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BrotherNone, how has the fund raising success of games like project eternity, waste land 2, and shadowrun affected publisher's role w/ companies like In-xile. Is there more interest now in their projects and products, along with a more equitable relationship? Or has the status quo remained unchange and remain so for the near/distant future.
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Mar 9, 2013 21:59
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Rinkles posted:If I'm understanding that right, it seems weird to me to cut up your goals after announcing them. Whatever works best, I guess. Future goals, most likely.
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Mar 9, 2013 23:19
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awesomepanda posted:BrotherNone, how has the fund raising success of games like project eternity, waste land 2, and shadowrun affected publisher's role w/ companies like In-xile. Is there more interest now in their projects and products, along with a more equitable relationship? Or has the status quo remained unchange and remain so for the near/distant future. Didn't one publisher try to capitalize on In-xile's name by making them fund their own project with kick starter while the publisher still got publishing rights somehow?
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Mar 9, 2013 23:22
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DrManiac posted:Didn't one publisher try to capitalize on In-xile's name by making them fund their own project with kick starter while the publisher still got publishing rights somehow? Asking, not making. And I think it was Obsidian who mentioned that story a few months ago. But yeah, either way, what a freaking joke.
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Mar 9, 2013 23:28
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Obsidian's. Since they're trying to maintain a good working relationship with publishers, we'll probably never know who.
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Mar 9, 2013 23:29
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http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2012/09/19/publishers-wanted-obsidian-to-use-kickstarter/quote:According to Obsidian Entertainment, the developer behind the Kickstarter smash success Project Eternity, publishers approached the developer prior to the Kickstarter asking them to do crowd-fund on their behalf.
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Mar 9, 2013 23:38
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Jesus Christ I think I'm beginning to understand Fargo's frustration a bit better.
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Mar 9, 2013 23:55
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The best thing is that he said "some publishers". Meaning that multiple publishers tried to pull that poo poo off, it's not just a particular dickhead one that rhymes with "hee-yay" or with "hack decision".
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Mar 10, 2013 00:07
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Publishers were assholes back when they provided a useful service. I'm not sure what they are now.
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Mar 10, 2013 04:23
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Such dickery. Too bad they hold all the bags of cash.
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Mar 10, 2013 08:51
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Schurik posted:Jesus Christ I think I'm beginning to understand Fargo's frustration a bit better. If that hadn't happened, I would probably have been disgusted with Fargo's videos too. As they have, I find I can't fault him for being so anti-publishers.
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Mar 10, 2013 11:09
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ErichZahn posted:Publishers were assholes back when they provided a useful service. In that they're not exactly unique.
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Mar 10, 2013 11:37
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http://d4ms.me/Y3tutoGeorge Ziets posted:
How long do Atari have the exclusive D&D license for?
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Mar 10, 2013 11:58
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coffeetable posted:http://d4ms.me/Y3tuto How long do Atari have the exclusive D&D license for? [/quote] They would also have to have BG rights which Atari will have for a much, much longer time still.
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Mar 10, 2013 12:08
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Double post.
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Mar 10, 2013 12:09
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Well, Overhaul Entertainment claims that they'll be able to make a BG3 if their updated versions of 1 and 2 sell. Hopefully they reach out to Ziets and let him write it if that happens. I can't find it right now, but he actually wrote a somewhat detailed explanation of how he would design BG3, and it was really awesome.
Dr. Video Games 0031 fucked around with this message at 12:17 on Mar 10, 2013 |
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Mar 10, 2013 12:14
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coffeetable posted:How long do Atari have the exclusive D&D license for? Zilkin posted:They would also have to have BG rights which Atari will have for a much, much longer time still. Raygereio fucked around with this message at 12:21 on Mar 10, 2013 |
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Mar 10, 2013 12:18
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:Well, Overhaul Entertainment claims that they'll be able to make a BG3 if their updated versions of 1 and 2 sell. Hopefully they reach out to Ziets and let him write it if that happens. I can't find it right now, but he actually wrote a somewhat detailed explanation of how he would design BG3, and it was really awesome. Trent Oster said that he doesn't think divine level BG3 campaign would work well, so they wouldn't be doing the way Ziets wants to anyway. Plus I really don't trust Overhaul with BG3 at all. They've done OK'ish job with BGEE, but I'd much rather see company like Obsidian or inXile make BG3 if it's ever made.
