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Miss Kalle posted:(I must point out that occasionally the music tended to drown out some of the speakers at points for me, mostly Nagito and Sonia. I understand if it's something that can't easily be fixed, though! And at least there are subs. Thanks for those, guys!) I will try going into the game's options and adjusting the voice/BGM volumes for the next update.
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Mar 14, 2013 14:26
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The thing I like most about the Counterargument Showdown is that it adds one of the more satisfying processes from Phoenix Wright to Dangan Ronpa - namely, pressing witnesses until they slip up and state something contradictory. It's great. Plus, as people said, it adds a nice sense of progression to an otherwise static discussion, and adds some sense of agency to other characters. Which is nice.
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Mar 14, 2013 14:32
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Fedule posted:The thing I like most about the Counterargument Showdown is that it adds one of the more satisfying processes from Phoenix Wright to Dangan Ronpa - namely, pressing witnesses until they slip up and state something contradictory. It's great. Plus, as people said, it adds a nice sense of progression to an otherwise static discussion, and adds some sense of agency to other characters. Which is nice. There's also the possibility of an online co-op feature in the future.
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Mar 14, 2013 14:35
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Phelddagrif posted:The fact that the knife was planted at all demonstrates that the murder was premeditated. They put glow-in-the-dark paint on the knife, not knowing that Togami had night-vision goggles. With everyone gathered together, it was very likely that SOMEONE would see the glowing paint during the blackout and investigate. Then it's just a matter of stabbing upwards through the floorboards with a skewer once they heard someone moving around above them. But the second part was my point: if Hanamura IS the murderer here, wouldn't he want to NOT discredit the knife, since he then could pin it on Nagito, who everyone knows was working there and would have plenty of opportunity to set it up?
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Mar 14, 2013 14:41
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Not gonna lie, when I saw Monomi actually swings back and forth in the background, I had to pause the video for a second because I just couldn't stop laughing. I'm already liking these trials a lot more than the ones from the first game. The new minigame (which also caught me completely by surprise) adds a lot more flow to the discussion, and nobody seems suddenly useless or extremely competent, at least out of character anyway.
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Mar 14, 2013 14:42
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Shocking news: Famitsu readers love them some SDR2 (and some other games too).
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Mar 14, 2013 14:49
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I'm just wondering how much Peko knows about what happened during the blackout - it's not too big a leap that Togami crawled under the table during the blackout, but she seems really sure about it. And I keep getting jarred with Ibuki's voice, I keep expecting it to be higher and more fitting towards her 'cheery' personality.
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Mar 14, 2013 14:51
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Taciturn Tactician posted:Nagito continues to be oddly removed from proceedings- for example, he gave Hinata an obvious hook with the "I think Togami knew ahead of time", but he didn't mention the letter directly even though he was there when it was discovered. Plus, he didn't go "you know what I'm talking about right Hinata" he just innocently asked if Hinata agreed with him. He also keeps purposefully introducing ideas but not actually arguing for them himself- for example, introducing "it's weird that he's under the table" but not commenting on "he was dragged there" until Hinata points it out. There's not really enough to go on to make any guesses about what he's up to, but I have a feeling he's not just concerned with getting out alive like most students. Of course, this is a good maneuver. If you already know a lot of the answers and there's no time limit, it's a lot more useful to see how other people derive and work with them. The trivial example is waiting for the criminal to gently caress up and give away a detail that screws them over. There's other examples where important details come from letting a conversation go rather than dominating it. Thus, as we see, the smarter, more logical people tend to moderate a discussion rather than dominate it. They watch where it flows, and work to get it on track if and when they need to. Hinato's doing the exact same thing. The interesting detail, though, is that we don't know how much he knows going in. In the first game, we knew that Togami and Kirigiri figured out a lot of the trials ahead of time (to a reasonable degree). As for Togami, we don't know if he knows much more than Nagito does, and Nagito, the character, hasn't put the evidence together into an answer yet. EDIT: Also, I find it amusing that Hiyoko called out Hanamura for making a double-entendre. Why? Because I honestly thought he was just thinking about food. He didn't seem to say it in a way that sounded lewd or like it had double meaning (of course, this is me trying to read intonations in a language I don't speak), he was just contemplating how weirdly calm he was in this situation. This event also stands out to me because if my impression is correct, it's indicative of quality writing. For a lot of the game, Hanamura's been our one-note pervy, dirty, skeevy character that's always making rude or out of place comments. Here, he's making a comment that could follow that line, but doesn't seem like it does. Basically, the writers did a good enough job convincing me that he's more than just a pervert that I didn't even think it was happening. Good job. Twiddy fucked around with this message at 15:04 on Mar 14, 2013 |
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Mar 14, 2013 14:52
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I loved 99% of this update.orenronen posted:
Not the best comeback. Does that work a lot better in Japanese? Speaking of which, dumb translation question for any of you who know the language.  What's the katakana in the middle there? I can sound out "ko ro shi a i" which looks like a loan word, but I can't identify what word it's supposed to be. "Close by" somehow?
