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Supreme Allah posted:The appeal is Robert Downey Jr. Exactly. Had they cast anyone else (like the guy from the OC as was rumored) the film would have been a enormous flop.
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Mar 7, 2013 04:27
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Rhyno posted:Exactly. Had they cast anyone else (like the guy from the OC as was rumored) the film would have been a enormous flop. Tom Cruise was rumored too, and Clive Owen right? Either of those guys would have been decent helmers. But yeah, probably wouldn't have been as good as RDJ.
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Mar 7, 2013 04:56
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Travis343 posted:e: Anyway the comic book Mandarin is a ridiculously out-of-date racist caricature and they need to stay as far away from it as possible. I'm kind of shocked they're using the name "Mandarin" in the film at all. 2:1 odds that at some point Tony says something to the effect of "but you aren't even Chinese!"
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Mar 7, 2013 05:00
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Rhyno posted:Exactly. Had they cast anyone else (like the guy from the OC as was rumored) the film would have been a enormous flop. I can't even picture a version with anyone other than him. Not to slight Jon Favreau or anyone else involved in that movie, I just feel like it would've been conceptually different almost from the ground up.
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Mar 7, 2013 05:02
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Rhyno posted:Exactly. Had they cast anyone else (like the guy from the OC as was rumored) the film would have been a enormous flop. See: The Green Lantern MantisToboggan posted:That's true, but Iron Man's appeal is easy to see even outside the films; he's a brilliant, wealthy playboy who uses high-tech armor to fight bad guys. It's a simple concept that works. There's almost no superhero comics for which this isn't true, though. All I mean is The Mandarin is not a particularly memorable or distinctive character even for people who read comics, they can do whatever they want with the character and almost certainly come up with something better than the character in the comics.
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Mar 7, 2013 05:02
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Cardboard Box A posted:2:1 odds that at some point Tony says something to the effect of "but you aren't even Chinese!" Well of course, wouldn't want to lose out on that sweet, sweet international box office.
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Mar 7, 2013 05:03
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LtKenFrankenstein posted:I can't even picture a version with anyone other than him. Not to slight Jon Favreau or anyone else involved in that movie, I just feel like it would've been conceptually different almost from the ground up. Favreau is 99% of the reason we got RDJ. I'm fairly certain Adam loving Brody was in the running before Downey was tapped.
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Mar 7, 2013 05:06
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:See: The Green Lantern Fraction did a really good job with Mandarin in the Invincible Iron Man Annual #1 that he did, but I never read much of his IIM after that so I don't know if he squandered it or not (he probably did).
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Mar 7, 2013 05:13
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Rhyno posted:Favreau is 99% of the reason we got RDJ. I'm fairly certain Adam loving Brody was in the running before Downey was tapped. While I didn't like Iron Man 2 much at all, I think Jon Favreau's directing in the first Iron Man is really underrated. Everyone gives all the credit to RDJ, but the improv-heavy dialogue-driven style of the film was a really bold choice by Favreau and one that worked amazingly well. It's almost not surprising that Iron Man 2 was such a huge letdown because the vibe in the first one really feels like they caught lightning in a bottle.
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Mar 7, 2013 05:16
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LtKenFrankenstein posted:While I didn't like Iron Man 2 much at all, I think Jon Favreau's directing in the first Iron Man is really underrated. Everyone gives all the credit to RDJ, but the improv-heavy dialogue-driven style of the film was a really bold choice by Favreau and one that worked amazingly well. It's almost not surprising that Iron Man 2 was such a huge letdown because the vibe in the first one really feels like they caught lightning in a bottle. Wasn't he forced to do that though because the script wasn't finished, despite them already shooting scenes? Thought I read/heard that somewhere.
