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Tykero posted:And then casters will just hold swords. It massively limits whatever you do in terms of builds and cripples the variety the system in this game could have which is otherwise incredibly versatile. Ten to twenty points is just Laugh Out Loud, sorry. That will not let you safely do Maps. Getting carried by your buddies is not safely doing Maps. e: Perhaps another route is just nerfing all the defense talents, and then nerfing the damage all the mobs do. That would instantly make character building more interesting without changing the damage dynamics of the game. As it stands, somebody will probably calculate the optimal path on the skill tree soon, that gives you the most mathematical defense.
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Mar 3, 2013 04:42
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Been playing this on and off since the open beta. Took me a little while to kinda get the hand of how the passive trees worked and what to look for. I've been trying to think of some slightly unorthodox builds, just so I'm not playing a carbon copy of someone else's idea from the forums. After doing a bit of experimenting I though I'd try a fire staff templar. I know fire is considered a bit weak right now, but it sounded fun to try anyhow. I've only gotten as far as a2 normal but it has been pretty fun. Here's what I'm sort of aiming at eventually (I know using all 120 points isn't entirely realistic, but I figured I'd use them all up) Firestaff Templar I'm not entirely sure on all the skills and support gems yet, I've just been picking stuff up as I play through. Really enjoying sweep and infernal blow, and I found an Iron Will I linked to Firestorm which I've been using.
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Mar 3, 2013 04:50
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Read posted:
Man I need that thing for my goofy 2H build.  it's glorious.
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Mar 3, 2013 04:53
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benisntfunny posted:Glad they got stricter on the security because I sort of like my characters. Ugh, they got mine in time and changed the email, that makes me sad.
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Mar 3, 2013 05:12
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How about support gems that give you defensive buffs and are typed Melee so good luck using that mr. caster/archer face.
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Mar 3, 2013 05:21
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Am I the only one who thinks end game damage is fine besides rhoas/shield chargers/alchemists? The only time my hp spikes these days is when I get caught by those mobs. I play a 188% hp armor based sweep marauder, so I am basically the definition of melee. I've done a ton of maps too, albeit I avoid most of the "monsters deal % more damage as <element>" maps. VVV I'm not even sure how you would go about fixing melee being inherently in more danger than ranged because the passive tree doesn't really lend itself to an easy "barbarians take 30% less damage" fix. I guess you could implement new defensive abilities that are geared towards mitigating physical damage, but then the ranged guys would just use it as well. Twist And Pout! fucked around with this message at 05:39 on Mar 3, 2013 |
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Mar 3, 2013 05:34
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NecroMonster posted:How about support gems that give you defensive buffs and are typed Melee so good luck using that mr. caster/archer face. Because that wouldn't really make sense. It happens when you... Link it to a melee gem? Okay, I can spare two gem slots for that. It happens when you use the skill? That sounds really weird for an implementation.
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Mar 3, 2013 05:36
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sentrygun posted:Because that wouldn't really make sense. It happens when you... Link it to a melee gem? Okay, I can spare two gem slots for that. It happens when you use the skill? That sounds really weird for an implementation. Just make them short duration non-stacking buffs on hit/attack. Like the defense buff you get from Concentrate in Diablo 2.
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Mar 3, 2013 05:55
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It's also not a very good idea to force melee to take something to be useful. The problem is that if it's either a node or a passive gem, it's still making you waste a resource to take it and thus makes ranged builds better just by virtue of not having a tax they have to meet. There's probably a good way for them to implement it without it being at a stupid cost, and they might do so later on.
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Mar 3, 2013 06:01
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Tykero posted:And then casters will just hold swords. You can play whatever you want and crush the hell out of normal and then pretty easily sail up through act2 cruel and then you get to the end of a3 cruel and find out that your build is nonviable unless you have a shitload of defense and a ranged attack. I've played tons of builds and the only ones to sail through merciless are ranged defensive builds. It's pretty sad that the most reliable way to make pretty much any character is to just ignore everything and take a shitload of life.
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Mar 3, 2013 06:04
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sentrygun posted:It's also not a very good idea to force melee to take something to be useful. The problem is that if it's either a node or a passive gem, it's still making you waste a resource to take it and thus makes ranged builds better just by virtue of not having a tax they have to meet. There's probably a good way for them to implement it without it being at a stupid cost, and they might do so later on. The only other real option is bake some sort of short duration defensive buff into all melee attacks. This avoids a support gem or passive skill tax. They could stick 30% reduced damage onto all str melee attacks, and 30% chance to dodge attacks and spells onto dex attacks, or some other buffs. But, because of the way the active skill system works you've pretty much got to tie your defense bonus right to use of the skills themselves, or you'll either have a skill point tax, or loving spell casters/ranged using the defensive bonuses too. You can't tie it directly into class either.
