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They made the sv1000 which had about 110hp, proper suspension and brakes and was a great bike. Noone bought it and they stopped making it.
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Jan 18, 2013 21:00
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Where does the gladius fit in? Doesn't it have the same motor as the SV?
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Jan 18, 2013 21:04
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Z3n posted:Eh, I dunno, I don't think it's so much active intent as it is just supply issues. You see similar issues with Honda R/Rs. I'm pretty sure they just have a giant warehouse filled with parts that they've already paid R&D costs on, even if they're poo poo. This is where my had is at on this. Fortunately, it's usually pretty easy and cheap to respring a damping rod fork. My vstar cost $80 in parts and like a half hour of labor and it was like night and day.
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Jan 18, 2013 21:15
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Slavvy posted:They made the sv1000 which had about 110hp, proper suspension and brakes and was a great bike. America is why we can't have nice things 
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Jan 18, 2013 21:21
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The thought processes (or whatever passes for them) of insurance companies never ceases to amaze me. It will cost me £50 more a year to insure a 25hp (new) Royal Enfield than it does to insure my current 95hp Aprilia. Has there been a sudden rash of retro bike thievery (possibly by a gang consisting of Terry-Thomas and George Cole)? Are 80-year-old veterans of the ton-up club still going (and still crashing)? At first I thought it was the difference in value between a 3.5-year-old bike (with a built-in immobiliser) worth about £2.5k and a brand new bike worth £5k but no, asking for a quote for a new Shiver gives exactly the same loving price (and we won't even get into the fact that I'm still paying roughly the same price for insurance as i was when it was new despite 3 years NCB and the bike halving in value since I bought it). Somehow most insulting is that my current insurers won't even quote on the bike, as if they're disappointed in my sudden lack of brand loyalty (I've had insurance with them on three different Aprilias, and they were the only ones who would even quote me back in the mists of time when I first got my RS125). The price isn't enough to put me off but I'd have thought a fringe benefit of changing down so spectacularly would have been a commensurate drop of my insurance rates. (Also just for fun I asked for a quote on an R1 - £100 more than the Enfield. I give up)
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Jan 18, 2013 21:24
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I think part of the reason is that properly sprung suspension can feel a bit stiff. Overly tight suspension can be miserable. Better to make your 1-size-fits-all suspension for 120 lbs instead of 220lbs. Bottoming out is rarer than a stiff bounce off anything on the road, and for the lighter riders it's not even an issue. I have no answer as to why the front and rear are set to totally different riders though. Probably just going for the 'best feel' for the widest audience possible. That doesn't always make the most sense because the average joe has no idea why they like one ride over another.
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Jan 18, 2013 21:26
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goddamnedtwisto posted:The thought processes (or whatever passes for them) of insurance companies never ceases to amaze me. There's pretty much no thought process involved, it's all derived from statistics. This suggests to me that Shiver owners are simply less likely to file a loss or damage claim than Royal Enfield owners. I'd be interested to know how the individual coverages compare between bikes. Does liability cost more for the Aprilia? clutchpuck fucked around with this message at 21:35 on Jan 18, 2013 |
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Jan 18, 2013 21:29
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The insurance company won't give me anything but liability/personal injury insurance because my bike is "too old." Even if I were to go to an appraiser and get an officially registered value, they still won't insure the vehicle itself for anything. I'm fine with having no insurance for crash damage -- I built it up myself, I can fix it again if I need to -- but it kind of blows that if someone rips it off to sell to another hipster I won't be able to get anything back to replace it. At least they'll insure me for liability. Two other companies I talked to couldn't find a '71 CB350 in their computer list and therefore refused to provide me with any coverage whatsoever, despite my coming in with the VIN, all the facts and figures, pictures of the bike, original sales material giving the horsepower and displacement, etc. "You bike is too old so we won't insure you for a crash," basically. 
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Jan 18, 2013 21:30
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My ZX14 insurance is $95/month with comprehensive coverage (but not whatever the coverage is where they pay to fix the bike when you crash it). Kind of sucks but at least it beats when the cheapest quote I got a year ago was like $200/month. Getting older rocks.
