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homeless poster posted:I do wish they would have set it up so you could potentially kill the attackers first and then maybe each surviving NPC has a mini-quest or whatever. The point was that they die no matter what you do though. Like, that was The Point.
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Dec 17, 2012 20:18
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I really like the idea of having a scene where you're in full control of your character and all their abilities and simply can't win no matter how hard you try, but the caravan scene still doesn't work out very well for any courier high enough of a level to just effortlessly cut through the White Legs. I have no doubt that it would have been difficult to do in F:NV's unweildy engine, but having the caravan getting gunned down in a retreat and having to make a break for it yourself before you're overrun would establish them as a lot more credible threat.
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Dec 17, 2012 20:40
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IIRC they had a lot of problems with that scene as is, technically. I have a feeling with more time / money it would have been slightly more inspired.
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Dec 17, 2012 20:50
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Now that I think about it, I feel like I remember reading that HH was the most crunched for time and resources of all the DLC. Really, there's enough good ideas in it for an entire game, or at least a full-fledged expansion pack (are those even a thing anymore?) but there's a number of missed chances (like the ambush scene) and the story ends before it really begins.
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Dec 17, 2012 20:56
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Suddenly, after starting s new game, I have a thing where my character will sometimes walk another step or two after I let go of the keys. Anyone know what that might be about? It's extremely annoying.
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Dec 17, 2012 21:14
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...sticky keyboard?
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Dec 17, 2012 21:27
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I've had that before, fairly sure it's a gamebryo thing but I can't remember what, if any, was the fix.
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Dec 17, 2012 21:29
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I've had that. Usually when I'm sneaking around bear traps.
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Dec 17, 2012 22:26
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MrL_JaKiri posted:I've had that before, fairly sure it's a gamebryo thing but I can't remember what, if any, was the fix. We really need a Gamebryo emoticon like  .
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Dec 17, 2012 22:32
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2house2fly posted:If Dead Money is pissing you off take the perks Fortune Finder and Them's Good Eatin' and also the perk that's like Fortune Finder but for ammo if you really don't want to use melee weapons. The Sierra Madre chips which the vending machines use for crafting are affected by Fortune Finder so you'll be swimming in them after a few minutes, and Them's Good Eatin' pretty much guarantees you a load of free food items. I think that only comes with Old World Blues, so be sure to download and install Old World Blues. Anyway, those perks make the whole thing much easier and defeat the point of the expansion as much as exploiting the engine to steal all the loot at the end. In addition, take Light Step. It's never more useful than in Dead Money.
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Dec 17, 2012 22:34
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Kalos posted:I really like the idea of having a scene where you're in full control of your character and all their abilities and simply can't win no matter how hard you try, but the caravan scene still doesn't work out very well for any courier high enough of a level to just effortlessly cut through the White Legs. I have no doubt that it would have been difficult to do in F:NV's unweildy engine, but having the caravan getting gunned down in a retreat and having to make a break for it yourself before you're overrun would establish them as a lot more credible threat. I feel like this happens a ton in games where violent combat is the primary conflict resolution mechanic - eventually it becomes very difficult to challenge the players because they have acquired more exp/weapons/allies/whatever than anyone else, and then combat either turns into huge swarms of dudes trying to wear the player down via attrition or it becomes enemies with monstrous health reserves such that the player is just hacking away long after the encounter stops being fun. The cousin to this scenario is when players are still accosted by bandits along the road despite them running around with forbidden artifacts that spew fire and a trained army of dragons and the player is also renowned across the land for being the only man capable of killing an insane god. I think it would have been cool to come at HH from a different perspective - whichever faction (NCR/Legion/House/YM) your character has the best rep with sends someone to ask him/her to try and find the legendary Burned Man; each group has plausible reasons for wanting to find him so it makes sense they'd send a courier who has literally survived death to find the most dangerous man alive. When you get into the canyon, you see Joshua and the Dead Horses trying to protect the Sorrows from a White Legs ambush, and then you can determine how you approach the DLC by your next actions, without having to have the game tell you what to do. If you jump in and help Joshua and his allies then the White Legs get run off and you kind of follow the DLC as it is presented. But, you could also decide to help the White Legs (say if you were pro-Legion) and maybe Joshua escapes and then you get to explore Zion while trying to smoke him out from the various Dead Horses and Sorrows camps. The encounter is still themed as a combat encounter, but it lets the player feel like they're making an active choice in the outcome, rather than passively having to just watch NPCs kill NPCs until you finally round a corner and shoot the last guy only whoops that was Follows-Chalk looks like you need to reload and watch the entire vignette play out again.