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Mar 3, 2013 06:07
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Lord Humongus posted:Ugh, they got mine in time and changed the email, that makes me sad. Was your email account using the same password as your PoE account? Hacking/compromising peoples video game accounts is a pretty big industry in China. If they ever gain access to your account for one game or service, make sure you change everything else that uses the same password, because that username/password combination will be attempted on every big multiplayer game with tradeable items and email provider from here on out.
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Mar 3, 2013 06:08
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NecroMonster posted:The only other real option is bake some sort of short duration defensive buff into all melee attacks. This avoids a support gem or passive skill tax. They could stick 30% reduced damage onto all str melee attacks, and 30% chance to dodge attacks and spells onto dex attacks, or some other buffs. But, because of the way the active skill system works you've pretty much got to tie your defense bonus right to use of the skills themselves, or you'll either have a skill point tax, or loving spell casters/ranged using the defensive bonuses too. You can't tie it directly into class either. This isn't some hacked together mod of a game, GGG made the thing. They can code something specific to make it so that proper melee fighters get some kind of defensive bonus if they really want to, it doesn't have to be weirdly integrated into how skills normally work.
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Mar 3, 2013 06:09
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I think ranged supremacy is just the price you pay for having so much freedom in character builds. v vI think the more pressing concern is the extreme imbalance between offense and defense mid to late game. Luckily that can be fixed easily: decrease mob damage, greatly increase mob health and buff damage increasing nodes. This would take some of the focus off of equipment and put it on your build while also making damage more important so you can take stuff out before it wears you down.
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Mar 3, 2013 06:13
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AVeryLargeRadish posted:I think ranged supremacy is just the price you pay for having so much freedom in character builds. v This is my thought too. More mob health, less damage dealt. Melee abilities should hit harder than ranged. Over the course of a fight, a melee fighter will kill a mob faster, resulting in less damage taken. Example: Mob: 1000 Health 200 DPS Ranged: 200 DPS Melee: 250 DPS In theory the Ranged takes 1000 damage while killing the mob, but the melee only takes 800. It doesn't really work like that, since ranged tend to be able to avoid hits more easily, and kite more easily. GGG could probably make it work though. It would mean that the best defense is a good offense, which, you know, is a thing.
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Mar 3, 2013 06:18
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aeverous posted:It massively limits whatever you do in terms of builds and cripples the variety the system in this game could have which is otherwise incredibly versatile. Ten to twenty points is just Laugh Out Loud, sorry. That will not let you safely do Maps. Getting carried by your buddies is not safely doing Maps. I am soloing maps right now (level 70) with 22 points in "defensive" nodes, without any real issue. Ten~twenty points was a low estimate, I admit. Twenty to thirty is probably a safer bet, depending on your build's risk factors. Edit, from passives: 136% health, +50 health, +16% chaos resist (1 point), +51% Energy Shield, +25% ES CD Recovery, +36% Evasion Rating, +20% Elemental Resist Tykero fucked around with this message at 07:15 on Mar 3, 2013 |
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Mar 3, 2013 07:08
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The solution I always thought would be ideal would be to institute something for physical damage in the same vein as shock/burn/freeze for elemental damage, since melee damage tends to be primarily physical. On crit, reduce the damage dealt by the target sort of like enfeeble. Then sprinkle a few passives similar to Static Blows around the templar/marauder/duelist areas that increase the effect's duration/reduce the threshold/give a flat percentage chance to cause the effect on hit with physical damage (potentially melee only?), and add a flat chance to apply it to a few skills. It would be a great replacement to the knockback on Heavy Strike. Who the hell wants knockback on a single target melee ability?
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Mar 3, 2013 07:30
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AVeryLargeRadish posted:I think ranged supremacy is just the price you pay for having so much freedom in character builds. v The problem with this thinking is that ranged/casters simply have far more choice in skills, on top of being far away from things, and having access to all the same passives. Melee is going to need something close to the same depth of choice before it'll be be feasible to really balance the two out anyway.
