|
iyaayas01 posted:/\ Are you seriously comparing Western procured weapons like the Block 60 F-16 to Iranian indigenously produced weapons like the revolutionary ( How did those western weapons work or for say, Iraq (population: 8 million), when they went to war with Iran? Regardless of the crappies air force, dog fighting doesn't really happen anymore; I'm pretty sure the Iranians have over the horizon radar and missiles, and teens of thousands of teem, to boot. I mean who had the better air force - Germany, or Russia?
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2012 14:46
|
|
) twin-tailed F-5? Like I'm not trying to turn this into some 
post but jesus christ, those aren't anywhere near comparable. /\
|
|
| # ? Apr 29, 2024 00:10 |
|
|
iyaayas01 posted:/\ Are you seriously comparing Western procured weapons like the Block 60 F-16 to Iranian indigenously produced weapons like the revolutionary ( Christ, can you even be bothered to look up anything on the Islamic Republic of Iran Air Force? Here's a site about them and they point out some of the weapons they have. They have F-4 Phantoms, F-5 Freedom Fighters, and F-14 Tomcats that were leftover from the Shah. With that inventory they managed to fight off the Iraqis for 8 bloody years in some of the biggest air battles since Korea. After Desert Storm, they impounded and kept all Iraqi aircraft that fled into Iran to avoid the coalition so now they have Mirage F1BQ/EQ , Su-24MK Fencer-Ds, MiG-29 Fulcrums, Su-20s, Su-22M Fitters, Su-25 Frogfoots, MiG-23s in several configurations and a number of Il-76s. They also have been buying planes here and there from the Russians and the Chinese for a while now. On top of that, they have a decent SAM system that part of which is made up of old missiles that the US sold to them in the 80's to get hostages out of Lebanon and give money to the contras. But no, keep wanking off about how anything without a "Made by Lockheed-Martin" stamp is useless and go see how an Air war, or any war, with Iran would go. Part of me hopes it would wake up Americans about how war is hell, but the cynic in me knows it would only end with demands of nuking from millions.
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2012 15:06
|
|
|
If you guys are worried about a scenario wherein the UAE and Iran are in a shooting war, yet no one else is involved, that hardly seems realistic. iyaayas01 was comparing new procurements in the UAE to the indigenously produced Iranian aircraft. The comparison is that the former is quite good and the latter is pretty crap. If you want to bring up areas where Iran is scary, bring up their UAV, TBM, LRR, ASCM, and and potential ASBM capabilities rather than their traditional air forces and numerous, but antiquated SAM/AAA systems.
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2012 15:11
|
|
|
We saw an old SAM system take out a stealth fighter during the Kosovo War, and I would imagine that the Iranians would be more willing and determined to fight off any UAE incursions than Vice versa.
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2012 15:13
|
|
|
Brown Moses posted:He's a really great, if depressing, article about an opposition sniper, The Confessions of a Sniper: A Rebel Gunman in Aleppo and His Conscience. That sniper is in terrible need of time off the line. Much more of the same and he'll be a shuddering, over-stressed wreck. But I don't suppose that there's much R&R going on during a revolution.
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2012 15:28
|
|
|
I don't know if any of this has been posted here before, but VICE magazine, in between interviews about penises and cocaine, has actually got some pretty interesting embedded reporting going on with the Syrian resistance: their last issue was called The Syria Issue, and there's a lot of good human interest and war reporting there. In particular, I found this article about gunrunning to be quite interesting.
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2012 15:41
|
|
|
Brown Blitzkrieg posted:And what good would that do? UAE population: 5 million, Iran population: 125 million. UAE buys weapons from: USA - other side of the world, Iran buys weapons from: manufactures its own. The local population is around 1-2 million, the rest are expatriats. I was in the uae army formerly and i say this with experience, the whole gulf defense force with saudi, oman and qatar included wouldnt probably be able to deal with iran in a military action. Their only real experience was Kuwait in 1991 and it wasn't an easy offensive.
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2012 15:45
|
|
|
Brown Blitzkrieg posted:UAE population: 5 million, Iran population: 125 million. Brown Blitzkrieg posted:Iraq (population: 8 million) You have Google, there's no excuse for this. Stop making up numbers.
