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I was under the impression that Crisis Core was permitted, but nothing else.
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Jan 20, 2013 17:49
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CottonWolf posted:Oh, really? It's more of a time management sim then? That could be interesting, almost Persona-esque. I'm sure there's a better analogy, but I can't think of it. The first Pikmin?
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Jan 20, 2013 17:53
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Artix74 posted:I was under the impression that Crisis Core was permitted, but nothing else. Crisis Core wasn't instantly vaporized by hate, unlike the rest of the EU material, but over time it sank in just how godawful Genesis was and now it's pretty much in the heap with the others.
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Jan 20, 2013 17:57
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Mazed posted:It is completely acceptable...no, wholeheartedly recommended to base any and all impressions of Final Fantasy VII's story on the contents of the three discs it shipped on. So what you're saying is that everyone did die in the end thanks to the Lifestream. I'm okay with that.
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Jan 20, 2013 18:01
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I'm thinking about finally giving final fantasy iv a try. I'm just wondering what version would be the best to get iPhone/PS3/SNES copy? Should I bother with the iPhone version? Which one is the best?
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Jan 20, 2013 18:04
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As awful as Genesis is Crisis Core is still a pretty good game and gives a lot to Zack as a character when before he was just the dude that died trying to save Cloud. Hell, Sephiroth was pretty cool in the game too, but that's before he went balls to the walls nuts. I gotta admit though it's pretty funny how easily convinced by Genesis he is in Nibel Reactor. It's like the only part of the FF7 EU that's actually really good.
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Jan 20, 2013 18:05
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By all reports, the PSP version of FFIV (which I think is the same as the iPhone one?) was pretty good altogether. No frills other than the inclusion of After Years and a small bridging episode (both of which are far from mandatory playing) and higher-rez sprite graphics.Krad posted:So what you're saying is that everyone did die in the end thanks to the Lifestream. I'm okay with that. Except Red XIII, who went on to have many babies. 
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Jan 20, 2013 18:08
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Krad posted:So what you're saying is that everyone did die in the end thanks to the Lifestream. I'm okay with that. The actual ending's ambiguous, obviously, but that last-second cut of Aerith's face makes it lean more heavily towards "humanity survived, Midgar was abandoned." Which makes sense, since Midgar was used throughout the game as a symbol of mankind's corruption and overreach of power.
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Jan 20, 2013 18:09
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Mazed posted:the PSP version of FFIV (which I think is the same as the iPhone one?) This is actually wrong, the iOS version is the DS game, which has weird new systems and is more difficult and generally feels like it was designed for existing FF4 fans. I'd recommend either the PSP version or, failing that, the SNES/SFAM version; Final Fantasy II for the SNES is still a perfectly good game, while there are Final Fantasy IV SFAM translation patches too if you want to play it with the full host of mechanical features as intended. Oxxidation posted:The actual ending's ambiguous, obviously, but that last-second cut of Aerith's face makes it lean more heavily towards "humanity survived, Midgar was abandoned." Which makes sense, since Midgar was used throughout the game as a symbol of mankind's corruption and overreach of power. I definitely agree with this. If Aeris had survived and Holy had been cast, but she hadn't communed with the Lifestream, mankind would've been hosed. Her death saved everybody. Midgar's overgrowth was to show that people learned to live with the planet again, and abandoned mako reactors. Baku fucked around with this message at 18:15 on Jan 20, 2013 |
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Jan 20, 2013 18:11
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THE AWESOME GHOST posted:-There is an optional cutscene that shows how Vincent turned into a weird monster thing. Hojo experimented on him and did it, basically. Vincent loved a woman called Lucretia but she married Professor Hojo and had his kid. Hojo decided to experiment on his kid by injecting his pregnant wife with Jenova cells. Sephiroth is the son of the woman Vincent loved and Hojo. It's a pretty big deal especially because Sephiroth goes insane and kills everyone because he thinks he is an alien!! My favorite is when angry nerds whine about how the plot in FF13 prevented them from enjoying the game because of their lofty expectations for anime stories and then you ask then what a good FF plot is and they say FF7.