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Jan 18, 2013 21:31
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Lots of bikes come with heavy shock springs to help with two up riding. For example the 99-02 R6 came spring for about 150lb and the shock came sprung for like 250lb. Bike makers tend to do some funky stuff. That being said the sportbikes with higher end suspensions/adjustability/etc come chronically undersprung just as much as cheaper bikes. I was under the impression that often times the test bikes given to journalists are actually resprung to fit the journalist's weight but I am not sure where I came up with that idea. I would say that it seems like Italian bikes tend to come sprung for heavier riders than the Japanese bikes. I have no idea where the BMWs fall in that mix.
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Jan 18, 2013 21:35
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epalm posted:Where does the gladius fit in? Doesn't it have the same motor as the SV? Direct successor to the naked SV, although the half-faired model continues to be sold in a few places, here in NZ included. I'd like to ride a gladius to see if they fixed the problems with the SV. I doubt it.
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Jan 18, 2013 21:43
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clutchpuck posted:There's pretty much no thought process involved, it's all derived from statistics. This suggests to me that Shiver owners are simply less likely to file a loss or damage claim than Royal Enfield owners. I suspect it might be the RE is rare enough that they have literally no stats for it and just put it in a generic pile. Third-party-only (presumably the equivalent of liability) insurance costs are about the same between the two bikes, and I guess the majority of that cost is based on my age and experience (especially with an R1 being in the same ballpark for insurance costs too). I also know that a big chunk of my costs come from the fact that I live in the middle of London and park my bike in the open. (this is the bike if anyone's interested:  - as gorgeous as it is I doubt it's going to attract international thieves like my old Mille R did, or sticky-fingered local scrotes like the RS125 did)
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Jan 18, 2013 21:49
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Sagebrush posted:The insurance company won't give me anything but liability/personal injury insurance because my bike is "too old." I've never used one myself, but there are "vintage"-specialty motorcycle insurance companies that will provide coverage. I'd be curious to see how they rate.
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Jan 18, 2013 22:04
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goddamnedtwisto posted:I suspect it might be the RE is rare enough that they have literally no stats for it and just put it in a generic pile. Third-party-only (presumably the equivalent of liability) insurance costs are about the same between the two bikes, and I guess the majority of that cost is based on my age and experience (especially with an R1 being in the same ballpark for insurance costs too). I also know that a big chunk of my costs come from the fact that I live in the middle of London and park my bike in the open. I can guarantee that about 80% of your insurance costs come from living in London and parking in the open. I know mine do. I also know I can save around £200/year on insurance by renting a garage (for ~£130/month).
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Jan 18, 2013 22:22
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Linedance posted:I can guarantee that about 80% of your insurance costs come from living in London and parking in the open. I know mine do. I also know I can save around £200/year on insurance by renting a garage (for ~£130/month). Surprisingly my prices only go down by about 10% when I say i put it in a garage (and the one bike I did keep garaged, the Mille, got stolen from it because it's not attached to my house and nobody noticed it going). That didn't even cover a tenth the rent on the garage, so...
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Jan 18, 2013 22:50
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n8r posted:Lots of bikes come with heavy shock springs to help with two up riding. For example the 99-02 R6 came spring for about 150lb and the shock came sprung for like 250lb. Bike makers tend to do some funky stuff. That being said the sportbikes with higher end suspensions/adjustability/etc come chronically undersprung just as much as cheaper bikes. I was under the impression that often times the test bikes given to journalists are actually resprung to fit the journalist's weight but I am not sure where I came up with that idea. I would say that it seems like Italian bikes tend to come sprung for heavier riders than the Japanese bikes. I have no idea where the BMWs fall in that mix. Magazines usually have a suspension guy either in-house or one they use at the track and note down turning up compression, slowing rebound, etc. I can't remember if I've seen magazines change spring rates - I doubt they would for shootouts as they want to keep things stock and directly comparable. In long term tests I'm sure some of the track oriented guys swap out springs / shocks.