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2012 15:56
|
|
|
LP97S posted:Christ, can you even be bothered to look up anything on the Islamic Republic of Iran Air Force? Here's a site about them and they point out some of the weapons they have. This happens every time iyaayas shows up in D&D, but it's not his fault. On paper, the Iranian air force looks like it could pose a threat. The reality is different. Regarding the American made planes Iran has, you said it yourself: they're left over from the Shah. Even allowing for some parts to have gone through as part of Iran-Contra, it's been how many years since Iran got any spare parts for these planes? Do the math. The US has issues with mechanical malfunctions in planes and helicopters form that era, and that's with the necessary parts for repair. The biggest issue though is pilot training. During the Iran-Iraq war, the majority of the pilots in the new Iranian air force were former members of the Royal air force that stayed behind in Iran. The level of training among Iranian air force pilots has undoubtedly gone down, if only for the fact that jet fuel is very expensive to refine, and thus it's rationed. Average flight hours for Iranian pilots are lower than for most other air forces world wide. Additionally, it's a "pariah" state, Iran can't just hold war games with other participants. In the event of an armed conflict with Iran, unless it's a repeat of the Iran-Iraq war, the biggest threat to an opposing air force will be Iran's SAMs, not it's planes.
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2012 16:08
|
|
|
If the UAE and Iran actually started shooting at each other the US Navy would simply cruise missile every single plane, runway, and SAM. Then the Airforce would come in and we'd claim air superiority. Most air forces we come into contact with get blown up before they get into the air now.
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2012 16:12
|
|
|
SilentD posted:If the UAE and Iran actually started shooting at each other the US Navy would simply cruise missile every single plane, runway, and SAM. Then the Airforce would come in and we'd claim air superiority. You're a funny guy. Iran isn't Iraq. US forces will take losses, especially if the fighting takes place in the Persian Gulf where the Iranians have ample anti-ship missiles.
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2012 16:27
|
|
|
Fizzil posted:The local population is around 1-2 million, the rest are expatriats. I was in the uae army formerly and i say this with experience, the whole gulf defense force with saudi, oman and qatar included wouldnt probably be able to deal with iran in a military action. Their only real experience was Kuwait in 1991 and it wasn't an easy offensive. This is what I was thinking. They aren't going to sit around while Iran attacks the UAE. LP97S posted:I never said that Iran was going to attack the UAE. I should have been more clear with the vice-versa, I mean that the UAE wouldn't fight too hard while Iran probably would in any little conflict or even skirmish out there, either in the Gulf or Iranian territory. I was referring to someone on the previous page. reagan fucked around with this message at 16:57 on Dec 5, 2012 |
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2012 16:27
|
|
|
I never said that Iran was going to attack the UAE. I should have been more clear with the vice-versa, I mean that the UAE wouldn't fight too hard while Iran probably would in any little conflict or even skirmish out there, either in the Gulf or Iranian territory.
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2012 16:30
|
|
|
LP97S posted:We saw an old SAM system take out a stealth fighter during the Kosovo War, and I would imagine that the Iranians would be more willing and determined to fight off any UAE incursions than Vice versa. Special circumstances. The pilot of the F-117 had strict orders to fly the exact same route and altitude every single sortie.
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2012 16:56
|
|
|
-Troika- posted:Special circumstances. The pilot of the F-117 had strict orders to fly the exact same route and altitude every single sortie. Well the US Air Force has a bad habit of never changing plans and I would safely bet that the US hasn't learned a whole lot in the last 10 years either.
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2012 16:59
|
|
|
LP97S posted:Well the US Air Force has a bad habit of never changing plans and I would safely bet that the US hasn't learned a whole lot in the last 10 years either. You actually make the point that the US military has been operational for well over the past decade and hopefully learning from some of those mistakes made earlier. While not being credibly challenged for the most part, opening conflicts in both Iraq and Libya show that when the US wants to degrade an advisory’s military, nothing like a wave of potentially, hundreds of cruise missiles plus stealth bomber strikes to rain on your parade.
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2012 17:08
|
|
|
Smashurbanipal posted:This happens every time iyaayas shows up in D&D, but it's not his fault. On paper, the Iranian air force looks like it could pose a threat. The reality is different. Regarding the American made planes Iran has, you said it yourself: they're left over from the Shah. Even allowing for some parts to have gone through as part of Iran-Contra, it's been how many years since Iran got any spare parts for these planes? Do the math. The US has issues with mechanical malfunctions in planes and helicopters form that era, and that's with the necessary parts for repair. If they can make their own (upgraded) F-5s they can probably make spare parts for aircraft from the 60-80ies. But no, it's probably not their air force an invader would need to worry about primarily.
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2012 17:31
|
|
|
Pimpmust posted:If they can make their own (upgraded) F-5s they can probably make spare parts for aircraft from the 60-80ies. It's actually about as difficult to make spare parts that you don't have molds for as it is to just design and build a whole new aircraft.
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2012 17:49
|
|
|
The issue is not the air war, the issue is Iran closing the Straits of Hormuz and holding the entire world economy to ransom unless they get what they want.