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Jan 20, 2013 18:44
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Mazed posted:It is completely acceptable...no, wholeheartedly recommended to base any and all impressions of Final Fantasy VII's story on the contents of the three discs it shipped on. So you're telling me that Hojo didn't upload himself to the internet just before he died? (Dirge spoilers, not that anyone should care)
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Jan 20, 2013 18:58
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That loving Sned posted:So you're telling me that Hojo didn't upload himself to the internet just before he died? (Dirge spoilers, not that anyone should care) The man who controls the e-mail controls information
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Jan 20, 2013 19:02
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Don't forget the fast forward/auto attack feature for battles in the FFIV PSP version. It was very handy when running around with weaker enemies. If FFV got the same sprite/music/mechanic treatment it would be a day 1 purchase.
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Jan 20, 2013 19:21
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Fight Club Sandwich posted:My favorite is when angry nerds whine about how the plot in FF13 prevented them from enjoying the game because of their lofty expectations for anime stories and then you ask then what a good FF plot is and they say FF7. FFVII's plot was fun in the same way that a thriller novel is fun. It's certainly not high literature or anything, but it keeps you entertained with all its ridiculous twists. Aerith gets stabbed! Cloud's personality is actually that of his dead best friend! The Planet has activated massive magical robots as a self defence mechanism! Everyone is Jenova's puppet! ...and so on. That's kind of all I really expect from Final Fantasy plotting. Just out of interest, which do you think has the best plot? You sound like you have Opinions.
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Jan 20, 2013 19:47
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You literally just made me realize FFVII is essentially a Days Of Our Lives game :o.
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Jan 20, 2013 23:03
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I thought Cloud was easily the most fascinating main character ever in the series. He's a total subversion of what you expect in a JRPG or story like this. So you got this super-badass who was part of the super-badass group in the military. He's now a cold mercenary. Only you then learn his nemesis, who's even more badass, is still alive. Only then you learn our awesome hero was a total dork and failed to get into the super-badass group. His "nemesis" regarded him as a joke of no real worth or value. And that's when Cloud really shows what a hero he is. Even as a grunt with no special powers, he managed to overpower Sephiroth and throw him into the Mako reactor. (one of the best scenes in the game) Mazed posted:It is completely acceptable...no, wholeheartedly recommended to base any and all impressions of Final Fantasy VII's story on the contents of the three discs it shipped on. Advent Children was nice to look at and listen to until some dumb Square side material says Cloud and Sephiroth were supposed to have been fighting for hours at the end. I mean, what the gently caress. It's the most juvenile and pointless thing. I just listen to the music nowadays.
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Jan 20, 2013 23:57
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Oxxidation posted:Crisis Core wasn't instantly vaporized by hate, unlike the rest of the EU material, but over time it sank in just how godawful Genesis was and now it's pretty much in the heap with the others. Eh, as far as FF villains go, Genesis isn't good, but aside from the Gackt factor he doesn't strike me as hugely egregious either. He's just sort of there and generic aside from his play spouting. I'd rather put up with him than some of the other series villains. He's also largely secondary and mostly provides a guy to punch who isn't Sephiroth.
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Jan 21, 2013 00:03
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I don't see how Gackt is the worst thing about Genesis. In fact, I only watch CC in Japanese because his voice is pretty good. (really don't like his English voice) I am also a fan of Malice Mizer though.
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Jan 21, 2013 00:05
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NikkolasKing posted:I don't see how Gackt is the worst thing about Genesis. In fact, I only watch CC in Japanese because his voice is pretty good. (really don't like his English voice) Gackt is the worst thing in that he is really out of place. It's an actual guy playing himself in a thinly-veiled reference to himself. It's like Samuel L. Jackson playing Nick Fury (who was based on Samuel L. Jackson) except more out of place.
