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Stretching Monobear, huh?
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Mar 3, 2013 02:39
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Could someone draw on the map where the fire doors are? I'm having trouble visualizing it. E:  All I can see are the 3 main doors between the kitchen and hall, but how would you get into the kitchen otherwise if those are the fire doors? DeathBySpoon fucked around with this message at 03:09 on Mar 3, 2013 |
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Mar 3, 2013 03:00
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orenronen posted:
Also: Check this out, this is right after Hinata arrived at the party and got body checked by Togami. The irons are unplugged. Hmm...
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Mar 3, 2013 03:08
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Bah. There aren't even any Hidden Monobears here. Back to the corridor, and we can finally go to our actual destination.
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DeathBySpoon posted:Could someone draw on the map where the fire doors are? I'm having trouble visualizing it. It's not what I would call up to fire code since there's only one exit and anyone in an actual fire would be trapped by the doors, but I don't think things on this island were built to code in general.
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Mar 3, 2013 03:24
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DeathBySpoon posted:Could someone draw on the map where the fire doors are? I'm having trouble visualizing it. The fire doors are right next to the kitchen door. It's easy to see on the left in this screenshot of the entrance to the kitchen:  And in this one; facing the bathroom (that's the door at the end of the hallway in the centre), the kitchen door would be just offscreen on the right: 
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Mar 3, 2013 03:26
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No crawlspace evidence in any of the rooms, and only the bathroom remains unsearched. We'll have to assume that no under-the-floorboards shenanigans took place unless one turns up in the bathroom. And if we assume the fire doors were active during the blackout, that means that no one except Hanamura could have gotten to the storage room, who himself couldn't have gotten to the crime scene if he was actually in the kitchen. And due to being the one who went there post-blackout while everyone else was searching other places, Nagito was the only one who could have safely disposed of the bloodied cloth post-blackout without being seen by others, whether that tablecloth was used to wipe off blood post-murder or was utilized in the murder somehow, hidden elsewhere during the blackout, or retrieved and disposed in the storage room post-blackout. Hanamura's dialogue doesn't necessarily imply he was in the party room (perhaps he just exited the kitchen and shouted his line, and the doors and walls between him weren't soundproof?), so unless we get some vital evidence in the bathroom, outside the cabin, Togami's lodge, or a reexamination of other rooms...welp. It's Nagito, folks. Basically the crawlspace murder being a thing is the only way I can think of for a non-Nagito murderer to pull this off, since at the very least it's exceedingly likely Nagito at least got blood on himself/got blood on a tablecloth he was carrying and was responsible for the knife's location, whether or not he actually killed Togami. And since he very likely got blood on himself and didn't tell anyone, it's very likely he at least tried to kill Togami or was going to try to kill someone with the knife. Rawkking fucked around with this message at 04:58 on Mar 3, 2013 |
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Mar 3, 2013 04:50
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I don't know if this will be the case in the game, but in real life fire doors like that always have push bars that let people out in the event of an emergency. The Dark Id posted:Stretching Monobear, huh? This made me laugh way harder than it should have.
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Mar 3, 2013 04:52
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 What am I looking at? Is that just a rubber mat so you don't slip or some kind of drainage grate that a short fat cook could lift up and scurry around under the floor?
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Mar 3, 2013 04:58
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At the grand total of one (1) kitchens I've worked in, the drainage grates were built into the flooring, so to get down one you would have to cut through or otherwise break the grate somehow. Not to say that there couldn't be a liftable grate, but you can't assume that they are all liftable either. If it wasn't investigated at this point, it's probably not relevant, though maybe the game is forcing you to miss it and someone else will bring it up in the trial. Edit edit: Though Hanamura's testimony does claim that he found his way to the party room in the blackout, with no mention of a fire door...maybe there's hope for my favorite DR2 character after all... Rawkking fucked around with this message at 05:10 on Mar 3, 2013 |
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Mar 3, 2013 05:01
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^^^ Really? Wouldn't the grate need to be removable at least for cleaning purposes?Rawkking posted:No crawlspace evidence in any of the rooms, and only the bathroom remains unsearched. We'll have to assume that no under-the-floorboards shenanigans took place unless one turns up in the bathroom. Alternatively, there may be a way to get under there from outside. The knife definitely isn't the weapon, so the weapon must be the missing skewer. The missing skewer definitely wasn't used in the dining area, so it was probably used through the floor. The game pointing out the wide gaps between the planks in the floor adds credence to this theory
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Mar 3, 2013 05:12
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That looks exactly like the rubber nonslip mats that have been at every kitchen I've worked in.
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Mar 3, 2013 05:16
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QuarkJets posted:^^^ Really? Wouldn't the grate need to be removable at least for cleaning purposes? Or the culprit used the table cloth to block the blood spatter. Togami physically saw someone doing something. Then Died. Chances are the murder occurred above ground.
