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AxeManiac posted:Yeah, the worst I got was some dudes vocally being babies over people not knowing what to do on the newbie friendly servers. Otherwise the community is pretty good, not many people plunk down money to bother people now, well, aside from the forums. Most griefers stick to free to play. Yeah, I'm a new player and still trying to get the hang of how everything works and almost every person I have come across in this game has been helpful and exceedingly patient. Or, at the very least, calm and not upset if I am say wacking a sentry with an axe in my first game because I thought that is how you build things in online shooters. The big green tag and splitting off servers for super serious people really seems like a good design decision.
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Feb 4, 2013 14:55
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I had a few games where the same player would always rush for comm on either aliens or marine, doing stuff like building 2 obs or making a couple of whips at the hive before any rt's and then keep complaining he was new (it was something like 'IM NEW OK. THIS GAME IS STUPID.')
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Feb 4, 2013 16:04
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AxeManiac posted:Really? I'm going to have to look up what the right time is then, because that stomp always wrecks me. The stomp isn't instant. It's actually a projectile that travels along the ground. I was under the impression that it was unavoidable without jetpacks or being on a different elevation, though. Also, if you are a bad skulk, then you can still help out your team by grouping up with 3 or more skulks and zerging a pack of marines or a base. It's usually more helpful than newbie gorges that wall off a strategically useless area and get themselves killed when they don't know when to retreat. Don't try to be a rambo skulk either because you'll lose almost every 1v1 until you get better.
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Feb 4, 2013 19:31
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You have to jump within a fraction of a second of the stomp animation starting to dodge it. Nearly impossible to pull off in a real game environment though. If the Onos has adrenaline you might as well not even bother.
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Feb 4, 2013 19:39
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Yeah I don't think it's meant as a viable strategy to killing an onos, just a cool little trick you can do. I've jumped over a few stomps, but it usually just leads to you dying anyway 
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Feb 4, 2013 19:44
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I really hate bringing up Tremulous constantly but I feel the endgame in that game was done with slightly more balance. The end game in this seems to be vastly in favor of the aliens. Even if Aliens lose a fat stack of Onos, it's stuff like gorge bombs that do severe damage for little res. It's actually dangerous for Marines to grab Exos where jetpacks are superior in every way and with how expensive Marine upgrades are, it's a mental trap for them to push. Look how amazing mines are and sadly no one ever gets them aside from a few thanks to that fat cost. In Tremulous, Tyrants, late game units, were basically Onos but with a charge ability. Hilariously fast. Marines on the other hand had the Lucifer Cannon, a slow moving 'Megaman' blast which could kill a Tyrant in two charge attacks. Marines also had the armor class and jetpack class. Both were pretty awesome for different reasons. There were also about twice as many weapons/alien classes for each side as well as three times as much base building. Each good in their own ways. Though one bad thing with 'balance' is that games sometimes never really ends which were extremely common in Tremulous. There were tons of phases of advantage towards each side but the end game usually a stalemate. Killing bases were hard as hell. Often players had to exploit via super fast bunny hopping for a base wipe. One thing that was hilarious yet dangerous as hell was Lucifer hopping similar to rocket jumping except you end up half dead while going Mach 2. I'd love it if both sides had power phases where one side has a clear advantage until the next evolution which NS already has to some degree. One thing about NS that kind of sucks right now is that it's really easy to know when one side will lose especially with the Marines. Tremulous had that to a certain degree but if one side could survive until their next evolution then the sides turn pretty quick. Maybe it's just me remembering a fun game while enjoying another great one.
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Feb 4, 2013 20:23
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I'm still waiting for the "Content" patch that they're throwing out in February. From console errors when loading up a map, it looks like babblers and railguns and nydus-tunnels are being put in. If anything is a little to silly in mid-late game, it's how quickly an entire base can go down from two gorges (or even just a gorge and a skulk) working together. The warnings are not altogether clear (especially if your base has been minorly harassed for the whole game) and you can end up going from a slow but inexorable push to everything going to hell in a real hurry.
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Feb 4, 2013 20:34
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Buckwheat Sings posted:Look how amazing mines are and sadly no one ever gets them aside from a few thanks to that fat cost. I like using mines, but it seems everyone just stands back and spits at them to blow them up or a fade runs in explodes them and blinks back to heal and come back 5 seconds later.