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2012 18:10
|
|
|
Really? Being able to retrieve a patch of sea or shoreline is something the U.S. Navy in full force should have no trouble doing, whatsoever, especially against Iran. If Iran claims to close Hormuz, we'll park a couple of carriers in there in one of America's favorite pastimes, a classic Freedom of Navigation exercise. What will Iran do? What could Iran do? It would be an entirely emasculating experience to just have the carriers sitting there, in what they claim to be their area, knowing they can do absolutely nothing about them.
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2012 18:27
|
|
|
Zeroisanumber posted:It's actually about as difficult to make spare parts that you don't have molds for as it is to just design and build a whole new aircraft. And obviously they can manage to build whole new aircraft just fine so... we agree?
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2012 18:31
|
|
|
Alchenar posted:The issue is not the air war, the issue is Iran closing the Straits of Hormuz and holding the entire world economy to ransom unless they get what they want. Iran has tried that before, and gotten hilariously owned. Also, I can build a sopwith camel but that doesn't mean I know how to make spare parts for an F-22.
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2012 18:34
|
|
|
News just in: The RAF have put in an order for #5,490 HESA Saeqeh, to be delivered to the western front by spring.
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2012 18:57
|
|
|
Golbez posted:Really? Being able to retrieve a patch of sea or shoreline is something the U.S. Navy in full force should have no trouble doing, whatsoever, especially against Iran. I've been thinking, with them throwing all this cash around in Dubai and Abu Dhabi, why hasn't the United Arab Emirates just build a man-made canal to get around the whole Hormuz Strait thing? I'm guessing getting the Western militaries to do their fighting is probably cheaper. Pimpmust posted:News just in: The RAF have put in an order for #5,490 HESA Saeqeh, to be delivered to the western front by spring. At least when the inevitable movie is made, we can just fancy up some F-5s like they did in Top Gun. Young Freud fucked around with this message at 19:39 on Dec 5, 2012 |
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2012 19:37
|
|
|
Crasscrab posted:You're a funny guy. Iran isn't Iraq. US forces will take losses, especially if the fighting takes place in the Persian Gulf where the Iranians have ample anti-ship missiles. Nobody said they were! I was simply commenting on Iran's "Air Force". The current US approach to these things is to simply scream "our cruise missiles will blot out the sky" and blast every plane someone has while FUBAR'ing the air strips we decide we don't need. Also... nobody is going to win a naval war with us, Republican fear mongering over our "smallest Navy EVARRRRRRRRRRRRR oh noes the Chinese" nonsense aside. Our military is insanely good at destroying things and killing people, occupations and rebuilding not so much. The Iranians could certainly gum up the straights for a bit and kill a few people, but if we decided we weren't screwing around sent more than one carrier group there the amount of carnage we could inflict is astronomical. But all of this is moot, I don't think the Iranians are stupid or crazy enough to get into a naval battle against the US. SilentD fucked around with this message at 19:43 on Dec 5, 2012 |
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2012 19:41
|
|
|
Pimpmust posted:And obviously they can manage to build whole new aircraft just fine so... we agree? Yeah, just  .
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2012 20:06
|
|
|
From HamaEcho, one of the best Syrian tweeps out there:quote:HamaEcho: #offline forever. We are going to Ghouta soon. I have a bad feeling about this but the only thing that can happen is martyrdom or victory 
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2012 21:03
|
|
|
Brown Moses posted:He's a really great, if depressing, article about an opposition sniper, The Confessions of a Sniper: A Rebel Gunman in Aleppo and His Conscience.  all you want
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2012 21:03
|
|
|
SilentD posted:Also... nobody is going to win a naval war with us, Republican fear mongering over our "smallest Navy EVARRRRRRRRRRRRR oh noes the Chinese" nonsense aside. Our military is insanely good at destroying things and killing people, occupations and rebuilding not so much. I don't think it can be overstated - as good as our military is at doing anything, the navy really skews the curve upward. There is literally no navy, in its entirety in the world, that can stand up to a single American carrier group, and we have eleven of them. (Now, when you bring air forces into it, things get hairy, but we wouldn't be going up against the Russian or Chinese air forces. We'd be going up against the Iranian. They wouldn't dare.) Actually I could be overstating it but I don't think I am. I think the world is perfectly happy playing for second place, and we're perfectly happy playing Freedom of Navigation.