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Dec 17, 2012 23:09
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homeless poster posted:[...]whoops that was Follows-Chalk looks like you need to reload and watch the entire vignette play out again. This is what happened to me the first time, except I either didn't get or didn't notice the failed quest notification so I didn't realise I wasn't supposed to kill that dude. I ended up wandering the great divide for hours thinking "wow this game is doing a great job of making me feel like I'm lost in the middle of loving nowhere with no idea how to get home, what fresh game design!" Until I killed some more named hostiles and got a bunch of failed quests and realised I was doing it wrong. 
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Dec 18, 2012 02:22
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SplitSoul posted:Suddenly, after starting s new game, I have a thing where my character will sometimes walk another step or two after I let go of the keys. Anyone know what that might be about? It's extremely annoying. I had a similar problem with Bioshock, and it was that the system was buffering my movement keys, so when I held down W for more than a second the game was being fed wwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww. I changed my keyboard controls to delay a lot more and then repeat the key a lot slower and it fixed it in that. If all else fails, try that.
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Dec 18, 2012 03:39
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JawKnee posted:Man, I don't know about you, but I really wanted to go adventuring with Stella Jed was the best, because he has the same voice actor as Lee from The Walking Dead game - his retelling of the back story of Joshua Graham is really well done, and some of my favourite voice acting in the game (aside from Keith Szarabajka as Joshua, John Doman as Caesar and René Auberjonois as House). Shame he doesn't stick around for a bit longer, though.
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Dec 18, 2012 03:53
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The best voice acting in the game is obviously tabitha, I don't know how you could even argue.
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Dec 18, 2012 03:57
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ClearAirTurbulence posted:I had a similar problem with Bioshock, and it was that the system was buffering my movement keys, so when I held down W for more than a second the game was being fed wwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww. I changed my keyboard controls to delay a lot more and then repeat the key a lot slower and it fixed it in that. If all else fails, try that. If you have StickyKeys enabled in your Windows accessibility options, it should activate after you hit shift 5 times. Turn it off.
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Dec 18, 2012 05:58
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Realized today that there's no way to recruit the White Gloves Society to fight with you at Hoover Dam, allowing a horde of cannibals in tuxedos to support your cause. Needless to say, I've written an angry letter to Obsidian.
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Dec 18, 2012 09:58
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fentan posted:This is what happened to me the first time, except I either didn't get or didn't notice the failed quest notification so I didn't realise I wasn't supposed to kill that dude. This is the best problem, because it's one that ropekid has no idea how it happened (the version of the DLC that they sent off to Bethesda had him invincible until after your conversation with him)
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Dec 18, 2012 10:15
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MrL_JaKiri posted:This is the best problem, because it's one that ropekid has no idea how it happened (the version of the DLC that they sent off to Bethesda had him invincible until after your conversation with him) He was invincible for me when I played. I saw another piece of poo poo tribal running up and I shot him like 4 times in the head before I realized he was coming to talk with me.
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Dec 18, 2012 10:24
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I've rediscovered new vegas after a long long absence and been having fun with my melee character. I was just wondering that for my next playthrough I want to try to kill as many NPC:s as possible, is this even viable? I mean I know you can kill House and Caesar and Yes Man but what would happen if I did?
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Dec 18, 2012 10:55
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Killing House or Caesar closes off the respective endings for you. Yes man doesn't give a poo poo.
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Dec 18, 2012 11:07
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Smol posted:Killing House or Caesar closes off the respective endings for you. Yes man doesn't give a poo poo. Serves me right. Bad robot. Baaaaaad Robot. I made you do this.
