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I carry two Heavies so I have both.
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Feb 6, 2013 04:34
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| # ? Apr 29, 2024 11:43 |
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There really needs to be a statute of limitations on Intimidate. When I squadsight snipe a berserker from roughly three dashing moves away my loving sniper should not be able to be intimidated. Hell, he shouldn't even be able to hear him. I guess the compensation is when he panics and kills the berserker with his panic shot, though.
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Feb 6, 2013 04:48
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Does the alien rocket launcher (I forget what it's called...blaster launcher?) interact with shredder rockets in any way other than "100% hit chance?" I've always found supression more useful on heavies AND supports. Supress EVERYTHING. Blow their cover with supression.
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Feb 6, 2013 05:32
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So after beating the game on normal last week, I decided to go all in and just dive into Classic Ironman. Things have gone surprisingly well so far, only five KIA due to playing very defensively and inching forward across maps. Also abusing the ever loving gently caress out of explosives and rockets, which is something I hesitated to do in normal. But as I've found in Ironman, it's far more important to save a high ranked soldier from those three aliens that just zoned in with a 'nade or rocket than to have ZE BODIES preserved for study. Though I felt like I received a rather huge slap in the face after I stopped tonight. Cleared out the alien base in a near flawless manner tonight in the middle of June, only one soldier with grave wounds from taking a cyberdisc beam at near point blank, and two with minor wounds that plinked through my armor. So I am feeling pretty good, my squad is doing okay!! An abduction mission pops up two days later before my injured are healed, I'm gonna stop after this one, so I bring along some of the B team. Things going smoothly enough, clearing out what seems like a mission of all mutons. Then I send my assault forward to finish the only muton left, and a cyberdisc was hiding in the corner on a jeep. He's exposed, he gets one shotted two days after being a vital part of the alien base assault. Bringing my KIA up to six, and him being the toughest soldier yet to bite it.  , I guess?It's also kinda sad how four of my KIA soldiers are assault class. I hope my guys don't get a feeling of dread when they rank up to find themselves wielding a shotgun.
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Feb 6, 2013 05:33
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FairGame posted:Does the alien rocket launcher (I forget what it's called...blaster launcher?) interact with shredder rockets in any way other than "100% hit chance?" I believe the Shredder Rocket from a Blaster Launcher does 6 damage instead of 4, and keeps the damage buff the same at 33%.
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Feb 6, 2013 05:46
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SeaTard posted:You'll hear people from both camps saying their choice is the best thing ever. The real flames come out for people who suggest that a Sniper could possibly be any good with Snap Shot, or some of the other more one-sided choices. Overlord K posted:It's also kinda sad how four of my KIA soldiers are assault class. I hope my guys don't get a feeling of dread when they rank up to find themselves wielding a shotgun.
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Feb 6, 2013 06:35
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Yeah, I'd agree that Suppression vs Shredder is a pretty un-heated argument just because people have generally used both and can see how handy they both are. I see a lot more people arguing over the shotgun vs assault rifle Assaults, not realizing that there's a couple totally legitimate ways to build an Assault. I prefer Shredders, myself, but my basic ethos is that explosions are pretty much the best tactical advantage you can ask for. Suppression does great at limited tactical advantage, and later on when you can get it to do damage it's even better. But if it's me, I'd rather just blow up all the cover and giggle like a schoolgirl at all the mutons hanging out in the open now. Also, explosions. Like I said, the answer is always yes.
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Feb 6, 2013 06:44
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How are you supposed to build a Rifle assault? I can kinda see that it would be useful but a Shotgun Colonel is so awesome
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Feb 6, 2013 07:50
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Coolguye posted:I prefer Shredders, myself, but my basic ethos is that explosions are pretty much the best tactical advantage you can ask for. Suppression does great at limited tactical advantage, and later on when you can get it to do damage it's even better. But if it's me, I'd rather just blow up all the cover and giggle like a schoolgirl at all the mutons hanging out in the open now. I feel that it isn't a choice in the hardest part of the game, early game on impossible. Shredder is another rocket, another guaranteed kill on multiple sectoids. I much prefer suppression, but shredder just seems mandatory in the first few months. Rifle assault is arguably better when things are going poorly, but shotty is better for keeping the situation cool. On some maps, like the alien base, I'd rather have a rifle because of the architecture. Chakan fucked around with this message at 07:57 on Feb 6, 2013 |
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Feb 6, 2013 07:50
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THE AWESOME GHOST posted:How are you supposed to build a Rifle assault? I can kinda see that it would be useful but a Shotgun Colonel is so awesome The rifle assault is more or less identical to the shotgun assault, favoring rapid fire and lightning reflexes and so on. The difference is in execution: Rather than dashing up close to maximize crit chance, you're instead dashing to a really advantageous cover position to take two shots from considerably longer range. You have the tankiest forward scout, basically, who can really hold their own in a firefight. e: Of course they won't have the same punch as a shotgun assault, but rapid fire is rapid fire.