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Mar 14, 2013 15:08
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slowbeef posted:
It's not a loanword - it's 殺し合い - "mutual killing".
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Mar 14, 2013 15:12
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slowbeef posted:Not the best comeback. Does that work a lot better in Japanese? It might not sound all that natural, but it's a hell of a lot more hardcore than my debate style.
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Mar 14, 2013 15:12
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Sometimes native Japanese words are written in katakana for emphasis because of the 'hard' feel of their strokes. Other uses can be for showing that people aren't natives and are pronouncing things 'strangely' even in everyday conversation.
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Mar 14, 2013 15:15
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slowbeef posted:Not the best comeback. To be frank, this was more the approach I disliked the least than the one I liked the most. The literal translation I got was "I WILL CUT DOWN THOSE WORDS". I've never been more aware of how many bullet-related idioms there are for rebutting an argument than the time I had to find a blade-related one.
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Mar 14, 2013 15:19
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orenronen posted:It's not a loanword - it's 殺し合い - "mutual killing". Tesseraction posted:Sometimes native Japanese words are written in katakana for emphasis because of the 'hard' feel of their strokes. Other uses can be for showing that people aren't natives and are pronouncing things 'strangely' even in everyday conversation. Well, arigato then. I'm dying for SDR2 to come out on iOS. I really want to see how they implement the sword debate stuff. Actually, how does this work on the PSP? Do you just move the analog stick up-down, side-to-side? It seems like this was made for a touch screen.
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Mar 14, 2013 15:21
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Fedule posted:To be frank, this was more the approach I disliked the least than the one I liked the most. The literal translation I got was "I WILL CUT DOWN THOSE WORDS". Well to be fair, I can't think of any alternative that doesn't involve a groan-worthy pun. Except something involving riposte but that's kind of a lame way to put it.
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Mar 14, 2013 15:25
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slowbeef posted:I'm dying for SDR2 to come out on iOS. I really want to see how they implement the sword debate stuff. I believe they might inplement the touchscreen.  I still don't actually understand the sword debate, though it's way more interesting than disco denial. Mahiru calling us out was pretty great too.
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Mar 14, 2013 15:27
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Was I the only one who got reminded of MGR during that cutting segment? Sure, it's not the most original idea, it's just that I just started playing ReVengeance, myself. And I bet that Peko's ultimate skill is tailor-made for that segment. In fact, I'm surprised that its debut wasn't against her.
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Mar 14, 2013 15:29
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Hm, yeah, if you want to keep with a strict blade metaphor, it's going to be hard to find something that isn't groan-worthy. You could make the blade connection slightly less explicit and go with something like "I will strike down this claim!", but I dunno. It does have the advantage of the metaphorical and the literal use both being fairly common, though.
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Mar 14, 2013 15:35
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Wow, it faced some rather tough competition on that list.
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Mar 14, 2013 15:40
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Wonderful update. "I’LL CUT THAT CLAIM TO PIECES!" was both awesome and hilarious as hell. I have to say that I preferred the old annotation subtitles. Both because the font was more consistent (here the subtitles randomly stretch and change size depending on the available space) and generally easier to look at (I'm just not a fan of Arial black as a subtitle typeface, or any other very bold face for that matter), and because it let me read the Japanese below if I bothered to. I recognize and thank for the effort, HelloWinter, but I hope you'd consider using a bit thinner font (even Arial bold would be great) and/or not stretching the text box in the future. Having it always in the same spot would be good too. doomfunk posted:This is pretty good but you're pushing these folds way too far. This is a heavy garment designed to obscure form of figure, it wouldn't pinch like that, especially not where you have those hard, hard creases. You're absolutely right. A kimono wouldn't crease up like that... unless it's way too big for the wearer, I suppose. However, I must say, that it's (honestly!) mostly intentional, because I initially specifically wanted to try drawing sharp cartoonish creases. It was only after that I noticed Lunar Suite's post and thought I'd just run with Saionji. Despite that, it really looks like I did overdo it. Better luck next time. Taciturn Tactician posted:Ibuki's "hahah wow that was a smart word I'm too dumb to say something like that!!!" seems like a hasty backpedal; possibly she's just putting on an act and is smarter than she's letting on. Oh, it's an act all right, but for the same reason a teenage girl usually acts a role, not because she has something sinister to hide. That one was more a joke at her own expense than a slip of the tongue.