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Mar 10, 2013 12:21
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Zilkin posted:Trent Oster said that he doesn't think divine level BG3 campaign would work well, so they wouldn't be doing the way Ziets wants to anyway. Plus I really don't trust Overhaul with BG3 at all. They've done OK'ish job with BGEE, but I'd much rather see company like Obsidian or inXile make BG3 if it's ever made.
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Mar 10, 2013 13:00
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Apparently the additional content they're making for BG2 is going to be significantly larger than Throne of Bhaal, so who knows. Maybe they're gearing up into "new game mode" or something. I don't really have any expectations at all for the quality of their work, but I'd be a lot more confident if they hired a proven RPG designer like Ziets, but it seems they want to go in a different direction, which is disappointing.
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Mar 10, 2013 13:04
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For reference, this is where Ziets wants to go with BG3quote:I’ve always thought that the struggles of a new FR deity could be pretty interesting. Think about what the Bhaalspawn would be up against: 1) few or no followers in a setting where a god requires worship to survive, 2) no divine portfolio to speak of, and 3) a fortress / headquarters that is still floating somewhere in the Abyss – not friendly territory, even for an evil PC.
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Mar 10, 2013 14:21
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That sounds awesome. I'd always thought that I'd never play another Baldur's Gate game if they made one, just because I'm personally done with that story, but that sounds different enough to actually be interesting.
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Mar 10, 2013 14:40
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A few questions pop up, like "Well, what if you rejected the portfolio?", in which case you could be replaced by some new random character, or "Well, if you're good, how do you handle being the god of Murder? Especially Lawful good?" And what do your few remaining followers under Bhaal feel about that? Maybe you could twist the logic of your portfolio around until your followers all go around in broad daylight shoving duels onto evil people as a form of assassination, but I don't know. Or Spiritual Murder, where you troll evil people into giving up. Morrowind's legal assassins guild comes to mind.
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Mar 10, 2013 15:02
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Drifter posted:Brother None, I know you guys can't be adding too many cooks in the kitchen before poo poo starts to just break down and become inefficient, so by doubling and possibly tripling your game content how much longer development time do you foresee this taking? Are you guys hiring other artists and stuff as well to faster add assets to the game? Visuals we will get to down the line, and by then we might be talking about things that take more time. I leave those considerations to industry vets like Kevin and Brian. If they start suspecting goals can push back the release date, that will be mentioned in the stretch goals. GetWellGamers posted:As long as we're interrogating Brother None, I'd love to hear the emotional timeline of the first day, how long it took to go from "Here we go... Then it was just... "What?" "Huh?!" "HOLY CRAP!" The internal company mails were a lot of fun, haha. Zilkin posted:One concrete suggestion to BN would be KS update telling us something about that Crystal Dimension that was part of the 1.5 million stretch goal, maybe I missed it but I don't think anything has been said about it. We'll do more talking on locations but don't plan to focus on the Crystal Dimension. We've got specific locations and story elements in mind to talk about and would like to stick to our limits, mostly because Brian & co are extremely weary of launching any spoilers into the world. awesomepanda posted:BrotherNone, how has the fund raising success of games like project eternity, waste land 2, and shadowrun affected publisher's role w/ companies like In-xile. Is there more interest now in their projects and products, along with a more equitable relationship? Or has the status quo remained unchange and remain so for the near/distant future. Differs per company. We don't work with publishers anymore. We work with distributors, sure, which could be publishing houses doing distribution, but we don't work with them as publishers. That's us though, we're a small company and can pull this off. Double Fine and Obsidian still work with publishers and at their size they have little choice (their studios are too big to fund through Kickstarter alone). That said, if Obsidian goes to a publisher to negotiate an Eternity follow-up (if they so choose), you can imagine Obsidian is negotiating from a better position. I don't really know how much publisher reach-out there has been or what it's been like though. That's not really my area, and I obviously can't talk for Double Fine or Obsidian's experience. That story Feargus told sounds pretty typical for em, tho. Brother None fucked around with this message at 15:43 on Mar 10, 2013 |