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Mar 7, 2013 05:17
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Rhyno posted:Favreau is 99% of the reason we got RDJ. I'm fairly certain Adam loving Brody was in the running before Downey was tapped. Favreau actually wanted to cast an unknown for Tony until RDJ blew him away with an audition. teagone posted:Wasn't he forced to do that though because the script wasn't finished, despite them already shooting scenes? Thought I read/heard that somewhere. When they started shooting, only the first act (through Stark's escape from the cave) was locked down, everything else was up in the air. So, yeah, there was a lot of improv done. Jeff Bridges is on the record as saying that he and RDJ were working from scene outlines, and they'd sit down with Favreau and work out what the hell they were actually going to do. Timby fucked around with this message at 05:24 on Mar 7, 2013 |
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Mar 7, 2013 05:21
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teagone posted:Wasn't he forced to do that though because the script wasn't finished, despite them already shooting scenes? Thought I read/heard that somewhere. If that's true, that makes it more impressive, not less.
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Mar 7, 2013 05:22
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GonSmithe posted:Fraction did a really good job with Mandarin in the Invincible Iron Man Annual #1 that he did, but I never read much of his IIM after that so I don't know if he squandered it or not (he probably did). Yeah the Kim Jong Il pastiche was neat but that's the only good story I can recall.
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Mar 7, 2013 05:28
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I'm not much of a fan of Matt Fraction's run, but the Daniel and Charles Knauf run had a really cool modern Mandarin story that also ties in with Extremis. I wonder if the new movie takes anything from it.
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Mar 7, 2013 05:31
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LtKenFrankenstein posted:If that's true, that makes it more impressive, not less. Jeff Bridges posted:"Jon dealt with it so well," Bridges continues. "It freaked me out. I was very anxious. I like to be prepared. I like to know my lines, man, that's my school. Very prepared. That was very irritating, and then I just made this adjustment. It happens in movies a lot where something's rubbing against your fur and it's not feeling right, but it's just the way it is. You can spend a lot of energy bitching about that or you can figure out how you're going to do it, how you're going to play this hand you've been dealt. What you can control is how you perceive things and your thinking about it. So I said, ‘Oh, what we're doing here, we're making a $200 million student film. We're all just fuckin' around! We're playin'. Oh, great!' That took all the pressure off. ‘Oh, just jam, man, just play.' And it turned out great!" The stars and planets aligned for the first Iron Man movie.
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Mar 7, 2013 06:48
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Timby posted:Favreau actually wanted to cast an unknown for Tony until RDJ blew him away with an audition. I know this, but the studio was against it because of his past.
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Mar 7, 2013 06:50
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Rhyno posted:I know this, but the studio was against it because of his past. I feel like his past was one of the biggest reasons I was interested in seeing him play Stark in the first place. He's Hollywood's favorite drug addict playing comicdom's favorite drunk.
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Mar 7, 2013 07:30
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Happy Noodle Boy posted:The stars and planets aligned for the first Iron Man movie. The fact that Jeff Bridges just said 'man' like that makes me really happy
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Mar 7, 2013 09:19
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MantisToboggan posted:Yeah, I don't know much about Iron Man villains but a Chinese stereotype who uses rings from a space dragon's UFO doesn't seem that marketable to me, so I see why Marvel is scaling him back. From the new trailer he seems a lot like the comic book version of Ra's Al Ghul, which is fine by me. Awful racist caricature aside I do like the idea that Iron Mans big bad is a guy who uses magic/technology so advanced its practically magic.
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Mar 7, 2013 09:27
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Rough Lobster posted:The fact that Jeff Bridges just said 'man' like that makes me really happy He actually is "The Dude".
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Mar 7, 2013 09:43
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der juicen posted:He actually is "The Dude". Bridges was on either The Daily Show or Colbert Report a few months ago and he was completely The Dude. It was more awkwardly terrible than funny, though.
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Mar 7, 2013 11:54
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LtKenFrankenstein posted:I'm not much of a fan of Matt Fraction's run, but the Daniel and Charles Knauf run had a really cool modern Mandarin story that also ties in with Extremis. I wonder if the new movie takes anything from it. Yes they had an awesome storyline with him, and it was more of him as an evil buisnessman and not Yellow Peril.
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Mar 7, 2013 14:26
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Baron von Eevl posted:I feel like his past was one of the biggest reasons I was interested in seeing him play Stark in the first place. He's Hollywood's favorite drug addict playing comicdom's favorite drunk. It's such a good idea because they don't need to depict it or explicitly say it at all because it's implied by the casting.
