain length of subscription time, but that just doesn't grab me the same way as getting a copy of a normal game, even though I play and enjoy MMOs. They seem to be going for a Guild Wars 2-style scheme where it's F2P with cosmetic microtransactions, which is smart because after the failure of Old Republic it's pretty obvious that subscriptions are a no-go these days. I agree that an MMO Kickstarter is a risky proposition, but the fact that they have a working alpha already is encouraging. Ah well, I knew the risks when I signed up.
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Nov 5, 2012 10:43
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Until I see a low budget MMO actually be fun to play with a decent population, I'm going to be too skeptical to support one on kickstarter. Every single indie/low budget MMO I've seen or played has been just terrible.
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Nov 5, 2012 10:55
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Dominique Pamplemousse dev, Deirdra Kiai, has been interviewed for a podcast, and talks about her Indiegogo campaign and Kickstarter: http://radio.indiegamemag.com/2012/11/01/voices-of-the-devs-deirdra-kiai/ It seems she wrote the engine she uses too!
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Nov 5, 2012 13:12
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Harlock posted:Ouya update, they have a PCB now. Haha, PCBs are the heart and the soul of the Ouya experience? Not, I dunno games or anything? Still, pretty surprised they've even got this far already but it's probably too early for their complete meltdown.
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Nov 5, 2012 13:19
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:Until I see a low budget MMO actually be fun to play with a decent population, I'm going to be too skeptical to support one on kickstarter. Every single indie/low budget MMO I've seen or played has been just terrible. The big problem I see is that fully funded big dev teams can't even put out a half decent product which can keep my interest for more than a month. MMO and indie doesn't mix, I'm not even sure the MMO formula even works with anything outside of what Planetside 2 is doing.
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Nov 5, 2012 13:22
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Sigma-X posted:I lump it into the same horseshit bracket that the 900 back ordered-forever Linux handhelds live in- there will technically be a product at the end but it's a lovely idea run poorly. This. Hardware is hard, and unless the OUYA team are all secret veterans of embedded system design, they're pretty much destined to fail. It'll either never ship, miss many of its specs, or have a price point way beyond what was promised.
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Nov 5, 2012 13:32
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Hm, what happened to the OUYA thread? Anyway, I don't have much of an opinion about the OUYA other than I pledged for it earlier on and then quickly canceled said pledge, but I'd like to chim that, yes, hardware is hard, which is why it's surprising they got a PCB ready on such short notice. It doesn't excuse any of the bullshit surrounding the project, but it's certainly a step towards an actual product.
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Nov 5, 2012 13:45
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Al! posted:Haha, PCBs are the heart and the soul of the Ouya experience? Not, I dunno games or anything? Still, pretty surprised they've even got this far already but it's probably too early for their complete meltdown. coffeetable posted:This. Hardware is hard, and unless the OUYA team are all secret veterans of embedded system design, they're pretty much destined to fail. It'll either never ship, miss many of its specs, or have a price point way beyond what was promised. I'm not really sure what OUYA is going to bring to the table that other boards can't do already, other than packaging it specifically for games (and bringing in developers because of that). You could take the Odroid-X board and package it in a console and it'd probably do the job as-is, currently. I don't know how they're going to keep the price down, Odroid-X is a bare board @ $129 with a quad-core (not unreasonable), add game system development costs as well as packaging to that and it's going to shoot that right up.