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Jan 21, 2013 00:09
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ImpAtom posted:Eh, as far as FF villains go, Genesis isn't good, but aside from the Gackt factor he doesn't strike me as hugely egregious either. He's just sort of there and generic aside from his play spouting. I'd rather put up with him than some of the other series villains. He's also largely secondary and mostly provides a guy to punch who isn't Sephiroth. He devours the entire plot of the game. He's present in every major scene, including ones which were pivotal to the plot of FF7, exploring his backstory takes up a huge chunk of the original plot, he's the main antagonist, primary rival, and over half of the loving base enemy roster because of all his cloning. And he's so uninteresting and prissy that he refuses to engage your attention for a moment of it. Even if you count Dirge of Cereberus, Genesis might be the worst character and the worst idea Square's ever created.
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Jan 21, 2013 00:10
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Oxxidation posted:Even if you count Dirge of Cereberus, Genesis might be the worst character and the worst idea Square's ever created. Not even in the top 10. Again, he's not good, but I fail to see what is so exceptionally bad about him aside from the fact that he's boring and pretty stupid. Compared to poo poo like The Third Birthday or Star Ocean 4, I barely blink at that.
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Jan 21, 2013 00:12
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ImpAtom posted:Not even in the top 10. Again, he's not good, but I fail to see what is so exceptionally bad about him aside from the fact that he's boring and pretty stupid. Compared to poo poo like The Third Birthday or Star Ocean 4, I barely blink at that. I forgot 3rd Birthday. I'm not sure why you remember 3rd Birthday. There's probably some medication for that. SO4 isn't in Square's wheelhouse, though. Also, you call Genesis "largely secondary," I rattle off a number of ways in which he's the most prominent character in CC, and you just kind of skate over it, so maybe your memories of the game are a little warped!
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Jan 21, 2013 00:15
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Oxxidation posted:I forgot 3rd Birthday. I'm not sure why you remember 3rd Birthday. There's probably some medication for that. Star Ocean is a S-E franchise and published by them. Tri-Ace develops it but it's a S-E franchise. (It began as an Enix franchise but whatever, it's S-E now.) Oxxidation posted:Also, you call Genesis "largely secondary," I rattle off a number of ways in which he's the most prominent character in CC, and you just kind of skate over it, so maybe your memories of the game are a little warped! Because he is largely secondary. He is around, but his primarily purpose is to highlight other characters. He exists to give Sephiroth and Angeal something to angst over and someone for Zack to bounce off of that isn't either of those characters. His personality is 'Sephiroth who spouts poetry" and that's about it. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 00:18 on Jan 21, 2013 |
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Jan 21, 2013 00:16
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ImpAtom posted:Because he is largely secondary. He is around, but his primarily purpose is to highlight other characters. He exists to give Sephiroth and Angeal something to angst over and someone for Zack to bounce off of that isn't either of those characters. Literally being written in as the driving force for one of the base material's most prominent scenes isn't a "highlight." Genesis is a fanfiction insert who was shoehorned into pre-existing material because Gackt won a game of wits with a genie or something. S-E's made bad decisions, but they rarely stoop that low.
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Jan 21, 2013 00:19
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Oxxidation posted:Literally being written in as the driving force for one of the base material's most prominent scenes isn't a "highlight." Genesis is a fanfiction insert who was shoehorned into pre-existing material because Gackt won a game of wits with a genie or something. S-E's made bad decisions, but they rarely stoop that low. No, S-E makes significantly worse decisions. What this comes across as is "Gackt is the worst thing ever" as opposed to the character actually doing anything egregiously stupid. It's "fanfiction" and "self-insertion" and whatever and thus it must be worse than the actually horribly offensively stupid characters they've included elsewhere. Even if you wanted to go "stupid fanfiction villain" then The After Years The Creator would be far worse for destroying the worlds of Final Fantasy 1-6 (minus 4) offscreen and completely retconning the entire setting. Edit: Also, christ, The entire Kingdom Hearts plot. Give me loving Gackt any day of the week over Ansemxahnorth or whatever the hell they're up to now. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 00:37 on Jan 21, 2013 |
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Jan 21, 2013 00:25
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You guys keep forgetting one thing. You get to punch Gackt in the face. Repeatedly. That alone makes Genesis' inclusion worthwhile.