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Dec 18, 2012 11:28
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A lot of contempt for HH comes up when fans talk about New Vegas and I have trouble understanding why, as it's my favorite DLC of the pack. It has some pretty dumb design issues and (if you're a Guns-oriented character) .45 is pretty drat broken, but I thought the overall narrative and Zion specifically were pretty drat cool. Something about a crazy burned mormon on a quest for revenge spoke to me. Then again, I buy into the whole disguised-in-bandages shtick. It's strange because a lot of the issues people bring up with Honest Hearts are the same issues I had with Lonesome Road. It was neat, but felt really aimless and oriented at a really specific character set. I liked Ulysses as a character, but I thought the actual Lonesome Road scenario was overly hoaky even for the Fallout universe. The final confrontation sort of lacked the emotional punch I wanted from the Ulysses narrative simply because gigantic nuke silo shootout with a hoard of angry zombies. Also, I felt the risk/reward and general perks of the road to be overall unimpressive when Joshua's outfit and A Light Shining In The Darkness made me op enough. Though, I think a lot of this is playstyle bias on account of me basically being completely incapable of wandering the Courier's Mile and similarly not being a big guns character. The same could probably go for Old World Blues if it weren't so goddamn funny. Dead Money is just Dead Money. I enjoy it in theory but hate it in practice. That's sort of what I like best about the New Vegas DLCs though, they force you to uncomfortably try new play styles you wouldn't otherwise experiment with simply because the design, for better or for worse, is oriented to highlight and serve those styles only. They seriously nailed the feeling of Fallout 2, where you would often hit times where your character would just be completely inept due to simply not being capable of certain things, and despite this being "detrimental" it never actually impeded process and instead routed characters into new paths and workarounds that changed the way the game was experienced. And that's something I appreciate.
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Dec 18, 2012 12:28
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DamnGlitch posted:I imagine forcing your caravan to die has to do thematically with aligning your with joshua. I sure as poo poo hated the whitelegs after that opening. That bit pissed me off because I had no say in whether they survived or not.
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Dec 18, 2012 12:53
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Knuc If U Buck posted:That bit pissed me off because I had no say in whether they survived or not. I dunno. I loving hate 99% of escort quests, so at least them dying straight away prevented me from wasting x hours trying to keep them alive.
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Dec 18, 2012 14:52
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Knuc If U Buck posted:That bit pissed me off because I had no say in whether they survived or not. The White Legs who ambush the caravan are indestructible until everyone is dead, and since I'm a hell of a shot with an AMR I noticed.
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Dec 18, 2012 14:52
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I just started a run with bumped-up Strength and weapons skills right out of the gate and holy poo poo, does it make a difference. I can remember with my first few characters how hard it was to kill anything at the earliest levels. Now, I can one-or-two shot pretty much anybody except the more heavily-armored enemies like the Legion. Also, my current run was going to be a gimmick run where I play as a "Krampus"-like Christmas Demon whose entire purpose was "punishing the naughty", which could be anything from drinking to swearing to, of course, raping and pillaging. I was going to side with the Legion because they have a similar outlook. Then some silly Legionnaires decided to try and rob an innocent caravan. Guess who's now on my Naughty List?
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Dec 18, 2012 16:10
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Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:The White Legs who ambush the caravan are indestructible until everyone is dead, and since I'm a hell of a shot with an AMR I noticed. The first time I ever did HH I got to the bridge and picked off the guy on the hill with a .50MG Explosive round... but still got to talk to the guy. I must've killed the guy Follows-Chalk was supposed to off.
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Dec 18, 2012 16:14
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I feel like I was able to kill some of the white legs before everyone is dead, but more just keep coming? Why does it feel like my game is playing differently from everyone else  Maybe they did some changes in Project Nevada
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Dec 18, 2012 16:28
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Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:The White Legs who ambush the caravan are indestructible until everyone is dead, and since I'm a hell of a shot with an AMR I noticed. Not until everyone is dead, just until they all get off their designated killshot. There's certainly worse ways to do that sort of scene though. In Guild Wars 2 (a game where nearly everyone under you direct command dies), there's a bit where you search for a downed airship pilot, and even after defending her well enough that she didn't take a scratch, she promptly falls over dead in a cut-scene, succumbing to her non-existent injuries.
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Dec 18, 2012 16:29
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laplace posted:A lot of contempt for HH comes up when fans talk about New Vegas and I have trouble understanding why, as it's my favorite DLC of the pack. It has some pretty dumb design issues and (if you're a Guns-oriented character) .45 is pretty drat broken, but I thought the overall narrative and Zion specifically were pretty drat cool. Something about a crazy burned mormon on a quest for revenge spoke to me. Then again, I buy into the whole disguised-in-bandages shtick. I'm playing through New Vegas again and I'm inclined to agree with you, Honest Hearts is definitely the best DLC in my opinion. It's story is good, the main character is relatable and sympathetic in a way that Elijah and to a lesser extent the members of the Think Tank are not, And unlike those two, the actual gameplay is good, as opposed to the trap-filled nightmate of Dead Money or the "enless parade of enemies who spawn behind you" of Old World Blues. I haven't done Lonesome Road yet, but my overriding memory of that DLC was the fact that this was talked up as some seriously epic and incredible life-changing event for me and Ulysses and instead I spent the entire time wandering through a ruin Ullyses kept insisting was our mutual home but my character had no memory of.