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Jan 19, 2013 00:13
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JP Money posted:Magazines usually have a suspension guy either in-house or one they use at the track and note down turning up compression, slowing rebound, etc. I can't remember if I've seen magazines change spring rates - I doubt they would for shootouts as they want to keep things stock and directly comparable. In long term tests I'm sure some of the track oriented guys swap out springs / shocks. I've always kind of laughed at the suspension "suggestions" in magazines, simply because you can't print something that says "Use x lines of preload, y clicks of compression, z clicks of rebound" because preload is first set on weight, and compression and rebound settings are heavily modified by riding style, how you hang off, how you use the brakes and throttle and...how much preload you have. Not to mention if your spring rates are off by any significant amount, it doesn't matter how much or how little preload you use, it's still going to be wrong as poo poo.
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Jan 19, 2013 00:36
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I agree with you on the relativity of it all but sometimes they'll at least list off the riders weight / stats so you can get a picture of "OK, the 185 pound test rider needed 3 clicks more compression, the 175 needed 2, etc." I think you can get a good ballpark at least based off those stats. Most mags (at least for new sportbikes) will play with the clickers a little and declare them fine. It's awesome how good suspensions are nowadays (even moreso in motocross).
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Jan 19, 2013 00:42
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Couldn't you just read the owners' manual for the bike and dial it in for your weight and purpose instead of resorting to some occult interpretation of relative weights set up for some other random rider who isn't you? At least that's what I'd do.
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Jan 19, 2013 00:48
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clutchpuck posted:Couldn't you just read the owners' manual for the bike and dial it in for your weight and purpose instead of resorting to some occult interpretation of relative weights set up for some other random rider who isn't you? At least that's what I'd do. Personally I don't buy every single bike I read about in a magazine, I guess I was more speaking to getting a general feel for whether a bike has relatively hard / soft suspension. I guess I was looking at the angle of magazine reviews which are usually well before you can actually get a bike. Looking at it from a current-owner point of view of course that'd be a stupid method.
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Jan 19, 2013 01:07
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goddamnedtwisto posted:The thought processes (or whatever passes for them) of insurance companies never ceases to amaze me. Cause Harley owners don't crash, right.
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Jan 19, 2013 02:13
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SimplyCosmic posted:I've never used one myself, but there are "vintage"-specialty motorcycle insurance companies that will provide coverage. I haven't checked it out here in the states yet, but I did look that up when I was living in Canada. It was a great price, something like 195 dollars for the whole year and that included theft and collision and stuff, but you had to get historic plates on the vehicle first. To get historic plates in Ontario, you are not allowed to drive the vehicle anywhere except to a show or in a parade. If a policeman catches you on the road with the plates and you can't prove that you're heading to a show, your vehicle gets impounded. Yep.  So I said gently caress that, registered it as any other bike, and took the rear end-reaming that is regular insurance in Ontario. $1700 a year for a 325cc bike, liability only ($1 million minimum coverage). There was only one company that would insure a 42-year-old bike at all, so I had no possibility of shopping around. Yes, the premiums only go up from there if you own something more powerful. Don't ask me why you have to have a million dollars in injury coverage when the province has free healthcare; that has baffled me for over a decade now. Here in California I pay something like 300 dollars a year.
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Jan 19, 2013 02:57
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I use Geico for my motorcycles and scooter, which includes a 1973 Honda CB350F. Checking through the online quote page, I was able to put a 1971 CB350 through with comprehensive. Couldn't hurt to try them if you're still looking around.