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Nov 5, 2012 13:53
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Saoshyant posted:Hm, what happened to the OUYA thread? Anyway, I don't have much of an opinion about the OUYA other than I pledged for it earlier on and then quickly canceled said pledge, but I'd like to chim that, yes, hardware is hard, which is why it's surprising they got a PCB ready on such short notice. It doesn't excuse any of the bullshit surrounding the project, but it's certainly a step towards an actual product. EDIT: Awesome, Sir, You Are Being Hunted has a kickstarter now. It's a cool looking survival/exploration shooter. Think S.T.A.L.K.E.R, but in a procedural English countryside, in a Steampunk world. Shalinor fucked around with this message at 15:26 on Nov 5, 2012 |
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Nov 5, 2012 15:01
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King Burgundy posted:Wow, this looks so pretty. The breakdancing robot video totally sold me. It is a shame it looks like it probably won't make it. I know, of all the struggling Kickstarters I've supported this is maybe the one that makes me saddest. Combining that Minecraft/Little Big Planet/Gary's Mod creativity with relative gravity, a neat aesthetic and a plot, just seems perfect to me. The devs are still maintaining a very upbeat attitude in the comments at least. ARACHNOTRON posted:Looks silly as poo poo but the tech and the ideas for it are great. I would love to see this funded. Yep, animation is really janky and the plot update is awful (which should make it a write-off for me), but when I watch the way the skeleton skitters across the floor from the spell, or the visible weight and momentum of the giant's flail in the fight at the end, I can see where they're coming from about the combat getting very visceral, and I want to see that in an actual game. Saoshyant posted:Anyway, I don't have much of an opinion about the OUYA other than I pledged for it earlier on and then quickly canceled said pledge I was faintly surprised when Ouya was running that it didn't have a negative pledges day. Almost everyone I follow on Kickstarter pledged to it in the initial rush. All but one of them backed out by the end. But yeah the PCB is a pretty good sign that they're on track to produce *something*. Like all these impulse buy gaming devices, it doesn't mean what comes out at the end will be worth owning, but I'm happy to watch from the sidelines.
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Nov 5, 2012 15:27
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TychoCelchuuu posted:It would be more compelling if the people didn't run like robots and fight like drunken four year olds. Dynamic animation is hard as gently caress and I'm sure given time and money they could iron this stuff out, so it's unfortunate that they don't have the support they need to make it look super polished before asking for money from backers, but when your characters keep their torsos almost entirely rigid while running and when the majority of the weapon swing is done by the arm without the rest of the body really participating, you enter a sort of animation uncanny valley where it looks much worse than Diablo style "everyone just wails on each other." Yeah the tech they're showing looks nice (save for the weird walking/running animation) but I have no idea if what they're building will end up as an actual compelling game. As far as I can tell there's not a whole lot of that side done. Shalinor posted:Awesome, Sir, You Are Being Hunted has a kickstarter now. It's a cool looking survival/exploration shooter. Think S.T.A.L.K.E.R, but in a procedural English countryside, in a Steampunk world. Uh excuse me sir it specifically states right there on the page that this game is tweedpunk, not steampunk. Sounds like a neat idea for a game though. Yodzilla fucked around with this message at 15:46 on Nov 5, 2012 |
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Nov 5, 2012 15:44
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Screw it, I just pulled my pledge from Hero-U. Judging from the tone and content of their frequent updates, the Coles went out to lunch sometime during the Nineties and haven't been back since.
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Nov 5, 2012 17:09
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Bieeardo posted:Screw it, I just pulled my pledge from Hero-U. Judging from the tone and content of their frequent updates, the Coles went out to lunch sometime during the Nineties and haven't been back since. Hero-U's Latest Update posted:
... yeah, they basically just lost me. Impossible? Have they even played an RPG in the last 10 years? Hell, did they play any RPGs that were contemporaries of Hero's Quest even? Ultima 7 was approaching that style of system back in the 90's, for pete's sake. Have they never seen a Spiderweb Software game, which are done at a budget level miniscule compared to what Hero-U is asking - Avernum, etc? This reads like someone who hasn't played games this millenia, and honestly thinks that Bethesda's approach is just "what all those kids think RPGs are these days" or something. I don't think they even get that there's a difference between RPGs and ARPGs. Shalinor fucked around with this message at 17:37 on Nov 5, 2012 |
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Nov 5, 2012 17:34
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Holy poo poo, that's an official PR post? That would be a stupid thing to post on a forum, let alone say in your official capacity as a game creator. Not only are they saying "gently caress it, we can't do it, it's impossible", they're wrong about that. I haven't been following Hero-U at all, but that kind of discussion seems indicative of a game in pre-preproduction, it screams "We have no idea what we're doing but guys you know what would be fuckin' awesome?", like some highschooler telling you his idea for the best game ever.
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Nov 5, 2012 17:47
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What's wrong with "you can't make the computer be the DM?"
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Nov 5, 2012 17:58
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TBH, I never saw the appeal of that Hero-U game considering the pitch video was a bunch of caricatures of people I've never heard of and what looked like my mad Aunt and Uncle back from their latest trip to Darkest Africa with stories about "those wacky natives". Plus Project Eternity aside (because it's loving Obsidian) I don't like committing to a Kickstarter without at least a working prototype.