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Mar 3, 2013 07:46
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Vanguard Warden posted:The solution I always thought would be ideal would be to institute something for physical damage in the same vein as shock/burn/freeze for elemental damage, since melee damage tends to be primarily physical. On crit, reduce the damage dealt by the target sort of like enfeeble. Then sprinkle a few passives similar to Static Blows around the templar/marauder/duelist areas that increase the effect's duration/reduce the threshold/give a flat percentage chance to cause the effect on hit with physical damage (potentially melee only?), and add a flat chance to apply it to a few skills. It would be a great replacement to the knockback on Heavy Strike. Who the hell wants knockback on a single target melee ability? I was wondering earlier today why the hell heavy strike had knockback, right after I managed to use it to push a boss right into a loving wall, where he stopped moving, and became untargetable, unhittable... at about 3% health. It was useful when killing the bandits though, as it knocked the chick that summons new minions from the pot so far away that the newly summoned minions don't bother wandering over to join the fight.
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Mar 3, 2013 07:48
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NecroMonster posted:The problem with this thinking is that ranged/casters simply have far more choice in skills, on top of being far away from things, and having access to all the same passives. Melee is going to need something close to the same depth of choice before it'll be be feasible to really balance the two out anyway. I agree that melee needs more skill variety. I was just saying that I don't think you can ever get away from the inherent advantage of range without restricting build choices in a significant way, and I think the developers want to avoid doing that.
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Mar 3, 2013 08:52
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I'm making a new char, is spark+fork or freezing pulse+LMP considered better? I've read that either will work even endgame?
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Mar 3, 2013 09:51
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Haerc posted:I'm making a new char, is spark+fork or freezing pulse+LMP considered better? I've read that either will work even endgame? There's tons of freezing pulse builds, almost every class has one. Spork is another fairly common build as well. Yes they will both work endgame. Can't really say which is better, but most spork builds tend to be dual totem, while FP is casted. But as always, it's totally up to you.
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Mar 3, 2013 10:09
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Eh, I guess I've got a quality FP I might as well use... Or I could use spark, then add fork at 12, and switch over to FP+LMP at 19. Shrug, we will see.
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Mar 3, 2013 11:19
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 FP+LMP and a Spork Totem
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Mar 3, 2013 11:59
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I was actually planning on spell totem+skeletons for survivability, but who knows, I haven't even started the char yet.
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Mar 3, 2013 12:26
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If the problem is that everyone grabs all of the hp nodes all of the time, and they have no qualms about flying all over the skill grid to make the same couple of characters with each class, how do you think it might shake out if they were to completely remove HP% nodes and instead, just give everyone +2% hp for every non-stat node they take? Maybe +1% for every non-stat node they take outside of their class area?
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Mar 3, 2013 13:52
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Kersch posted:If the problem is that everyone grabs all of the hp nodes all of the time, and they have no qualms about flying all over the skill grid to make the same couple of characters with each class, how do you think it might shake out if they were to completely remove HP% nodes and instead, just give everyone +2% hp for every non-stat node they take? Maybe +1% for every non-stat node they take outside of their class area? Because going all around the passive tree in a crazy manner is fun.
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Mar 3, 2013 14:15
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I do admit, the whole "You didn't get enough HP nodes. Sleep now in the fire!" surprise the game springs on you at the beginning of act 3 is kind of a dick move. I have two items boosting my health by a large margin, two sets of percent dense HP nodes and I got the bandit HP reward and I'm still savoring that painful shotgun blast of pain now and then.
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Mar 3, 2013 15:03
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I just jumped into this and love it. It's a really pretty game and works fluidly, did not expect that. The only complaint I have is that I can't really "feel" when and if my hits connect - is there any way to turn on damage numbers over the enemies' heads? I have absolutely no idea how anything works however, it's beautifully confusing. I kinda figured out the skill gem levelling system, the passive skill board still boggles my mind however. This seems to me like one of the games where you can screw up your character royally whithout even noticing, especially if you've got no idea what you're doing in the beginning - I've got the nagging feeling that I've already screwed it up at level 7. Could anyone give me any tips on where to take a Templar to at least make that moment come as late as possible? From what I've gathered, melee basically sucks but I'm playing with a Ranger and a Witch and it just seems common sense to me that there should be something with a shield and a stick between them and the undead hordes. The only thing I absolutely need to be able to be doing is shoot lightning, it's an acquired taste.