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Jan 19, 2013 06:49
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Slavvy posted:They made the sv1000 which had about 110hp, proper suspension and brakes and was a great bike. The SV1000 was essentially unmarketed. It was very hard to visually distinguish from the 650. It came out just in time to compete in the constrained literbike naked market with the far more interesting Z1000 and FZ1, and the 919 which wasn't really interesting but was a Honda. While those bikes were brand new designs, the SV1000 was too much like a TL1000S with a non-stupid rear suspension to get that new bike sales bounce. Right around 2003 Superbike rules changed to make I4s the new hotness, so V twins were kind of out of fashion anyway, and if you really wanted a V-twin literbike you also had the RC51 and Superhawk from Honda and the Monster (and many others) from Ducati. You could also get Suzuki's own V-Strom 1000 with the same engine in a more practical if less sporty package. You could slap Suzuki accessory side fairings and tank bags on the 1000S, adjust the ergos as needed and make a rather nice if generic-looking VFR-class sport-tourer out of it. But Suzuki never pushed this as an explicit option AFAIK. Suzuki didn't really have anything in that range (the V-strom is marketed more ADV) until the Bandit 1250, which is even blander than the SV. The SV could've been saved if Suzuki really cared, but they didn't, which kind of sucks because the dearth of alternative engine configs from the Jap 4 is boring.
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Jan 19, 2013 07:15
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You also have to remember that a V-twin especially in a 'budget bike' segment is a more expensive engine to manufacture.
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Jan 19, 2013 08:23
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I went to the NY motorcycle show today. Here is a wall of thoughts: - I came in through the rest of the Javits Center instead of the dedicated entrance and inadvertently walked right on in without paying. I didn't even find where they were charging for tickets until I was leaving. I don't know how common this was, but perhaps it explains the next point. - An awful lot of people were there with essentially zero knowledge of the bikes they were looking at. As an internet dork this shocks me. I was hanging around the Triumph section and mentioned to some Harley guys looking at the S3 that I owned one. One of them asked, "Why'd you pick it instead of the Buell?" and my reply of "Well, they don't make Buells anymore" had him flummoxed. - The Honda CB1100 is sexy. Real sexy. Also felt really light. The only new-for-2013 bike that really turned me on. I'm afraid it's going to be a sales flop because of the price, but it's a drat nice bike for a retro or UJM. - The stock DRZ400SM seat feels like sitting on a 2x4. The Husqvarna SM seat is nicer. I want an SM now. - The Suzuki, Victory and Indian cruisers are really generic, the Hondas are outright stupid looking. I outright asked one of the Suzuki guys why I would pick a Suz cruiser over a competitor and he had no real answer. Star had some nice looking bikes, some nice looking accessory setups and some nice 3rd-party customized jobs. I think they were the only cruiser customs on the dealer pads that went beyond paintwork. I was dismayed at how many of the Triumph cruisers were set up to look as Harley-looking as possible. - When compared side by side with the Japs and particularly BMW, Harley has some seriously chintzy switchgear, particularly on their priciest bikes. I was kind of surprised to notice this since I thought better switchgear (as part of better contact surfaces overall) was supposed to be a H-D selling point. - A lot of the bikes seemed much taller than I expected. This was compounded by putting them on centerstands. I kicked a lot of side-mounted luggage today. - The BMW R1200RT was the comfiest bike there hands down, but it's also some retarded $20k+ price when optioned up. Disclaimer, I didn't sit on the new Goldwing. - I forget who said the new Ninja was the best looking supersport now by a country mile but they were spot on. - Kawi had a 'girl rider' section and whether you think it's cool or the height of cisgender misogyny they did seem to have a higher proportion of women trying out the bikes as non-pillions. See next point. - Motorcycle riders are terrible horrible people. The place was packed with middle-aged accountants with leather vests proclaiming their 'club' (often just HOG or BMW MOA) membership. A lot of people recommending to new riders to get the hugest cruiser they could, with the widest possible rear tire. I overheard many, many comments of "Aw, that's a girl's bike" or similar. With the exception of Kawi there didn't seem to be any girls at the brand booths except as eye candy, and some running around with clipboards trying to get contact info. It was a bike show so like a car show people were slamming things around, kicking the bikes, bouncing up and down, just generally being uncourteous and in the way etc. There was a Can-Am booth (at a motorcycle show) and people actually looked at them. - Ducati was the only brand that dressed up women as pit/umbrella girls, but they were pretty rough looking. (The best looking booth girls were inexplicably in the Progressive stand.) Along the same lines I sat on a Diavel and I don't get the hype, the riding position seemed far too aggressive for the bike style. - The somewhat unexpected brand represented were Zero and Indian. Didn't see Hyosung or any other Chinese brands. No Vespa, Buddy, Kymco or other scooter-only manufacturers. MV Augusta had three bikes I think behind ropes. If there was a Royal Enfield or Aprilia booth, I missed it. - You could try on and buy Shoei, Arai, Nolan and HJC helmets (and some no-names) but not AGV, Suomy, or Shark. Bell had their own big stand with one of their artists painting custom helmets. They didn't have that goofy brainbucket+face shield thing, and the guy laughed when I asked about it, I think they think it's pretty goofy too. - I kinda expected more name-brand gear sales (there was a lot of generic crap). There was a Spidi booth and a Sidi booth, I wanted to try on a pair of Sidis to verify my size but it was in a high-traffic area with no seats, so I passed.T here was no Teiz booth but many, many booths offered leather vests and chaps. - If you go, and you go to the Twisted Throttle section, don't be a dick and test out the HID lighting sets. I was chatting with my buddy who works for TT and every 30 seconds or so some rear end would flashblind me.