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Feb 6, 2013 07:57
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Snipers are just worthless. I think went 2 battles before my Captain level sniper hit anything. 
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Feb 6, 2013 08:12
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skooma512 posted:Snipers are just worthless. I think went 2 battles before my Captain level sniper hit anything. ...You're taking squadsight and giving them scopes, right?
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Feb 6, 2013 08:53
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doomfunk posted:The rifle assault is more or less identical to the shotgun assault, favoring rapid fire and lightning reflexes and so on. The difference is in execution: Rather than dashing up close to maximize crit chance, you're instead dashing to a really advantageous cover position to take two shots from considerably longer range. You have the tankiest forward scout, basically, who can really hold their own in a firefight. Shotgun Choices: Tactical Sense, Lightning Reflexes, Rapid Fire, Close Combat Spec, Resilience Rifle Choices: Aggression, Lightning Reflexes, Rapid Fire, Bring em On, Killer Instinct That rifle build can do some fantastic damage without having to move into dangerous spots, and is possibly even better at dealing with oh poo poo moments than a shotty assault -- bring em on is fantastic for that. Rifles are also much better for overwatch, but that takes away all those crit bonuses, so you need to take shots on your own turn to get your money out of it.
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Feb 6, 2013 09:36
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If playing with second wave options, low-aim assaults become shotties, high-aim assaults get rifles (and coddling). I don't screen my assaults too carefully--with absolutely critical enabled, they tend to have a pretty high casualty rate.
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Feb 6, 2013 09:46
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Deuce posted:On classic difficulty should I take shredder rockets or suppression on the heavy? The extra rocket and its damage buff are fun, but suppression sounds like it might be really helpful in dealing with the extra aim some of the baddies have. Shredder is better than suppresion early on, when the extra rocket kills. Suppresion is best midgame, when killing aliens take more shots and a Heavy can suppress 2-3 at a time. With PSI powers/ghost I prefer shredder rockets. I can avoid getting shot at with ghost or give out aim-penalties with mindfray so there is no need for suppresion. Which all my supports will have in any case.
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Feb 6, 2013 10:57
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doomfunk posted:The rifle assault is more or less identical to the shotgun assault, favoring rapid fire and lightning reflexes and so on. The difference is in execution: Rather than dashing up close to maximize crit chance, you're instead dashing to a really advantageous cover position to take two shots from considerably longer range. You have the tankiest forward scout, basically, who can really hold their own in a firefight. I don't build them like this. I build rifle assaults by basically walking down the entire defensive/left side skill tree for assaults. I favor Defensive Sense, Flush, etc. Shotgun assaults get mostly right side/aggressive skills, with a few gimmes like Close Combat Specialist. Rifle assaults aren't really made for having a huge body count, they're there for controlling the disposition of the battlefield and eliminating key targets. I'll flesh out my specific choices for them when I get back in a couple hours.
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Feb 6, 2013 13:42
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Suppression on a heavy is also pretty bad if you don't get increased ammo clips. If a heavy with Bullet Swarm does Shoot > Suppression from a full clip he needs to reload already.
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Feb 6, 2013 13:44
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THE AWESOME GHOST posted:Suppression on a heavy is also pretty bad if you don't get increased ammo clips. If a heavy with Bullet Swarm does Shoot > Suppression from a full clip he needs to reload already. It gets better if you do it as Suppression > Shoot cause you can reload right that turn (if you picked bullet swarm and if you didn't what the hell is wrong with you?).
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Feb 6, 2013 13:54
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Pau posted:It gets better if you do it as Suppression > Shoot cause you can reload right that turn (if you picked bullet swarm and if you didn't what the hell is wrong with you?). You're kidding  I thought Suppression ends it for some reason. Oh well this is why I hated suppression
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Feb 6, 2013 14:04
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Wait, I'm pretty sure supression ends turn. You really can, in the same turn, do supress-->shoot-->reload?
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Feb 6, 2013 14:16
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No, no. I meant you supress in one turn, then the next turn you shoot and then reload.