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Mar 7, 2013 14:37
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bobkatt013 posted:Yes they had an awesome storyline with him, and it was more of him as an evil buisnessman and not Yellow Peril. China as a looming industrial/business powerhouse is pretty much the new Yellow Peril, yo.
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Mar 7, 2013 15:00
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der juicen posted:He actually is "The Dude". In my mind, the Marvel Movie Universe is the same one as The Big Lebowski. After losing one of his best friends, The Dude decides it's time to stop being such a bum. He finally takes that one class he is missing and finishes his MBA, calls up an old family friend, and starts out as some random VP at Stark Enterprises, and just works the way up through connections.
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Mar 7, 2013 15:10
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bobkatt013 posted:Yes they had an awesome storyline with him, and it was more of him as an evil buisnessman and not Yellow Peril. If it is the version where he grafted the rings to his back and spine and looked modern....yeah that was pretty cool.
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Mar 7, 2013 18:14
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Gatts posted:If it is the version where he grafted the rings to his back and spine and looked modern....yeah that was pretty cool. Yep. It was written by the Knauf who also created Carnivale.
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Mar 7, 2013 19:40
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Veib posted:Bridges was on either The Daily Show or Colbert Report a few months ago and he was completely The Dude. It was more awkwardly terrible than funny, though. This but on Wait Wait Don't Tell Me.
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Mar 7, 2013 20:11
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LtKenFrankenstein posted:While I didn't like Iron Man 2 much at all, I think Jon Favreau's directing in the first Iron Man is really underrated. Everyone gives all the credit to RDJ, but the improv-heavy dialogue-driven style of the film was a really bold choice by Favreau and one that worked amazingly well. It's almost not surprising that Iron Man 2 was such a huge letdown because the vibe in the first one really feels like they caught lightning in a bottle. The action scenes are pretty boring though. Iron Man is one of the few super hero movies where the movie stops being good as soon as the hero suits up and starts to beat up bad guys.
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Mar 7, 2013 20:26
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Alhazred posted:The action scenes are pretty boring though. Iron Man is one of the few super hero movies where the movie stops being good as soon as the hero suits up and starts to beat up bad guys. I respectfully disagree; the War Machine/Iron Man fist-fight aside, the suited combat in Iron Man 1 and 2 is consistently awesome.
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Mar 7, 2013 20:28
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Alhazred posted:The action scenes are pretty boring though. Iron Man is one of the few super hero movies where the movie stops being good as soon as the hero suits up and starts to beat up bad guys. What the hell? The Afghanistan scene from the first one not to mention the Mk 1 scene?
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Mar 7, 2013 21:51
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I loving love what trailer for this movie seems to be setting up. Tony's actually growing and changing as a character, and it's following up that character after Avengers. It feels like you had Tony start off as a dude making changes in his life to improve himself and the world in the first movie. Then with the second movie, you have him dealing with the effects of these changes, and the responsibility and threats that come with it. Then you have Avengers, where it's like "OK, I'm Iron Man, I've got these capabilities, poo poo's happening, I'm gonna be a hero and avenge the poo poo out of things from now on." So now THIS movie is "OK, there's a threat on the country! TONY! TONY HEY TONY YOU'RE A HERO NOW HEY TONY WHERE'S IRON MAN TO SAVE US ISN'T THAT WHAT YOU DO?" and Tony's gotta put up with this poo poo and the Mandarin is all "Hey gently caress YOU Iron Man!" and Iron Man's all "Hey gently caress YOU Mandarin I really don't need all this poo poo god dammit!" and Tony's just been going Batman-crazy building a bajillion suits for all kinds of purposes including ways to beat the poo poo out of his friends and  Just very promising stuff, is what I'm saying.
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Mar 7, 2013 22:07
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Jamesman posted:It feels like you had Tony start off as a dude making changes in his life to improve himself and the world in the first movie. Then with the second movie, you have him dealing with the effects of these changes, and the responsibility and threats that come with it. Stark doesn't change at all in Iron Man 2, that's (among the) reason(s) the film sucks. It sets him up to realize his achievements are built on a dishonest foundation, that his hubris is endangering his life, and he isn't really solving any problems - indeed he's hardly doing enough good to make up for all the harm he's done before - then it discards all that and it turns out his dad was a wizard-saint and all the people he worked with were just jealous jerks and Iron Man rules and he was right all along.