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Mar 3, 2013 15:20
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Fluegel posted:I just jumped into this and love it. It's a really pretty game and works fluidly, did not expect that. The only complaint I have is that I can't really "feel" when and if my hits connect - is there any way to turn on damage numbers over the enemies' heads? I was looking at a build earlier that's basically what you want. Templar with mace/shield that uses Lightning Strike to shoot lightning. http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/82518 [edit] I have no idea if it sucks or not. I just was going to try it eventually.
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Mar 3, 2013 15:37
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Don't worry about screwing up a character. Allowing currency to drop at any level makes it much more fun than D3's slog to get to max level. Getting to the high levels means nowhere near as much as it does in D3 or other online games.
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Mar 3, 2013 16:02
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Fluegel posted:I just jumped into this and love it. It's a really pretty game and works fluidly, did not expect that. The only complaint I have is that I can't really "feel" when and if my hits connect - is there any way to turn on damage numbers over the enemies' heads? The devs have said they're working on that feature.
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Mar 3, 2013 16:04
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Hand Row posted:Don't worry about screwing up a character. Allowing currency to drop at any level makes it much more fun than D3's slog to get to max level. Getting to the high levels means nowhere near as much as it does in D3 or other online games. Yeah, that's been my take on the game -- frankly I have yet to get out of act 2 on normal; I'm too busy trying variations out while collecting gear and gems and currency to hand off to later, better thought out characters. It definitely rewards iterative refinement as an approach.
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Mar 3, 2013 17:38
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Just bought an 89% Surgeon's Granite Flask of Iron Skin for a chaos orb, that was a good trade right? I thought someone here sold one for a stupid amount. Speaking of flasks, does anyone know if there's a program that can read the state of a single pixel on your screen? I'd love to script a program to basically eyeball my HP bar and spam instant-recovery potions if it sees a pixel at the 25% level is black instead of red.
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Mar 3, 2013 18:38
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Zero VGS posted:Speaking of flasks, does anyone know if there's a program that can read the state of a single pixel on your screen? Your eyes & brain.
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Mar 3, 2013 18:40
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forge posted:I think I'll have a extra.. here is what I am taking, running the same build I did today with ek/fire. Check the shadow tree on any of my trade notes listed and it's yours. I'm only picking up lmp ll etc because those are simply the most valuable. But if there is a faster casting in any of those let me know tomorrow afternoon when we start and I'll save it for you. I'm on IRC and Mumble now until the race starts. I can probably use one of those hastes. For your added fire on merciless (Mercy Mission), I can probably grab you it earlier, if you can pick up faster casting there.
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Mar 3, 2013 19:11
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I've read on the forums that fire witches tend to drop off in effectiveness compared to ice and lightning builds. Does any have any suggestions on good fire builds? I'm having so much fun on my level 8 character with fireball that I want to keep up with it, or is it not really worth it in the end?
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Mar 3, 2013 19:18
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Here is my proposed dual totem gmp fireball Marauder build with spectres (70+) and dual curses (flammability and enf) At 52: http://tinyurl.com/ac7lxqr I did it this way because marauder starts with easy access to health, totem area, and templar area. I dip into templar and grab the good ele stuff then head to witch for fire/curses. After 52 I can take another 40% health from templar for 7 points or so. And after I take more hp I will start taking minion life and damage nodes in the witch area to buff the spectres i'm going to run with the totems. I might end up doing zombies but so far I'm shooting for spectre and totems. At 52 it will be 97% in hp nodes. I don't like CI so I didn't build for it, this gives me more gear selection options so I won't even notice having to wear bones of ullr (for the +1 spectre later in the build). Sterling_Archer fucked around with this message at 19:42 on Mar 3, 2013 |
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Mar 3, 2013 19:25
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Random Nightfall posted:Yeah, that's been my take on the game -- frankly I have yet to get out of act 2 on normal; I'm too busy trying variations out while collecting gear and gems and currency to hand off to later, better thought out characters. It definitely rewards iterative refinement as an approach. Totally agreed-- I think I've rolled maybe 20 or 25 characters since OB started, and so far only one has made it into Cruel, my fire summoner witch.
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Mar 3, 2013 19:39
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whypick1 posted:The devs have said they're working on that feature. I can hardly wait for floating damage to be implemented. Hopefully they choose something that pops out in a unique manner. Damage numbers popping out can have a similar sort of effect on the experience that loot popping out has. Oddly, it was one of my favorite little quirks of Ragnarok Online...crappy as that game is overall.
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