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Feb 4, 2013 20:54
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Mines are most effective in the early game, before carapace enters the mix. Placing them in spots where aliens will run right into their kill zone without seeing them basically guarantees a kill. Late game they can still be useful, but you have to spam a lot more of them.. they're useful for softening up fades and lerks but it requires marines to be in the area shooting at them. Another popular tactic is to place them around phase gates as those are usually an alien's first target when launching a push. Problem is most commanders treat them like a late game upgrade so you never really get the opportunity to see how fun they are.
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Feb 4, 2013 21:03
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chocolateTHUNDER posted:Yeah I don't think it's meant as a viable strategy to killing an onos, just a cool little trick you can do. I've jumped over a few stomps, but it usually just leads to you dying anyway 
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Feb 4, 2013 21:16
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In early NS1 patches mines didn't occupy physical space and there was a strategy of stacking 2 packs of them on top of eachother, blocking them with your body, then baiting an onos into blowing themselves up by eating you. Once they fixed this and made mines proper entities, they introduced a new phenomenon -- mine ladders! You place them on the wall and then jump up them. Are there any good places in NS2 to build a mine ladder?
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Feb 4, 2013 21:21
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ShadowHawk posted:In early NS1 patches mines didn't occupy physical space and there was a strategy of stacking 2 packs of them on top of eachother, blocking them with your body, then baiting an onos into blowing themselves up by eating you. I haven't noticed any good places for mine ladders. I think part of it is because of the weird way physics sometimes work in NS2: Anything that isn't apparently a 90degree angle you can climb right up. The back wall in elevator transfer on Tram is a good example of this. You can kinda just walk right up to the top of it as a marine. It's pretty loving weird and cheesy IMO.
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Feb 4, 2013 21:23
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Mines should have a late game upgrade that makes them $5 for a 3 pack.
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Feb 4, 2013 21:46
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chocolateTHUNDER posted:I haven't noticed any good places for mine ladders. I think part of it is because of the weird way physics sometimes work in NS2: Anything that isn't apparently a 90degree angle you can climb right up. The back wall in elevator transfer on Tram is a good example of this. You can kinda just walk right up to the top of it as a marine. It's pretty loving weird and cheesy IMO. With some actual play significance, you can also climb into the vent on veil over by skylights. Just scoot right up the wall panel that's leaning there. 
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Feb 4, 2013 21:49
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Man, if you could make mines 5 res a pack, I would rush that tech every game. That would seriously make mines more cost-efficient than any of the higher weapons for many or most public players. I'm not sure whether it's a sensible idea or not, but it sounds great and is probably worth trying out.
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Feb 4, 2013 21:49
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SanitysEdge posted:Mines should have a late game upgrade that makes them $5 for a 3 pack. I've said it before, but if they were to put digest back in, I'd want the ability to lay mines inside of an onos while he's eating me. When they detonate, the onos "belches" a ball of shrapnel and fire, and then dies. 
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Feb 4, 2013 21:50
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They used to be 5 tres a pack and it was just a liiiiitttle bit op early game (lotta bit).
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Feb 4, 2013 21:52
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Garfu posted:They used to be 5 tres a pack and it was just a liiiiitttle bit op early game (lotta bit). Did they ever try putting a cap on the number of active mines any single marine could have in the game? 5 is probably too cheap, but 15 feels like too much. I'd pay 10 with minimal hesitation even if it meant I could only have 3 active in the world.
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Feb 4, 2013 21:55
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DelphiAegis posted:I'm still waiting for the "Content" patch that they're throwing out in February. From console errors when loading up a map, it looks like babblers and railguns and nydus-tunnels are being put in. I think 2 gorges kill a base a little bit too fast. I actually like how easy it is to win as aliens late game if you know what you are doing. I think what needs to happen is that a single dual-exo should be able to destroy everything in a fully grown alien base in approximately 30 seconds. I am talking about killing a full hive with 5 crags on it, multiple whips, and all the upgrade structures. I don't know how this would work exactly, but that is what exos need to be able to do. Maybe you could do a starship troopers reference and give the exo a single tactical nuke that takes 30 seconds to fire.
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Feb 4, 2013 22:01
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SanitysEdge posted:Mines should have a late game upgrade that makes them $5 for a 3 pack. What about making them a real weapon, like you can place up to 3 at any time. So if you pay 15, you can place three mines, and if they blow up while you are still alive, you can use 3 more maybe on a time limit so you can't infinitely spam them. Make it something you research too. Just seems like a lot of res for 3 things that can be easily defeated.