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Mar 14, 2013 15:41
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Genaro posted:It's what Kirigiri did in the first game. At best, you could call it shady, at worst, you could say it's prompting the player to jump in, so that it doesn't just feel like you are watching everyone else solve the case around you. Kirigiri was also not just concerned with getting out alive. It's possible that Nagito's ulterior motive is just figuring out the situation like Kirigiri, but it's also possible that the game expects you to dismiss his behaviour as "oh, he's the Kirigiri for this game" and he's up to something else. Twiddy posted:This kind of occurred last game, and is actually part of an interesting difference in this trial. Last game, the brighter, more competent people (see Togami, Kirigiri) more or less let slip that they'd already figured most of it (or all of) out before the trial even begins. They also didn't interact with the trial, and saw how the students thought and acted, focused on what they said. Both Kirigiri and Togami unashamedly were testing people. Togami went as far as tampering with evidence to see if Naegi could figure things out. Kirigiri wasn't quite as ruthless, but she was clearly interested in sizing up the competition, and seeing if she could trust Naegi. Meanwhile, Nagito claims that he won't accept that there's mutual killing at all and extols the virtues of hope and sticking together, so if he's not lying about that he has no reason not to just reveal everything he knows in the spirit of co-operation. If he is telling the truth about that, then he must have some plan to trap monobear or prove that none of the students could have done it, or he knows who did it and is trying to hide it as long as possible hoping someone can prove that person innocent. Either way, he's not being completely upfront. Taciturn Tactician fucked around with this message at 15:44 on Mar 14, 2013 |
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Mar 14, 2013 15:42
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Just as a side-note, Oren, I noticed you haven't been editing in Fedule's bits about editing past the fifth one on the table of contents. Another thing that strikes me is how calm Hanamura is - this is the guy who was still on the fence about everything being a weird, 'not real' kinda thing an update ago. If he's not the culprit this chapter I look forward to how else he's going to develop. ApplesandOranges fucked around with this message at 15:59 on Mar 14, 2013 |
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Mar 14, 2013 15:54
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slowbeef posted:Actually, how does this work on the PSP? Do you just move the analog stick up-down, side-to-side? It seems like this was made for a touch screen. Okay, let me try explaining the mechanics in more details. This may go into the update as a note later: The bar separating Hinata and his opponent represents who dominates the conversation. It moves to the left when you slash arguments and to the right when you miss or ignore them. Since the arguments fly around the screen, you have to choose the timing and direction of your slashes carefully (you have a very limited amount of them per cycle). Slashing is done with the arrow buttons, and you can slash horizontally, vertically, or diagonally. This first instance is extremely easy - you can just keep slashing vertically, and you may miss a few and still win. Later, this becomes one of the most difficult minigames in DR2. Once the bar moves enough to the left, the conversation moves to the next stage: Hinata counters with an argument or question, and the opponent gets a new set of arguments, this time containing one or several weak points. You have to keep slashing the regular arguments (if you don't, the conversation may regress to the first stage), but be very careful not to slash the weak point arguments. Slashing on weak point arguments deals a lot of damage! Instead, you have to pick the correct Evidence Blade and push the triangle button when the correct weak point appears, which wins the argument and the minigame.
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Mar 14, 2013 15:55
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miscellaneous14 posted:Lot of hints being dropped here, maybe someone outside the group killed him, and whoever is "convicted" will just be taking the fall? That'd make this whole thing super-depressing. Y'know, when my mom passed away, I said 'I can't believe she's gone' but it wasn't me proclaiming my belief of a conspiracy that she had been replaced by a body double or had faked it all for life insurance. It was me still trying to come to terms with a tragedy and trying to wrap my brain around the concept of a world without her. If I had said 'I don't believe she's gone' then yeah you could take it like that. 'I can't believe this is happening' is an idiom and an expression of human emotion when something terrible or heavily unexpected has happened, not a subtle clue to a major conspiracy. Man, people are just stretching in here for any loving thing. It's a thread of Mr. Fantastics trying to capture the Junkos flame.
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Mar 14, 2013 16:04
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Exercu posted:Hm, yeah, if you want to keep with a strict blade metaphor, it's going to be hard to find something that isn't groan-worthy. "This refutation is HANZO STEEL!" "You're about to face the 'cut' of my jib!" "Your ice is diced!" "I'm a hot knife and your argument is butter... prepare to be toast!" "These quotes are cheesy and I'm the piano wire." More seriously you could use something a like a pun on 'insistence' if you want a subtle term. Or 'your line of thinking is wrong' to refer to lines. Frankly though "I'LL CUT YOUR CLAIM TO PIECES!" works fine for me, maybe I've just seen too many hilarious declarations in my time.