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Jan 21, 2013 00:36
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ImpAtom posted:Edit: The Kingdom Hearts plot is loving art and don't you dare suggest otherwise. Pollock was renowned for bold, seemingly random splashes of paint across the canvas. KH is the same way, only the paint is time travel and strongly implied homosexuality.
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Jan 21, 2013 00:41
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ImpAtom posted:Even if you wanted to go "stupid fanfiction villain" then The After Years The Creator would be far worse for destroying the worlds of Final Fantasy 1-6 (minus 4) offscreen and completely retconning the entire setting. Hahaha, holy poo poo. Did After Years seriously do this? This is just telling me more and more that I need to finish FFIVCC because that sounds so bad I need to see it.
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Jan 21, 2013 00:43
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Sex_Ferguson posted:Hahaha, holy poo poo. Did After Years seriously do this? This is just telling me more and more that I need to finish FFIVCC because that sounds so bad I need to see it. The Creator's thing is that it seeded Crystals to planets to do something something bullshit evolution. When you finally go to fight it you discover the remanents of previous worlds it seeded, considered failures, harvested and destroyed. These take the form of bosses from FF1 to FFVI. They're pretty explicitly those exact characters too. (Gilgamesh references Bartz and I believe Ultros makes direct references too.) So, yep. FFVI got blown up by some random fuckhead.
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Jan 21, 2013 00:47
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ImpAtom posted:Even if you wanted to go "stupid fanfiction villain" then The After Years The Creator would be far worse for destroying the worlds of Final Fantasy 1-6 (minus 4) offscreen and completely retconning the entire setting. Do 1-6 even exist in the same universe? Either way, that's all the impetus I need to never play The After Years.
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Jan 21, 2013 00:48
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Oh come on, it's pretty clearly just a random nod. It's not like FF6 is actually canonically destroyed. It's not like the Creator appeared out of your TV and destroyed your SNES and your copy of the game.
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Jan 21, 2013 00:48
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I like 12 but the middle act is badly paced. It's a walking tour of the world segmented into storyline errands, a lot of which feel unimportant. It's organized like Final Fantasy Tactics, kind of, but each battle in that game was half-map and half-event, if that makes sense. Each area in 12 is like 90% space to explore and incidental things to do, 5% moving the narrative forward, and 5% simple but tedious puzzle. Better gear helps, but a better understanding of what causes the numbers you're seeing to happen will help too. Weapons and elemental attributes and some other poo poo i can't remember synergize in ways that the game doesn't make a point to explain (like certain elemental equipment increases the power of corresponding spells? maybe?) but that matter a lot.
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Jan 21, 2013 00:53
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NikkolasKing posted:His "nemesis" regarded him as a joke of no real worth or value. I like how this is a generally common trope in these kinds of dramas, and especially in anime, except in the case of FFVII it's actually true for Cloud's entire pre-game backstory.
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Jan 21, 2013 01:10
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I never played CC but I saw "Gackt" and all I can remember now is his appearance in All Riders vs. Dai-Shocker as a really cheesy version of Riderman from Decade's world and how that movie was a complete clusterfuck and argh. It seems like Gackt kind of screws up all the things he appears in. NikkolasKing posted:Even as a grunt with no special powers, he managed to overpower Sephiroth and throw him into the Mako reactor. (one of the best scenes in the game) Okay I'm going to admit I'm kind of dumb and this is the only plot point I never really fully understood. Maybe it's because of the limitations of the character models, but I didn't get that scene. Sephiroth stabs Cloud, and Cloud...does something? And then Sephiroth waggles his sword which I would assume should completely shred Cloud's insides (since the sword is completely through him) but somehow he's fine and picks up Sephiroth and throws him over the side? And I don't think he'd been experimented on and injected with Jenova cells yet so that can't really be it either. I dunno, I never really got what happened there.