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Feb 4, 2013 22:06
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xzzy posted:5 is probably too cheap, but 15 feels like too much. I'd pay 10 with minimal hesitation even if it meant I could only have 3 active in the world.
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Feb 4, 2013 22:20
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Garfu posted:They used to be 5 tres a pack and it was just a liiiiitttle bit op early game (lotta bit). That's my whole point of bringing up Tremulous. Trem- Early game Aliens have a decent advantage. Their bites do something like 50 damage while headbites do 100. Humans basically need to turtle up while star players go alien hunting for res. Tier 1 upgrades. Humans now have a great advantage. Helmets reduce instant kill headbites while introducing weapons that easily wipe out aliens. Humans now can dominate the map and attempt to kill the aliens before tier 2. Tier 2 upgrades. Aliens have Dragoons that eat the poo poo out of humans. Humans have some more guns and base defense but nothing crazy. Tier 3 upgrades. Uber units on each side. The point is that I'd like things to be more op during phases. Mines would be nuts but it'd at least force the aliens to rethink their strategies or wait until carapace is upgraded or introduce a new alien evolution/class. Right now Aliens have a clear advantage especially at top tier with, oddly enough, gorge bombs with Onos as distractions. It's like the design philosophies of LOL and DOTA. LOL introduces heroes that have impact but not overpoweringly so. Compare to DOTA where one hero can easily wipe out 5 or intel heroes having huge advantage in early game vs late. Splicer posted:Keep it at 15, but have the upgraded version give you 5 instead of 3. Despite it technically being cheaper per mine than 10 for 3, losing 15 in a chunk is a lot harsher. That'd be awesome. Anything that would improve people getting them because they're easily the best thing Marines have until jetpacks and higher tier weapons. Then again they did buff the shotgun so beats me.
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Feb 4, 2013 22:26
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xzzy posted:With some actual play significance, you can also climb into the vent on veil over by skylights. Just scoot right up the wall panel that's leaning there. Haha yes, I saw someone do this a few months ago and it's been stuck in my head ever since. I routinely use that move to surprise lerks/skulks that think they're safe in the vent 
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Feb 4, 2013 22:37
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xzzy posted:With some actual play significance, you can also climb into the vent on veil over by skylights. Just scoot right up the wall panel that's leaning there. 
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Feb 4, 2013 22:44
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There is a hidden "late game" phase. Marines late game essentially begins when they have 2 tech points. Aliens late game starts when they have 3 hives. Why 3? Because at hive 3 the commander can spend TRES on onos. And considering that aliens control 3 hives, that's a lot of res and a lot of onos. That's why it's so important (but at the same time, very difficult) for marines to hold enough tech points to keep aliens from getting a 3rd hive.
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Feb 5, 2013 00:58
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Buckwheat Sings posted:Though one bad thing with 'balance' is that games sometimes never really ends This right here is why I think NS2 is the best version. Games are a nice 20 to 30 minutes with close games lasting about 40. Games that were balanced to a stalemate were epic fun when I was a teenager who could ignore Real Life(tm) but now I have the attention span of a burnt out 30something and get incredibly bored when the game hits 40 minutes. Sometimes the game doesn't even need to hit that 40 minute mark, you can get the same feeling 15 minutes in when you realize that your team is throwing away a 20 minute win with stupid moves.
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Feb 5, 2013 01:12
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Balanced doesn't have to equal stalemate. You just have to make sure that as the game progresses, the ability for each side to destroy a base grows faster than their ability to defend and rebuild. As long as offence eventually outstrips defence one side is going to end up taking out the other.
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Feb 5, 2013 01:20
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I would like to see mines give a pres rebate when they explode, say 1-3 res. Of course, they'd need some way prevent commanders from using them to convert tres to pres, like maybe Commander-dropped mines behave different. In non-mine related news, there is also a dopefish to be found on docking, in some crates by terminal. you have to view it from above.
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Feb 5, 2013 01:29
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P.S. STILL COMPLETELY DEVOID OF MERIT
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Splicer posted:Balanced doesn't have to equal stalemate. You just have to make sure that as the game progresses, the ability for each side to destroy a base grows faster than their ability to defend and rebuild. As long as offence eventually outstrips defence one side is going to end up taking out the other. That's why I said "Balanced to a stalemate". Aside from a few tweaks here and there, NS2 has some really good balance for not being a huge company with a fleet of testers.