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Mar 14, 2013 16:05
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I think the killer outstepped Togami  It seems like the only reason the knife even exists underneath that table is to draw Togami's attention. With the lights out, the tablecloth draped back so it's visible, and the packing table glowing brightly in the dark, it gives the killer an easy way to expose the knife and draw Togami under the table. Then, presumably, Togami would be stabbed through the floorboards repeatedly to kill him. If the killer would have been able to drape the tablecloth back down, it's likely Togami's body wouldn't have even been found. Monobear turning the lights back on prevented this from being a missing persons case instead of a murder case. The only thing that I find worrying about this is how somebody would even access the area underneath the lodge. Gundam has this information right now, and once that comes out it'll be easier to figure out the who, but I feel like this is the way our killer would handle the how
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Mar 14, 2013 16:16
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Dickweasel Alpha posted:I think the killer outstepped Togami I WILL CUT YOUR CLAIM TO PIECES This requires the culprit to lift the tablecloth after the lights go out, exit the room, go under the floorboards and stab Togami. It requires incredible timing, especially since you have to sneak out of the room while Togami's wearing night vision, and you have to do all this in total darkness. I'm still on board the "Togami didn't see the knife right away" theory. I think he saw the original would-be-victim/would-be-killer going for the knife ("Oy! What are you doing! Stop it!"), interrupted the killer, went under the table to retrieve the knife, before getting stabbed to death by a skewer. So what I'm saying is, there was an original murder planned, using the blackout and the knife under the table, but someone else decided to kill the killer via the skewer. That requires the true culprit somehow knowing about both the blackout plan and where the knife is, which is where it gets tricky.
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Mar 14, 2013 16:33
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Exercu posted:Hm, yeah, if you want to keep with a strict blade metaphor, it's going to be hard to find something that isn't groan-worthy. "CUT THE BULLSHIT, [suspect]!" >slams fists into desk and looks menacing< It'd be way out of character for our hero. The current translation works fine even with the bad pun, and it's funny to imagine someone saying something so goofy anyway. It's like a kid trying to be a big shot lawyer (probably because he technically is trying to emulate a lawyer/investigator), but he's only seen those on TV dramas or something.
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Mar 14, 2013 16:43
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Dickweasel Alpha posted:I think the killer outstepped Togami "YOUR ARGUMENT IS DULL!" With the glow-in-the-dark tape, the knife could have been seen by anyone. For the killer to want to trap Togami specifically, they'd have to 1. know that Togami had night goggles and 2. NOT put glow-in-the-dark tape so only Togami could have seen it. I'm actually leaning more towards suspicion towards Peko at the moment, but I don't really think it's her, or if it is, I don't think she was working alone - maybe Peko and Nagito together, or just Hanamura.
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Mar 14, 2013 16:46
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You know, everyone seems so much more... competent in debating than the DR1 cast. DR1 trials can sometimes be a bit painful to watch because the arguments thrown around can be so obtuse, but here even the comic relief characters like Souda can create some fairly logical arguments. (compare "the culprit hid the body under the table" with "KIRIGIRI IS A GHOST") I like it.
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Mar 14, 2013 16:47
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blizzardvizard posted:You know, everyone seems so much more... competent in debating than the DR1 cast. DR1 trials can sometimes be a bit painful to watch because the arguments thrown around can be so obtuse, but here even the comic relief characters like Souda can create some fairly logical arguments. (compare "the culprit hid the body under the table" with "KIRIGIRI IS A GHOST") I like it. And that Souda was quite useful in the investigation, too.
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Mar 14, 2013 16:52
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Akane is still filling the dumb argument quota, but the other characters shoot her down instead of making the player do it. "Have you even been paying attention?" "Did you listen to a word he said?"
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Mar 14, 2013 16:54
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 D-did Hinata just get "You've got that Wrong!"-ed? I seriously love this new segment, and I can't wait for more of the cast to get their chance at these! They're going to have their own phrases too. As for the Blade pun, I really like "Cut the claim to pieces" although "Cut that out", while less powerful, feels more natural.
