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Orzo posted:Also, if the target market is PC users, Halo is a really bad thing to compare your game to. PC gamers are snobby about Halo and Gears of War and other console FPS games. Doom and Quake and Chex Quest are better things to compare to. Snobbishness is part of it certainly but there's also the fact there hasn't been a Halo game on PC in 6 years. It just isn't relevant. It betrays a lack of knowledge of the genre and the market. Maluco Marinero posted:Also, you have to understand that SA communities do not have a history of pulling punches, especially when it comes to criticism. My own projects have copped a beating when I've shown them on here, but they were all the better for it. Approach it objectively, keep a respectful tone and the rest of the community will reciprocate. Argue for your own standpoint but understand that you are only entitled to what you can argue for. Adopt this mindset and we'll be able to help you, because your weaker ideas and preconceptions will be shown for what they are. To put it another way, coming into SA or any community like say NeoGAF or a popular gaming subreddit without any knowledge of how people behave is just asking for trouble. You know those cliche comedy sketches where the stuffy business guy tries to be "down" with the kids by sitting on his chair backwards, referencing pokemon and trying to rap? ClickerMonkey that was pretty much exactly what you were doing. At the very least, think about a place where you like to hang out and think what would make a person trying to sell stuff to you in that environment more tolerable. Now I don't just mean what exact interests and opinions they'd need to have, but also what general steps would they need to take to work out what the accepted customs and behaviours are.
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Feb 22, 2013 16:10
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Saoshyant posted:Do you understand why this is a bad comparison? I'd wager most people here would give the benefit of doubt to IPL, but I'm not so sure the same courtesy would be extended to Banner Saga. I personally feel we are looking at a rather badly managed project later turned into a scam out of despair. That may turn out not to be the case, but boy, would I feel absolutely enraged had I backed that project. As a backer who's been following the updates posted by Stoic I'm fine. It's been an interesting surprise to see the sudden outrage.
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Feb 22, 2013 16:11
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I periodically check on that Cryamore kickstarter for the same reason liberals watch Bill O'Reilly. They have most of their stretch goals, except they're missing major (wii + ps3 + 360) support. I don't understand how anyone could put that as an extra $50,000, are these people totally delusional or am I misunderstanding how much it costs to post to those systems? They are using Unity BTW. Also, is it standard to call enemies 'mobs' now? Ugh... I mean, if that's normal now that's fine, things change, but they're catering to an zelda/SOM/Metriod/Megaman audience, not a MMORPG audience.
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Feb 22, 2013 16:16
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I haven't used the term 'mobs' since I played MUDs probably 10-15 years or so ago. Anything is better than referring to your characters as 'toons' though. Harlock fucked around with this message at 16:39 on Feb 22, 2013 |
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Feb 22, 2013 16:37
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Meanwhile, the Dreamfall Chapters Kickstarter is doing very well still. They crossed $1 million in pledges today with a little over 2 weeks to go. It'll be really interesting to see if they can hit their ultimate $2 million stretch goal. I don't think they will, but the last week is always unpredictable.
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Feb 22, 2013 16:37
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macnbc posted:It'll be really interesting to see if they can hit their ultimate $2 million stretch goal. I don't think they will, but the last week is always unpredictable. It seems to be implied to be a separate thing; possible a remake of TLJ, possibly something else. If it is standalone, they might find it worth Kickstarting seperately after Dreamfall Chapters is done.
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Feb 22, 2013 16:42
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Harlock posted:I haven't used the term 'mobs' since I played MUDs probably 10-15 years or so ago. Both of those terms are the worst. Ugh. Saoshyant posted:You can do stuff in voxels that doesn't look Minecraft blocky, like Outcast. It won't look pretty, though (check the fifth picture). Yeah that's what I was thinking of. Also stuff like the "3D" items in Blood done in voxels or (I believe) even CryEngine uses them for certain things. Back when I was making maps for Crysis 1 there was a voxel painter built-in that you would use for like details around a cave entrance or other weird shaped things in the geometry.
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Feb 22, 2013 16:48
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Harlock posted:I haven't used the term 'mobs' since I played MUDs probably 10-15 years or so ago. Yeah, that's awful. Where the hell did toons even come from?
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Feb 22, 2013 17:13
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Wendell posted:Yeah, that's awful. Where the hell did toons even come from? I think I first saw the term when World of Warcraft was in beta and people referred to their characters as "cartoons". Or "Toons". God, I hated that.
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Feb 22, 2013 17:26
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I think toons is falling out of fashion, thankfully. I hardly ever see it these days, if at all. Mobs is still alive and well though. I don't hate that quite as much.
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Feb 22, 2013 17:28
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Mordaedil posted:I think I first saw the term when World of Warcraft was in beta and people referred to their characters as "cartoons". Or "Toons". God, I hated that. It predates that - Disney's Toontown Online saw a brief surge of popularity around a year or two before WoW launched.