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Jan 21, 2013 01:13
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Twelve by Pies posted:Okay I'm going to admit I'm kind of dumb and this is the only plot point I never really fully understood. Maybe it's because of the limitations of the character models, but I didn't get that scene. Sephiroth stabs Cloud, and Cloud...does something? And then Sephiroth waggles his sword which I would assume should completely shred Cloud's insides (since the sword is completely through him) but somehow he's fine and picks up Sephiroth and throws him over the side? And I don't think he'd been experimented on and injected with Jenova cells yet so that can't really be it either. Sephiroth stabbed Cloud through the stomach and Cloud grabbed the sword while it was stabbed through him, and then lifted Sephiroth up by the sword and slammed him into a wall. The 'wiggling' is Sephiroth trying to pull it free/move it and being unable to because Cloud has a death grip on it. He's not actually fine, he gets impaled and would probably have died if Hojo didn't find him and stick him in a bacta tank.
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Jan 21, 2013 01:18
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The plot of FF4: The After Years was pretty dumb but I still thought the game was pretty fun. The characters all have set roles like in FF4 but you have a lot more of them to choose from and you can make your party whatever you want it to be. You don't even have to use Cecil or Ceodore if you don't want to, and that's really cool to me. It was pretty lazy to reuse most of FF4 instead of doing new maps, though. I have a hard time recommending it to people unless you really liked FF4, but I don't regret playing it, although it's not something I'd replay incredibly often.
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Jan 21, 2013 01:19
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glod posted:The plot of FF4: The After Years was pretty dumb but I still thought the game was pretty fun. The characters all have set roles like in FF4 but you have a lot more of them to choose from and you can make your party whatever you want it to be. You don't even have to use Cecil or Ceodore if you don't want to, and that's really cool to me. Pretty much this. If you liked the gameplay of FF4, I'd definitely recommend it just because they really flesh out the battle system. The end game is literally a massive boss rush, and being able to pick your team at will and restock items constantly helps push the game along. Of course, before then you have to do a bunch of scenarios as set parties, but those are usually pretty decent. The Challenge Dungeons are worth skipping, though, as you don't really need most of it and most of the challenge dungeons are a chore to do anyway. Likewise, if you really enjoyed the story of FF4, you already know most of what happens in The After Years because they literally replay two-thirds of every important scene in the game. Hell, there's literally a section where they play five or six flashbacks from FF4 in a row. And of course there's the above with the whole "the first six FF games are all in the same universe and the crystals are recording mechanisms" nonsense. To be fair, the game really improves a few characters, and some of the new characters are actually pretty cool. It's fun, but god drat is that plot nonsense. I could go on about how bland the villains are, or how loving stupid the good guys are, or how the gently caress does a god drat sailing vessel run out of fuel.
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Jan 21, 2013 01:27
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Well...IV's heroes were kinda dumb and the villains were pretty bland. Maybe they were just trying to channel the spirit of 1994 or whatever.
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Jan 21, 2013 01:56
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ImpAtom posted:The Creator's thing is that it seeded Crystals to planets to do something something bullshit evolution. When you finally go to fight it you discover the remanents of previous worlds it seeded, considered failures, harvested and destroyed. These take the form of bosses from FF1 to FFVI. They're pretty explicitly those exact characters too. (Gilgamesh references Bartz and I believe Ultros makes direct references too.) There aren't even crystals in FF6, but that's pretty minor compared to the rest of TAY's unfiltered insanity. 
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Jan 21, 2013 02:47
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Sex_Ferguson posted:Hahaha, holy poo poo. Did After Years seriously do this? This is just telling me more and more that I need to finish FFIVCC because that sounds so bad I need to see it. This acronym reminded me of Crystal Chronicles. CC was a good game. Unfortunate about the stupid gimmick needed for multiplayer, because it was seriously a blast.
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