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Mar 10, 2013 15:34
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" to "Hey, that's a nice initial response" to "Wow, look at it go!" to "Jesus, it's just not stopping" to "Holy gently caress, it hasn't slowed down!" to "
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Brother None posted:Visuals we will get to down the line, and by then we might be talking about things that take more time. I leave those considerations to industry vets like Kevin and Brian. 3D or 2.5D? Will Torment be visually inspired by Planescape: Torment or just thematically? Can we expect that the Unity-based technology developed for Wasteland 2 to be used as the foundation for Torment? Brother None posted:Differs per company. We don't work with publishers anymore. We work with distributors, sure, which could be publishing houses doing distribution, but we don't work with them as publishers. That's us though, we're a small company and can pull this off. You can also pull that off because Fargo is a very experienced publisher himself, so self-publishing (which is still publishing!) is in his wheelhouse. You don't need a publisher if you have the capabilities of a publisher in-house. Brother None posted:That story Feargus told sounds pretty typical for em, tho. Someone's always trying to make a bad deal for someone else. That's business. And that's why when you're negotiating a contract, you have to be on your toes. I don't fault publishers for trying to make the deals that they do. They're not villains, usually (see: Naughty Dog and Universal vs. thatgamecompany and Sony.) They're trying to get the best deals for their companies. And they're sometimes very competent at that. Sometimes they're really not! I fault developers when they walk blindly into a publishing relationship and/or when they don't hire the right people to watch out for their interests. But I think Fargo's criticism is more nuanced than "publishers make bad deals for developers." I think his argument is more that "publishers don't make the deals we want," especially today where metrics and Q Scores are everything.
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Mar 10, 2013 16:12
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Yes it's been announced already, they said that it would also use Unity as a base for Torment, and I see no reasons why they wouldn't bring some of the mechanics from W2 for that project as well
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Mar 10, 2013 17:12
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Twee as gently caress posted:Yes it's been announced already, they said that it would also use Unity as a base for Torment, and I see no reasons why they wouldn't bring some of the mechanics from W2 for that project as well Basically. Whatever makes sense. Like, the combat system will be different but may take some of WL2's on board. The dialog system will be totally different in presentation but will utilize some of the same principles beneath the hood. It will be visually inspired by PS:T, yes, we'll look to do a painterly style regardless of if we do 3D or 2D. Right now, we're planning to do 3D.
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Mar 10, 2013 17:35
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There's a community suggestion on your "forums" that talks about 2.5D, which is something I very much support. 3D with a fixed angle is great, as you can massively bump up the detail level and fidelity while essentially keeping the workload, asset generation and system requirements the same as rotatable 3D. It also allows the art direction and design to stay much more true to concept art. As there's probably going to be less combat than WL2 overall and that combat being less tactical (I doubt T:ToN is going to have a cover system), you also don't sacrifice anything on the gameplay or usability front. It also allows player and party models to have much higher detail level without standing out too much against a simple 3D background.
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Mar 10, 2013 17:57
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Brother None posted:Basically. Whatever makes sense. Like, the combat system will be different but may take some of WL2's on board. The dialog system will be totally different in presentation but will utilize some of the same principles beneath the hood. The difference between 2D and 3D isometric basically just the ability to pan the camera right? I would almost hope you would just go for 2D then, if that saved you guys some development resources to use elsewhere. As far as I know P:E is going for 2D too.
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Mar 10, 2013 18:25
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I hope they go with 2d also. Or 2,5D. 3D just doesn't allow as much detail, it never looks the same.