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Feb 6, 2013 14:25
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skooma512 posted:Snipers are just worthless. I think went 2 battles before my Captain level sniper hit anything. That's just your lovely luck, don't blame snipers for that. coffeetable posted:ANY ISSUES WITH THE PRNG ARE IN FACT ISSUES WITH YOUR lovely MONKEY-BRAIN PATTERN RECOGNITION ABILITIES
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Feb 6, 2013 15:14
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Pau posted:No, no. I meant you supress in one turn, then the next turn you shoot and then reload. Why would you do this? You might kill a thing by shooting first and then not even need to supress.
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Feb 6, 2013 17:55
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Klyith posted:Personally I build my Rifle Assaults with more offense boosting skills, to make up for the lesser rifle damage and crits. Plus a rifle guy is not as likely to be as big a target as a shotgun assault who needs to get up in alien grills. I see what you're doing and I like it. I'm definitely setting my next rifle assault up like that, which will probably be on a fresh Impossible game since I haven't cracked that nut yet. I'm not sure if my assault-heavy playstyle will quite work out on Impossible yet, but here's hoping. Coolguye posted:I don't build them like this. I build rifle assaults by basically walking down the entire defensive/left side skill tree for assaults. I favor Defensive Sense, Flush, etc. Shotgun assaults get mostly right side/aggressive skills, with a few gimmes like Close Combat Specialist. Rifle assaults aren't really made for having a huge body count, they're there for controlling the disposition of the battlefield and eliminating key targets. I get why you say this, but I've found since they're way more often going to be my pointment my shotgun assaults benefit a lot from heavy defensive options. Klyith's shotgun spec is identical to how I handle my assaults in general, historically speaking. I also don't take Flush anymore. I used to, and it definitely has its uses, but rapid fire is just too ubiquitously useful.
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Feb 6, 2013 17:56
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FairGame posted:Why would you do this? You might kill a thing by shooting first and then not even need to supress. With Heavy aim? That's a pretty big 'might', unless he's not in cover. And if he's not, why the hell would you even consider suppressing something that's not in cover? doomfunk posted:I get why you say this, but I've found since they're way more often going to be my pointment my shotgun assaults benefit a lot from heavy defensive options. Klyith's shotgun spec is identical to how I handle my assaults in general, historically speaking. Yeah to be clear, my assault loadouts: Shotgun: Aggression, Lightning Reflexes, Rapid Fire, Close Combat Specialist, Killer Instinct Rifle: Tac Sense, Lightning Reflexes, Flush, CCS(?), Resilience I don't walk totally on the aggressive side of life with Shotgun - Lightning Reflexes is a gimme skill, I can't see why anyone would ever take Close and Personal over it. Being able to say 'lol' to reaction shots is just too drat useful. I get that there's a nice synergy there with KI for some absolutely hideous criticals but shotgunners will very often see reaction fire as they move to their firing position. CCS is also a no-brainer when a dude is probably going to be within 4 squares of a target just to get his shots in. I used to build shotgunners with Tac Sense, but Aggression really, really helps for keeping crit rates reasonable on the Hardened bastards later in the game. It sure makes an alloy cannon a real bastard, even on mechanical dudes because the drones all count as enemies in sight for the crit chance spike. Also, the synergy between KI and Rapid Fire means that I can't pass it up. I use Flush pretty heavily to keep me from having to deal with too many aliens at one time. It's great when engaging at near maximum range, because the dude you flush will probably retreat off screen and therefore be vulnerable to Overwatch traps returning to his position. AI also acts funky when it has to move back up, too, sometimes it moves wrong and exposes itself - people have theorized this is because the aliens don't have quite as much shared vision as XCOM does. Rapid Fire is probably useful in more situations, but it's less useful per situation, if that makes sense. When Flush is useful it's the cornerstone of an entire tactical approach. Essentially, what Flush does for me is put the onus on the aliens to retreat instead of me if I can't kill them all this turn. But it gets more useful proportional to how far away you are from the enemy. Up close, you're probably just going to get the target to switch some bits around, maybe exchange full cover for half. Far away, they'll run off the screen and be just as vulnerable as if you'd fallen back and set up a trap. But, that said, this is also a big difference in just overall tactical doctrine. My rifle Assaults synergize great with Snipers (Opportunist shots make Jesus smile and aliens cry), but their usefulness is lost on Heavies. Alternately, my shotgun assaults love Heavies to pieces but couldn't care less about their Sniper comrades. Everyone gets along great with Supports, because Supports.  I'll typically build two different 'A-Teams' during a standard game for this reason. The more defensive and conservative team, with 2 Snipers, a Suppress heavy, and some combination of 3 Supports and Rifle Assaults (whatever my mood is) get deployed for stuff like a downed UFO where I really need the material. The more offensive and aggressive team, with 1 Sniper, 2 shotgun assaults, and some combination of 3 rocket heavies and supports (again, mood) will get deployed when I'd prefer to just turn everything into a goddamn crater. Coolguye fucked around with this message at 18:22 on Feb 6, 2013 |
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Feb 6, 2013 17:56
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Coolguye posted:With Heavy aim? That's a pretty big 'might', unless he's not in cover. Blow them up to bring down their health/cover, then go for a capture? I was going to say robots that don't need cover but whoops, HEAT 
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Feb 6, 2013 18:02
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Spiffo posted:I was going to say robots that don't need cover but whoops, HEAT Suppression's pointless against Big Guys like that.