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Feb 22, 2013 18:02
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Baby Sathanas posted:I think toons is falling out of fashion, thankfully. I hardly ever see it these days, if at all. I hate 'mobs' too, but it seems so widespread that I just flung my hands up and ignore it. 
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Feb 22, 2013 18:20
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Fintilgin posted:I hate 'mobs' too, but it seems so widespread that I just flung my hands up and ignore it.
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Feb 22, 2013 18:44
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Orzo posted:My main beef with 'mob' is that 'mob' is already real word that means something totally different. When I was reading that Cryamore post about mobs I thought it was about swarms of enemies that attack you all at once, because that's what a loving mob is. Yay, I'm not the only one, I was under the mistaken impression that mobs specifically referred to enemies that spawned in large groups for years. Toon is fine, it sounds stupid and I'd never use it personally, but not worthy of more than an eye-roll.
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Feb 22, 2013 19:06
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Illessa posted:Yay, I'm not the only one, I was under the mistaken impression that mobs specifically referred to enemies that spawned in large groups for years. I don't know, I prefer "mob" to "add". I don't even know what the gently caress,
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Feb 22, 2013 19:10
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For the record, Mob comes from Mobile, which is what you called an NPC in a MUD that could actually move between rooms instead of just waiting around to get scraped to death.Saoshyant posted:Do you understand why this is a bad comparison? Yeah, that's why I said it was only sort of relevant. It's basically just another example of the fact that game design is an iterative process, and you run into problem you didn't anticipate so things can easily take a lot longer than you expect. I think you're underestimating the number of unforseen interactions that can happen even in a turn based game -- I'm basically talking about combat balance, which I think might be comparable in number of variables involved to whatever the hell Knock-Knock is. I'm a Banner Saga backer and I don't have any issues at all with Factions. I haven't played it and have no real interest in playing it, but I don't see much cause to freak out about anything. If they had pushed out the singleplayer first, it would be without all the refinements to the UI and combat that have come from creating a multiplayer component. I'd wager the single player AI might be a tad better than it would otherwise since they have a much wider base of data to pull from about what strategies are effective or not. It's a bit like Starsector (formerly Starfarer.) The developer there has been focused on core combat for quite some time, so while there are a ton of campaign features missing from the game the actual fighting is razor-sharp and a lot of fun. In that case there isn't the additional overhead of multiplayer functionality which certainly took dev time away from Banner Saga's singleplayer, but they've never hidden the fact that the multiplayer was going to come out first so gnashing teeth about it is a little pointless. I don't buy the argument that all (or even most) of the time spent on Factions was a waste. Art, animations, music, UI, and the combat itself will all be the same in singleplayer. Since combat is the meat of the game I want them to spend as much time working on it as possible. I can't think of a better way to tune up the combat than with the massive parallel testing that having a live multiplayer aspect grants. Sure, I'd love to have the singleplayer in hand right now, but I don't have any real reason to believe I won't get it eventually. NmareBfly fucked around with this message at 19:16 on Feb 22, 2013 |
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Feb 22, 2013 19:12
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ijyt posted:I don't know, I prefer "mob" to "add". I don't even know what the gently caress, Except that "add" and "mob" are not interchangeable. Adds are additional mobs, either unexpected or expected but not the main focus (e.g. in boss battles). I don't really understand the hate, languages changes all the time and every group will have its own jargon built upon their specific needs. It's really pointless to get angry because "mob" as an in-game enemy, short for "Mobile (Object)", has nothing to do with "mob" as a crowd. They are homographs/homonyms and that's where the similarities end. English has shitload of such words, e.g. bow, row etc. I don't think I ever used "toon" myself but seeing someone else use it leaves me indifferent. There are far more annoying words or memetic phrases like "gief"... lordfrikk fucked around with this message at 19:26 on Feb 22, 2013 |
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Feb 22, 2013 19:24
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lordfrikk posted:It's really pointless to get angry because "mob" as an in-game enemy, short for "Mobile (Object)", has nothing to do with "mob" as a crowd.  Oh. Oh so that's what it means.
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Feb 22, 2013 19:31
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MikeJF posted:It seems to be implied to be a separate thing; possible a remake of TLJ, possibly something else. If it is standalone, they might find it worth Kickstarting seperately after Dreamfall Chapters is done.
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Feb 22, 2013 19:38
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lordfrikk posted:It's really pointless to get angry because "mob" as an in-game enemy, short for "Mobile (Object)", has nothing to do with "mob" as a crowd. They are homographs/homonyms and that's where the similarities end. English has shitload of such words, e.g. bow, row etc.