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Nov 5, 2012 18:59
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Megazver posted:What's wrong with "you can't make the computer be the DM?" Left 4 Dead would like a word with you.
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Nov 5, 2012 19:24
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DStecks posted:Left 4 Dead would like a word with you. A bit of randomization and stat tracking in an action game does not a DM make.
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Nov 5, 2012 19:31
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A slight adjustment, then: "You can't make the computer the DM for more than combat"
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Nov 5, 2012 19:31
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I don't think anyone has linked this yet: Rainfall: The Sojourn. It's a 2D action RPG with great looking pixel art, character designs that aren't blatantly offensive, and it even looks like they're putting some effort into the writing. What they have so far looks very professional. I'm really impressed.
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Nov 5, 2012 19:41
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Megazver posted:A bit of randomization and stat tracking in an action game does not a DM make. It's a start. Wolfenstein 3D didn't have 90% of the features that are an integral part of modern shooters. NES game AI was mostly limited to "Walk left/Walk right", but now we can make AIs that can't be beaten at chess. You could make a DM AI. Eventually.
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Nov 5, 2012 19:42
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YourAverageJoe posted:A slight adjustment, then: "You can't make the computer the DM for more than combat" So, basically, what the Hero-U post said? DStecks posted:It's a start. Wolfenstein 3D didn't have 90% of the features that are an integral part of modern shooters. NES game AI was mostly limited to "Walk left/Walk right", but now we can make AIs that can't be beaten at chess. You could make a DM AI. Eventually. A DM AI would need to create characters and plot and write dialogue on fly. It's not going to happen until we get real AI.
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Nov 5, 2012 19:45
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Megazver posted:So, basically, what the Hero-U post said? You're talking about a perfect DM AI, I'm just talking about something good enough to work. Characters can be procedurally generated, and dialogue could be mostly canned but with a thesaurus or something. It doesn't all need to be from scratch, just enough to fool the player. I don't mean to suggest this would be easy, but it's quite possible.
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Nov 5, 2012 19:49
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seorin posted:I don't think anyone has linked this yet: Rainfall: The Sojourn. This seems really good, if you're into JRPGs. I'm not, but I wish them well. I think they're going to get their 6k soon.
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Nov 5, 2012 19:50
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Wow, they really nailed the SNES look. I'm not into JRPGs either but their art is spot-on and 6k isn't asking very much.
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Nov 5, 2012 19:52
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DStecks posted:You're talking about a perfect DM AI, I'm just talking about something good enough to work. Characters can be procedurally generated, and dialogue could be mostly canned but with a thesaurus or something. It doesn't all need to be from scratch, just enough to fool the player. I don't mean to suggest this would be easy, but it's quite possible. Well that's just picking nits, and it's certainly no reason to be all "Ugh!! They don't know what they're talking about and the game they're making will probably suck!!!"
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Nov 5, 2012 19:56
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DStecks posted:You're talking about a perfect DM AI, I'm just talking about something good enough to work. Characters can be procedurally generated, and dialogue could be mostly canned but with a thesaurus or something. Except that's just not going to work. You go through the canned dialogue (the only good thing about this system, since it was written by humans) once, then it's just the same poo poo over and over. Here, this is what Chris Crawford ended up with after twenty years of pursuing this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXhH9EviQV8 Fascinating, isn't it? I can't wait for it to replace Chris Avellone's dialogue and character work! Years and years of content, instead of a few weeks!
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Nov 5, 2012 19:57
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Yeah, there is plenty to find worrying about Hero-U, but their entirely reasonable points that computer games have still not begun to approach the infinite variability that a human Dungeon Master could bring to a game in the 1970s is entirely accurate. I have no idea how this is a controversial statement. A computer game as we currently conceptualize it cannot completely change the game based on the capricious decisions of the player, whereas a tabletop role-playing campaign could change its entire rule-system half-way through if the players decided they did not like the current one. It would be like the dream of playing Grand Theft Auto and being able to enter one neighborhood and play Thief instead, or to hop in an airplane and fly off to World War II Britain. It is theoretically conceivable that a game can get to the point that it can be anything you want it to be, but saying we are not there yet is entirely true.
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Nov 5, 2012 20:26
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seorin posted:I don't think anyone has linked this yet: Rainfall: The Sojourn. Wow, I love the look of this game. I won't be backing as I'm not sure if it's my thing, though.
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Nov 5, 2012 20:28
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