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Feb 6, 2013 18:15
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Coolguye posted:Not just that, but robots, Chryssalids, and basically anything else that doesn't use cover does not acknowledge suppression. They'll just try to move immediately anyway, and you get the shot you would've taken, only now you used 2 measures of ammo to take it instead of 1. Well against Cyberdisks and Sectopods they might stay put and simply take the shot, in which case I assume they would suffer the aim penalty. But yeah, you're still so obviously better off HEAT shooting robots than suppressing robots. edit: except for damage-suppression taking out a cyberdisk's drones, or dealing with a closed cyberdisk since they're harder to hit and you can get damage off that way. 9/10 though you just shoot them. Spiffo fucked around with this message at 18:45 on Feb 6, 2013 |
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Feb 6, 2013 18:42
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Coolguye posted:Not just that, but robots, Chryssalids, and basically anything else that doesn't use cover does not acknowledge suppression. They'll just try to move immediately anyway, and you get the shot you would've taken, only now you used 2 measures of ammo to take it instead of 1. Not really - it reduces aim and has area of effect with another perk.
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Feb 6, 2013 18:44
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gender illusionist posted:Not really - it reduces aim and has area of effect with another perk. It stops reducing aim if they move. Which they very, very, very often do.
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Feb 6, 2013 18:45
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Muton Berserkers don't seem to like triggering overwatch shots, though. Seems like something of an AI oversight.
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Feb 6, 2013 21:28
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FairGame posted:Why would you do this? You might kill a thing by shooting first and then not even need to supress. I usually move into a good position, then supress. My team gets to kill all the other x-rays while the supressed one misses. Next turn it's dead meat, I shoot and reload and push my team forward.
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Feb 6, 2013 22:10
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Coolguye posted:It stops reducing aim if they move. Which they very, very, very often do. Really? I never saw a suppressed non-melee guy move, however I only used it about 10 times in my whole game.
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Feb 6, 2013 23:16
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Coolguye posted:Not just that, but robots, Chryssalids, and basically anything else that doesn't use cover does not acknowledge suppression. They'll just try to move immediately anyway, and you get the shot you would've taken, only now you used 2 measures of ammo to take it instead of 1. It is kinda funny having a whole bunch of heavies and supports all suppress one cyberdisc knowing that it'll try to move. So much dakka that isn't doing poo poo.  Of course only do this if you have 100% confidence said cyberdisc won't throw a grenade at you.
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Feb 7, 2013 00:10
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Brainamp posted:Of course only do this if you have 100% confidence said cyberdisc won't throw a grenade at you. You should never have this. Cyberdiscs are rear end in a top hat that hand out grenades like Pez.
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Feb 7, 2013 00:20
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Cyberdiscs have never failed to grenade me at any opportunity. My rule for them is to kill them dead.
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Feb 7, 2013 00:34
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The only good way to deal with Sectopods and Cyberdisks: Murder them ruthlessly the second you see them.
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Feb 7, 2013 00:34
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Take Two earnings reports came out (today , I think) and it looks like XCOM did very well. We'll definitely get a sequel, that's for sure.
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Feb 7, 2013 02:19
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Coolguye posted:The only good way to deal with Sectopods and Cyberdisks: Murder them ruthlessly the second you see them. Which I just found out the hard way in my first full game, having bought this game this weekend. I shot down the overseer and glimpsed a Sectopod, but mostly ignored him to finish capturing a Heavy Floater. Then he killed two of my soldiers. I had no idea they had two attacks AND huge explosives AND free overwatch. That poo poo sucks.
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Feb 7, 2013 02:27
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| # ? Apr 29, 2024 11:43 |
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What the gently caress are those huge machine things called, cause jesus christ, they wrecked my poo poo p. good, wasn't expecting that edit: Serious point, though: I'm playing on normal so I'm only somewhat hosed losing two thirds of my A-Team. How bad would something like that gently caress me on classic?
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Feb 7, 2013 02:29
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