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Mar 3, 2013 05:23
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Ditocoaf posted:That looks exactly like the rubber nonslip mats that have been at every kitchen I've worked in. Yeah. That is exactly what that is. Both my parents were chefs. I've seen hundreds of those things. It'd be a background art gently caress-up if there wasn't one. The Dark Id fucked around with this message at 05:29 on Mar 3, 2013 |
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Mar 3, 2013 05:27
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Memes are stupid, especially when they're a bannable offense. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) Gensuki fucked around with this message at 21:58 on Mar 4, 2013 |
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Mar 3, 2013 05:28
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I'm not sure why the fire door would close during a blackout, but that is probably what it did. Why else would a door be a piece of evidence? In other words, during the blackout the kitchen wasn't accessible from the ballroom. This seems sort of odd, as that would mean Hanamura lied but also that he could not have been the murderer barring crawlspace shenanigans.
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Mar 3, 2013 05:34
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I'm glad it's not a drainage grate, I mean for that to be the answer to the murder from under the floorboards they'd just have to be draining their loose meat juices into the dirt under the cabin. That'd have to be a health code violation or at least extremely nasty.
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Mar 3, 2013 05:35
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Ditocoaf posted:That looks exactly like the rubber nonslip mats that have been at every kitchen I've worked in. While I agree (from my own experience as well), they look kind of far back from the counters. Generally you want to place those under where people are actually standing while they prepare and cook food.
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Mar 3, 2013 05:37
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I love how complicated this case is. I have no elaborate arguments or theories, just some gut feelings, though. Also, I bet Peko's faking her illness because there's something she doesn't want to talk about, but it has NOTHING to do with the murder, at least directly. Figuring out what that is might be key to cracking the murder. I would bet on either Hanamura or Souda as the killer, given that one was in the lodge quite a long time, and the other's an effing mechanic who would obviously know how to cause a blackout, and is actively trying to accuse Peko of the murder. And, well, there's Nagito, who had ample time to familiarize himself with the location and is being totally fishy, but I think he's a red herring. But eh, I really want to see the rest of the evidence before trying to come up with any theories. Our picture of things is still woefully inadequate.
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Mar 3, 2013 05:55
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Ndi posted:People have been taking this as evidence that Hanamura poisoned the food, but I'm wondering if it isn't evidence that Peko is faking her bowel issues. Owari seemed just fine last we saw her, and she should be much worse off than Peko is. "I was pooping" is not that terrible as far as alibis go, especially when Nidai made sure everyone knew that the bathroom was occupied. Souda's insistence on her guilt is suspicious, but I think he's too similar to Leon to be the culprit this time around. Another little trick murder mysteries do is have characters outright state something true in a way that makes you discount it as a possibility. Souda's one of my favorites, so I also might be searching for evidence of his innocence. 1) She would be out of commission and was the only one by herself. A singular incident of food poisoning wouldn't be enough to pin something on Hanamura, whereas everyone getting food poisoning would be quickly suspicious considering the chef is a SHSL Cook. 2) She's one of the three strongest in the group (Nidai and Akane being the other two) and is clearly more focused and stoic compared to Nidai and Akane. The most important reason is the third. 3) She was in the room where the breakers were. If the blackout happened while she was in the room, she would be able to quickly flip the switch on and put an end to it. The culprit's plans would be ruined before they could even begin. She had to be removed from the room before the blackout occurred and what better way to do that then force her to abandon her post? E: Rereading the update where Peko left, it does seem like she took food from the buffet however. I still stand by the food being tainted by Hanamura in some manner. Peko being absent from the room during the blackout was necessary for the plan to work. Only Hanamura, who had access to the food beforehand, could taint it so that she wouldn't be in the office when everything went down. lotus circle fucked around with this message at 06:04 on Mar 3, 2013 |
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Mar 3, 2013 05:55
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Krinkle posted:I'm glad it's not a drainage grate, I mean for that to be the answer to the murder from under the floorboards they'd just have to be draining their loose meat juices into the dirt under the cabin. That'd have to be a health code violation or at least extremely nasty.
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Mar 3, 2013 05:57
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Wait... Hanamura was there (Photo), then left to go to the kitchen, then returned (Ah, it's not just the kitchen?), then went back to the kitchen, then returned again? That's... A bit odd, isn't it
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Mar 3, 2013 06:09
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Ibuki has the most amazing faces in the game.  So we have confirmation that the culprit overloaded the electrical system and blew a fuse, confirmation that Togami's last words were "ow, stop it", a questionable bloody tablecloth, and a contagious case of the shits. Not enough to nail a character to the wall yet, but enough to cast suspicion on the PoIs that have been in the building for long periods of time; namely Red Herring and Hanamura. No motive and no explanation of the murder weapon, but Red Herring is leading the investigation and Hanamura has had free reign of the building for a long time. If Sakura and Asahina's lovechild catches a case of the shits, it's going to look real bad for the Chef.