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Dec 18, 2012 18:00
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I really wish Jed survived the ambush, that way he could of acted like a trader instead of Joshua. I hate the fact that after the final mission starts there's no longer any traders or doctors in Zion.
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Dec 18, 2012 18:02
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Reveilled posted:instead I spent the entire time wandering through a ruin Ullyses kept insisting was our mutual home but my character had no memory of. You not knowing about it can be regarded as thematically relevant
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Dec 18, 2012 18:26
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It was in this thread I think where discussion of Lonesome Road finally got me to see the light about it. The Divide is basically a stand-in for/Chris Avellone's criticism of open world games like New Vegas and Skyrim, where you do a bunch of fetch quests to get money or experience and then move on and forget about them. That random farmer you killed for the Dark Brotherhood, who was he? What are the implications of his death? You the player don't care, you just did it to advance the Dark Brotherhood questline. I don't think it's necessarily woven into the narrative very well, but I love an RPG writer taking that attitude towards RPG quests. Kind of like how people in Dead Money keep talking about how the Pip-Boy dulls your mind.
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Dec 18, 2012 18:44
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MrL_JaKiri posted:You not knowing about it can be regarded as thematically relevant I haven't relayed it yet like I said so this is based on a somewhat vague memory, but I think it would have been thematically relevant if I had blown up ulysses home and didn't know about it. But I don't think I actually did that, as I recall the divide was my home too, and that felt utterly nonsensical when my character's dialogue was effectively railroaded in the direction of "I don't remember this place". Maybe there is some thematic depth in it all, but I found it difficult to engage with because it felt like "Dungeon Master's favourite NPC gets his own adventure".
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Dec 18, 2012 19:47
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I've been re-exploring some of the Goodsprings quests, almost every time I help the town, only once have I helped the Powder Gangers. I started a new character who was going to try and follow a neutral harm reduction strategy, and my plan was that I would kill Ringo to keep the Powder Gangers from attacking the town, saving multiple lives by ending just one. Well, I found that there is no option to tell Cobb that you killed Ringo until after you propose taking over the town, it would have been awesome if there was an option, probably based on a speech check, where you could say "There's no reason to bother this town anymore, there's got to be better pickings elsewhere now that Ringo is dead.". Nope, even if you kill Ringo you have to either start a gang vs. town gunfight or leave the town in an unresolved state. Also found another oddity, if you kill Chet, even in one sneak attack with no witnesses, Trudy knows and will come running out of the bar after you.
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Dec 18, 2012 20:25
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kingturnip posted:I dunno. I loving hate 99% of escort quests, so at least them dying straight away prevented me from wasting x hours trying to keep them alive. Orange Crush Rush posted:I really wish Jed survived the ambush, that way he could of acted like a trader instead of Joshua. I hate the fact that after the final mission starts there's no longer any traders or doctors in Zion. Also missed Wild Wasteland opportunity, When Stella dies, have Jed scream,"STELLLLLLLLLA"
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Dec 18, 2012 20:34
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I believe it's because of how consoles handle DLC and patches still, but you can probably find a fan companion mod for just about anything.
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Dec 18, 2012 20:40
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Reveilled posted:I haven't relayed it yet like I said so this is based on a somewhat vague memory, but I think it would have been thematically relevant if I had blown up ulysses home and didn't know about it. But I don't think I actually did that, as I recall the divide was my home too, and that felt utterly nonsensical when my character's dialogue was effectively railroaded in the direction of "I don't remember this place".
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Dec 18, 2012 21:03
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Hannibal Smith posted:The Divide wasn't meant to be your home, it was just one of the many places you passed through as a courier. It was Ulysses's home, and the entire reason he has a grudge with you is because you delivered a package and just kept going, not realizing that what you had delivered devastated his home and his life. I could have sworn there was a whole thing about how the courier was one of the town's founding members, which was where the whole "go home courier six" graffiti was coming from in the canyon lonesome road starts from. The graffiti was there before the DLC and the 'twist' was that the graffiti wasn't telling you to go away, it was telling you to keep going, as the lonesome road would take you home.
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Dec 18, 2012 21:16
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