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Feb 5, 2013 01:35
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It really depends on what you mean by balance. If you were trying to balance based solely on winrate, for instance, one possibility would be that marines win 100% of short games, aliens win 100% of long games, and about half the games are long. Probably a more refined version would be both sides winning about as often as eachother for games of certain length (<5 min, <10 min, <15 min, etc). But it's probably ok if those skew a bit (eg aliens win 70% of 5-10 min games but marines win 70% of 10-15 min games and they balance out to 50/50 after that) It all comes down to fun. Super short games where you don't really get to try a strategy or all the units in depth aren't that fun, so early aggression shouldn't be overly rewarding. Super long turtle games aren't that fun when you don't have the tools to knock down the defenses, which explains some of the discussion about super weapons here -- you'll see similar "end game" units in traditional RTSes, and maybe there's a roll for that in NS2 as well. But probably the most anti-fun are "already decided but still going on for another 10 minutes" games, however fortunately the surrender vote seems to have fixed that nicely.
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Feb 5, 2013 01:52
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wolfman101 posted:Maybe you could do a starship troopers reference and give the exo a single tactical nuke I've no idea how easy to balance something of that sort would be, but it would look awesome, even if it was just some kind of egg buster that pops all eggs in an area.
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Feb 5, 2013 03:29
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Just had a marine team win in the late game on me. Of course, it required like 5 people who know each other all going marines and the alien team was not very good. And the spawns were departures and terminal.
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Feb 5, 2013 03:48
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wolfman101 posted:Just had a marine team win in the late game on me. Of course, it required like 5 people who know each other all going marines and the alien team was not very good. And the spawns were departures and terminal. I would say it requires a marine team that knows how to play; not that they need to know each other. There have been a lot of newbies lately and it seems like it always turns into the guys that know each other stacking like crazy versus the guys with unfamiliar names that don't know what they are doing. More so than normal, mind you.' Edit: Also, we have a guy from TBG floating around here right? What is the deal with the server lately, it has horrific lag spikes. That place was/is my usual hangout, but all the regulars have left. I miss my bro Hello, This Is Dog and the normal TBG guys.  At least with guys like that on I knew there was going to be a decent fight, rather than one team loving up horribly and everyone wanting to concede.
Torpor fucked around with this message at 04:39 on Feb 5, 2013 |
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Feb 5, 2013 04:34
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Zxahn posted:I've no idea how easy to balance something of that sort would be, but it would look awesome, even if it was just some kind of egg buster that pops all eggs in an area. I really should just start a Tremulous thread since that game actually has it. It's called Grenade and is actually a late/midgame nuke. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9j1n0GhJdMY It's expensive as hell and only works when deployed so most humans just try to book it and alla ackbar bases. The NS developers could apply a poo poo load from Trem since that game is basically abandoned freeware. Also dear god has that game aged badly. I swear to god no more Tremulous talk.
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Feb 5, 2013 04:47
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Buckwheat Sings posted:I really should just start a Tremulous thread since that game actually has it. It's called Grenade and is actually a late/midgame nuke. Err Tremulous is more than "abandoned freeware", it's open source and GPL. Not that Unknown Worlds would look at the source code or need to use the assets, but it is available.
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Feb 5, 2013 04:55
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whiskas posted:There is a hidden "late game" phase. Marines late game essentially begins when they have 2 tech points. 3 hives isn't just late game, its pretty much game over. I've seen maybe 5% marine wins after 3 hives, its a fight against time, and thats fine. This is also why I hate veil because it stalls out at 2-2 so often. Torpor posted:Edit: Also, we have a guy from TBG floating around here right? What is the deal with the server lately, it has horrific lag spikes. That place was/is my usual hangout, but all the regulars have left. I miss my bro Hello, This Is Dog and the normal TBG guys.
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Feb 5, 2013 11:11
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It seems like nearly every game I have played recently has really unstacked teams, where a guy or two on the alien side goes like 40-3 or some ridiculous number. Are there servers that randomize the teams fairly often?
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Feb 6, 2013 00:55
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Goetta posted:It seems like nearly every game I have played recently has really unstacked teams, where a guy or two on the alien side goes like 40-3 or some ridiculous number. Are there servers that randomize the teams fairly often? The Penny Arcade server does. I haven't encountered any others.
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Feb 6, 2013 01:00
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 Teaser screenshot for an upcoming Gorge ability. Looks like a form of the Nydus Worm.
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Feb 6, 2013 17:48
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Stele007 posted:
Because if there is anything this game needs right now, its the ability to have skulks appear anywhere on the map even faster.
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Feb 6, 2013 18:28
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