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Mar 14, 2013 17:02
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Those trial videos are really amazing. A huge thanks to everyone involved in making them. They make this LP really come to life. I'm incredibly glad this first trial isn't like DR1's, where the killer's name was written next to the body and we all just spent the rest of the chapter waiting to hear what we already 100% knew. There was just so much set-up to this murder that it's hard to believe anyone had the time to do it all without anyone seeing them. Taping the knife, setting the AC to turn on, plugging in the irons, stealing the skewer, stealing the tablecloth, getting under the floorboards with the table cloth, killing Togami, getting out from under the cottage, ditching the sheet *deep breath* It's a lot of steps. CaseyChu fucked around with this message at 17:21 on Mar 14, 2013 |
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Mar 14, 2013 17:19
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Taciturn Tactician posted:Ibuki and Nagito are both being a little suspicious. I don't think either of them is the murderer, but it seems like they're not being totally honest. Ibuki's "hahah wow that was a smart word I'm too dumb to say something like that!!!" seems like a hasty backpedal; possibly she's just putting on an act and is smarter than she's letting on. Ibuki is just trying to use humor to hide her nervousness. Although I found it hilarious that in the final video she's just standing there smiling the whole time. (I know it's because they don't update the characters until they say something, but it's still funny.) Nagito is suspicious, but he's always that way. Whether it's because he's doing the Kirigiri thing and trying to see how well Hinata can solve the case or whether he's doing a Togami (DR1 that is) and trying to see how smart everyone is so he can decide how to proceed with a future murder is something we'll have to worry about later. Plus it's the tutorial trial and he's our guide. We can't blame him for being our guide since it's for meta reasons really. It's also possible he's trying to stay under the radar somewhat since at some point someone will probably point out that he had access to the lodge first and could have set this up. When that happens he'll need someone competent to prove he didn't do it. And the 'Junko mushrooms' are really just anime mushrooms for someone that is depressed. Junko didn't come up with it so it's not hers and is not really a reference.
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Mar 14, 2013 17:21
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HangedManArcana posted:
It'd be funny if he actually was wrong at some point and someone else would have to point it out, though I suppose it wouldn't really work due to the minigame involved.
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Mar 14, 2013 17:26
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I really hope each character says it in a different way. I just want Nidai to shout in the middle of a trial "THAT'S BULLSHIT!"
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Mar 14, 2013 17:30
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slowbeef posted:So what I'm saying is, there was an original murder planned, using the blackout and the knife under the table, but someone else decided to kill the killer via the skewer. That requires the true culprit somehow knowing about both the blackout plan and where the knife is, which is where it gets tricky. I think this is why people were suspecting Nagito; he was prepping the house with Hanamura, which gave both of them plenty of time to set up this kind of accidental conspiracy. The air conditioner timer lets whoever isn't the blackout-plotter figure out exactly at what time the plan goes into effect, if they spotted the blackout-plotter messing with it. I went back and double-checked my recollections here, and the tablecloth is pulled down both before and after the blackout (they lift it to find Togami when Owari smells blood). So the only way Togami could see the glowing tape would be if someone moved the tablecloth in the dark, since if it remained down the glow would presumably still be invisible. That does make it seem more likely that Togami spotted someone going for the table rather than the knife itself. According to Koizumi's map, Nagito was the closest one to the Death Table at the moment of the blackout, which is another point against him. It's also just barely possible that it was an accident; Nagito (or someone) might have stumbled and seen the knife by accident, then gone for it and been accosted by Togami as a result. That would be pretty odd, though, because if that's the case how would the murderer have intended the glowing knife to be seen and lure a victim in the first place?
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Mar 14, 2013 17:32
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Exercu posted:Hm, yeah, if you want to keep with a strict blade metaphor, it's going to be hard to find something that isn't groan-worthy. You could make the blade connection slightly less explicit and go with something like "I will strike down this claim!", but I dunno. It does have the advantage of the metaphorical and the literal use both being fairly common, though. blizzardvizard posted:You know, everyone seems so much more... competent in debating than the DR1 cast. DR1 trials can sometimes be a bit painful to watch because the arguments thrown around can be so obtuse, but here even the comic relief characters like Souda can create some fairly logical arguments. (compare "the culprit hid the body under the table" with "KIRIGIRI IS A GHOST") I like it. Pester posted:Akane is still filling the dumb argument quota, but the other characters shoot her down instead of making the player do it. "Have you even been paying attention?" "Did you listen to a word he said?"
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Mar 14, 2013 17:36
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ApplesandOranges posted:"YOUR ARGUMENT IS DULL!" That's the thing, I don't think that the culprit was aiming for anyone in particular, but rather whoever happened to end up in the right (wrong) place. Hold skewer through crack, wait until you feel resistance and stab wildly to get the job done. Having a particular target in mind only makes it more likely that you get caught.
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Mar 14, 2013 18:20
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