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Mar 3, 2013 06:17
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orenronen posted:
We're going to have were-Ibukis on the loose. I hope we check up on Peko next update. Sounds like someone's trying to keep her quiet with food poisoning. Come to think of it, I wonder if she had something our toilet-seeking Coach did.
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Mar 3, 2013 06:18
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Yes! All hail Ibuki! Time for my prize!
--Ow! She actually bit me!
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HangedManArcana posted:Wait... Hanamura was there (Photo), then left to go to the kitchen, then returned (Ah, it's not just the kitchen?), then went back to the kitchen, then returned again? That's... A bit odd, isn't it Seeing as how he was moving food from the kitchen to the main room, not particularly.
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Mar 3, 2013 06:18
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So was slipping laxatives into the food or whatever it was that made Pekoyama sick just trying to sow dissent by making her absent during it (which seems like kind of a crapshoot in many ways, but hey), considering they had to have flipped them with this engineered outage? Seems like a lot of work for something that might not pay off.
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Mar 3, 2013 06:31
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EDIT: Disregard. It certainly IS possible to overthink things too much.
Joenen fucked around with this message at 07:31 on Mar 3, 2013 |
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Mar 3, 2013 06:36
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Joenen posted:I hate to ask this style of question but after reading these past few pages.... It's possible, but really doubt the game would bring something like that up. Besides, it appeared that whatever was affecting her hit again, very suddenly, while we were talking to her. Not to mention Coach's own bowel troubles. Laxatives or disease seem more likely.
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Mar 3, 2013 06:41
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fool_of_sound posted:It's possible, but really doubt the game would bring something like that up. Besides, it appeared that whatever was affecting her hit again, very suddenly, while we were talking to her. Not to mention Coach's own bowel troubles. Laxatives or disease seem more likely. Hmm. Now that I think about it, maybe the "only Akane and Peko ate the food" clue is meant to disprove the poisoning theory. If Akane isn't affected... and Nidai is... then the poison/laxative deal must have been delivered some other way. Drinks, maybe? Slip something in their juice when they're not looking, thus getting the two physical threats out of the way ahead of time.
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Mar 3, 2013 06:46
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Joenen posted:I hate to ask this style of question but after reading these past few pages.... I highly doubt something like this is going on. This is a mystery game, things like this are explained through the clues given in the game and the implications of certain characters and their abilities (Hanamura being the chef, Souda being a mechanic and so on). There is definitely some kind of food poisoning afoot here. Peko being in the office room with the breakers was not something the culprit could have predicted ahead of time, so something had to be set up to get rid of her for the blackout to work.
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Mar 3, 2013 06:47
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Joenen posted:Am I the only one that thinks its just "her time of the month?" You have got to be loving kidding me.  right now.
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Mar 3, 2013 07:02
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Joenen posted:Or the culprit used the table cloth to block the blood spatter. The table cloth could be used to block the blood splatter, but what I'm suggesting is that the knife wasn't used in the murder because the blood pattern on it doesn't make sense for a stabbing. This leaves only the missing skewer as a weapon, which would need to have been used through the floor because it's not anywhere in the room that we just finished investigating. Unless it's maybe just really well-hidden in the room and some other character will bring it up later, but I doubt it. Here's my summary: Nagito planted the knife and setup the blackout. Togami saw Nagito going for the knife during the blackout. They struggle, but Togami prevails. Togami gets under the table, sees the knife and grabs it. Someone stabs Togami through the gaps in the floor with the skewer Serious Frolicking posted:I'm not sure why the fire door would close during a blackout, but that is probably what it did. Why else would a door be a piece of evidence? In other words, during the blackout the kitchen wasn't accessible from the ballroom. This seems sort of odd, as that would mean Hanamura lied but also that he could not have been the murderer barring crawlspace shenanigans. Yes, I think this is the key piece of evidence. Fire doors are generally one-way access points. Hanamura claims that he went to the kitchen, came back to the ballroom after the blackout, and then went back to the kitchen. This is impossible with the fire door there. We do know that he was able to say something in the room though. This indicates crawlspace shenanigans, to me.
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Mar 3, 2013 07:05
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Nobody is explaining the discarded tablecloth, and I think THAT is a key clue that needs rectifying. How did the blood--and the cloth--get there? There's not been a lot of time, and the bloody table cloth is still on the table with Togami's corpse. Why this other cloth? Whose blood is on it? And where's the Yakuza!?
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Mar 3, 2013 07:08
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Joenen posted:I hate to ask this style of question but after reading these past few pages.... I don't really have words to express how loving not cute and inappropriate this is.