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Mar 10, 2013 18:39
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Zilkin posted:The difference between 2D and 3D isometric basically just the ability to pan the camera right? The production process is significantly different. 3D is rendered by the game as you play. 2D - in the style of Infinity Engine or Project Eternity - is rendered by us from high-quality 3D models, made into an "image" based on our camera angle, then "hand-painted" over, then implemented into the game engine with 3D models and effects overlaid with the usage of the 2D image overlaid by an ingame effects map. 2D in the style of Project Eternity is more expensive to than 3D, even full-rotation 3D like Wasteland 2.
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Mar 10, 2013 18:42
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Brother None posted:The production process is significantly different. 3D is rendered by the game as you play. 2D - in the style of Infinity Engine or Project Eternity - is rendered by us from high-quality 3D models, made into an "image" based on our camera angle, then "hand-painted" over, then implemented into the game engine with 3D models and effects overlaid with the usage of the 2D image overlaid by an ingame effects map. 2D in the style of Project Eternity is more expensive to than 3D, even full-rotation 3D like Wasteland 2. Isn't it possible that Numenera, with its even more wild and crazy vistas which I presume will limit the reuse of art assets, would be much better served by the hand-painting process than Wasteland 2, which consists of fairly reliable post-apocalyptic American objects? Example - make a table once in W2, and every other house belonging to a similar socioeconomical class can conceivably use the same table or a minor reskin of it. But if Numenera is anywhere as weird as it promises to be, one table may be made of what used to be a giant touchpad, another may be fashioned out of the bones and scales of a mutant beast, another may be half carbon fiber and half scrapwood. Surely that sort of one-off-maybe-two-off-at-best items are cheaper to paint over a basic 3D draft than to fully model in 3D?
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Mar 10, 2013 20:07
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NihilCredo posted:Isn't it possible that Numenera, with its even more wild and crazy vistas which I presume will limit the reuse of art assets, would be much better served by the hand-painting process than Wasteland 2, which consists of fairly reliable post-apocalyptic American objects? NihilCredo posted:Surely that sort of one-off-maybe-two-off-at-best items are cheaper to paint over a basic 3D draft than to fully model in 3D?
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Mar 10, 2013 20:16
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Not too bad, we are nearly $100,000 from getting what we all deserve and dreamed of, an apology for the Complete Book of Elves.
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Mar 11, 2013 02:35
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I am not joking when I say that a Monte Cook apology for Toughness ought to be a 2.75m goal or something. It would be not just for kicks, but more importantly to reassure us about his influence on Numanuma game design.
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Mar 11, 2013 08:10
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NihilCredo posted:I am not joking when I say that a Monte Cook apology for Toughness ought to be a 2.75m goal or something. It would be not just for kicks, but more importantly to reassure us about his influence on Numanuma game design. How is toughness any worse than AC or THAC-0 stuff, or any other thing I probably don't know about? I think this talks about toughness? Doesn't seem particularly terrible.
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Mar 11, 2013 08:27
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Drifter posted:How is toughness any worse than AC or THAC-0 stuff, or any other thing I probably don't know about? Toughness was a poo poo option by design. Its purpose was to make you feel smart for not taking it. I am not even exaggerating. That was the stated design goal.
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Mar 11, 2013 08:36
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Thankfully, both NWN and Pathfinder both fixed toughness and made it a very good feat.
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Mar 11, 2013 08:44
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NihilCredo posted:I am not joking when I say that a Monte Cook apology for Toughness ought to be a 2.75m goal or something. It would be not just for kicks, but more importantly to reassure us about his influence on Numanuma game design. What do we need to do to make this happen Brother None? Because I really want it to happen.
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Mar 11, 2013 08:50
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Drifter posted:How is toughness any worse than AC or THAC-0 stuff, or any other thing I probably don't know about? Basically 'look at this stupid newb that took toughness' baked into the rules which is a terrible thing to do to a player.
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Mar 11, 2013 09:16
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