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Mar 7, 2013 22:19
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IM2 was like the exact same arc he had in IM1. He starts out a smug dickbag who then goes through some poo poo, gets taken down a few pegs and has to learn to be selfless/care about others/etc. etc. etc. It just felt like a retread. At least in Avengers it seemed like he'd made some progress.
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Mar 7, 2013 22:44
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DeimosRising posted:Stark doesn't change at all in Iron Man 2, that's (among the) reason(s) the film sucks. It sets him up to realize his achievements are built on a dishonest foundation, that his hubris is endangering his life, and he isn't really solving any problems - indeed he's hardly doing enough good to make up for all the harm he's done before - then it discards all that and it turns out his dad was a wizard-saint and all the people he worked with were just jealous jerks and Iron Man rules and he was right all along. Yeah, I forget which site ran it but after the movie came out someone wrote an article where they tried to make sense of what Iron Man II's plot was in an earlier treatment before all the SHIELD stuff was jammed in there. The crux of the idea was that Tony's dad actually had screwed Venko's dad out of the plans and Tony's growth came from realizing that and taking responsibility, but that because Marvel wanted Howard Stark in Captain America villainizing him was nixed. Who knows if it was baseless or not, but it was a pretty convincing breakdown.
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Mar 7, 2013 23:07
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Jamesman posted:Tony's just been going Batman-crazy building a bajillion suits for all kinds of purposes including ways to beat the poo poo out of his friends This is really cool to me (and like you said, very Batman). After all the good he did, and the changes he goes through as a character to work with a team, the first thing Tony really thinks about once everyone's gone and he's back home is "Thor really crushed the poo poo out of my armor with his bare hands."
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Mar 7, 2013 23:08
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feedmyleg posted:Yeah, I forget which site ran it but after the movie came out someone wrote an article where they tried to make sense of what Iron Man II's plot was in an earlier treatment before all the SHIELD stuff was jammed in there. The crux of the idea was that Tony's dad actually had screwed Venko's dad out of the plans and Tony's growth came from realizing that and taking responsibility, but that because Marvel wanted Howard Stark in Captain America villainizing him was nixed. Who knows if it was baseless or not, but it was a pretty convincing breakdown. The set up for that plot certainly does seem to be there, and it would have opened up a lot of other avenues thematically. Most importantly, it would have given us reason to think we should question Tony himself and the value of his supercapitalism/neoliberal activism as a form of heroism. That what we got instead was a regressive view of morality as genetic and neoliberal capitalism as not just right or defensible but totally unquestionable is pretty sad.
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Mar 7, 2013 23:34
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How are you getting Tony as a neoliberal? Seems pretty conservative to me. It's sort of my one problem with the films. His private industry is so much better than the big evil government that he solves all of their problems, and they have to steal from him to keep up. Then he destroys half of a city cleaning up a mess he caused, and bullies politicians into pinning a medal on him. Tony's a Republican in these movies, dude. He's just more philanthropic in nature than most.
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Mar 8, 2013 00:11
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LividLiquid posted:How are you getting Tony as a neoliberal? Seems pretty conservative to me. It's sort of my one problem with the films. His private industry is so much better than the big evil government that he solves all of their problems, and they have to steal from him to keep up. Then he destroys half of a city cleaning up a mess he caused, and bullies politicians into pinning a medal on him. Sounds pretty neoliberal to me, dude. You may be thinking of progressives, or the modern usage of 'liberal.'
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Mar 8, 2013 00:18
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LividLiquid posted:How are you getting Tony as a neoliberal? Seems pretty conservative to me. It's sort of my one problem with the films. His private industry is so much better than the big evil government that he solves all of their problems, and they have to steal from him to keep up. Then he destroys half of a city cleaning up a mess he caused, and bullies politicians into pinning a medal on him. Many Republicans are neoliberal. Supporting world peace by buying Stark products is an extension of neoliberal philanthropy represented by such things as supporting breast cancer research by buying a particular model of electric mixer.
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Mar 8, 2013 00:19
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