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Mar 3, 2013 07:13
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Well poo poo, there's a lot of new evidence here and I'm not sure how to piece it all together just yet. For one the existence of the bloody cloth in the storage room at least gives us an avenue of thought for someone making the kill from the room and not under the floorboards. I have no idea how it would have played out, and the cloth could just as easily have been used by the supposed person under the floor for the same reason, but at least we finally have evidence that is connected to blood splatter, and we can reason from there. Also, for everyone talking about Peko being poisoned, read the update where she left to guard the office: orenronen posted:
This looks to me like she fixed her own plate of food and left by herself. There's no indication anyone messed with her food before she left the room. This suggests either A: all the food was poisoned, and she got poisoned by chance (this would suggest she wasn't singled out to be poisoned), B: Her food was poisoned at some later date, or C: Peko is up to some shenanigans and is lying about being poisoned at all. I'm not sure what to make of it, but we should consider that when figuring out how her sickness ties into the case.
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Mar 3, 2013 07:19
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But, since all the food is here, do you mind if I take my share with me to the storage room?
Of course not!
But... if we're going to have someone stand guard, there's probably a better place to use than the storage room.
In that case... she can guard it at the office.
Yeah, the office would be great. Happily, it isn't that messy over there.
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You guys sure are freaking out about menstruation for no reason, huh? I think it's a pretty valid theory, especially with Nagito's comment after Peko left. quote:
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Mar 3, 2013 07:22
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Um... It would be rude for me to say anything. I have to think about Pekoyama-san's feelings...
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lotus circle posted:I gave an explanation for this earlier on that I think seems reasonable. The explanation being that only Peko's food was tainted. She took a portion and went off on her own. Akane took the food straight from the buffet table. If Hanamura tainted the entire buffet table then it would become quickly obvious that he did something to it. Poisoning only Peko works for three reasons. You seem to be forgetting something. Peko volunteered. It was her idea to guard the case, and her idea to take a plate of food. No one intentionally poisoned her food only. The only person who could have planned that she would be absent from the office is Peko herself.
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Mar 3, 2013 07:22
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Are there two fire doors or only one? If there are two, and Peko was in either the bathroom or the office when the power went out, then she would be sealed off from the ballroom, according the the map. And while there could be some secret passage in the bathroom, let's break down some things (also, let me exonerate Peko some more)- You could lie in wait under the floor with a skewer and a laundry sheet ready to kill someone pretty easily. Just wait for 11:30 and then you spike the first person to go for that knife. Simple and cleanly; you don't get any blue blood on your school clothes. However, with the fire doors the way they are, and the bloody table cloth's location, the killer had to have come from the storage room to get under the floor. The Bathroom can't have a passageway in it because you'd have to get through two sets of fire doors to go stuff the bloodied sheet in the storage room, where it's been found. The bathroom was occupied the entire party by Peko; if there was a secret passage in there, she'd still have to wait for the power to come back on, and then haul rear end over to the storage room and ditch the bloody cloth. She'd have to wait for the lights to come back on to do this. And even if she'd been in the office and then walked over to the storage room before 11:30, Hanamura and/or Nidai would have noticed because one's trying to get to the thunderbucket, and the other's been moving in and out of the kitchen the whole time. Also, the biggest flaw in Peko being a suspect is how could she have hidden the skewer and found out about--or arranged-- the power outage? Hanamura and Nagito are the only dudes who;ve been there all or part of the day and Togami searched everyone else. Honestly, it's gotta be Hanamura. Nagito was in the room when the lights went out and the killer had to have struck from *under* the room. Peko can't have gotten to the storage room because there were some witnesses. Hanamura's the only character moving around enough to set up his own plan, and with enough time to do it, and with access to the places he can ditch evidence.
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Mar 3, 2013 07:23
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If Nagito caused the blackout, he's also the killer, according to what Monobear said. Monobear said the "CULPRIT" caused the blackout. Also, I was going over the section where Peko volunteers to guard the case, and it doesn't seem like there was even an opportunity for anyone to poison her food. I could be wrong there, but nobody really could have foreseen Peko volunteering to guard the case, and that the case would even need guarding. And nobody hands her a special tray of food. She just picks up a random plate of food.
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Mar 3, 2013 07:28
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kvltmanifesto posted:You guys sure are freaking out about menstruation for no reason, huh? I think it's a pretty valid theory, especially with Nagito's comment after Peko left. It's not really that valid. Consider Nidai's reason for having the exact same blue face and sickness, which is equally as personal and embarassing (and possibly a lot more relevant).
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Mar 3, 2013 07:30
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Joenen posted:I hate to ask this style of question but after reading these past few pages.... I thought this as well given Nagito's statement. I mostly don't want her to be a suspect because we've yet to learn anything about Kirigiri MK. II yet, I'm hoping she'll use that sword at some point and live up to her predecessor's namesake.
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Mar 3, 2013 07:31
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