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Jan 19, 2013 09:30
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SimplyCosmic posted:I use Geico for my motorcycles and scooter, which includes a 1973 Honda CB350F. Checking through the online quote page, I was able to put a 1971 CB350 through with comprehensive. Couldn't hurt to try them if you're still looking around. On this note I use Markel which used to go by bikeline. They are a motorcycle/atv/boat specific insurance company that offer great coverage at really competitive rates. I've never had a claim but I'm pretty sure a few goons have posted that after a wreck they were really great to deal with and covered the bike plus helmet, jacket and any gear that got rashed because they understand that it's single use and part of riding a bike. They also discount your deductible by 25% every year you are accident free.
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Jan 19, 2013 09:44
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I used Markel Bikeline when I got my first bike because they offered the best rate to a young single male with no motorcycle endorsement or riding experience buying a new literbike on credit. $1200 bucks that first year once I had taken the MSF and gotten the endorsement. Went down slightly the next year. The third year they ratcheted it up to $3k because my Z1000 had been reclassified from sportbike to supersport bike or some similar nonsense. Switched to Geico and never looked back. I never made a claim but other than the attempted rate fuckery they seemed like nice enough chaps; their internet portal was rather bare-bones but that was 6 years ago so I'm sure it's been addressed.
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Jan 19, 2013 10:01
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Slavvy posted:I'd like to ride a gladius to see if they fixed the problems with the SV. I doubt it. I have ridden the loaner Gladius from a workshop I use. I don't actually remember about it much beyond it felt like an anaemic SV. It did the job, but strictly speaking so did the jumping castles you could borrow (GS500s).
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Jan 19, 2013 13:43
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Snowdens Secret posted:The place was packed with middle-aged accountants with leather vests proclaiming their 'club' (often just HOG or BMW MOA) membership.