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Feb 22, 2013 19:48
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Orzo posted:Except you can usually differentiate the intended usage of a homonym from the context. With 'mob', you can't. Is it a mob of enemies? Or is it a 'mobile' unit? The confusion doesn't exist with 'bow', since you would never equip a motion where you bend over. Dragon Quest IX. 
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Feb 22, 2013 19:50
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Orzo posted:Or is it a 'mobile' unit? The confusion doesn't exist with 'bow', since you would never equip a motion where you bend over. Yeah, but if you have a bow in your hand you might just have a ribbon. Or the front of a ship, if you have really big hands.
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Feb 22, 2013 20:00
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"add" was born out of necessity, not because people thought it was a cool term. Back in the day when most people weren't using voice chat, you didn't have the time to stop doing everything to write a proper sentence describing that another enemy just engaged the group.
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Feb 22, 2013 21:06
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Orzo posted:Except you can usually differentiate the intended usage of a homonym from the context. With 'mob', you can't. Is it a mob of enemies? Or is it a 'mobile' unit? The confusion doesn't exist with 'bow', since you would never equip a motion where you bend over. Yeah it's quirky but that's the direction the terminology went. No use getting worked up about it these days... that ship has sailed years and years ago.
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Feb 22, 2013 21:15
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echoMateria posted:"add" was born out of necessity, not because people thought it was a cool term. Back in the day when most people weren't using voice chat, you didn't have the time to stop doing everything to write a proper sentence describing that another enemy just engaged the group. You know, I never really thought about it that way. Only three letters, two that are the same, close together and easily typed by the hand that's on the keyboard. And here I just thought it was a term someone randomly started using and everyone liked.
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Feb 22, 2013 21:24
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Johnny Law posted:Yeah it's quirky but that's the direction the terminology went. No use getting worked up about it these days... that ship has sailed years and years ago.
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Feb 22, 2013 21:25
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Asylum just got funded. And a week before their Kickstarter ends. Yay, more creepiness from the creator of Scratches.
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Feb 22, 2013 21:29
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Orzo posted:I don't know, I read a bunch of game dev blogs and this is the first one that's used the term 'mob', hence my confusion. It's one of those things where either you don't see it used or you see it used all the time and finding out that others do/don't is bizarre
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Feb 22, 2013 21:40
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I think people don't like "mob" and "add" because firstly, they sound kind of lame, and secondly, using those terms is breaking down gameplay into abstracted shorthand divorced from the fiction of what's being shown/experienced. The later is unappealing to me because I always thought games that reached that level of familiarity, automation, or whatever you want to call it, became less fun. None of my MMO subscriptions lasted very long. "Toon" is just stupid.
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Feb 22, 2013 21:51
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Locus posted:I think people don't like "mob" and "add" because firstly, they sound kind of lame, and secondly, using those terms is breaking down gameplay into abstracted shorthand divorced from the fiction of what's being shown/experienced.
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Feb 22, 2013 22:01
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In certain MUD codebases like SMAUG 'Mob/Mobile' was the actual classification that you gave NPCs/Enemies that even the command was 'mcreate' to create them, 'mset' changed values, etc.
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Feb 22, 2013 22:06
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Are you guys really arguing about game terms that are more than a decade old?
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Feb 22, 2013 22:10
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TyrsHTML posted:Are you guys really arguing about game terms that are more than a decade old? Nerds. Nerds never change.
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Feb 22, 2013 22:25
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TyrsHTML posted:Are you guys really arguing about game terms that are more than a decade old?
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Feb 22, 2013 22:29
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I think they should be called 'bits' instead of 'adds'. You know, like the lavos bits. Except one of those was actually lavos, gently caress.
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Feb 22, 2013 22:51
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The White Dragon posted:Well I'm a linguist by study so this kinda poo poo fascinates me, y'know? Adds, though, all I can imagine for the etymology on that is like "additional dudes" for bosses. Pretty sure adds doesn't get deeper than that. One thing I always wanted to know is where creep came from? Best I could ever figure out was a short form of critter, by all of two letters.
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Feb 22, 2013 23:28
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Mobas, npcs creeping towards the base.
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Feb 23, 2013 00:12
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The term creep definitely was around before mobas were really a thing. It was an existing term when Warcraft 3 came out and was used to refer to neutral creatures in that game. edit: According to an untrustworthy source(Wowwiki) Blizzard actually invented the term creep for Warcraft 3. I just assumed it was already around because it was used in official text for that game. Fergus Mac Roich fucked around with this message at 00:18 on Feb 23, 2013 |
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Feb 23, 2013 00:15
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yea thats not right as it was used for starcraft. The creep was the zerg build area. Its undoubtly older than that.
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Feb 23, 2013 00:25
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TyrsHTML posted:yea thats not right as it was used for starcraft. The creep was the zerg build area. Its undoubtly older than that. Or a corruption of it
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