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2012 21:11
|
|
|
This really fishy video video has been posted online supposedly showing an opposition member preparing poisonous gases and killing bunnies, claiming he'll do the same to Alawites. Can any chemistry experts take a look at the compounds and chemicals on display and provide any more info? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDtVigGU0U4
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2012 21:12
|
|
|
SilentD posted:But all of this is moot, I don't think the Iranians are stupid or crazy enough to get into a naval battle against the US. Seriously. Iran's not going to start poo poo. Any sabre rattling they do is intended for domestic consumption, just like how we're not going to start poo poo with Russia or China no matter how much our politicians rattle sabres or play wargames. In an actual pitched fight we can literally take the whole world with one hand tied behind our back (imagine the Navy sinks overnight and we have to rely on the Marines' 9(?) carriers instead). Iran would be a speedbump, flattening their military would take a few weeks at the outside, probably under a week. SAMs are no fun but the US has the kind of equipment that only running a bloated, trillion dollar budget for more than a half-century can provide. Sure, there would be some lucky F-35 shootdowns and probably some US casualties, but open combat with the US, by any party let alone Iran, is utterly laughable. We prepare heavily for the Suppression of Enemy Air Defenses/Wild Weasel role. Their SAMs are meant to deter other nations in the region with much more limited range and capabilities, not the United States. It'd be like Texas not only seceding, but declaring war on the US. After the generals got done laughing, they'd turn every runway into a gravel road, every airplane and tank into a pile of smouldering scrap, every soldier into Aunt Beru and Uncle Owen from Star Wars. Of course, the occupation wouldn't go nearly so well, but the head to head military action part is a loving joke. Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 21:18 on Dec 5, 2012 |
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2012 21:14
|
|
|
Golbez posted:I don't think it can be overstated - as good as our military is at doing anything, the navy really skews the curve upward. There is literally no navy, in its entirety in the world, that can stand up to a single American carrier group, and we have eleven of them. (Now, when you bring air forces into it, things get hairy, but we wouldn't be going up against the Russian or Chinese air forces. We'd be going up against the Iranian. They wouldn't dare.) We'd never have all 11 out at sea at one time, at most we'd have 6/7. The whole reason why there are that many carrier groups is when one goes into port for a major overhaul that lasts several years another comes out of drydock to take its place. Other navies don't have that luxury so you end up with weird situations that they have to account for (like the Royal Navy having carriers that they couldn't do anything with because they had retired the planes that flew off of them).
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2012 21:16
|
|
|
suboptimal posted:From HamaEcho, one of the best Syrian tweeps out there: What-where -is ghouta, and why is that said with such ominous tones?
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2012 21:17
|
|
|
mediadave posted:What-where -is ghouta, and why is that said with such ominous tones? It's an area east of Damascus where there's been a lot of air defence bases captured.
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2012 21:18
|
|
|
Brown Moses posted:It's an area east of Damascus where there's been a lot of air defence bases captured. There's also a Ghouta district in Homs, I think there's been a lot of violence there.
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2012 21:40
|
|
|
I've put together a post showing some of the more unusual DIY weapon videos I couldn't include in my Foreign Policy post http://brown-moses.blogspot.co.uk/2012/12/how-to-build-army-in-your-basement-even.html
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2012 21:45
|
|
|
Brown Moses posted:This really fishy video video has been posted online supposedly showing an opposition member preparing poisonous gases and killing bunnies, claiming he'll do the same to Alawites. Can any chemistry experts take a look at the compounds and chemicals on display and provide any more info? Not a chemistry expert so I can't give a full answer to this, but one of the few labels I could make out was Potassium C(K)lorate. Mixing a solution of this with sulphuric acid can result in the production of chlorine gas, which may be what killed the rabbits. You'd expect the rabbits to show irritation of the eyes and an increased effect from being closer to the ground, which was what was observed, so this is a possibility. -edit That said, the gas itself wasn't particularly visible which you might expect with chlorine To expand a bit, chlorine gas isn't particularly hard to manufacture, its possible to do at home accidently with bleach. If it is chlorine, its probably not evidence of a particularly sophisticated chemistry setup. Gimby fucked around with this message at 22:01 on Dec 5, 2012 |
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2012 21:49
|
|
|
Jesus, I feel like if I had an Arabic name, having that video in my browser history would be used as evidence in a terrorism indictment against me.
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2012 21:56
|
|
|
SedanChair posted:Jesus, I feel like if I had an Arabic name, having that video in my browser history would be used as evidence in a terrorism indictment against me. I sometimes worry that checking 400 Youtube channels from Syria every single day for nine months might have gotten me onto a watch list.
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2012 21:58
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 29, 2024 00:10 |
|
|
Brown Moses posted:I sometimes worry that checking 400 Youtube channels from Syria every single day for nine months might have gotten me onto a watch list. Not to mention writing articles on improvised explosives and other homemade weapons.
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2012 22:03
|
|