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Jan 19, 2013 14:41
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Snowdens Secret posted:
Welcome to the US. Bike = Harley quote:
Yep. That bike for 11k out the door is going to be a hard sell, compared to its main competitor the Bonneville at 8k. I'd like to see them do a factory "cafe" version ala the Thruxton, that might move some units. quote:- The Suzuki, Victory and Indian cruisers are really generic, the Hondas are outright stupid looking. I outright asked one of the Suzuki guys why I would pick a Suz cruiser over a competitor and he had no real answer. Star had some nice looking bikes, some nice looking accessory setups and some nice 3rd-party customized jobs. I think they were the only cruiser customs on the dealer pads that went beyond paintwork. I was dismayed at how many of the Triumph cruisers were set up to look as Harley-looking as possible. The top of the line Suzuki cruiser is 14k, that's below the starting point of any of the "real" HD cruisers out there. That's basically their main selling point. Looking at sales numbers, in 2010 HD reported the average age of their buyers for a new bike is 59. Yea, 60 years old. Other marques aren't far off, mostly late 40's to early 50's. Kids aren't buying bikes, old people are. Old people want big cruisers. Which brings me to.. quote:- Motorcycle riders are terrible horrible people. The place was packed with middle-aged accountants with leather vests proclaiming their 'club' (often just HOG or BMW MOA) membership. A lot of people recommending to new riders to get the hugest cruiser they could, with the widest possible rear tire. I overheard many, many comments of "Aw, that's a girl's bike" or similar. With the exception of Kawi there didn't seem to be any girls at the brand booths except as eye candy, and some running around with clipboards trying to get contact info. It was a bike show so like a car show people were slamming things around, kicking the bikes, bouncing up and down, just generally being uncourteous and in the way etc. There was a Can-Am booth (at a motorcycle show) and people actually looked at them. They asked one of the GM marketing guys this week about how best to target "millenials" and all the teens-twentysomethings now for their new cars. His answer? "Make it a cell phone". And hey, rag on Can Am all you want, but they have a niche and they fill it well. If I'm in my late 60's, early 70's with a bad hip, poo poo knees, bad back, etc and I want a retirement cruiser, man that thing fits the bill. Rev. Dr. Moses P. Lester posted:You stop right there. BMW owners do not wear leather vests. For real. It's 2XL Bright yellow high viz aerostitches with an AARP badge, get it right!
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Jan 19, 2013 15:36
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Snowdens Secret posted:- I forget who said the new Ninja was the best looking supersport now by a country mile but they were spot on.
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Jan 19, 2013 15:49
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ThatCguy posted:Looking at sales numbers, in 2010 HD reported the average age of their buyers for a new bike is 59. Yea, 60 years old. Other marques aren't far off, mostly late 40's to early 50's. Kids aren't buying bikes, old people are. Old people want big cruisers.
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Jan 19, 2013 17:21
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Collateral Damage posted:Correction: Kids aren't buying new bikes. Young people buy used bikes. Which means gently caress-all to bike companies.
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Jan 19, 2013 17:41
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ThatCguy posted:Which means gently caress-all to bike companies. Not if any of them would wake up and make entry-level priced starters. Bikes aren't only for the bourgeois, us ramen eaters want them too.
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Jan 19, 2013 17:52
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The Ninja 250 is up to like 5k new isn't it? Even the cheaper brands like Hyosung start at about 4k after fees and taxes for the smaller models. I can't imagine it's feasible to make them any cheaper.
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Jan 19, 2013 18:24
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46 degrees here. Took the Ninja out of storage for a 15 mile ride. I love that frenetic, four-fingered mechanical fist being between my legs. I love how it makes my heart rate soar as I reach into the upper limits of the RPM range and cars become blurry streaks whipping past me, and how I don't really realize it until I've come to a stop and feel my heart beating furiously.
the walkin dude fucked around with this message at 21:04 on Jan 19, 2013 |
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Jan 19, 2013 21:00
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It warmed up today in SoCAL so I'm planning on taking a mid-day ride through canyon country. I put new tires on it recently and I'm pretty psyched about trying them out. These are my first set of new tires EVER on a motorbike and the ones on the 250 before were the OEMs. NOTE that I did some slaloms in a parking lot for a good 15 minutes after mounting the tires (on a ~20 mile in-town ride). I'm also pretty dang slow in the corners, so I'm not too worried about the new tires killing me. Let me know if I'm wrong and I should be more worried.
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Jan 19, 2013 21:19
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the walkin dude posted:46 degrees here. Took the Ninja out of storage for a 15 mile ride. I love that frenetic, four-fingered mechanical fist being between my legs. I love how it makes my heart rate soar as I reach into the upper limits of the RPM range and cars become blurry streaks whipping past me, and how I don't really realize it until I've come to a stop and feel my heart beating furiously. Amen. 48 today and a 25 mile ride turned into 120. 35 mph crosswinds kind of suck, but drat it's nice for the middle of January.
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Jan 19, 2013 22:22
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-16C (3F) and snowing here today, and the forecast calls for -10C or lower all next week. No riding here unless you have studded tires.
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Jan 19, 2013 22:34
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